Do you HONESTLY believe that, in the past few years there hasn't been ANY TV show you've enjoyed? Better Call Saul? Andor? House of the Dragon? The Bear? Succession? Severence? Peacemaker? White Lotus? Invincible? The Boys? Cobra Kai? Hunters?
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Hollywood Hit With Writers Strike After Talks With AMPTP Fail; Guild Slams Studios For “Gig Economy” Mentality
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Either people aren't actually watching anything, or are too lazy to go looking for anything that doesn't have the words 'Disney' attached to it.
Pretty sick of hearing constant whinging about everything being 'woke' when it's very apparent that there is some great writing going on out there. You just have to make some fucking effort to find it.
Yes, if this strike only affected the collection of fucktards that are writing the Star Wars and MCU saga, then I'd be more than happy with them getting paid peanuts. But there are plenty of great writers out there being fucked by the likes of Netflix, Disney and Amazon, and they deserve a bigger slice of the pie.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
I watch curse of oak island and bob crane Atari talks videos.
But no I don’t watch any of that shallow shit. Dumbing down the world.
> Hasn't watched anythingI watch curse of oak island and bob crane Atari talks videos.
But no I don’t watch any of that shallow shit. Dumbing down the world.
> Calls it all shallow shit
Huh?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
One interesting facet of this is that if this strike goes on for a long time, like the last one, it's going to force Disney to alter its strategy for the MCU moving forward. At a time when MCU movies are starting to flop, they really need to be building momentum back by introducing characters that people actually want to see, like the X-Men and F4. This strike could severely hamper that momentum, if it prevents pre-production for many months. The same applies to whatever the fuck James Gunn is doing over at DC.
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Queso de Grande
Member
Are those the best shows that have been put out? Because they are all forgettable trash. Better Call Saul is long and boring. Andor? Garbage from a dead franchise. House of the Dragon? See Andor. The Bear? Never heard of it. Succession? Social media loved crap. Severence? Mysterious boring drag. Peacemaker? Too goofy dumb shit. White Lotus? Drivel. Invincible? A less interesting version of a comic. The Boys? Hack show based on a hack book. Cobra Kai? Memberberries the show. Hunters? Never heard of it.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I watch curse of oak island and bob crane Atari talks videos.
But no I don’t watch any of that shallow shit. Dumbing down the world.
So ... What DO you like on TV/streaming?
Because if you watched any of the shows he mentioned, you wouldn't say any of it's shallow. Andor is really good drama!
I was gonna stop here and Nah out but then I'm genuinely curious to know what do you think IS good then?
Queso de Grande
Member
The last good show was season 2 of The Leftovers. Everything since has been time wasters at best.
Toons
Member
No, he shouldn't have to take up chemical engineering. In any correctly functioning modern society there are plenty of outlets for ones creativity and work ability that should be able to sustain them... not one specific pool, and one that takes years of investment before you actually see any money and one that poses ample health risks.
Any time you are complaining about how much you hate a movie or show that has come out, its potentisly because they got someone who wasn't the right fit for rhe job. So it seems to be they aren't so as replaceable as you seem to think. The "real talent" relies on these writers to give them something to work with 90% of the time. Which is why most actors are going to side with the writers.
This portion doesn't even make sense. A writers job is to write. Not to produce, cast, or direct. Every film that ever comes out is a combination of the efforts of many, many people. You are displaying a complete lack of unddrstand of how any of this works. Its the equivalent to me saying that if a drummer wants to be successful in music he also has to be able to sing, direcr music videos, create album art, produce and pay for his own studio time and write all of his songs.... thats not how it works.
Toons
Member
There are no "Disney writers" anyway. Disney HIRES writers, usually from this same guild and everyone else hires from.
This notion some have that Disney has some room full of folks putting out everything is laughable and reflects a complete lack of any real knowledge on the subject. One of the guys who worked on a few episodes of that kenobi show worked on GANGS OF NEW YORK. Shang Chi co writer worked on Zombieland, Godzilla 2014, and more. The infamous Pickle Rick meme is from the *same person* behind the She Hulk show.
Writers are mostly freelancers doing gigs lol. There is no shutting down only Disney writers or anything like that. All you're guaranteeing is you get a bunch of nobodies who will work for pennies instead... and if they actually put out decent product, then they'll be right alongside the strikers once they hit it big.
It doesn't even take effort to find decent TV. I cant go without hearing about succession or invincible. The problem is folks these days want something to complain about, they don't WANT something to enjoy. If you want to act like everything sucks, its easy, just don't watch anything, and simply post about it on the internet a lot. Its a dumbass trend i tell ya.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
It's generally never the writers that are the problem, it's the people in charge. And if the people in charge want a certain type of writing and a certain type of fiction, then they will hire the people who will provide it to them - and they are generally the less talented ones, who will work for less.
This strike needs to reset the balance of power a bit. If the studios are forced to pay a decent going rate, then that will mean the more talented writers are hired, because if you have to pay the money, you may as well get someone who knows what they're doing.
The last thing the likes of Disney want is writers to have any power... because that stops them being able to pay peanuts and get monkeys that will just shit out the kind of asinine garbage we've been seeing in the recent past.
Xenon
Member
The fact that I cann't think of a single show I care about more than Heroes is pretty telling.
All those people who got pushed out of the industry for political beliefs should jump in and scab like motherfuckers!
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Toons
Member
Clearly its not just Disney, given the WGA statement it involves pretty much everyone. In classic fashion it seems studio execs at the top seem to share the sentiment of many here, that writers are a replaceable commodity. Hopefully we get cooler heads who realize it's a mutual benefit to have better folks at better rates working for them.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
There's always been messages in movies and TV. Sometimes overtly. It's just now that some folks don't want certain messages. Some of those messages are good ones and necessary. But that's just my opinion.Hey maybe we'll get less "messages" now in TV... much like big tech getting rid of mostly social media managers
StueyDuck
Member
I think we all know what "the message" is vs good wholesome life messages.
It's fine though, seems like those writers will go the way of the social media manager. I look forward to good tv again.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It seems like the only productions that treat their non-senior, non-show running writers fairly and pay well are the late night and punditry shows. It probably has to do mostly with the nature of those vehicles, in that they live and die by their writers' weekly output, but also because the hosts and producers got their start in the biz writing (and may still contribute to the writing).
But there is no money in writing because it is a largely disposable job with lots of folks elbowing to get in. It also has virtually no risk. The MONEY is in getting the project made, the MONEY is in taking the risks.
Think of the writers you can name and might actually follow from project to project. How many are JUST writers, not showrunners, directors, editors, or even actors. Almost NONE for most folk. They know Kevin Smith, Quentin Tarantino, James Cameron, Damon Lindelof, Shawn Ryan, Tyler Perry, and Shonda Rhimes because of the OTHER things that puts them in front of the project and allows them to translate their words to screen.
You can shake your fist all you want but the reality is most writers are disposable, interchangeable, and replaceable and their pay is commiserate with their worth. The writers actually worth a damn rise to the top or strike out on their own and drag their vision to life through force of will and surprise, if folks like it they get all the monies. Just being a studio writer toiling in the writers room of season 5 of some mid level rated sit-com or drama is the hollywood equivalent of working retail.
RainblowDash
Gold Member
Give AI writing a chance!
This makes no sense. Where are these "talented" writers gonna go to make more money? Write books? Produce their own stuff as independents? If they can get more from doing that THEN THEY SHOULD DO THAT VERY THING!! This narrative that all these quiet geniuses are slaving away butting out sub-par work for sub-par pay but they all have an oscar/emmy level script "just waiting for the right paycheck" is straight lunacy. Hollywood does, and ALWAYS HAS, recognized steller writers and those folks generally do go on to substantial success if they can keep earning it. But most writers....they are grinding out words like the key grip, set dresser, costume assistant, or assistant editor toils at their job for less pay then they probably think they deserve.
Don't like it? GTFO to a dull stable "normie" job or plant your flag and make your own content.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
The problem is never the message. It’s the delivery. Good writers can include a message in a way that doesn’t negatively affect the story. Bad writers can’t.
There are a lot more bad writers about these days. Probably partly because pay for writers is so bad.
See, I think it is more that they GET PAID to write a certain type of story, even if it's against their preference. I'm curious just how "diverse" writers rooms really are, and there are certainly stories from established white male writers about how they are now struggling to get work or only certain narratives are being entertained. So not until the woke mind virus is thoroughly expunged will we see a return to writer meritocracy and authenticity in narrative rather than checklist pandering.
There also seems to be a collapse of content creation coming, which ought to drastically cull the opportunities and tolerance for crap and only the cream will survive. But pivoting to low budget, low barrier to entry stuff like podcasts and streaming platforms off the mainstream will always allow true creatives to find an outlet and get noticed. I have a buddy that couldn't get the roles he wanted, so he decided to just make all of his own stuff and now he is getting awards at film festivals. Of course he is writing, financing, acting, and producing, a perfect example of the hungry artist doing what is necessary to get their art made and noticed rather than a passive wannabe moaning they don't get paid enough on a major network show writing bad jokes for a laugh track.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
There are thousands of writers on strike. Even if you have a pathological hatred of Marvel this affects more than that.
It's completely bizarre seeing people on here support the big studios/networks and not the unions. Is it just because they are writers? Or is Gaf anti-union for the most part?
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I think probably it’s yet another misplaced battle in the culture wars. The usual suspects are all crowing about it on YouTube… despite the fact that all they stuff they like too is being affected. But apparently everything is woke to some people these days, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
That's what it feels like and it's ridiculous. It's not a political issue at all. This is about fair pay in relation to what they do and what they do is make the industry billions of dollars every year. The least that the studios and networks can do is pay them appropriately and treat them better.
It seems like a simple situation being made difficult and hostile for no reason at all.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Everything is turned into politics… especially by YouTubers who need a constant supply of outrage inducing incidents to maintain their subscriber amount and views.
Apparently, it’s great that this strike is happening… and fuck all those writers!
…the same writers you were praising last week when you talked about a tv show or movie you actually liked.
You can tell the people on this forum who consume all of that stuff without any critical thinking whatsoever.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I'm gonna miss The Outer Limits, Parker Lewis Can't Lose, and Herman's Head.
NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
You know what show was good at delivering messages? MASH.
Like the episode where Winchester found out his sister Honoria was engaged to an Italian (AN ITALIAN!?!?!?!), and so he frantically worked to get his sister to call off the engagement, only to find out it was called off by the grooms family because Honoria didn't share the same religion. This, Winchester learned what it felt like to be discriminated against.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Not really. AI is light years away from being able to replace these people.
PSYGN
Member
Disagreed about light years away, but I do think humans will push back and band together just as some do for "organic" food, appreciate things that are "made by humans" for the sake of humanity and can be an easy marketing spin to look less "evil" and more in tune with the people.
Take a factory worker from the 1880s and show them the modern work environment and they will SCREAM FOR JOY, "WE WON WE WON WE WON!!!" because virtually all of the legitimate employment gripes were resolved long ago.
Modern unions just destroy industry. Folk at the bottom looking up love unions because they see just an inch of rise and call it good. Folks at the top hate unions because they see a massive drop and it shuts down the entire biz. Being a studio writer is hardly a hard labor environment, full of physical risks and health consequences, and vital to the success of the country. It's a damn white collar luxury field, go cry me a river. Pay teachers, lab techs, police, even the best boy, WTF he does in those film credits, before writers! What about all the CGI artists grinding away in all that crunch? I think they see the AI a coming and are buckling down to ride it out.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
AI is partly why they are striking:
Screenwriters want to stop AI from taking their jobs. Studios want to see what the tech can do.
Striking film and TV writers are pushing to put strict guardrails around how studios use AI in the scripting process.
www.cbsnews.com
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Ridiculous short sighted take.
"White collar luxury field" you say meanwhile they are asking to be paid more so they can survive and be paid according to their worth. Get out of here lol
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Toons
Member
Its less time investment to just call everything bad
My guy.
Were talking about the writers guild of america.
The dudes striking ARE those talented writers lol. That's the biggest union of writers there is.
These aren't scrubs that are striking. These ARE the heavy hitters. I dont see what other way there is to explain this to you.
You seem to have this notion the folks asking for more pay are nobodies. They arent. They are the backbone of the biggest scripts and screenplays circulating the industry. This is why its such a big deal.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
We are light years away. That's not an opinion. We are not even remotely close to an AI being able to pump out a cohesive and well written story for an episode of a show that follows the story of previous episodes and lore like a room full of actual writers can do. We are even further away from an AI being able to take an existing story and adapt to an appropriate format for a movie or show like a room full of actual writers can do. An AI simply lacks the context and the intuition to accomplish these tasks as needed by studios and networks.
Any studio or network trying to use AI as leverage against them right now is outing themselves as being woefully misinformed and uneducated on what is currently possible or even close to being possible.
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Doom85
Gold Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If writers are worried AI bots will make their job redundant, it goes to show how bad their skills are if they think a computer can craft better TV and movie scripts than them.AI is partly why they are striking:
Screenwriters want to stop AI from taking their jobs. Studios want to see what the tech can do.
Striking film and TV writers are pushing to put strict guardrails around how studios use AI in the scripting process.
Specifically, the union wants its collective bargaining contract to guarantee that:
- AI won't write or rewrite literary material.
- AI won't be used as source material.
- Union-covered material won't be used to train AI.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I'm aware? I'm saying there is a LOT of ground to cover in the medium from where we are now to where we would need to be before AI can do what these people do.
Doom85
Gold Member
Yeah, but that would indicate time before we reach that point. I’m pretty sure technological breakthroughs don’t happen by simply not skipping leg day.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I think it was a nerd joke
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
It's not that they think it can do better. It's that they know Studios and Networks don't care and could possibly try to use it as a cost saving measure instead actually just paying the writers what they deserve.
Also they don't want to spend their days looking at and fixing whatever drivel an AI pumps out. Which is already something happening to visual artists in the industry.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thats the point of efficiencies. Really no different than Ford assembly lines. A business streamlines business as much as possible and use good ol human brain power to do the crafty/subjective/judgmental bits.
If a writer cant beat out an AI bot making shit up from internet algorithms, it shows their writing skills stink.
Its like finance. Every big company will spend shit loads of money on ERP/database systems. And an IT team maintains it. Heck, even small businesses surely have their own small scale programs that do it. When it's all done, we just churn out the data. We dont even know or see where the source material even comes from. And we dont care. As long as it works that small IT team does it.
If this was way back, there would be a team of people doing endless admin and building from scratch shitty spreadsheets. I know because 20 years ago one of my jobs as an analyst was building from scratch on MS Access sales data databases. I'd load in various external data sheets and hoped it all worked. And if something didn't I'd be there all day adjusting the data so it came out right..... (and for those of you who have never used it, it's not pick up and use like MS Word, Powerpoint or Excel. Its way different).
That all went away as companies spend money on programs that handle it all. So the team can focus on meaningful work than being a database builder.
Toons
Member
Youe mistake is assuming execs care about "better". In a capitalistic Industry like Hollywood, better doesn't mean better quality, it means better profits regardless of quality.
If corporations could put out an AI show that is absolute drivel, but saved them enough money to where it maximizes a profit, they would. No question. So for writers, it isn't about the gap in writing quality. Its about the fact that you have to pay a human to written for you and you dont have to pay a machine to.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If thats the case, I dont think the average media watcher cares.
The biggest best selling movies are superheros, animated films, and various Lord of the Rings style epic adventure movies. And Avatar.
None of these have great writing. In fact, most have awful writing. Or the most predictable plot ever. Same goes for tv shows. Even a movie I liked Top Gun Maverick didn't have epic scripts. People seem to care more about CGI, well known actors, big battle scenes and cut and paste animated movie plots (good guy beats the evil warlord and there might be a price/princess part to it). Media is entertainment. They want fun. Professional top end writing does not equate to fun for a lot of people.
It's like what do people want? McDonalds, 5 guys, or a pub burger? The best one is probably the pub burger, but some people prefer Big Macs.
The movies that seem t have the best scripts, critics choice, and awards are movies that seem to make hardly any money. So it shows the average consumer would rather watch Captain America tagteamed with Tranformers battle against Magneto and Cobra.
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Gamerfan81
Member
I know what you mean. I'm going to miss Mr. Belvedere, Married with Children, Get a Life, A Different World.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Parker Lewis and MWC are awesome. I never watched the others.
But getting back to writers striking and quality of script. Ive watched a lot of MWC reruns lately. The actual scripts arent even that great. It's the awesome acting from the cast (especially Ed Oneill) which makes those lines funny.
Next time you watch a comedy show, just think of the lines said. Most of the time it's not even that clever. But the actor makes it shine (Al Bundy mannerisms). For example, picture yourself or your brother saying those same lines. Probably not funny at all.
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If corporations can profit from AI drivel then that means enough people enjoyed the drivel to generate a profit. Why act like the corporations are bad when viewers will hate watch terrible shows and shit reality TV so long as its on?
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