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[artsi]

Just because of the 10-15 paid-by-Oculus games? I don't see it.

For me that is a factor as they seem more interesting, and my favourite sims (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Digital Combat Simulator, Project Cars) supporting only Rift at the moment. They're free to integrate Vive support but no word about that yet.

If I was ready to wait until they can do something about it I would not have pre-ordered, but I want a nice library right at launch.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

For me that is a factor as they seem more interesting, and my favourite sims (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Digital Combat Simulator, Project Cars) supporting only Rift at the moment. They're free to integrate Vive support but no word about that yet.

If I was ready to wait until they can do something about it I would not have pre-ordered, but I want a nice library right at launch.

Just a thought: You don't buy a game console because of launch games of mediocre quality. You buy a console based on the outlook and projections for support of big games. I would take the same approach with these headsets.

Cute launch titles are cool, but it's all about the mid and long range prospects. In that context, everyone will be eating well.

For me, as long as Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen works, I don't really give a shit about anything else for the foreseeable future.

 

[Arulan]

It's explicitly forbidden for other HW platforms to implement the Rift API, while it is encouraged with the OpenVR API.
I don't think that qualifies as equally open.

Valve, through OpenVR is even supporting their chaperone system (the original feature set due to lack of front-facing camera) on the Oculus Rift.

As cakefoo pointed out, Steam already filters and shows you VR support information, including the Oculus Rift.

I think it's very clear the differences of what open means between Valve and Oculus.

 

[artsi]

Just a thought: You don't buy a game console because of launch games of mediocre quality. You buy a console based on the outlook and projections for support of big games. I would take the same approach with these headsets.

I'm sure all significant games will come to the Rift, so all is fine and good. I'm more worried about what games I'll grind in VR this summer, not any of the currently announced room scale games for sure.

 

[Smushroomed]

anyone know the exact time PST when pre-orders go up on he 29th?

 

[Arulan]

anyone know the exact time PST when pre-orders go up on he 29th?

They said 10AM EST, so 7AM PST.

 

[BigTnaples]

They said 10AM EST, so 7AM PST.

Nice. I work nightshift so this means I should be able to snag one when I get off.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

It's explicitly forbidden for other HW platforms to implement the Rift API, while it is encouraged with the OpenVR API.
I don't think that qualifies as equally open.

Thats actually fucking shitty...

I really wonder what happened to Palmers "For VR to succeed it must be open."

Spoiler

Answer: Facebook.

 

[Just_myles]

I can understand the price. The controllers with the two positional trackers are well worth the cost let me assure you. I would pay(if I could) that much money for an actual virtual playing space.

 

[ashecitism]

several redditors say they talked with HTC support: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/47edbc/htc_support_said_shipping_address_and_billing/

shipping and billing address must be the same
they will check if you have enough money, other guy says they will charge you right away

edit: HTC's VP of VR said on twitter shipping and billing address don't have to be the same. Wasn't asked about the latter.

 

[bmcphail2008]

several redditors say they talked with HTC support: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/47edbc/htc_support_said_shipping_address_and_billing/

shipping and billing address must be the same
they will charge you right away

Incorrect. According to your link, they will do a pre-authorization and then charge the full amount upon shipping. A pre-authorization is not charging you right away unless you're talking about Paypal or a debit card.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

several redditors say they talked with HTC support: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/47edbc/htc_support_said_shipping_address_and_billing/

shipping and billing address must be the same
they will charge you right away

Just a hold, so not interest will be charged if you pay on a credit card until they ship it and then take the money.

 

[ashecitism]

another guy in the thread says they'll charge you

2:41:54 PM Agent: The cost will be charged As soon as you make the preorder.

2:42:24 PM Customer: are you positive that the cost will be charged during preorder process? It will not ship for another month past that point. Where are you getting this information from?

2:44:45 PM Agent: Yes the entire amount will be charged during the Preorder Howard.

2:44:55 PM Agent: That is internal Information.

 

[dorn.]

So when will we see euro pricing? At pre-order? Doesn't bode well...

 

[BigTnaples]

If that's the case that's kind of shitty.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Man we are going to see some serious Ebay scalping with these Rift's and Vive's.

 

[bmcphail2008]

another guy in the thread says they'll charge you

HTC's store is run by Digital River in the US and according to the information on the store page, for physical items, they do not charge until they ship. While it's possible they will not follow this printed policy in connection with the Vive, until they release information to the contrary, those contradicting reps who probably have no information either way should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[UrbanRats]

So when will we see euro pricing? At pre-order? Doesn't bode well...

Yeah i expect the worst.
I already came to terms with the idea that i won't be pre-ordering this.

 

[Alo81]

I fully expect that someone will make a wrapper that makes most any VR game universally applicable.

The Vive price with controllers is incredibly enticing.

 

[Glix]

Thats... a hefty price tag.

I'd pay that for some kind of stand alone device... but for a peripheral, thats kinda rough.

I'm not saying its not worth that, etc etc...

 

[Alo81]

Thats... a hefty price tag.

I'd pay that for some kind of stand alone device... but for a peripheral, thats kinda rough.

I'm not saying its not worth that, etc etc...

I see it more like a new platform. Games properly developed for VR won't be playable anywhere else, or at the least won't be experienced the same.

 

[Nzyme32]

I fully expect that someone will make a wrapper that makes most any VR game universally applicable.

The Vive price with controllers is incredibly enticing.

It's practically guaranteed that some one will make a wrapper. It's just a matter of when

 

[artsi]

Thats actually fucking shitty...

I really wonder what happened to Palmers "For VR to succeed it must be open."

Spoiler

Answer: Facebook.

Naturally. Oculus is now in a completely different position when they have Facebook behind them.

I understand having an open source boner, I get it and I also support open software. But I don't see Valve having a choice here, they need to support the Rift.

Let me explain my view:

The situation is that there's a huge new industry booming and Facebook has decided that they want to dominate it.
They have already spent billions to acquire Oculus, establish new R&D facilities, fund games for their platform, sell their HMD at cost and it seems like they're ready to do a lot more to ensure their position as the leader.

Facebook has millions of Gear VR's (with a large Oculus logo displayed on the unit) on the way to Samsung customers, we talk how we want VR to succeed and be available to mainstream but they're already there. Even here in my tiny country I can walk to any major phone retailer and get me a Gear VR from the stock. They're also going in hard for social VR which will be huge.

Valve's current partner HTC is a tiny fly compared to both Facebook and Samsung, they're also in deep financial troubles.
What if HTC decides that Vive is not profitable enough? They can't afford to keep it going for long without profits, maybe not even develop another HMD. Valve would be fucked if they need to start again with another manufacturer, and they know it so they're betting on software + maximum compatibility of SteamVR.

Even if they have good tech Facebook has the money and the world's largest marketing channels in their control. Zuckerberg personally can write just one post and he reaches over 52 million people instantly. I would say they have a huge edge, even without room scale or touch controls during launch.

Considering all these facts it's just smart for Valve to also support the Rift because they're in the business of selling software, they already dominate the games marketplace via Steam. But even with that on their belt it'll be difficult to win Facebook in the HMD war. Better prepare for possible defeat on that front and try to make the best out of it by ensuring marketplace leadership via Steam.

BTW remember when Steam launched and people didn't like how Valve tied HL2 and CS:S to it? They had the means to gain userbase / brand recognition and used them, like Facebook is doing now. It's all just business in the end.

TL;DR: The actual battle here is Oculus Store vs Steam, as someone said before. On that front Valve can actually compete so it'll be their focus.

Also if people think that Facebook doesn't have anything open source and is pure evil, see:
https://code.facebook.com/projects/

 

[cakefoo]

HTC's store is run by Digital River in the US

Surely that must be a typo. That can't be the same Digital River...

http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/24/39...tion-distributor-oversold-stock-canceling-pre

Please no...

 

[Bboy AJ]

Do I have to worry about hardware exclusives? Don't all VR games on Steam work on both Rift and Vive? I have a Rift preorder but prefer Vive. Am I good in just buying one VR device?

Obviously excepting PSVR.

 

[BigTnaples]

Do I have to worry about hardware exclusives? Don't all VR games on Steam work on both Rift and Vive? I have a Rift preorder but prefer Vive. Am I good in just buying one VR device?

Obviously excepting PSVR.

Pretty certain games will run on both. Not 100%, but fairly certain.

 

[ashecitism]

HTC's VP of VR said on twitter shipping and billing address don't have to be the same.

 

[Mikeside]

Do I have to worry about hardware exclusives? Don't all VR games on Steam work on both Rift and Vive? I have a Rift preorder but prefer Vive. Am I good in just buying one VR device?

Obviously excepting PSVR.

You won't be able to play any room scale games but other than that should be fine

 

[zdenko1]

Anyone has idea if I'll need to have all 800$ in my bank account when pre-ordering or just when it ships?

 

[mrklaw]

Do I have to worry about hardware exclusives? Don't all VR games on Steam work on both Rift and Vive? I have a Rift preorder but prefer Vive. Am I good in just buying one VR device?

Obviously excepting PSVR.

Steam,games should, providing you have the kit needed - eg no room scale or motion control games will work on OR.

But there will also be an oculus store and several games there will be exclusive to OR as the development is being funded by oculus (eg Luckey's tale or the insomniac game), or some exclusivity has been negotiated (eve Valkyrie)

 

[hateradio]

Anyone has idea if I'll need to have all 800$ in my bank account when pre-ordering or just when it ships?

Unless you want to have a negative balance, I'm sure you do.

 

[artsi]

Anyone has idea if I'll need to have all 800$ in my bank account when pre-ordering or just when it ships?

The posts above you indicate that yes, they're charging when placing the pre-order. But no confirmation yet.

 

[cakefoo]

The posts above you indicate that yes, they're charging when placing the pre-order. But no confirmation yet.

Most preorder situations are, you place the order, you get an authorization charge for the purchase amount, and a few days later the charge is dropped.

 

[Impulsor]

You won't be able to play any room scale games but other than that should be fine

You will. Valve has stated they will make room scale and chaperone compatible with Rift.

HERE

 

[Mikeside]

You will. Valve has stated they will make room scale and chaperone compatible with Rift.

HERE

Sure, at some point, but the Rift CV1 doesn't DO room scale or motion, right?

Well, it'll do motion when Oculus Touch comes out

 

[artsi]

Sure, at some point, but the Rift CV1 doesn't DO room scale or motion, right?

Well, it'll do motion when Oculus Touch comes out

Well there's no reason to have chaperone without room scale, so Valve is indicating that the Rift will (unofficially) support room scale when Touch is released.

It might have occlusion problems without additional cameras, but basically it should work with the SteamVR titles.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Bit OT, but does PSVR need the PlayStation Camera?

 

[Mikeside]

Bit OT, but does PSVR need the PlayStation Camera?

yeah but we don't know if it'll be bundled yet

 

[Impulsor]

Sure, at some point, but the Rift CV1 doesn't DO room scale or motion, right?

Well, it'll do motion when Oculus Touch comes out

As soon as oculus touch controllers are released, the Oculus Rift CV1 will have motion and will be able to do room scale, whenever Valve implement it for the rift.

For the occlusion problems you can get more cameras.

 

[mrklaw]

Well there's no reason to have chaperone without room scale, so Valve is indicating that the Rift will (unofficially) support room scale when Touch is released.

It might have occlusion problems without additional cameras, but basically it should work with the SteamVR titles.

They actually said they should support chaperone and room scale (with limited size) with just the rift. Then they'd add in motion controllers and being able to draw the bounding area when Touch comes out.

In theory that should be doable if you have enough space - the Rift camera has something like a 90 degree field of view horizontally and an 18ft range so you should be able to have a zone around the size of the Vive standing or 'small' room tracking by staying within the cone of the Rift camera field of view. You'd likely need to be maybe 5-6ft back from the camera to be able to stand comfortably, so a zone starting about 6ft back from the camera, extending to 12ft should give you enough room to move about a small amount. The LEDs on the back of the Rift headset should reduce risk of occlusion when facing away (to a limited amount)

I suppose the irony would be that you'd need more physical space than the vive requires as you'd need to be further away from the rift camera to be in shot all the time.

 

[Impulsor]

I need to know the full price of the VIVE in Europe, with VAT and all that, because if it's like the rift, that is 600 $ in the US and 741 € over here... I assume the VIVE will cost up to 1000 €

 

[Memorabilia]

Too expensive for anything approaching mainstream adoption. But they're not trying for that with Gen 1. On the bright side, I expected it to be a lot more. Relative to the Rift this is actually a better deal considering the hardware is better and more versatile.

I haven't decided which (if any) of the Gen 1 sets I'm going to pick up, but the Rift feels a bit like the middle child here, with Sony bringing up the more affordable low end and Valve offering the elite version for not much more. I guess as always it'll boil down to which one has the best games (or at least the games I'm most interested in). If Valve were to surprise with a VR exclusive of Portal 3 or Left 4 Dead 3 it'd be difficult to resist.

 

[spekkeh]

It was my understanding that the constellation system the Rift uses can be expanded or added too, so any room scale stuff could easily be added on in the future.

I guess they could add extra peripherals, but it would stay outside-in instead of inside-out tracking.

 

[Mikeside]

Too expensive for anything approaching mainstream adoption. But they're not trying for that with Gen 1. On the bright side, I expected it to be a lot more. Relative to the Rift this is actually a better deal considering the hardware is better and more versatile.

I haven't decided which (if any) of the Gen 1 sets I'm going to pick up, but the Rift feels a bit like the middle child here, with Sony bringing up the more affordable low end and Valve offering the elite version for not much more. I guess as always it'll boil down to which one has the best games (or at least the games I'm most interested in). If Valve were to surprise with a VR exclusive of Portal 3 or Left 4 Dead 3 it'd be difficult to resist.

That's the thing, though. Valve aren't going to do that because it's in their interest as a storefront (which, let's be honest, they almost entirely are, rather than anything else) to keep VR open so it doesn't matter what headset you have, you can consume the games.

I'm happy about it, for the most part, but it would be nice to see Oculus do the same thing & be happy with taking a cut of the profits by selling their games to everybody on their store.

Of course, Oculus aren't primarily a storefront, so I can see why this is the way it's going down.


I just really hope Valve doesn't hit the DICKHEAD button and prove me wrong by pushing exclusives in the future

 

[artsi]

I'm happy about it, for the most part, but it would be nice to see Oculus do the same thing & be happy with taking a cut of the profits by selling their games to everybody on their store.

Of course, Oculus aren't primarily a storefront, so I can see why this is the way it's going down.

For us consumers that would be the best. But looking at their vast investments Facebook aims to have the whole VR industry, software sales alone would be too small for them to have proper returns.

They might open up after they've established a firm position as the market leader, but this part of the race is brutal and everything says they're going to use all means necessary to win.

 

[Mikeside]

For us consumers that would be the best. But looking at their vast investments Facebook aims to have the whole VR industry, software sales alone would be too small for them to have proper returns.

They might open up after they've established a firm position as the market leader, but this part of the race is brutal and everything says they're going to use all means necessary to win.

Which is exactly why I was pissed when Facebook acquired Oculus. That wasn't supposed to be the mission plan.

 

[zdenko1]

The posts above you indicate that yes, they're charging when placing the pre-order. But no confirmation yet.

Thanks guys. I'm really hyped but I will probably order it from local retailer as I can pay on shipping date. That 29th February is really unfortunate for me as it is end of month.

 

[Zaptruder]

A 27" IPS G-Sync monitor cannot transport you to another world...

Seriously... I've been standing around with my Gear VR, consuming essentially what are low-end VR experiences - 360 (not even stereo) photospheres...

And shit is just compelling. Even if its not robustly presence inducing, it literally allows you to view things in a different and much more compelling way.

I travelled to tokyo, macau, paris, tokyo again and again, and various apartments, singapore, etc - without stepping out of my room tonight.

Spoiler

Also 'got into a threesome' with 2 super hotties

 

[Dreamwriter]

That's the thing, though. Valve aren't going to do that because it's in their interest as a storefront (which, let's be honest, they almost entirely are, rather than anything else) to keep VR open so it doesn't matter what headset you have, you can consume the games.

I'm happy about it, for the most part, but it would be nice to see Oculus do the same thing & be happy with taking a cut of the profits by selling their games to everybody on their store.

Of course, Oculus aren't primarily a storefront, so I can see why this is the way it's going down.


I just really hope Valve doesn't hit the DICKHEAD button and prove me wrong by pushing exclusives in the future

Keep in mind that the key thing keeping Oculus Rift games as exclusives is their SDK, which is quite a bit more powerful and refined than OpenVR. It's not like they are only doing exclusives to be dicks Also, the true exclusives are ones that Oculus themselves are paying to have made so that the Rift will have a good selection of titles at launch (but even those, they've said they'd be fine with consumers hacking the games to run on Vive).

 

[Monger]

They actually said they should support chaperone and room scale (with limited size) with just the rift. Then they'd add in motion controllers and being able to draw the bounding area when Touch comes out.

In theory that should be doable if you have enough space - the Rift camera has something like a 90 degree field of view horizontally and an 18ft range so you should be able to have a zone around the size of the Vive standing or 'small' room tracking by staying within the cone of the Rift camera field of view. You'd likely need to be maybe 5-6ft back from the camera to be able to stand comfortably, so a zone starting about 6ft back from the camera, extending to 12ft should give you enough room to move about a small amount. The LEDs on the back of the Rift headset should reduce risk of occlusion when facing away (to a limited amount)

I suppose the irony would be that you'd need more physical space than the vive requires as you'd need to be further away from the rift camera to be in shot all the time.

The cameras themselves pose a setup issue, but then you also have the shorter cables to contend with and the fact that they plug directly into your computer. I'd imagine you'd want some sort of extensions with an easier release on them so you can't ruin your graphics card if you get carried away or trip over something at the end of it's length.