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[ThanksVision]

FYI, you can transfer $458 from your checking account to your savings account each month. When January 1, 20XX hits you can fully fund your IRA. This is what I do and what's you're in the habit of it, you won't miss the money.

This is my plan, I'd like to have $11,000 saved by January 1, 2019 so that I can fully fund both 2018 and 2019. From there, I will start saving $458 per month like you indicate. Just gotta start the rollover process from Vanguard to Fidelity, hopefully that won't be too much of a headache

 

[demosthenes]

This is my plan, I'd like to have $11,000 saved by January 1, 2019 so that I can fully fund both 2018 and 2019. From there, I will start saving $458 per month like you indicate. Just gotta start the rollover process from Vanguard to Fidelity, hopefully that won't be too much of a headache

You'll be able to fund 2018 way before that, why wouldn't you?

 

[ZackieChan]

You'll be able to fund 2018 way before that, why wouldn't you?

Yeah, wouldn't they be missing out on dollar cost averaging and any potential gains by holding back the investment for so long?

 

[ThanksVision]

Apologies, I wasn't clear. The $11,000 goal is merely the rate at which I'll be saving. As soon as I hit $5500, it will fund 2018

 

[Walter White Walker]

Apologies, I wasn't clear. The $11,000 goal is merely the rate at which I'll be saving. As soon as I hit $5500, it will fund 2018

If it were me I'd stick in what I have saved up in early January 2018. From there keep adding until you get to the $5500 limit.

 

[ZackieChan]

I move 1/12 of my annual Roth contribution to Schwab every month, then it automatically splits it up into my 4 funds. Why wait all year? I'm sure there's a reason, just curious.

I do hold onto my 401(k) funds, though. Maybe I should dole them out quarterly when I pay my estimated taxes, though.

 

[AndyD]

This is my plan, I'd like to have $11,000 saved by January 1, 2019 so that I can fully fund both 2018 and 2019. From there, I will start saving $458 per month like you indicate. Just gotta start the rollover process from Vanguard to Fidelity, hopefully that won't be too much of a headache

Out of curiosity, why are you rolling over from one to the other? I have TD accounts and am thinking of going to Vanguard?

 

[demosthenes]

I move 1/12 of my annual Roth contribution to Schwab every month, then it automatically splits it up into my 4 funds. Why wait all year? I'm sure there's a reason, just curious.

I do hold onto my 401(k) funds, though. Maybe I should dole them out quarterly when I pay my estimated taxes, though.

I save all year and fund on 1/1/XX.

 

[tokkun]

I save all year and fund on 1/1/XX.

Same here. Upfront lump sum investing has a higher expected return based on historical data than dollar cost averaging, so that's what I do. DCA is fine if it helps you get over the psychological hurdles, though.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I start saving in the back half of the year after my 401K is maxed in preparation for 1/1, but then I end up getting overeager and invest part of it in my taxable account before the new year and don't top off my Roth until February or March.

 

[emag]

Same here. Upfront lump sum investing has a higher expected return based on historical data than dollar cost averaging, so that's what I do. DCA is fine if it helps you get over the psychological hurdles, though.

Is that true? The only studies I've seen compare lump sum on the first day X to DCA from the first day X onward, not DCA from day X through day X+364 to lump sum on day 365, per the save all year and invest Jan 1 strategy disclosed above.

 

[ZackieChan]

Same here. Upfront lump sum investing has a higher expected return based on historical data than dollar cost averaging, so that's what I do. DCA is fine if it helps you get over the psychological hurdles, though.

Interesting. Is there a difference between, say, 1/1/xx and 4/15/xx, getting it in on tax day cutoff?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Interesting. Is there a difference between, say, 1/1/xx and 4/15/xx, getting it in on tax day cutoff?

The difference is that you're missing 3.5 months of growth. If the historical direction of the market is up, you want to be in as early as possible. This won't turn out to be true every year, naturally, but it's true for more years than it isn't, and the results accumulate.

Edit: I did my own number crunching a few years ago, available here.

 

[afroguy10]

I'm doing what I can to save for my old age at the moment as well as putting money aside for a mortgage.

I'm 27 and I put around 10% into my pension every month through my employer and they match it up to 6% so 16% of my annual wage every year isn't too bad.

I also put £100 a month into a stocks and shares ISA I set up a couple of years ago. I set it up in a riskier, adventurous portfolio and I've seen some nice growth on that but I've not touched the money at all and don't plan too for the time being.

Aside from those two I'm putting about £650/700 a month into my savings for my own place, hoping to start looking at places and mortgages sometime within the next 6 months.

I've been back living at my parents since October last year and I pay £100 to them in digs (parental rent) every month. This is after living in a flat for a couple of years so saving has been a lot easier since I moved out.

 

[ZackieChan]

The difference is that you're missing 3.5 months of growth. If the historical direction of the market is up, you want to be in as early as possible. This won't turn out to be true every year, naturally, but it's true for more years than it isn't, and the results accumulate.

Edit: I did my own number crunching a few years ago, available here.

Wow, I'll have to make a change, then. Thanks for this!

 

[tokkun]

Is that true? The only studies I've seen compare lump sum on the first day X to DCA from the first day X onward, not DCA from day X through day X+364 to lump sum on day 365, per the save all year and invest Jan 1 strategy disclosed above.

I meant the first day. That's why I said "upfront" lump sum investing. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Lump sum investing on day X + 364 would almost certainly be worse than DCA, since the advantage is entirely derived from the fact that the market trends upward.

Interesting. Is there a difference between, say, 1/1/xx and 4/15/xx, getting it in on tax day cutoff?

I meant 1/1/xx for tax year xx. So the cutoff would be 4/15/(xx + 1). But the basic principle is the same either way - the earlier you invest your money, the higher your expected return. So invest it as early as possible.

 

[Oust]

My mom recently sold her first house and got a check for $560k. She has $400k principal balance remaining on her current house. My advice was pay it off so she doesn't have to make mortgage payments and then decide what to do with rest of the money. Was it a sound advice?

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[Morts]

So my Roth IRA is half Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 and half Vanguard Total Stock Market. If I put the rest of my 2017 contribution into Total Stock Market I could probably swap it for the Admiral Shares fund. Should I do that or do I need to diversify by adding a different fund?

 

[demosthenes]

So my Roth IRA is half Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 and half Vanguard Total Stock Market. If I put the rest of my 2017 contribution into Total Stock Market I could probably swap it for the Admiral Shares fund. Should I do that or do I need to diversify by adding a different fund?

The total stock market is already diversified by definition. I would get to admiral. If you want a different fund after start a new fund with your next ira.

 

[Morts]

The total stock market is already diversified by definition. I would get to admiral. If you want a different fund after start a new fund with your next ira.

That's what I thought. Thank you.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

My mom recently sold her first house and got a check for $560k. She has $400k principal balance remaining on her current house. My advice was pay it off so she doesn't have to make mortgage payments and then decide what to do with rest of the money. Was it a sound advice?

It's less of a bad idea the older she is.

 

[demosthenes]

My mom recently sold her first house and got a check for $560k. She has $400k principal balance remaining on her current house. My advice was pay it off so she doesn't have to make mortgage payments and then decide what to do with rest of the money. Was it a sound advice?

How old is she, what's her retirement situation?

 

[Oust]

How old is she, what's her retirement situation?

She's 60 and owns a land in South Korea which she plans to sell. I guess that's her retirement plan.

 

[SecretMoblin]

So my Roth IRA is half Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 and half Vanguard Total Stock Market. If I put the rest of my 2017 contribution into Total Stock Market I could probably swap it for the Admiral Shares fund. Should I do that or do I need to diversify by adding a different fund?

I would agree with going for Admiral Shares, but are you dead set on having both in your portfolio? VTIVX is roughly 55% invested in Total Stock Market anyway, so the two funds are largely tracking one another and you're effectively paying a (small) fee to hold the same fund twice:

 

[Morts]

I would agree with going for Admiral Shares, but are you dead set on having both in your portfolio? VTIVX is roughly 55% invested in Total Stock Market anyway, so the two funds are largely tracking one another and you're effectively paying a (small) fee to hold the same fund twice:

Not dead set at all, I guess I just assumed Target Retirement was safer since its supposed to get more conservative over time, I think? If I were to replace one though I'm not sure what other fund to get.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Not dead set at all, I guess I just assumed Target Retirement was safer since its supposed to get more conservative over time, I think? If I were to replace one though I'm not sure what other fund to get.

Your approach is just tilting your otherwised "balanced" portfolio towards being more aggressive and more domestic.

Whereas a target fund with Vanguard for 2045 might have

54% Domestic stock
36% International stock
10% bonds

Your approach is

77% Domestic stock
18% International stock
5% bonds

Personally, I'd be fine with those numbers! (And I actually wouldn't hold bonds.) But if you're trying to be hands off and prudent while trusting the low cost opinion of others, then maybe you want to more religiously follow the target.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Your approach is just tilting your otherwised "balanced" portfolio towards being more aggressive and more domestic.

Whereas a target fund with Vanguard for 2045 might have

54% Domestic stock
36% International stock
10% bonds

Your approach is

77% Domestic stock
18% International stock
5% bonds

Personally, I'd be fine with those numbers! (And I actually wouldn't hold bonds.) But if you're trying to be hands off and prudent while trusting the low cost opinion of others, then maybe you want to more religiously follow the target.

Also, if you want the hands-off benefits of a target fund, but a richer mix of stocks, look at how the funds will adjust over time and buy one with a retirement date further out. For example, buy the 2055 retirement date fund if you plan to retire in 2045, since it will dial back stocks and into bonds later than the 2045 fund. And you can still be hands-off with it.

Basically just find the target date fund that shifts the holdings over time in a way that is most closely in line with your preference for your retirement schedule. It kinda defeats the purpose of them, but if wanted to tilt the composition, that's one easy way to do it. The other is to do what he has not and hold the other fund.

 

[AndyD]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

Here's my current 401k's distribution but I can change it at will to one of the Vanguard target funds or a reasonable combo from what they offer.
https://imgur.com/KOiQb7O

Can't tell if this is a good mix or if I am not doing as well as I could.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

Here's my current 401k's distribution but I can change it at will to one of the Vanguard target funds or a reasonable combo from what they offer.
https://imgur.com/KOiQb7O

Can't tell if this is a good mix or if I am not doing as well as I could.

Way too complicated. I like that you have access to Vanguard large cap and bond funds. Some of those others might fill in the gaps, others are redundant, and you could work on getting the right allocations (assuming you don't just jump into a target fund).

Do you have access to Vanguard's extended market (read: small + mid cap) or international funds? If not, look into the other funds you have, which ones are index and low expense (hopefully), and consolidate your holdings.

If you were to mimic a target fund, and assuming it's far off into the future, you would have something like 54% domestic stock, 36% international, and 10% bonds. That 54% domestic would be split something like 40% large cap (S&P 500, or the institutional fund) and 14% small/mid. So if you could build something like that with low cost funds that might be available to you, then you would have an approximation of the 2055 target fund. (You might ask why not hold the target fund. If you like this allocation, then why not, indeed.)

You would also be free to deviate and build your own ratios. Vanguard is heavier on international than other target fund providers, for example. I believe Fidelity is closer to 30% of stock holdings being international instead of Vanguard's 40% (with 40% of 90% being the 36% that you see above).

 

[Piecake]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge.

Here's my current 401k's distribution but I can change it at will to one of the Vanguard target funds or a reasonable combo from what they offer.
https://imgur.com/KOiQb7O

Can't tell if this is a good mix or if I am not doing as well as I could.

You should really think about simplifying that

I really can't tell because you don't provide expense ratios, but it looks like the only two index funds with low expense ratios are the two vanguard funds.

I would either do the following:

• Invest all of your money in the vanguard institution index and get exposure to international in your IRA (buy the bond index fund if bonds are your thing)
• or Just buy the Vanguard target date fund

 

[AndyD]

I figured it was overly complicated and essentially trying to replicate a target fund. I didn't pick it by the way, but I can change. I'll look into what is available.

Sounds like going for the target date on this makes the most sense. Maybe target date on my Roth, then if I want to "play" do it with a limited amount in a regular investment account.

 

[Piecake]

I figured it was overly complicated and essentially trying to replicate a target fund. I didn't pick it by the way, but I can change. I'll look into what is available.

Sounds like going for the target date on this makes the most sense. Maybe target date on my Roth, then if I want to "play" do it with a limited amount in a regular investment account.

The expense ratio is far far far more important than diversity when you are already investing in an SP 500 Index Fund

I mean, you could get by and be fine with just investing in that SP 500 fund. It wouldn't be ideal, but a lot better than paying a bunch of fund managers for the privilege of making shitty choices on your behalf.

 

[phaze]

Not quite sure if it's the right thread but was wondering if there are some opinions or even consensus on p2p lending ? After years of letting my savings waste away on a 0,5 % savings account, I decided to finally do something with them. Most will probably go to some ETF funds which I finally found about and found a way to invest in from my country (where there's almost none) but I thought of directing some small part into something like Mintos, which from what I can see is garnering good reception. Any kind of info, feedback is warmly welcome.

 

[Smiley90]

Not quite sure if it's the right thread but was wondering if there are some opinions or even consensus on p2p lending ? After years of letting my savings waste away on a 0,5 % savings account, I decided to finally do something with them. Most will probably go to some ETF funds which I finally found about and found a way to invest in from my country (where there's almost none) but I thought of directing some small part into something like Mintos, which from what I can see is garnering good reception. Any kind of info, feedback is warmly welcome.

that seems incredibly risky and not a solid RETIREMENT savings strategy. Might be more suited for the stock/gambling thread.

 

[tokkun]

Not quite sure if it's the right thread but was wondering if there are some opinions or even consensus on p2p lending ? After years of letting my savings waste away on a 0,5 % savings account, I decided to finally do something with them. Most will probably go to some ETF funds which I finally found about and found a way to invest in from my country (where there's almost none) but I thought of directing some small part into something like Mintos, which from what I can see is garnering good reception. Any kind of info, feedback is warmly welcome.

I can understand some of the appeal, given that bond yields in most countries are near-zero. There are few good alternatives these days for someone looking for income investments.

Personally I am skeptical about whether I can trust the information given by P2P lending companies about the quality of the loans, given that it is a young industry without as much regulation as other parts of the financial industry and has had some scandals in the past few years. These services have mostly been around during the huge post-recession bull market, so it is hard to gauge what the delinquency rates will look like on these loans when we next enter a recession, since there is no historical data to draw off of. You basically have to take these companies at their word.

That said, it's probably fine to add to your portfolio as long as you keep it to something like 5% or less of your overall holdings.

 

[Neverwinter27]

What do you guys think of the current Vanguard REIT, should I go for index funds or ETF? I have enough for admiral shares. Also what percentage of this fund is recommended as part of my all stock related portfolio?

 

[phaze]

that seems incredibly risky and not a solid RETIREMENT savings strategy. Might be more suited for the stock/gambling thread.

Was searching through GAF for "investing" but I guess "stocks" were the better idea.

I can understand some of the appeal, given that bond yields in most countries are near-zero. There are few good alternatives these days for someone looking for income investments.

Personally I am skeptical about whether I can trust the information given by P2P lending companies about the quality of the loans, given that it is a young industry without as much regulation as other parts of the financial industry and has had some scandals in the past few years. These services have mostly been around during the huge post-recession bull market, so it is hard to gauge what the delinquency rates will look like on these loans when we next enter a recession, since there is no historical data to draw off of. You basically have to take these companies at their word.

That said, it's probably fine to add to your portfolio as long as you keep it to something like 5% or less of your overall holdings.

Yeah ~5% is the general idea. If the economy starts going down the drain then I'll withdraw as fast as I can. Thanks for input.

 

[mstevens]

From the budgeting app thread:

I wanna see you in a year in the Retirement Investment thread, when you're baller as fuck from YNABing for a year. Seriously, stick with it and the method, and you'll be on the way to a changed life.

Right on, man!....Actually, I'll just head on over now

I'm pretty good with money but tend to wing it too much. It works for now (I always put a few hundred into a ROTH IRA, a couple hundred extra on the mortgage, and my work has a great pension program that I contribute to each month). I want to use YNAB as a way to track what is left over better. Planning on having a kid in a couple years and that is a lot of where this motivation comes from.

One thing I set up last night (and is something that I've been wanting for a looooong time) is sub categories for my savings so I can see which monies are allocated to which specific goal. I have a main savings category with vacation - computer replacement - and emergency as sub categories. I have each set up with a goal, and when I budget it that month I transfer the money from checking to savings (which is unnecessary I guess, but it's nice to have it all in one place)

Any advice or things that you guys wish you had known when you first started using YNAB? The only thing I haven't figured out how I'm going to tackle it is splitting the bills with my GF (hopefully fiancée next week). Right now we use venmo to split everything (I pay it and she venmos me half). My current plan is to budget for the whole thing and then just have her payments to me as small, supplemental inflow. We are probably going to keep things mostly separate once we get married (maybe a joint account that we pay into to pay off bills), and I doubt I'll talk her into using YNAB, so I may as well get a handle on how I'm going to do it now.

 

[anonymous_abc]

.

 

[PflargBlarg]

As an example of what proper planning (plus a certain level of income) can do, I've just lost my job but am not particularly concerned. In Canada, employment insurance covers 55% of your earnings (up to earnings of something like 52000/year). Luckily, I save more than 50% of my earnings to begin with so EI by itself almost completely covers me.

So with that, plus the layoff payout leaving me with 10k in cash I am good for well over 6 months. On the day that I was laid off, the HR person and business guy were all very apologetic and concerned while I was mostly just thinking "Oh good, this leaves me a lot more time to prep and do interviews at other places".

Lot of thanks to this thread and r/financialindependence for being in this situation.

 

[GhaleonEB]

As an example of what proper planning (plus a certain level of income) can do, I've just lost my job but am not particularly concerned. In Canada, employment insurance covers 55% of your earnings (up to earnings of something like 52000/year). Luckily, I save more than 50% of my earnings to begin with so EI by itself almost completely covers me.

So with that, plus the layoff payout leaving me with 10k in cash I am good for well over 6 months. On the day that I was laid off, the HR person and business guy were all very apologetic and concerned while I was mostly just thinking "Oh good, this leaves me a lot more time to prep and do interviews at other places".

Lot of thanks to this thread and r/financialindependence for being in this situation.

That's a good situation to be in, relatively speaking. I'm in a position where I'm contemplating leaving my employer after ~14 years, and it's terrifying.

 

[Icelandic_Jazz]

Does it make sense to save for a house using a Backdoor Roth (After tax 401k to Roth conversion), essentially using it as a savings account?

Since it is after tax I can withdraw the contributions penalty free at any time. I'm probably 3-5 years away from a house purchase.

The only downside I can think of is that I can't withdraw any gains other than $10k for first-time homebuyer. If I saved for a house in a regular after tax investment, I could withdraw the taxed gains. And any money I take out will lower my compounding for retirement, but I would basically be using this as a replacement for a 1.2% interest savings account.

 

[PantherLotus]

Y'all ever get an offer (verbal) on a promotion which you accept, then they come back a few days later and say 'oops, we couldn't get that much for you?'. What the actual fuck kinda trashy ass company do I even work for?

 

[Smiley90]

Y'all ever get an offer (verbal) on a promotion which you accept, then they come back a few days later and say 'oops, we couldn't get that much for you?'. What the actual fuck kinda trashy ass company do I even work for?

At my current job my boss said I'd get a raise, then HR blocked the raise because "there's an upper limit to the raise someone with my job title can get". Real talk. I love Unions but that was some real BS.

 

[tokkun]

Does it make sense to save for a house using a Backdoor Roth (After tax 401k to Roth conversion), essentially using it as a savings account?

Since it is after tax I can withdraw the contributions penalty free at any time. I'm probably 3-5 years away from a house purchase.

The only downside I can think of is that I can't withdraw any gains other than $10k for first-time homebuyer. If I saved for a house in a regular after tax investment, I could withdraw the taxed gains. And any money I take out will lower my compounding for retirement, but I would basically be using this as a replacement for a 1.2% interest savings account.

If you are doing a Traditional IRA to Roth IRA conversion (commonly referred to as the "Backdoor Roth IRA"), withdrawals of the principal are subject to the 5-year rule.

This does not apply to 401k to Roth IRA rollovers (more commonly referred to as the "Mega Backdoor Roth IRA").

 

[Icelandic_Jazz]

I would be doing Mega Backdoor, which seems to have very few downsides. Other than it being a loophole that might disappear sometime in the future.

 

[Makai]

This does not apply to 401k to Roth IRA rollovers (more commonly referred to as the "Mega Backdoor Roth IRA").

Wow, what? That's awesome.

 

[longdi]

Hey guys, what u think of buying unit trusts and let the fund managers do the work?

If someone has compliance issues with using a personal trading account and also a shortage of time to monitor the same basket of investments...

 

[tokkun]

I would be doing Mega Backdoor, which seems to have very few downsides. Other than it being a loophole that might disappear sometime in the future.

Personally I am not optimistic about it lasting much longer. I expect it to be one of the first things on the chopping block if Republicans manage to pass a tax reform bill. I am actually a little worried that Mnuchin's suggestion that they make the new tax rules retroactive from the beginning of this year would result in it disqualifying the Backdoor and Mega Backdoor transactions I have already executed this year.

Hey guys, what u think of buying unit trusts and let the fund managers do the work?

If someone has compliance issues with using a personal trading account and also a shortage of time to monitor the same basket of investments...

This is non-US I assume?

People around here are generally in favor of the hands-off aspect, but also opposed to paying the sort of management fees you usually get from an actively managed fund. I would look closely at the total fees associated with the trust and whether there are lower cost alternatives available.