HT Receivers and speakers, how to match them and install?

Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
Hi audiophiles from Gaf. I have a friend who wants to get a nice audio setup for his place (probably a 7.1 system) and he asked me for help but I have no idea what to do. I've seen the manual for an Onkyo receiver and I've seen that for an impedance of 6 ohms the outputs are rated 135W but at 8 Ohms they're rated at minimum 80W... how does this work? What if I get 8 Ohms 120W speakers? Would that work?
 
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Pick the speakers first then find a receiver that meets their requirements. Unless the guy is getting something exotic, most gear is largely interchangeable.

Is he leaning toward a specific speaker?
 
Maiden Voyage said:
Pick the speakers first then find a receiver that meets their requirements. Unless the guy is getting something exotic, most gear is largely interchangeable.

Is he leaning toward a specific speaker?
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Yeah he wants some JBL stuff let me see here. Edit: JBL CI6S or CI8S

You said they're mostly interchangeable, so will there be a problem if he uses a 100W speaker, for example, in a 80W output?
 
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Insane Metal said:
Yeah he wants some JBL stuff let me see here. Edit: JBL CI6S or CI8S

You said they're mostly interchangeable, so will there be a problem if he uses a 100W speaker, for example, in a 80W output?
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Ideal would be 100w output yeah. It would most likely still work, but will not be optimal volume output. If it's a small room, probably not a major deal. If it's a large room, then he should definitely target 100w. And if it's a big room, I'd recommend considering a second subwoofer (7.2 system instead of 7.1).

I'm not a surround guy by any stretch so maybe there are limitations I'm unaware of. My system is a 2.1 set-up. My speakers require anything from 25w all the way up to 150w. My amp puts out 75w, which works well in my small room. I could go up in amplification but I'm happy with the results.

If he's got a hifi shop or a home theater store nearby, he should be able to demo gear before buying to ensure he likes the sound.
 
Impedance doesn't matter if the speakers you pick sound good to your ears. Just pick your ohms and stick with it across all speakers. It's also a good idea to stick with the same speaker type and manufacturer to ensure you have a matched sound (timbre/pitch) from all channels. Speakers are tuned by manufacturers just like an instrument: eg. Polk are warmer sounding while Klipsch sound colder.

Wattage rate of your speaks should be higher than your amp output and add headroom for peaks. Is there a formula? Probably. Keep in mind, oversized speakers that are fed to little power will clip and cause heat buildup leading to poor sound and early death. You need the correct speakers for your room size, handling the required wattage from your amp to create a pleasant listening experience at your ear's position.

I agree with Maiden Voyage Maiden Voyage If your room can take the space requirement of two subs it's best to use two smaller sized subs over one large sub. I recently listened to an ILM sound engineer explain the reasoning and it's smart. I'll be adding a 2nd to my setup this fall.
 
You're over complicating and over thinking it. Impedence and wattage isn't something you have to look at or concern yourself as any modern 7.1 receiver will drive any mainstream speaker to ear bleeding levels with no real risk of damage to either. The speaker's wattage spec you're reading is the maximum recommended before the volume could potentially damage the woofer/tweeter (i.e. don't feed it more than 120W), not a minimum requirement to operate. Every speaker will produce 80-90dB of volume (i.e. very very loud) with only a single watt when listening from 1 meter away. You'll likely never feed more than 20 or 30 watts to any given speaker in a surround setup unless the speakers are ridiculously inefficient or the room is massive.
 
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Wow thank you all for the feedback!

So I think we'll go with the following (please mind I'm not from the US so the receivers and speakers he'll be able to get are way more limited).

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-834 (7.2 - 80W per channel from what I saw)
Speakers: 3x CI8SA and 4x CI8S from JBL (100W RMS each)
Subwoofer: JBL Stage 100P (300W peak)

This should be a good setup, right? The room is about 18' x 15' x 10'. Maiden Voyage Maiden Voyage said 100W output would be better but this is not a big room, right?
[h3][/h3]
 
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Insane Metal said:
Wow thank you all for the feedback!

So I think we'll go with the following (please mind I'm not from the US so the receivers and speakers he'll be able to get are way more limited).

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-834 (7.2 - 80W per channel from what I saw)
Speakers: 3x CI8SA and 4x CI8S from JBL (100W RMS each)
Subwoofer: JBL Stage 100P (300W peak)

This should be a good setup, right? The room is about 18' x 15' x 10'. Maiden Voyage Maiden Voyage said 100W output would be better but this is not a big room, right?
[h3][/h3]
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Can you link directly to the speakers? I am only finding in ceiling ones with those product numbers. I assume he's getting bookshelf?
 
You need speakers and then a receiver to drive them. And you want a good receiver that puts out good clean power to the speakers.

I have a Yamaha now but I use to have a Krell. That Krell was a think of beauty and incredible. Technology just passed it by.
 
Reallink said:
Is there some reason he HAS to use in-ceiling speakers? You generally don't want to use in-ceiling speakers for non-Atmos channels if it can be avoided, and particularly not for the fronts.
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Concur, if you use strictly in-ceiling speakers, it will sound like it's all coming from the ceiling, even if you get the ones that project at an angle instead of straight down. They'll probably sound okay in terms of quality, but the point of the surround sound experience is directional audio in relation to what's onscreen. Ceiling speakers for the fronts will make the sound feel disconnected from what you see. Imagine if you're talking to someone in front of you but their voice is coming from somewhat above them… personally, I'd find that endlessly distracting.

Floorstanding speakers are highly recommended for the front left and right speakers. Or at least bookshelf speakers on some stands. Ceiling speakers should be the last considered and only after you've filled out the other channels, reserved for the Dolby Atmos experience as Reallink mentioned.
 
Maiden Voyage said:
So what are his front facing speakers? IE the left, right, and center channel ones.
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Reallink said:
Is there some reason he HAS to use in-ceiling speakers? You generally don't want to use in-ceiling speakers for non-Atmos channels if it can be avoided, and particularly not for the fronts.
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It's the 3 ones in that kit that are somewhat inclined. He doesn't want the speakers in his furniture for whatever reason.
 
Wattage ratings aren't that important unless your plan is to drive the speakers to reference volume level for hours at a time like a movie theater auditorium. Reference volume level is LOUD. Like THX promo trailer "The Audience Is Now Deaf" levels of loud. No one listens to their home theater at reference level except maybe a couple minutes to see if they can shake their neighbors' houses for funsies.

In general, you want to match speakers by buying them all from the same manufacturer. Pick your favorite speaker company and buy all the speakers from that company. Matching tone and timbre is much harder if you start mixing companies so don't do it.

There are now companies which sell front speakers which also have upwards firing drivers if you want Dolby Atmos without actually putting holes in your ceiling to mount speakers. They work well and don't require actual drilling of holes.
 
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Insane Metal said:
It's the 3 ones in that kit that are somewhat inclined. He doesn't want the speakers in his furniture for whatever reason.
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That's going to sound weird. Everything will be coming from above rather than in front of him. Here's an example of what a typical atmos set of speakers would look like:
www.klipsch.com

RP-8060FA 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos® Home Theater System | Klipsch

The Klipsch RP-8060FA 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos® Home Theater System delivers unparalleled acoustic clarity for a premium listening experience.
www.klipsch.com www.klipsch.com

Take a look at what Dolby themselves say on speaker set-up:
www.dolby.com

Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guides

Browse our wide-range of Dolby Atmos speaker step-by-step setup guides to find the best speaker placement and configuration for your home theater.
www.dolby.com www.dolby.com

In-ceilings shouldn't be the primary.
 
AJUMP23 said:
You need speakers and then a receiver to drive them. And you want a good receiver that puts out good clean power to the speakers.

I have a Yamaha now but I use to have a Krell. That Krell was a think of beauty and incredible. Technology just passed it by.
Click to expand...
I felt pretty old when I bought a Yamaha at a thrift store for $30 just to finally have HDMI ports. That's actually how long I waited to stop using the old Denon...
 
Insane Metal said:
It's the 3 ones in that kit that are somewhat inclined. He doesn't want the speakers in his furniture for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

He may be better off just buying a higher end sound bar like JBL's Bar 800 or Bar 1000, which are actually quite solid. In-ceiling speakers are compromised by design. They're typically much less capable than other form factors (you'll be lucky to achieve bass down to 150-200Hz without some serious backer boxes installed) and they have serious issues producing a linear frequency response by nature of firing their sound way off the listening axis, combined with diffraction errors from the pseudo-concentric designs most of them use that suspends the tweeter atop the woofer with some plastic scaffolding. While the angled versions improve the listening axis problem somewhat, they introduce larger diffraction errors (nulls at certain frequencies) which is caused by the dome/can shape they're recessed into reflecting sound back into the emitting sound. They're fine for Atmos speakers and semi-tolerable (though no ideal) for surrounds cause those channels typically layer on ambience effects and reverb, but it's strongly recommended you avoid them for mains. If he's coming from TV speakers he may still be really impressed by them, but you would absolutely find them significantly inferior to a pair of traditional box speakers like the JBL Stage A130 which appears to be comparably priced in your region (Brazil?).
 
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