Shuggananas
Banned
It's a bit cheaper, definitely not massively cheaper though. Got a good PC with a 970 for around 1000
HTC Vive is $799, ships early April 2016
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It's a bit cheaper, definitely not massively cheaper though. Got a good PC with a 970 for around 1000
I like that attitude. Just pre-ordered a Rift the other day for July shipping... now I'm contemplating cancelling that and pre-ordering a Vive next week. Decisions, decisions...
Dreamwriter
Member
Say what? Oculus CV1 brings a higher resolution, faster refresh, better screen and optics, less wasted pixels due to two screens instead of one shared screen, a larger "sweet spot" in the center of each eye, no screen door effect, it's lighter/more comfortable, built-in high quality headphones, microphone, and built-in physical IPD adjustment. It's vastly better than DK2 in every way. Vive does have slightly better tracking, you are correct, but Rift can continue to track your head when you are fully turned away from the camera while Vive requires a lighthouse behind you for the same effect (admittedly, that's how they recommend people place their lighthouses, mounted high up on the walls in opposite corners of the room).
Vive is great, but saying that the Oculus Rift is only a tiny bit better than the Oculus DK2 dev kit is quite an exaggeration.
Perhaps in your imaginary world where things work just like you imagine them to work then it would be a good idea to order from Germany. Assuming i ignore the good and long warranty service that our local shops offer. I also don't know any German aside from lederhosen.
Continuing with the imagination theme... You seem to make a lot of assumptions regarding me speaking of the price problem as being generic or personal? Dude, it's a gadget not your kid.
Plus, when you build yourself a good PC, you don't benefit from that just with VR, but with all the nice games that take advantage of it plus the other games which Durante fixes.
I didn't say you should buy from Germany, I was just making a comparison and saying that I'm sorry that you don't have more decent priced shops in Finland.
I didn't say you should buy from Germany, I was just making a comparison and saying that I'm sorry that you don't have more decent priced shops in Finland.
The fact that it's July shipping would have me swapping to team Vive if I could get it earlier.
I really hope I can get an April one. I'm going to be a right annoying bastard to all those around me if not.
Astral/H3X
Member
"IMO". I have a dk2. I don't mind the optics, and yes, the screen is better in a number of ways. But, those are all iterative improvements.
But when I use my DK2, I don't find myself itching for a faster display, higher red, or any of that. I have the itch to walk and move around and grab and toss and interact.
Vive does that. And Lighthouse destroys the camera tracking. So yes, IMO, Rift CV only brings a better screen.
Oh and I have my own headphones, I don't care about the built in ones.
Room scale Rift will need two cameras. Two more USB devices that will need wores running to them. Lighthouse only needs a wall outlet, and won't need to be plugged into the PC. Not to mention more responsive, and its *standard*, not an optional attachment.
Eh, it's not all winners. I just can't justify buying a new card and a Oculus or Vive. I'm sure that covers a lot of people.
super-heated plasma
Member
All they had to do was say a copy of Half Life 3 comes with it, and it would fly off the shelves. Missed opportunity.
Astral/H3X
Member
Your post solidifies "its all winners". We have the Vive and Rift for people who can, and PSVR for those that can't.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Wish I could afford one since it turns out my new apartment would work alright for room scale but, as my current budget is, even the Rift is technically about $100 more than I should be spending (but I'm getting it anyway). I'll probably wait until 2nd gen before I go for the highest end solution.
How is the Rift overpriced when it's being sold at basically cost?
How is the Rift overpriced when it's being sold at basically cost?
Astral/H3X
Member
Speak for yourself. I was quite happy about the price. Cheaper than I expected.
Dreamwriter
Member
Standard first person shooters are not good for VR, they will unfortunately give people motion sickness.
but you suggested the posters' personal situation is not representative of a generic one. But for many it is - maybe not to the extent the quoted poster says, but still a lot more than the US
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
While I do agree with the every generation basis of thee arguments, phones that work easily with one ecosystem have been conditioned to be a necessity that are subsidized through contracts or interest free financing without one, VR is not. Very disingenuous argument.
TerryLee81
Member
How much space is needed for the tracking? Do you need an 'empty' living room or is it possible to stand between couch and TV?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Not disingenuous at all. All of those phones were under the same situation.
lol at all the iPhone wannabees.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So it is saying that Vive is going to be the runaway one, and not the brand/PS4 which is basically the Apple of home consoles dominance, only cheaper?
It still does not make sense, lol.
I mean shit, these do not even work right now on any Apple products.
And I am on the VR Hype Train, have been for 20+ years! Finally consumer models!
Dreamwriter
Member
The smallest "room scale" tracking area is 2 meters by 1.5 meters - basically enough room to stand in one spot and swing your arms around without bashing them into things, maybe take a step forward or back now and then. There are a few different room sizes you can choose from when setting it up. The device does allow non-room-scale usage sitting down or just standing in one place, though that will limit the games you can play.
Astral/H3X
Member
I'm purely speaking on a personal value level, as many are with the "Vive should cost as much as the Rift because reasons" narrative. The CV Rift doesn't really offer me anything I care about over the DK2, certainly not enough to justify $600. TBH I plan on seeing if DK2 will work with CV Rift games for the few exclusives that I might end up caring about/exist.
It scales from seated or standing, to room-scale. You do not need much room at all if you want to do seated or standing; just enough space to extend your arms. Room-scale goes from 6.5ft x 5ft, and can scale all the way to 15ft x 15ft if you want
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So it is saying that Vive is going to be the runaway one, and not the brand/PS4 which is basically the Apple of home consoles dominance, only cheaper?
It still does not make sense, lol.
I mean shit, these do not even work right now on any Apple products.
And I am on the VR Hype Train, have been for 20+ years! Finally consumer models!
Well I thought that person's point is, the highest price doesn't equal disaster. That I agree with.
But you make a great point too. It's all up in the air right now.
family_guy
Member
Subsidization of phones is a thing of the past for the most part. However it is easier to swallow when you're paying $200 upfront or $30 a month in installment payments. I think the latter is what's going to help out alot with making sure VR takes off for the masses. Facebook's probably in a position to offer an installment plan option for the Rift. HTC probably can't afford to do this for Vive.
AstroNut325
Member
Actually, that tweet references actual arguments many people put forth in 2007 after the first iPhone announcement. Many people expected it to fail and fail hard simply due to the iPhone having the highest price in the segment.
The point is that price alone isnt always the determinant of success. I agree with that. How that applies to VR is to be determined.
Roitorb
Member
That's just a guess. Not fact
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If they do subsidize these with some sort of payment plan, then these will take off ten-fold I imagine. Yes I know they are targeting an enthusiast demographic first, however, that does not mean they do not want to make money, and would not mind, at all, a mainstream crowd. All businesses want market saturation with their products. Hence why Facebook purchased OR, and is funding them so hard. Facebook is as mainstream as it gets.
They could also offer some sorta of payment structure since Facebook has it built in now for businesses and people who want to promote for exposure. As can Valve with Steam, and Sony with online store (if it is to be just as expensive, but I do not see it more than $400-450 max).
On the one hand, I'm fine with that price. I've tried various VR headsets going back 20 years now, and $799 for what appears to be a highly capable system is really, really good compared to what you got for a far higher cost even very recently.
On the other, it's first consumer revision for what appears to be a high competition field. There are very, *very* few companies I trust with first revision hardware, and with as many companies as there are putting out VR gear I'd rather not jump on one until the dust has settled.
I wonder what sort of internal roadmap they have for this thing and how the tech will evolve. I have to wish 'Good Luck' to HTC, as they need something good for the company - their phone business has fallen off a cliff.
On the other, it's first consumer revision for what appears to be a high competition field. There are very, *very* few companies I trust with first revision hardware, and with as many companies as there are putting out VR gear I'd rather not jump on one until the dust has settled.
I wonder what sort of internal roadmap they have for this thing and how the tech will evolve. I have to wish 'Good Luck' to HTC, as they need something good for the company - their phone business has fallen off a cliff.
Give War A Chance
Member
Good price, for what it costs, considering the Occulus price.
...however, terrible price for me, the consumer. No Occulus, no Vive for me. PSVR, you're my last hope.
...however, terrible price for me, the consumer. No Occulus, no Vive for me. PSVR, you're my last hope.
That's good although I don't really care about this feature right now, I think I can make with the space. My question is then; does that mean the cable running from the head unit will be really long? I'm really stuck on which one to get. Though I think at this point I'll buy whichever one ships it to me first and that looks like the Vive in April as opposed to Rift in July
Astral/H3X
Member
While yes, I believe the cables are rather long, you don't really need to worry about it when you can easily just velcro roll up the excess behind the computer.
I quite clearly said, "In my opinion". The DK2 costed me $350, and as far as I know should work with final games. No, I haven't seen word saying that it will, but I haven't seen that it won't either, and I don't know if there are any features that would break compatibility. IMO, a better screen is not worth a $250 jump, and ultimately that's what the consumer Rift presents itself to me as.
I do not want to downplay how much better the screen is -- 90FPS with very low latency is very impressive, and costs a boatload I'm sure. But the Vive is MUCH more attractive, as it actually addresses the issues I *did* have with the DK2, as I personally did not mind the screen quality.
Standard Lighthouse tracking however is worth the price to me.
RadioactiveLobster
Member
Looking good so far.
Rolling up the excess isn't the potential problem. It's that if I were to use the room scale, I'd need to walk around behind the computer and desk into the area that has the space for movement. So that would maybe take up a little space for me? I'm not really sure. Though all I want to do is play Elite and Project Cars and other cockpit type games so /shrug it's not really a problem. I'd imagine I could get away with a little extension cable if it came to that too.
Well I suspect the Vive will have the same issues as the Rift, where they won't meet demand and will be sold out for a while.
From what I was told, the consumer version will have a very long flat cord. DK1 was very long but kind of thick. From my 2hrs with the DK1 Vive, the cable is no where near as big of an issue as I'd assumed. I think this is in part because you are not doing massive fast movements with your feet. At least for the DK1, there is a pretty good sense of where the cable is, and when ever I felt it move over to a side I didn't want it or brush my foot, I'd just brush it to where I wanted.
Generally my thoughts are that people will probably attempt room-scale for novelty, then see what a big difference the sensation is to be able to play full in 360 degrees and move even just a little bit so naturally. That may well be enough to have people happy to shuffle a room a little to do it more frequently as I think I would now. Despite all that, there is no absolute necessity to use room-scale. One of the massive draws to the Vive is not being restricted to playing with purely forward facing experiences and having hand presence, which is just fucking great when standing and naturally interacting around yourself. I'm not a fan of being seated stuff when you want to quickly turn, outside of cockpit games, since it feels wrong. My natural inclination is to interact, turn and stand. I think people will see this become very obvious when they try tracked controllers and games with hand presence.
You sound foolish. The headset is the lightest on the market, much more comfortable and ergonomic, has much higher quality lenses, has integrated 3D audio, dual screens with a higher refresh rate, physical IPD adjustment, built in mic, larger camera tracking volume and more accurate tracking in general (just as good as Vive within it's range, which is 30 horizontal degrees less than one lighthouse station, equal in vertical). It's a massive improvement over DK2.
Vive will be the best overall package you can buy, but the Rift will to be the best HMD you can buy.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Wait for 2nd or 3rd gen on all this vr shit.
which I hate
Why can't there be one clear winner? I think I'm leaning towards OR for the better headset, and then I keep my fingers crossed that they come up with a solid tracking solution for oculus touch - they have an extra 6 months to get close to Vive. I'd be happy with the low end of room scale - eg a 2x2 or 3x3m space.
Bl4ckSunsh1n3
Member
The Vive is the one I want most of the three but, I'm not going to be an early adopter of VR. Once there is a killer app/game that I think is a must have for me is when I'll jump.
Huh. Didn't know this. Ironically this makes the Vive better for tracking in smaller spaces.
Stiler
Member
You REALLY are trying hard to make it appear the VB was never marketed as a 3d-product or any kind of VR experience.
Their tag line was 3d-games for a 3d-world. They talked up and down about the 3d-graphics , things so real you could "reach out and grab them" and everything.
If you think the viewfinder was simply to "block out distractions" then the same could be said for any type of headset, the point is to focus you on the screen without having things taking you out of the experience. It's right in the first word that you somehow left out, "Immerse yourself."
Miyamoto even mentions Nintendo working with VR and uses the VB as an example , I guess he's moronic as well isn't he and didn't understand that VB wasn't meant for that and that the 3ds wasn't geared to that in some way?
Miyamoto:
"Weve been doing our own experiments with virtual reality dating back to the Virtual Boy. And even to some degree, the 3DS was designed with a little bit of this in mind with its stereoscopic 3D. So were always looking at hardware and assessing whats possible."
Yes it was capable of providing that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBP0q_kNdMY
Not nearly as good as Vive/Rift but it was capable if you know what you were doing.
I'd like to know how, if people think that the VB wasn't marketed or built toward a VR experience or that people didn't see it as a VR machine.
You bring up VR and the 90's and think people don't picture the VB? The VB is ingrained into peoples minds as VR and how it failed, VB set VR back when it was releasead with it's terrible red color and headache inducing ability.
Not nearly as good as the later VR arcade machines that came about (with motion tracking).
Guardian Monkey
Member
Having had the DK2. The weight of the Vive worries me, Lighter makes all the difference. i just ordered a Rift too with July shipping. I'll wait on it rather than jump ship on the Vive.
I was in the same boat and just decided to go for after staying on the fence. There is always going to be a better version. But yeah the killer app isnt there I guess for some. The VR headset is like the new videocard, there will always be another one around the corner.
Yeah that's from what I've read going to be the price of the PSVR HMD alone and not the other accessories such as the tracking camera, 2 controllers, and the Processing Unit.
So I don't know if they really want to sell all that at a loss which they've stated before that they don't want too. Unless it's included for free which I will be surprised as fuck if that's the case.
Each lighthouse needs a power outlet. That's it.
Oh wow, this is gonna be much easier than I thought. Thanks!
habithipster
Member
With the Vive recommended setup you have 360 degree headset+controller tracking, with the Rift recommended setup not so much. When asked about 360 degree tracking Palmer Luckey seems evasive. Developers say 360 degree, head-to-toe 2x2m room-scale tracking in Rift+Touch is practically not possible and are altering their games from 360 degree motion controls to 180 degree for the Touch version.
One could argue that as a VR experience, when compared to Vive, the Rift headset alone is only a tiny bit better than the DK2. The magic of tracked hands and being able to take a step or two in either direction can not be overstated.
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