HS Basketball Coach suspened for winning a game 161-2

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masud said:
After playing pressure d for the whole first half and scoring over 100 points in 16 minutes...
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If you don't allow your team to run their actual offensive and defensive sets for 10 minutes, chances are you get sloppy when you play a real team.

Halftime is the bare minimum you're expected to give fucks at any level of competitive sports. If you call off the dogs and the other team is still turning the ball over just trying to dribble past half court, and your benchwarmers are styling for uncontested layups after 10 passes, what else are you supposed to do? It's no longer a sport if you literally get out of the way so they can shoot unopposed and make it respectable.

Best thing to do is tell your players to be classy about it, and try not to rub it in.
 
"People shouldn't feel sorry for my team," Chung said. "They should feel sorry for his team, which isn't learning the game the right way."
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Chung should be fired for not teaching his team at all.
 
uncredited male said:
Once again, my example was from women's intramurals. As in grown women. It is hard to win games when a league folds because you cannot recruit and retain new players.

My point was that not everyone is playing for winning and scholarships even at the high school level and it could be helpful not to get caught in that assumption when discussing this.
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1rrpmjV.gif


HELLO?
 
If the score was gone past 30-40 pts and the coach was still pressing, I'd be inclined as a player to throw an elbow or 3.

I blame the refs for allowing the game to continue. That is disgusting.
 
Nobody cries foul when there's a shutout in baseball or football, even when the score gets run up. I'm sure there's no rule that sets an arbitrary point limit.
 
DoktorEvil said:
If the score was gone past 30-40 pts and the coach was still pressing, I'd be inclined as a player to throw an elbow or 3.

I blame the refs for allowing the game to continue. That is disgusting.
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At least for men, if you're losing a game by 30-40 pts in a half, the other team is probably quite a bit bigger, faster, and more athletic, so this would be an...unwise course of action.

Sometimes in life, you just have to take Ls. It's part of growing up.

Then again, I've seen guys resort to thuggery in intramural games where the score was within 20 points, so there's not really any consistency there.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
At least for men, if you're losing a game by 30-40 pts in a half, the other team is probably quite a bit bigger, faster, and more athletic, so this would be an...unwise course of action.

Sometimes in life, you just have to take Ls. It's part of growing up.

Then again, I've seen guys resort to thuggery in intramural games where the score was within 20 points, so there's not really any consistency there.
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There was an 100+ point gap between the two teams by halftime...

Refs didn't do their job and call the game then. There was no reason to allow both teams to continue play.

At that point who gives a shit about teaching life lessons? End the game and let the girls go home instead of continuing.
 
DoktorEvil said:
Clearly they were not equipped to deal with the better team, but it's poor form to continue the game with an 100+ point lead at halftime.
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Then the losing team's coach should have thrown in the towel. You can't just say "game over we win" no matter how far ahead you are.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Assuming I get to sit down at a computer later and type out some points, would it matter to you if I have championship titles or if I only have participation medals?
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If you did have championship titles, you would know you don't let off the gas because you think the other team might feel bad. I played baseball in HS, we weren't a power house or anything but we would dish out a beating every now and then. We never once thought, oh that poor team, maybe we should let up on them.
 
What garbage if you lose, you lose. There are scouts out there looking for how good you play. People might actually want to push their dreams further. Sorry, play the best you can play, this isn't elementary school. These are highschool students, some of which want to play professional
 
DarkFlow said:
If you did have championship titles, you would know you don't let off the gas because you think the other team might feel bad. I played baseball in HS, we weren't a power house or anything but we would dish out a beating every now and then. We never once thought, oh that poor team, maybe we should let up on them.
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ESPECIALLY when the coaches discussed the fact that the Arroyo team needed to practice for league and would be running a full-court press for the first half so they were ready and asked the other coach to voice any concerns he had about it in advance.
 
Suspend the other coach for fielding such a dishonorable team. Suspend the other school's Athletic Director for scheduling his school against such a superior opponent.
 
Crosseyes said:
I wouldnt see it as a bigger wrong if the team was a very poor winner when running up the score. Driving the lane, full court press when up by a hundred... one team has all the power in the world and if they show poor sportsmanship while doing it then the opposing team has no other option if being disrespected by the opposing team.

Hard fouls, bean ball, late hits... they're a trope for a reason. They keep the poor sports in check if they disrespect the game.
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Winning the game is not being a poor sport and nowhere do we have information that the winning team was doing anything other than running their plays effectively against a less skilled team.

The entire mantra of "teaching the other guys a lesson" is a bullshit excuse for players being classless in defeat.

What you're suggesting is exactly what two players on the Lakers did in a playoff loss in 2011. The Mavs were blowing them out in the 4th Quarter of the 4th game in the series. And do you know how everyone reacted? Absolute disgust towards Odom and Bynum. The players that committed dangerous and flagrant fouls. It's absolutely not ok and not at all accepted by anyone who has actual respect for the sport.
 
DarkFlow said:
If you did have championship titles, you would know you don't let off the gas because you think the other team might feel bad. I played baseball in HS, we weren't a power house or anything but we would dish out a beating every now and then. We never once thought, oh that poor team, maybe we should let up on them.
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Here's what I learned in my years of competing and coaching: there are (mostly) no absolutes.

For the vast majority of the time, you're right, and especially when you're ahead, that's the time to really ramp it up because the opponent is desperate.

Being up by 60 points against a team that has clearly no chance of making a dent is a rare exception to this. And I'm all for working on a skill, since it sounds like the coach was working on full-court press. But in that second half, do you know what the players' practice amounts to? Close to nothing. It's just cardio at that point. When you work on a particular skill or set of skills it only makes sense to do it when there is tension and the players are uncomfortable.

What the coach should have done is added an extra challenge, like say you have to make X passes before the basket or, you can't shoot from this spot, or if you drive you have to go to your weak side, or you have to allow the defender to get to this position first. That's how his players would get better.

As it is now, they've gained nothing, besides negative feelings of having humiliated someone and wasted an excellent opportunity for challenging themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning team is worse off for the experience.

There's plenty more wrong with the situation but it's very annoying typing on my phone.
 
I have always been taught that you have to play your best, regardless of the skills of the competitor, because you're not respecting the game and other team otherwise. So this suspension is just fucking weird to me.

But Bloomington coach Dale Chung says Arroyo Valley used a full-court press for the entire first half to lead 104-1 at halftime.

"People shouldn't feel sorry for my team," Chung said. "They should feel sorry for his team, which isn't learning the game the right way."
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I don't get it. The losing team should learn from this, adapted their strategy, not asking the other team to play the right way.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Here's what I learned in my years of competing and coaching: there are (mostly) no absolutes.

For the vast majority of the time, you're right, and especially when you're ahead, that's the time to really ramp it up because the opponent is desperate.

Being up by 60 points against a team that has clearly no chance of making a dent is one of the rare exceptions. And I'm all for working on a skill, since it sounds like the coach was working on full-court press. But in that second half, do you know what the players' practice amounts to? Close to nothing. It's just cardio at that point. When you work on a particular skill or set of skills it only makes sense to do it when there is tension and the players are uncomfortable.

What the coach should have done is added an extra challenge, like say you have to make X passes before the basket or, you can't shoot from this spot, or if you drive you have to go to your weak side, or you have to allow the defender to get to this position first. That's how his players would get better.

As it is now, they've gained nothing, besides negative feelings of having humiliated someone and wasted an excellent opportunity for challenging themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning team is worse off for the experience.

There's plenty more wrong with the situation but it's very annoying typing on my phone.
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I get what you're saying to a point. It's just in the case, he pulled his starters, and even had his deep bench in the game. There's not much else he could do at that point. I wouldn't tell my players that don't play often to not try, I want to see what they can do too. It's not his fault the other team can't even measure up to his deep bench. We also don't know what he told his kids, they could have been shooting all left handed for all we know.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Here's what I learned in my years of competing and coaching: there are (mostly) no absolutes.

For the vast majority of the time, you're right, and especially when you're ahead, that's the time to really ramp it up because the opponent is desperate.

Being up by 60 points against a team that has clearly no chance of making a dent is a rare exception to this. And I'm all for working on a skill, since it sounds like the coach was working on full-court press. But in that second half, do you know what the players' practice amounts to? Close to nothing. It's just cardio at that point. When you work on a particular skill or set of skills it only makes sense to do it when there is tension and the players are uncomfortable.

What the coach should have done is added an extra challenge, like say you have to make X passes before the basket or, you can't shoot from this spot, or if you drive you have to go to your weak side, or you have to allow the defender to get to this position first. That's how his players would get better.

As it is now, they've gained nothing, besides negative feelings of having humiliated someone and wasted an excellent opportunity for challenging themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning team is worse off for the experience.

There's plenty more wrong with the situation but it's very annoying typing on my phone.
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Dude unloaded his third stringers and had them not shooting until the clock was almost out. What more do you want?
 
GameGuru59 said:
Some days I just don't get GAF. These "children" are highschool students. If you don't know how to play the game, get your ass off the court. I'm not surprised this story came from California though. You guys seem to be pretty big on the "everybody's a winner" culture over there. I have very little sympathy for the losing team, except to say their coach should have called the game.
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Yup. The concept of competition can be understood at very young ages. Victory means your own skill and learning has birthed something. Defeat means you need to learn and better yourself.

Accepting defeat is essential for all competition. Accepting defeat means owning up to what happened and how you influenced it, doesn't need to mean someone getting bent out of shape or being deeply disappointed for a extended period of time.
 
It seems there are some more details that either weren't apparent on the first read or I just outright missed them. So the coach actively called his team off?
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Here's what I learned in my years of competing and coaching: there are (mostly) no absolutes.

For the vast majority of the time, you're right, and especially when you're ahead, that's the time to really ramp it up because the opponent is desperate.

Being up by 60 points against a team that has clearly no chance of making a dent is a rare exception to this. And I'm all for working on a skill, since it sounds like the coach was working on full-court press. But in that second half, do you know what the players' practice amounts to? Close to nothing. It's just cardio at that point. When you work on a particular skill or set of skills it only makes sense to do it when there is tension and the players are uncomfortable.

What the coach should have done is added an extra challenge, like say you have to make X passes before the basket or, you can't shoot from this spot, or if you drive you have to go to your weak side, or you have to allow the defender to get to this position first. That's how his players would get better.

As it is now, they've gained nothing, besides negative feelings of having humiliated someone and wasted an excellent opportunity for challenging themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning team is worse off for the experience.

There's plenty more wrong with the situation but it's very annoying typing on my phone.
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He told the other coach his team was only going to play fully for one half and he specifically changed his teams strategy in the second half and pulled his starters completely. Outside of blatantly telling his team to let their opponents score, I can't see what else he really could have done.
 
brotherbean said:
It seems there are some more details that either weren't apparent on the first read or I just outright missed them. So the coach actively called his team off?
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He played his 3rd stringers after the half and stopped the press. Also told them to run the shot clock before shooting. He had informed the other coach that they'd be playing for real for a half and "that if he had any ideas or concerns just to let me know."

If anyone fucked up it was Chung. He probably thought his team could hang and didn't say anything.
 
DarkFlow said:
I get what you're saying to a point. It's just in the case, he pulled his starters, and even had his deep bench in the game. There's not much else he could do at that point. I wouldn't tell my players that don't play often to not try, I want to see what they can do too.
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To what end? What are this coach's goals? If it is to win a state championship, where presumably the competition is tougher, then having these players run their plays with virtually no opposition is counterproductive. I'd argue it makes them worse because it gets them into poor habits. If he wants to get his bench up to snuff, a better use of their time would've been to call the game early and run practice with the bench vs. the starters (I'm just giving this as a hyperbolic example).
DarkFlow said:
It's not his fault the other team can't even measure up to his deep bench.
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Certainly not, but it's his job to equip his students with the best tools for the future, and I don't think he did that.
DarkFlow said:
We also don't know what he told his kids, they could have been shooting all left handed for all we know.
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It's possible but I doubt it. When it comes to handicaps instated to intensify training, they only make sense if they result in a close to level playing field. A good one to use is "play half speed. Everything you do is half as fast as you could." Now, the team has a challenge. Now they have to play around defenders that seem faster, which will prepare them for more physical opponents. This will add pressure, and now they'll have to execute their shots and passes under pressure, which leads to muscle memory being formed or strengthened. Additionally, they're going to feel like Superman when they are allowed to go full speed. And as a bonus, it won't humiliate some HS kids that are clearly not trained enough to compete with them.
 
I'll paraphrase Colin Cowherd's rant on this, as I wholeheartedly agree with him (on this topic anyway):

Se people seem to be thinking these kids on the losing team are going to be tragically hurt and scarred and be on a psychiatrist's couch in the future because this game destroyed their lives. It's just simply not true. These kids probably already knew that they were pretty bad as a team. They also likely knew the team they were playing were God-tier in comparison. 15-20 minutes after the game they probably didn't care any more. They'll be fine!! They probably wanted to go eat Subway after the game then went home and forgot about it. I cannot possibly imagine any of those girls are going to slip into a depression or have some sort of huge personality/confidence flaw as a result of this one game.

You learn more from losing big than winning big. You get more character from it, and get a bigger desire to do better. This ass whooping might motivate the players to practice harder and maybe next year it'll be like 80-30 loss and they'll keep getting better and in a few years thy might eek out a win, who knows!! The kids on the winning side, though? This was barely a practice for them. If their starters even broke a sweat while they were in the game I'd be surprised. They got nothing from this, and it was just a required formality before hitting the League games later on.

(End Cowherd paraphrasing)

As a personal anecdote, I played high school football for four years. I played on the defensive line, usually. My first three years of high school we won the state title. Like, just crushed the competition. Games were frequently won by 35+ points. It was great! Good times were had, we did what only one other school in our state had done before, and we all had a good time. My senior year we went 2-8. Kids cried. PLayers were upset. We got CRUSHED every week because although our defense was still decent, our offense could barely move the ball. A first down was a god send. But, that last year I probably learned more and practiced harder than I ever did before because it pissed me off!! Even though I knew I wouldn't be back the next year (and likely wasn't going to play in college because of my educational plans) I wanted underclassmen to see what I and other seniors were doing and step it up again.

These girls are going to be fine, and losing this big may actually do some good. Suspending the coach was dumb.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
To what end? What are this coach's goals? If it is to win a state championship, where presumably the competition is tougher, then having these players run their plays with virtually no opposition is counterproductive. I'd argue it makes them worse because it gets them into poor habits. If he wants to get his bench up to snuff, a better use of their time would've been to call the game early and run practice with the bench vs. the starters (I'm just giving this as a hyperbolic example).

Certainly not, but it's his job to equip his students with the best tools for the future, and I don't think he did that.
It's possible but I doubt it. When it comes to handicaps instated to intensify training, they only make sense if they result in a close to level playing field. A good one to use is "play half speed. Everything you do is half as fast as you could." Now, the team has a challenge. Now they have to play around defenders that seem faster, which will prepare them for more physical opponents. This will add pressure, and now they'll have to execute their shots and passes under pressure, which leads to muscle memory being formed or strengthened. Additionally, they're going to feel like Superman when they are allowed to go full speed. And as a bonus, it won't humiliate some HS kids that are clearly not trained enough to compete with them.
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College Football does crap like this every year. Most powerhouse schools open the season with a Cupcake game, so they can beat the crap out of them and work out kinks in a real game without the fear they might lose.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...es-still-rule-in-college-football-playoff-era
It's very common.
 
Dayum. Are we sure the game was only 32 minutes? Cause wow. I kinda think the coach of the losing team should have spoken up sooner if he wanted or expected some sort of concession.
 
Ambient80 said:
These girls are going to be fine, and losing this big may actually do some good. Suspending the coach was dumb.
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I agree that the losing girls will be fine. Kids are resilient, especially athletes. The winning girls came away with the worse experience. The local communities did, too.

Jest Chillin said:
He told the other coach his team was only going to play fully for one half and he specifically changed his teams strategy in the second half and pulled his starters completely. Outside of blatantly telling his team to let their opponents score, I can't see what else he really could have done.
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Well, he's the coach, and he has many options at his disposal to make better use of his players' time. If he thinks they benefited somehow from their "win", he's sorely mistaken.

It would be like Manny Pacquiao knocking the teeth out of some poor schlob off the street that doesn't know how to keep his hands up. Would it improve Manny's boxing or his career? No, it would probably leave him a little weaker for his next real opponent.
 
I've never found anything wrong with getting your ass completely handed to you every once in a while. Sometimes you have to acknowledge you're gonna face people who completely outclass you. It's when you lose badly in every single game that you begin to feel truly awful.

That's where you have two options: give up (i.e. learned helplessness) or take every possible measure to improve.

My cousin is an amazing basketball player, but his team often loses the games by a douzen or two or more points. It's humiliating. I feel for him. And hey, that's where it'd be easy for him to give in and blame his team, but he keeps playing and doing his best. It's admirable sportsmanship.

For me, I'd do theater and get ensemble roles all the time for years on end. It pissed me off and depressed me so much, but for some reason I never felt like I could give up, so I took lessons, classes, and involved myself in every activity and practice I could. Now I can safely say I'm a extremely talented singer and actor and have gotten the leads I've worked for.

But not everyone can have that drive; I didn't for sports. And even If you try hard, there's no guarantee you'll get better, and that's what sucks about life. I empathize with losing players because playing to win can kill confidence. It kind of did for me, because for a long time I couldn't recognize when I did become good. With my cousin, he ignores his losses on the hope he'll have a good day Sure, it's easy to detach youself from it altogether and just say whatever, but the dedicated losers have my sympathy.

Long post short, if the team is that bad, I don't think there's much harm in showing a little mercy.
 
El Topo said:
There's winning and then there's humiliating. I don't think there should be any consequences or suspensions, but it's really an unfortunate event.
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But I mean... aside from not playing the game, what could he do? If one team is awful and another team is good, do you just tell your players to not score points? Whats the point in even playing then?
 
How does this even happen? I believe the losing coach should have coached his team better, 2 points on free throws? This game could have been 225-2 if the other team kept there starters in.
 
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