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[benny_a]

99% of people who have claimed PS4 multiplatform games would be better have also mentioned there would be little to no difference at launch. I even went so far as to say certain games may even look better on Xbox One.

I'm not one of those. I think there will be a difference on day 1. Enough for DF to determine the better version if you ignore factors outside of how well it runs and looks like controller/ecosystem/friends preference and whether or not you can get one for cheaper, Vanilla on one vs. vanilla on the other.

Bring it on!

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Be gentle on him, he is going to find this a tough generation.

Why?

 

[Chobel]

This is the first time I've stepped into this thread, and now I'm going to do this

Good, we don't need any more Homers in here.

 

[nib95]

I'm not one of those. I think there will be a difference on day 1. Enough for DF to determine the better version if you ignore factors outside how well it runs and looks like controller/ecosystem/friends preference and whether or not you can get one for cheaper,

Bring it on!

Well, reports suggest that but I'd be surprised. We shall see.

My personal opinion is that already in first party efforts we're starting to see differences, but that matters little since these launch titles will all easily be graphically ousted a year or two in.

 

[Curufinwe]

LOL. I can feel your rage.

PC's and Xbox One will inevitably share the same code and mostly likely very similar rendering engines due to them both using DirectX. That has to make porting games from a PC to Xbox One a lot easier then porting a PC game to PS4.

I can see if you are against a deadline. The PS4 port could suffer.

I feel your desperation.

If you're against a deadline then the Xbone port will suffer from the significantly less powerful GPU and the limited bandwidth. A more powerful, less complicated system is the best friend of programmers with limited time.

 

[cyberheater]

I'm not one of those. I think there will be a difference on day 1. Enough for DF to determine the better version if you ignore factors outside of how well it runs and looks like controller/ecosystem/friends preference and whether or not you can get one for cheaper, Vanilla on one vs. vanilla on the other.

Bring it on!

If the PS4 is genuinely much more powerful then Xbox One as a lot of posters in this thread think so. The difference should be fairly visible from day one. And then get larger as the generation moves on.

If the differences are negligible or none or even if some games come out better on Xbox One then the power differences between the two consoles are a lot smaller then a lot of folks on this board thought and they will be proved wrong about the power difference and it's crow eating time.

 

[benny_a]

If the PS4 is genuinely much more powerful then Xbox One as a lot of posters in this thread think so. The difference should be fairly visible from day one. And then get larger as the generation moves on.

I don't know why we have to go back to being vague and say "much more powerful."
There are so many posters in this thread that have been quite specific in what they mean. Why bring it back to vagueness after that already happened?

If the differences are negligible or none or even if some games come out better on Xbox One then the power differences between the two consoles are a lot smaller then a lot of folks on this board thought and they will be proved wrong about the power difference and it's crow eating time.

What is negligible to you is different than what is negligible to me. I said above what I expect on day 1. I agree that the discrepancy between the two will widen as the generation goes along due to the superior GPGPU capabilities on the PS4.

And yes, also I agree that if the Xbone bests the PS4 in face-offs, then I will eat crow. As long as you do the same when that doesn't occur.

 

[FeiRR]

LOL. I can feel your rage.

PC's and Xbox One will inevitably share the same code and mostly likely very similar rendering engines due to them both using DirectX. That has to make porting games from a PC to Xbox One a lot easier then porting a PC game to PS4.

I can see if you are against a deadline. The PS4 port could suffer.

Read here, then think where ESRAM and Move Engines are in PCs. Then think again.

 

[elhav]

99% of people who have claimed PS4 multiplatform games would be better have also mentioned there would be little to no difference at launch. I even went so far as to say certain games may even look better on Xbox One.

If you actually read people's posts, most are saying you won't notice differences till a tear or two in, but that differences will get larger as time passes. So I have no idea why people think 22nd November will be indicative of anything. Launches hardly ever are. All we know is that multiplatform games appear to be well behind first party efforts, and why wouldn't they, when they have less insight in to the hardware and have other platforms to worry about.

It will take time for multiplatform devs to get to grips with the new hardware and tools.

Well, there are quite a bunch of big multiplats coming out for both consoles at launch: Assassin's creed, fifa, cod, battlefield.

These are perfect games to compare performance and graphics, no?

 

[cyberheater]

And yes, also I agree that if the Xbone bests the PS4 in face-offs, then I will eat crow. As long as you do the same when that doesn't occur.

My position has alway been that the real world power differences between the Xbox One and PS4 is a lot smaller most folks on here think they are.
If PS4 multiplats come out of the game with a significant performance advantage. I will eat crow.

And as a reminder. My next gen console will be a PS4. It's going to be a one console future for me next gen.

 

[benny_a]

My position has alway been that the real world power differences between the Xbox One and PS4 is a lot smaller most folks on here think they are.
If PS4 multiplats come out of the game with a significant performance advantage. I will eat crow.

I find it hard to argue for what a group of people think, because it isn't precise and opens oneself and other up for interpretation and a battle of semantics.

I've made a falsifiable statement for the games at launch. With that it's easy to agree or disagree and then go into the parts that one disagrees with.

I made a similar falsifiable statement before the Xbone was unveiled and how powerful it will be. I was hoping for more and got disappointed. There were others that were very vague but negative regarding my prediction but are now seemingly happy with the specs. To me that doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. I think vagueness has something to do with it.

 

[cyberheater]

I find it hard to argue for what a group of people think, because it isn't precise and opens oneself and other up for interpretation and a battle of semantics.

I've made a falsifiable statement for the games at launch. With that it's easy to agree or disagree and then go into the parts that one disagrees with.

I made a similar falsifiable statement before the Xbone was unveiled and how powerful it will be. I was hoping for more and got disappointed. There were others that were very vague but negative regarding my prediction but are now seemingly happy with the specs. To me that doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. I think vagueness has something to do with it.

I understand your position. And was thinking last night of developing a strict set of criteria that removed subjectiveness to characterise the performance delta between both systems but I wondered how useful it would have been to this thread.

 

[3rdamention]

One of the most ignorant posts I've seen in a while...

IGnore him. He has said that after already being proved completely wrong, then said it again. Then he says his PC is more Powerful than both consoles, and closes with how the Xbox One is 30 to 40 percent MORE powerful than the PS4 because of dedicated servers, cloud power, and the cpu bump. Over and over.

 

[benny_a]

I understand your position. And was thinking last night of developing a strict set of criteria that removed subjectiveness to characterise the performance delta between both systems but I wondered how useful it would have been to this thread.

I'm just deferring to Digital Foundry even though I've lost a lot of respect for them over the last few months because of some questionable articles.

In the end it means I'm at the mercy of their interpretation, but they have to argue their points by presenting evidence or the comments section will reflect if their conclusion isn't well supported.

I think that's pretty alright for these kind of threads which don't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Jedi2016]

Even last gen, the games that had "big" differences between versions still looked more or less okay, and the problems with the "lesser" version could usually only be seen in side-by-side comparisons. Case in point: I played GTAIV on PS3, and it looked fine to me, even though I know it was significantly hampered compared to the X360 version.

But the problem last-gen wasn't with power so much as architecture. The two systems were so different from one another that you had to program for the lowest common denominator, which was pretty damned low, and it showed when you compared pretty much any muliplat to any of the exclusives for either system.

I think there's the *potential* for disparity between versions, probably on the side of the PS4, being more powerful on paper, and the architectures being so similar. But I think the differences will be very small, probably only in things that Digital Foundry can sniff out. Slightly better AA solution on this side, slightly less frame-tearing on that side, things like that. On the whole, I'd bet the average gamer wouldn't be able to tell them apart, even in side-by-side comparisons.

Like before, I think we might see more differences in exclusive titles, but those are always tricky to compare because of the different art styles between games, it's so subjective as to which one "looks better".

 

[PTG]

I expect that the differences in multiplatform (launch) games will be noticeable enough for DigitalFoundry to pick a clear winner(PS4). Not saying how big the difference will be, just saying that it will be very clear to DF and most of the posters on NeoGAF which multiplatform game looks/runs better. As the gen goes on, the gap between multiplatform games will widen further.

 

[Finalizer]

I understand your position. And was thinking last night of developing a strict set of criteria that removed subjectiveness to characterise the performance delta between both systems but I wondered how useful it would have been to this thread.

If you want to honestly enter some sort of "crow-eating competition" as to whether or not there's a "significant" graphical difference in multiplats between PS4 & the 'Bone, you're gonna have to make some sort of outline. Otherwise, you won't even be able to argue "moving goalposts" come November since they won't have even been planted to begin with.

I'd go with something straightforward:

-If both versions look absolutely identical from a graphical standpoint (i.e. a screenshot of the exact same moment in both versions look entirely indistinguishable from one-another), then the one with the highest average framerate in some sort of demo wins (say, an in-engine cutscene for example)
-If there's resolution differences, AA differences, or differences in other IQ variables, whichever one has the higher values wins. [You might have to establish some pecking order for AA preference while you're at it, lol]
-If there's differences beyond that, as in quality of assets or visual effects, the whole discussion gets a lot more specific and nuanced for that scenario, and really starts to come down to preferences, where even a seemingly ridiculous assertion that "x looks better than y" becomes defensible on the grounds of pure subjectivity. (e.g. "I think PS1 games look better than PS2 games because fuck you, it's my opinion")

Just throwing mental vomit out there for whatever it's worth.

 

[cyberheater]

If you want to honestly enter some sort of "crow-eating competition" as to whether or not there's a "significant" graphical difference in multiplats between PS4 & the 'Bone, you're gonna have to make some sort of outline. Otherwise, you won't even be able to argue "moving goalposts" come November since they won't have even been planted to begin with.

I'd go with something straightforward:

-If both versions look absolutely identical from a graphical standpoint (i.e. a screenshot of the exact same moment in both versions look entirely indistinguishable from one-another), then the one with the highest average framerate in some sort of demo wins (say, an in-engine cutscene for example)
-If there's resolution differences, AA differences, or differences in other IQ variables, whichever one has the higher values wins. [You might have to establish some pecking order for AA preference while you're at it, lol]
-If there's differences beyond that, as in quality of assets or visual effects, the whole discussion gets a lot more specific and nuanced for that scenario, and really starts to come down to preferences, where even a seemingly ridiculous assertion that "x looks better than y" becomes defensible on the grounds of pure subjectivity. (e.g. "I think PS1 games look better than PS2 games because fuck you, it's my opinion")

Just throwing mental vomit out there for whatever it's worth.

I like those ideas. As you say. There are performance criteria you can easily measure. Resolution and frame rate. If developer cull effects or assets to maintain the previous two criteria then it gets a bit more nebulous.

 

[Mastperf]

Not necessarily.
I would think if PC is the lead platform. Porting code to Xbox One would be simpler and more straightforward as both platforms share a version of DirectX.
The PS4 port could suffer as a result.

I would say that the fact that we have seen most multi-plats shown on PS4 or PC might indicate it isn't that simple.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Good, we don't need any more Homers in here.

Homerphobe!

 

[Durante]

Hyperbolic much? In no way is the Xbox One esoteric. A dev could treat it exactly like a PC if they wanted to.

That's not really true. Unless they want it to perform like a PC with a GPU with 60 GB/s memory BW. I wouldn't call it particularly esoteric compared to previous console designs, but it's still a bit more unusual than PS4.

 

[ekim]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

 

[DC R1D3R]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

Some would call that sacrilege, me, common sense.

 

[omonimo]

If the PS4 is genuinely much more powerful then Xbox One as a lot of posters in this thread think so. The difference should be fairly visible from day one. And then get larger as the generation moves on.

If the differences are negligible or none or even if some games come out better on Xbox One then the power differences between the two consoles are a lot smaller then a lot of folks on this board thought and they will be proved wrong about the power difference and it's crow eating time.

Sorry, I missed the point. Why at launch ps4 game should show great differences when developers coming from the misery of the 512 MB of RAM? What they have for now could be more than suffice. The problems should appear later, when developers will require more.
In any case, Dead Rising 3 vs Killzone start to show evident difference to me, technically.

 

[omonimo]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

If for you sub 1080p & stutter 30 fps are a big deal, of course.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Sorry, I missed the point. Why at launch ps4 game should show great differences when developers coming from the misery of the 512 MB of RAM? What they have for now could be more than suffice. The problems should appear later, when developers will require more.
In any case, Dead Rising 3 vs Killzone start to show evident difference to me, technically.

Great example. One is an open sandbox that can have hundreds of characters onscreen at once with no load times while the other is a fps that is likely going to have corridor gameplay like most shooters and multiplayer being scaled back in map size and limited player count. This is why comparing the same games is easier.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

I doubt it. I expect every multiplatform title to run better on PS4. Does this mean Xbox won't have good-looking games or exclusives? No. But I really can't think of a scenario where the same game would run better on the Xbox One. PS4 has an extremely similar architecture but is simply more powerful.

Some would call that sacrilege, me, common sense.

Doesn't surprise me that you would call it that way. I don't see how such a statement can be "common sense" at all when we have such a massive spec difference.

 

[omonimo]

Great example. One is an open sandbox that can have hundreds of characters onscreen at once with no load times while the other is a fps that is likely going to have corridor gameplay like most shooters and multiplayer being scaled back in map size and limited player count. This is why comparing the same games is easier.

Ok, now explain me 720p 60 fps of Killer Istinct then, an 'humble' beat em up who require 720p to run at 60 fps. & we are talking of a first party eh. Or, I could use the same Ryse multiplayer vs Killzone, how another example.

 

[benny_a]

Ok, now explain me 720p 60 fps of Killer Istinct then, an 'humble' beat em up who require 720p to run at 60 fps. & we are talking of a first party eh.

Do you have a pet theory why it's 720p? Seems arbitrary to ask why that specific game is 720p when others are confirmed to be 1080p.

Great example. One is an open sandbox that can have hundreds of characters onscreen at once with no load times while the other is a fps that is likely going to have corridor gameplay like most shooters and multiplayer being scaled back in map size and limited player count. This is why comparing the same games is easier.

While I'm sure there are corridors in KZ:SF, they demoed a pretty wide open forest area at E3 where you can do objectives in any order you want.

 

[omonimo]

Do you have a pet theory why it's 720p? Seems arbitrary to ask why that specific game is 720p when others are confirmed to be 1080p.

Pet theory? There was a whole topic some day ago.

 

[Caffeine]

isnt the console thats the weakest amongst the 2 competators the lowest common denominator and games are made for that and then just ported to the other console.

i expect them to look 95% similar through out this generation because third parts are cheap bastards and wont want to spend more to make the game look better on another platform. on occasion you might have longer draw distances, level of detail on one version than another or you might even have different native resolutions but they should look identical.

 

[Bundy]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

Makes no sense.
Only if a developer is forcing a game to run worse on the PS4.
Which wouldn't make any sense.

 

[benny_a]

Only if a developer is forcing a game to run worse on the PS4.
Which wouldn't make any sense.

Remember how a shit ton of games were going to be exclusive to Xbox One in May according to the Xbox One anticipation threads?

Microsoft decided they don't need it, they just pay 20% of the already agreed upon exclusive price to make the PS4 version perform worse.

 

[Bundy]

Remember how a shit ton of games were going to be exclusive to Xbox One in May according to the Xbox One anticipation threads?

Microsoft decided they don't need it, they just pay 20% of the already agreed upon exclusive price to make the PS4 version perform worse.

lol
That would be hilarious!
(and a dick move)

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Ok, now explain me 720p 60 fps of Killer Istinct then, an 'humble' beat em up who require 720p to run at 60 fps. & we are talking of a first party eh. Or, I could use the same Ryse multiplayer vs Killzone, how another example.

Could be many reasons. One is developer size, budget, time constraints. There's a whole whack of reason why games could be 1080p @30fps or 1080p @60fps or 720p @30fps or 720p @60fps. The launch is showing games up to 1080p and 60fps but that is also from one of Microsoft's biggest developers who probably have access to lots of resources and early builds.

My point is your were trying to compare two totally different experiences by two different teams of developers. Guerilla is likely getting the earliest build of the hardware with an almost unlimited amount of resources at their expense. The game is also apparently running in 1080p @30fps and 1080p @60fps depending on the multiplayer and single player.

It's like comparing Uncharted 3 or Gears of War 3 to Skyrim. One wouldn't expect Skyrim on consoles to look as good as Uncharted on the PS3 or Gears of War 3 on the XBOX 360.

That's why multiplatform games will often showcase how each system measures up to one another. The games will get better over time on both systems as they learn more about the hardware. That's always the case, but to use exclusives can be rather difficult as I explained earlier.

 

[TheKayle]

Our first goal post.
Usually any game in both consoles will be locked to 30/60 fps. What we measure is the percentage of that game being 30/60 fps with no dip in fps. ex: PS4 is 30fps 90% of the time, X1 85% (or 95%) of the time in this case we declare PS4 winner (or X1 winner).

So Thekayle what do you suggest the as difference of percentage to declare a winner?

Also don't forget the difference in visuals like resolution and number of object in the scene.

Again Thekayle, how much the difference in visuals there must be in order to declare a winner?

i would opt more than 15% of frame rate drop difference
5% is just ...not percetible to declare a winner....at least not in one game...but i could agree if in 8 games on 10 theres the 5% yes..would be anyway a technical win...

but still with a 5% dont think is a clear win and at the end of the day exclusives will push ppl to buy things

 

[omonimo]

Could be many reasons. One is developer size, budget, time constraints. There's a whole whack of reason why games could be 1080p @30fps or 1080p @60fps or 720p @30fps or 720p @60fps. The launch is showing games up to 1080p and 60fps but that is also from one of Microsoft's biggest developers who probably have access to lots of resources and early builds.

My point is your were trying to compare two totally different experiences by two different teams of developers. Guerilla is likely getting the earliest build of the hardware with an almost unlimited amount of resources at their expense. The game is also apparently running in 1080p @30fps and 1080p @60fps depending on the multiplayer and single player.

It's like comparing Uncharted 3 or Gears of War 3 to Skyrim. One wouldn't expect Skyrim on consoles to look as good as Uncharted on the PS3 or Gears of War 3 on the XBOX 360.

That's why multiplatform games will often showcase how each system measures up to one another. The games will get better over time on both systems as they learn more about the hardware. That's always the case, but to use exclusives can be rather difficult as I explained earlier.

Ok forget for a second my example. Still tech wise some xbone launch games start to show weakness compared to ps4; do you think Ryse will run at native 1080?Have you in mind the terrible multiplayer? I don't think they are a coincidence.

 

[cyberheater]

Makes no sense..

It makes sense if the real world power differential between both machines isn't as large as folks on here think it might be. Which is the point of his bet.

 

[mrklaw]

Let's agree on the premise: Multiplatform titles will be noticeably superior on the PS4. or at least noticeable to us. By noticable to us, we mean resolution and framerate in particular.

Now go:

Spoiler

SAVED

I think by 'noticable' you should allow any measurement that would cause a PS3/360 digital foundry face-off thread to declare one version 'clearly a travesty'. That can vary to little thing like shadow detail or texture filtering, AA method, or screen tearing. I don't think it is reasonable to use such simplistic measures as framerate and resolution - it is completely feasible that both consoles will have a game running at the same res/framerate, but with noticable differences in details.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Ok forget for a second my example. Still tech wise some xbone launch games start to show weakness compared to ps4; do you think Ryse will run at native 1080?Have you in mind the terrible multiplayer? I don't think they are a coincidence.

If they cannot pin down 60fps for Drive Club will that also show the weakness of the PS4? I have no doubt the PS4 is more powerful just by going off of specs. How that actually translates in real gameplay experiences may be a different matter. If the numbers are showing a benefit to the PS4 by 40% in some areas will that really mean the games will perform and look 40% better? Who knows but we will soon find out.

Using Ryse is once again not really proving anything. The game could have been 80% made for the XBOX 360 and changed over late in development to the XBOX One. To me it looks rushed and needing more testing while they continue to hear feedback about QTE.

 

[DC R1D3R]

Doesn't surprise me that you would call it that way. I don't see how such a statement can be "common sense" at all when we have such a massive spec difference.

Specs....Bah!

Kuturagi promised that my entire kitchen would be running Cell technology by now. Now it's Cerny's turn to prophesies and he'll be delivering Knack.

SMDH

 

[Chobel]

I think by 'noticable' you should allow any measurement that would cause a PS3/360 digital foundry face-off thread to declare one version 'clearly a travesty'. That can vary to little thing like shadow detail or texture filtering, AA method, or screen tearing. I don't think it is reasonable to use such simplistic measures as framerate and resolution - it is completely feasible that both consoles will have a game running at the same res/framerate, but with noticable differences in details.

Like I said in an other comment, I welcome any suggestions to measure the difference between the games running on both console, especially if we can assign score to each difference.

For now, like I said in earlier comment, I'm doing the same thing as bunny_a, I'll wait for digital foundry comparisons If there's no noticeable difference or Xbox one version is better then I'll eat crow.

 

[3rdamention]

We aren't going to know the difference till we get to see a multiplat game on both systems, period.



Trying to compare 1st Party Exclusives is difficult, they are all pretty different games. Even trying to compare DriveClub to Forza is difficult because they are aren't really that similar other than being racers (style, lighting, arcade vs. sim, network features).




You know these sites, and members of GAF, will be dissecting the multiplats closer to and during launch. We will have to wait till then.

 

[Finalizer]

You know these sites, and members of GAF, will be dissecting the multiplats closer to and during launch. We will have to wait till then.

For sure, but right now it's down to drawing battle lines. Not really much else to do 'til those comparisons come in unless some megatons get dropped from nowhere for folks to make 100+ page threads over.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

My crow eating bet :
Some games look/perform better on X1, some on PS4.

You should provide a time frame for when this will happen as well.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Those first Digital Foundry face offs are going to be chaos here.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Those first Digital Foundry face offs are going to be chaos here.

It's going to be crazy no matter the verdict. If the difference is big, there will be cries that the XBO architecture needs time to master since it's more difficult... and if the difference isn't significant there will be cries from the opposing party on how developers are lazy or Digital Foundry is biased.

It's going to be a Fallout!

 

[alan666]

The PS4 is more powerful than the X1, but that doesn't mean it will have the better looking games, they should do though.

I think some will be better on the X1 & some will be better on the PS4 just like with the PS3/X360 games, some developers will favour the PS4 over the X1 & viceversa & the one they favour will have the slightly better version.

 

[LittleJohnny]

99% of people who have claimed PS4 multiplatform games would be better have also mentioned there would be little to no difference at launch. I even went so far as to say certain games may even look better on Xbox One.

Hmm, doesn't make much sense really....


Unoptimized games will run better on the system with more raw horsepower. Games will run better by brute force.

PCs will be the lead platform and what we should expect the game to look like (Original quality developers intended) while the consoles will try to replicate this quality as best as they can... Are you suggesting Xbox One is more capable of replicating the PC then PS4 despite the PS4 having more horsepower and being easier to program... or are you just setting up a backdoor to run out in case you're wrong about the power difference?

 

[clem84]

We're not talking about exclusives which are built from the ground up to take advantage of the console power, we're talking about multiplats. There will likely be little or no difference between the two games. However as far as how each game will perform, it will likely be the same scenario that we saw with 360 and PS3, one will perform better (better framerate, better AA, etc...). At this point in time I'd say PS4 will most likely perform better but really who knows?