Ixarulean said:No, the publisher will. The developers will care about which is easier to develop for without compromising their "vision."
But developers (unfortunately) are genreally at the whim of publishers..
Ixarulean said:No, the publisher will. The developers will care about which is easier to develop for without compromising their "vision."
Xenon is a more propietary design (IBM CPU for instance). Sony using Nvidia with PS3 should net them a lot of support now also in the same regard. I don't see either of them having an advantage in that area.
Yeah, this is already a major selling point for Xbox R&D. XNA will ensure crossdevelopment is even more lucrative for Xenon & PC. nVidia drivers aren't nearly the same thing, PS3 is still going to be a relatively alien platform by comparison.jedimike said:XNA is going to allow developers to code for Xbox and PC simultaneously.
jedimike said:XNA is going to allow developers to code for Xbox and PC simultaneously.
Buggy Loop said:Microsoft saw nvidia's offering before deciding on ATI
Buggy Loop said:Microsoft saw nvidia's offering before deciding on ATI, it was between nvidia and ATI, and for microsoft i doubt it was only a question of pricing. If they picked ATI, makes you wonder what nvidia could offer sony that would cause a reaction at MS, of course, ps3 is farther down the line than xbox and will likely be more powerful overall but i dont think its going to be anywhere near the gap of this generation.
MS should push to match or exceed PS3 in terms of performance IMHO, delay the launch if necessary. Xbox is doing really fine right now. Otherwise they're going to lose a lot of developers who will want to work with the latest and best hardware.
I also can't help but keep in mind how, while the Xbox did have a distinct advantage graphically, versus the Ps2 the differences weren't what might be called "revolutionary". It more so lay with the faults within the Ps2 hardware that were present from the beginning--poor display quality, minimal VRAM, etc--that made certain Dreamcast games better looking in comparison. This won't be a problem for the next gen of consoles now, and with that in mind, I expect the differences between the two machines to be, perhaps, modestly negligable in most cases (as is the case with most multiplatform games these days). with the exception of games produced by the likes of Konami, Polyphony Digital, Tecmo, Bungie, and such. All will be able to produce mindblowing visuals--that is the ONLY thing we can be certain of, at this point.
XNA, first of all, is not 10 years in the making. It was a proposal made at GDC last year, that's it. It's being blown way out of proportion, even if it does deliver.
"Ease of development" is a crock anyway IMO.
You think any head of any big publisher gives a flying f-ck about that stuff? He's paying his programmers to program, so they better roll up their sleeves, put down their bag of Doritos, turn up their bifocals and do just that.
cybamerc said:It was certainly expected. For the first two years. Losing money at this point is just pitiful. Xbox is a massive failure. M$ just happens to be able to absorb the losses.
jedimike said:1. Momentum - Xbox and PS2 have been on nearly equal selling grounds for most of the year.
jedimike said:XNA is going to allow developers to code for Xbox and PC simultaneously.
Barnimal said:massive failure? :lol pretty much singlehandedly running the gamecube into the ground and stealing share from sony at the same time is a failure now? :lol
And so is the architectural similarity between the next GeForce and PS3 GPU. I bet ID and Epic'll be most pleased.
Phoenix said:Please look up the term "pyric victory"![]()
And all it cost them was $5+ billion! Teh success!Barnimal said:massive failure? :lol pretty much singlehandedly running the gamecube into the ground and stealing share from sony at the same time is a failure now? :lol
thorns said:see you in the npd thread on thursday![]()
A victory that is offset by staggering losses.
A victory that is offset by staggering losses, as in The campaign was so divisive that even though he won the election it was a Pyrrhic victory. This expression alludes to Kind Pyrrhus of Epirus, who defeated the Romans at Asculum in a.d. 279, but lost his best officers and many of his troops. Pyrrhus then said: "Another such victory and we are lost." In English the term was first recorded (used figuratively) in 1879.
KeithFranklin said:Interesting thing is that NVidia will build a DirectX driver for the next GeForce so XNA will be able to take advantage of the GPU.
The fact of the matter is that what Sony seems to have done is go ass-backwards on design - they have gone with CELL which is similar to PS2 in striving for fill rate performance, and then taken twenty steps in a different direction by using Nvidia for GPU, which is actually likely to level the playing field and make Xenon and PS3 nearly identical in terms of performance, and likely to promote another round of multiple platform gaming.
Barnimal said:massive failure? :lol pretty much singlehandedly running the gamecube into the ground and stealing share from sony at the same time is a failure now? :lol
Phoenix said:Hmm... perhaps a definition of the term is in order if you think the NPD thread means anything. If Microsoft spends so much that even after capturing marketshare they lose their ass, it is a pyrrhic victory.
Hopefully that help you understand why the NPD doesn't mean anything with respect to the terminology used![]()
Cerrius said:What you fail to realize is that Nintendo was already an established brand. While Microsoft's Xbox was the new kid on the block and had 0 respect and 0 amount of credibility with gamers. The N64 was on a decline, while the Xbox has all the momentum this gen.
Vortac said:Not much reality to the argument that GPU processor affects ease of development.
Nvidia's current lineup for development tools includes FX Composer, NVPerfHUD, NVIDIA SDK, Melody, and Shader Model 3 which someone else pointed out is a Microsoft thing.
These tools are about as useful as MS Paint in the overall game creation model, it takes a lot more than that to make a game these days, especially with next gen stuff. XNA isn't even the other option. The reality is that Microsoft has sat down and virtually laid out to developers in how to write beautiful graphics, and that's something Sony never did, and are still wondering if they will lift a finger to help them next generation as small to medium sized studios continue to go out of business and be pushed around by juggernauts like EA.
mrklaw said:can someone explain to me the real money benefits of easy ports to PC from Xbox2, which XNA is supposed to offer? Remove the 5 or so really big sellers - whats an average PC game sell these days compared to xbox/PS2?
Che said:Calm down man. What you call momentum, I call PS2 shortage and this momntum only applies in North America. Xbox sells good in USA but I wouldn't call that "momentum". Let's not forget that Xbox is pacing with GC in worldwide sales (and to be exact, Xbox has sold around a million more consoles than GC iirc) which is nothing admirable for the console. Some people make it sound like Xbox is killing PS2 nowadays.
Che said:Calm down man. What you call momentum, I call PS2 shortage and this "momentum" only applies in North America. Xbox sells good in USA that's true, but I wouldn't call that momentum. Let's not forget that Xbox is pacing with GC in worldwide sales (and to be exact, Xbox has sold around a million more consoles than GC iirc) which is nothing admirable for the console. Some people make it sound like Xbox is killing PS2 nowadays.
Cerrius said:The executives that have powered their way and have ate into Sony's monopoly on the home video game console industry. The executives that have made the XBOX gain respect from many gamers around the world, and the executives that approved of the beauty known as Halo 2.
Oh yes they do. You spend time working around the flaws in a shitty GPU. Time you could spend on cool shit, if the GPU actually did its job.Phoenix said:GPUs don't ease development
XS+ said:Microsoft hasn't eaten into Sony's "monopoly on the home video console industry." Sony's share of the market is larger than it was last year; 3rd party support for the PS2 is superior to what the PS1 saw; and the PS2 continues to outsell its competitors, outpacing the PS1 within a similar duration. It's ok, man. Maybe Halo 3 will launch with the Xbox2.
Phoenix said:Beating the GC isn't a milestone IMO. I think we can all pretty much agree that the gamecube is last (if even present) on most people's gaming lists. While I think its a nice little platform for the rare good exclusive that arrives every 8 months (if that often), the Xbox beating the gamecube is like sinking ships in pearl harbor on Dec. 7, 1941.
soundwave05 said:The XBox has outsold the PS2 simply because Sony has been clearing PS2 stock.
That's sort of like saying you beat the Lakers ... without Kobe Bryant playing.
Halo 2 is a sales juggernaut, but Sony's seen this scenario before, Zelda: OoT was just as big for 1998 as Halo 2 is today, infact Sony weathered three consecutive years of Nintendo arguably having the " oh my gawd! game of the year ... game of the decade!!!" (Mario 64 in '96, GoldenEye in '97, Zelda: OoT in '98).
Sony does not hang their hat only on one franchise, that's never been their philosophy.
Lets see how "loyal" that XBox audience is when/if the PS3 is superior tech wise. I admit honestly I probably would not have an XBox if it was the same tech wise as the PS2 or inferior. Halo's a good franchise, but it ain't that good.
MrparisSM said:Well I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that it's just exciting as hell to have someone ANYONE keeping paces with Sony even if it's just for a little while. Nintendo hasn't really been able to do it(and have been losing more and more console market share unfortunately), but Microsoft although they had a rocky start, is really doing some great things. Setting software sales records(Halo 2), the best Online network, the best hardware. I'm the type that roots for the underdog. And you can be sure if Sony didn't have someone on their ass the PS3 would not be as good as it's going to be. And a similar thing for the PSP, it wouldn't be anywhere near as cheap as it is now IMO. Competition is a good thing. We haven't had a good Console war since the SNES and Genesis days... ever since the PS1, sony has just been dominating.
Izzy said:Is this a joke??? European PS2 sales alone crush worldwide XBox figures - and we're only talking about the last year or so.
Barnimal said:massive failure? :lol pretty much singlehandedly running the gamecube into the ground and stealing share from sony at the same time is a failure now? :lol
DopeyFish said:The ball is in Microsofts court. If MS wasn't around, Sony wouldn't have outsourced their GPU.
A lot of you might not think it, but Microsoft is the one pressuring Sony into this, like they did with Live, as they keep doing in other regions including development tools.
Will the continued pressure from Microsoft translate into sales? That's a whole other question.
RobotChant said:Too bad beating Nintendo wasn't the goal when they got into the business.
Actually, if it werent for Sony and their all-in-one box talk, we wouldnt be talking about a MS system, and Live wouldn't even be around. Nor would we be talking about a MS system possibly being released in 05 to beat out the competition. Looks like Sony is doing a lot of the pressuring to me. Contrary to what some believe, Sony wouldve been fine without Nvidia. On the other hand, if Sony had followed through with it's lofty goal of an all-in-one box, MS would've been in deep shit. The fact that MS reacted to it, proves that.
Sony, for the most part, still seems to be doing whatever the hell they wants to do.
XS+ said:Not only that -- the PS2 has saturated the market, selling an unprecedented number that the Xbox will NEVER approach. It's a disingenuous claim, neglecting to factor in the total sales of the PS2. That the Xbox sells "on par" with the PS2, now, is neither a shock nor a feat to crow over. Also, it's a lie that the Xbox sells "on par" with the PS2. I mention that only for argument's sake.
StoOgE said:so, if you rename the files on PS3 discs will the framerate drop but IQ will increase? :lol
Master Z said:So now MS can't run with the "superior graphics" angle next gen. I guess it's all about marketing XBL now...