it's honestly different, the direction for dbz was different than db, dbz wasn't much of a joke anime than db where Toriyama was able to get away with anything he come up with like sending goku's enemy to the moon with his Nyoibo
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How would you rate the dragon ball (both original and z) arcs?
- Thread starter Anteater
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it's honestly different, the direction for dbz was different than db, dbz wasn't much of a joke anime than db where Toriyama was able to get away with anything he come up with like sending goku's enemy to the moon with his Nyoibo
Well the buu arc is a conclusion to all of dragon ball ( well was) so naturally it brought back the comedy, it's interesting where people draw the line on this stuff
Razorback
Member
It's about keeping a consistent tone throughout the series.
And I had to google that carrot thing, I hardly remember that character, but Buu is the main villain of the final arc of the series.
Freezer > Saiyan > Buu >>> Cell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> android
I'm not really big on either Buu, Cell or the androids, but Buu, as stupid as he was, that arc was at least sorta fun. Cell was a fantastic idea in theory, but his arc was utter shite in execution. And the androids should never have fucking existed to begin with.
I'm not really big on either Buu, Cell or the androids, but Buu, as stupid as he was, that arc was at least sorta fun. Cell was a fantastic idea in theory, but his arc was utter shite in execution. And the androids should never have fucking existed to begin with.
In my opinion the Cell Saga is fantastic until Gohan gets the hero push abruptly at the end. Dude spends most of the saga being a background character and the arc isn't about him in the slightest, and then he suddenly gets the hero moment at the end? Fuck that noise. #ItShouldHaveBeenVegetaInstead
Yeah but from the start of the saga it clearly more focused on comedy, Buu is clearly a joke the moment he emerges
Not sure about the Vegeta part, but yes, I agree with everything else.
haha well i don't mind the buu arc, it has some memorable moments, but you can tell the direction is quite different whether it's because of the editor or toriyama himself
It was Toriyama. The editor for the Buu saga was notably hands-off. The Cell Saga is the result of a very hands-on editor.
My fantasy ending for the Cell Saga is fairly close to how the saga itself ends. Gohan goes SSJ2, nearly defeats Cell, then Goku sacrifices himself when Cell blows up, then Cell returns and shoots Future Trunks. Seeing his son get off'd causes Vegeta to have one of those moments of clarity where he realizes all of this shit is pretty much his fault, Vegeta snaps, goes SSJ2 himself, and the Cell Saga ends with Cell and Vegeta in a Kamehameha vs Gallick Gun beam struggle reminiscent of the Goku/Vegeta version in the Saiyan Saga, except now the hero/villain roles are reversed. Basically condense down the character development Vegeta gets in the Buu Saga and place it into the Cell Saga instead, with the added bonus of Vegeta's hero moment being actually meaningful.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I never watched more than the first saga of DB, but as for DBZ the Android/Cell Saga is my favorite, followed by the Namek Saga. Saiyan Saga and Buu Saga are the bottom two.
Do the Android and Cell Saga count as one or two sagas?
Do the Android and Cell Saga count as one or two sagas?
It just strangely done, his relationship with trunks in the future should have played more into into his power up, would have trunks more importance at the end too. There's something missing tying everything together correctly in that arc. It's a great moment though
It was the best DBZ arc because of that I think. There was so much tension and the stakes felt so huge.
The Frieza arc was great too, but was the beginning of the end in my mind. It could have been salvaged had they actually dropped Goku and focused on Gohan completely after that, but Android/Cell saga screwed the pooch and just kept jacking up the power levels for everyone and by the time Buu Saga began the plot was totally lost and it was the "how crazy can we get and also do everything to keep Goku the star" series.
What I wish they did post Frieza arc was to make SSJ Goku and Frieza pinnacles that everyone then struggled, immensely, to reach, not the new baseline, but instead they just went on to try and boost everyone to their level and way beyond ASAP. Being SSJ was supposed to be a legendary only ever happened once before thing and then suddenly everyone was doing it and going beyond it like it was nothing. Trunks, his introduction and everything about him was the worst thing ever, despite everyone seemingly loving the shit out of that scene and him to my complete astonishment.
It would have been a lot cooler and more compelling to have toned things down and focused on Gohan having his own low key DB style adventures. Trying to live up to his father's legacy, while also being his own person. Which they did to an extent in the Cell Saga and parts of Buu saga, with their time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and Gohan's relationship with Android 16 and what not, but it was too rushed and power levels too great to impart any real lasting meaning or stakes. Especially with how they handled him during Buu. Sure the end of Cell saga was boss as shit, but series as a whole was just too over the top afterwards to ever really be serious again.
You could totally do the Android/Cell saga mostly the same way with the power levels dropped down dramatically to non-SSJ levels. Instead of Gohan reaching SSJ2 at the end, just have him reach SSJ on his own in the final moments. Cut out Trunks, Goku and their nonsense. Keep Vegeta but don't let him reach SSJ but continue to struggle and grapple with trying to surpass Kakarot. Develop his character arc similarly becoming more selfless but in service to Gohan and the others.
This ramping up of powers and stakes also hurt things as there rarely was time for any kind of interesting downtime in the DBZ arcs. What was done was always over the top comedy bits that felt kind of forced and out of place. They incorporated the Tournament into things but it was just window dressing, there was no drama there, it was always about some world ending catastrophe. Probably one of my favorite point during the Cell saga was after Gohan and Goku leave the time chamber and Gohan is just chilling and has his little side conflict with Mercenary Tao. That was a great little side story and what I wish Gohan was doing all the time and should have been a full arc or two before getting to the real serious Android/Cell sagas as outlined.
That's what made DB great. It could balance things out with high stakes drama and low stakes drama. Your Red Ribbon and Piccolos threatening nations and the world and then your Tournaments with internal drama and rivalries with Tienshinhan and the like.
Edit: Fuck. I spend way too much fucking time thinking about DB.
Should have been trunks imo to mirror trunks own intial transformation and bind the character even closer together
100% with you there
Dragonball is life.
Yup. The problem is that Gohan doesn't even go SSJ until like 10 episodes before he fights Cell. So 1) it's too short a time to develop his newfound abilities as well as any subsequent new powers to be manifested later on and 2) there's no relationship between him and Cell that makes you really give a shit about the fight itself beyond the fact that Cell is a bad guy. Both Vegeta and Freezer had some kind of larger connection to Goku in some way, which made their battles feel a lot more satisfying.
Exactly. I never understood why he gave a shit at all about 16.
keltickennedy
Member
I liked Dragon Ball the most before everyone started getting multi-colored hair.
So I would say original DB and DBZ with the OG Z Fighters. The movies during that period were also better in my opinion.
So I would say original DB and DBZ with the OG Z Fighters. The movies during that period were also better in my opinion.
The filler hurts it though.