HTC Vive is $799, ships early April 2016

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Fwiw, I used the first edition of the HTC Vive when they did their summer tour. I had it on + headphones for ~15-20 minutes and the second it was on my head it was like there was nothing there at all. Even at it's heaviest, I didn't realize it was on me.
 
Zaptruder said:
Seriously... I've been standing around with my Gear VR, consuming essentially what are low-end VR experiences - 360 (not even stereo) photospheres...

And shit is just compelling. Even if its not robustly presence inducing, it literally allows you to view things in a different and much more compelling way.

I travelled to tokyo, macau, paris, tokyo again and again, and various apartments, singapore, etc - without stepping out of my room tonight.

Also 'got into a threesome' with 2 super hotties
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I get my free samsung GEAR VR with my edge S7 in a week and a bit, how does it compare to Oculus DK2? (if you have tried it)

I have one of those and im interested what experiences you can do on the gear VR.
 
ashecitism said:
Redditor asked German HTC twitter about when the € price will be shared. They said when pre-orders go live: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/47pplj/german_htc_twitter_says_price_will_be_announced/
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I feel that we euro people gonna get fucked.

mJwJV3b.gif
 
Nugg said:
Actually, it depends much more on the balance than on the weight.
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If you sit still, but with VR games you'll be moving your head around and more weight will definitely be bad with prolonged usage.

With the head straight up in normal position it's fine, but think about tilting your head to any direction and then adding 500-1000 grams of weight on it. It will require more strength to keep it there or lift it back up = more strain.

I'm not saying 555g will make necks break or anything, it's not that bad but the goal should be as less weight as possible.
 
artsi said:
I feel that we euro people gonna get fucked.

mJwJV3b.gif
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I dunno, the official price was 689 pound in the UK I believe, which converts to 875 euro, round it off to 899 euro, still a fair price for what you get imo

the rift ended up at 700 euro in europe, so its all pretty close.

jabberwocker said:
Do headphones plug into the vive? Or is this another cord that will go to you head?
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Plugs into the headset.

For the Rift, as I am aware, if you don't use the build in headphones, there is no way to plug your own headphones into the rift headset itself, it needs to be plugged into your pc, so you will have an extra cable.
 
EVIL said:
I dunno, the official price was 689 pound in the UK I believe, which converts to 875 euro, round it off to 899 euro, still a fair price for what you get imo

the rift ended up at 700 euro in europe, so its all pretty close.



Plugs into the headset.

For the Rift, as I am aware, if you don't use the build in headphones, there is no way to plug your own headphones into the rift headset itself, it needs to be plugged into your pc, so you will have an extra cable.
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Why wouldnt you want to use the built in headphones though?
 
H3XAntiStyle said:
I imagine anyone with headphones that cost more than $40 will probably want to use their own pair.
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I would not be so sure. Palmer has said to be an audiophile and that the headphones are decent.

Q: As a self-professed audiophile, how would you rank the integrated audio solution alongside entry-level audiophile headphones like the ATH-M50x, or the HD 598s?

A: Favorably. They are open-back drivers with pretty accurate response and a great soundstage. Somewhat similar to ATH-AD700s.
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We control the entire pipeline. The Rift has a built in DAC and amp. Everything is high quality, from the Audio SDK to DAC to amp to the driver modules themselves.
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Most VR developers are tuning their audio for the including DAC+amp+driver system, and that is also what we optimize our Audio SDK around. You won't get the benefits of that if you use your own, but you can do it. The answer honestly depends on the coloring and soundstage of your exact setup, I can't give you a general answer on how well they will align.
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I might use my own DAC + HD650's in the end but I'm excited to try how the integrated ones perform.
ATH-AD700 are almost 200€ here so not from the cheapest end.

With the Vive I would most likely opt for any other cans, these look pretty much like any standard earbuds phones, etc. come with and I feel that's something HTC has spared expenses with.
 
H3XAntiStyle said:
Because maybe, like a lot of people, you are very particular about your headphones and have a pair that you like more.

I imagine anyone with headphones that cost more than $40 will probably want to use their own pair.
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Maybe, I have a pair of dt880s which are more than $40, but I am not going to put them on with a vr headset. Weight makes a difference. I have used them with my dk2 and I preferred not to have the extra weight or size to deal with. Smaller form factor and less weight makes a difference. I think earbuds are the way to go here imo.
 
I have ATH-M50s and I'd go with the integrated audio before I use them. It's a lot of extra weight and they aren't designed for that purpose.
 
Continuing on the subject, a poster over at head-fi.org said he tried the Rift headphones and was pleased.

I obviously can't say anything concrete as it was a demo at an event, but honestly I think it was at least as good as the HD598's audio.

Actually, in a response on Reddit, Palmer Luckey himself said that it was on par with level of quality you would get on something like an AD700. Considering they have full control over the whole audio stack from DAC to driver, it's entirely possible they also have a very even frequency response. I heard honestly surprising amounts of bass from what I remember. The imaging and soundstage was insanely accurate, but that's hard to compare because you also get headtracking, meaning you get more sound localization cues.

Other than sound quality, what separates an integrated audio solution on a VR HMD from just wearing normal headphones on top, is that you get the ultimate comfort. There is minimal to zero clamp on your ears because the force is distributed by the semi-rigid strap system. Imagine if you were never wearing headphones at all and sound magically just came into existence next to your ears. That's how comfortable it is. That also means your brain is much more easily convinced that the sound isn't coming from an artificial source like headphones.
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BTW that's a thread where Palmer originally went for advice back in 2013 when he was designing the HMD, pretty cool.
Audio is certainly not an afterthought on the Rift. Palmer always thought it's very important for immersion.
 
artsi said:
Continuing on the subject, a poster over at head-fi.org said he tried the Rift headphones and was pleased.



BTW that's a thread where Palmer originally went for advice back in 2013 when he was designing the HMD, pretty cool.
Audio is certainly not an afterthought on the Rift. Palmer always thought it's very important for immersion.
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Interesting point he makes about integrated headphone weight not being an issue since it is in the middle. Makes sense.
 
Zaptruder said:
Seriously... I've been standing around with my Gear VR, consuming essentially what are low-end VR experiences - 360 (not even stereo) photospheres...

And shit is just compelling. Even if its not robustly presence inducing, it literally allows you to view things in a different and much more compelling way.

I travelled to tokyo, macau, paris, tokyo again and again, and various apartments, singapore, etc - without stepping out of my room tonight.

Also 'got into a threesome' with 2 super hotties
Click to expand...

If you haven't tried the 3D contest finalists in the 360 photo viewer on the Gear VR, give them a try. There are some really great images/environments in there. Last night I spent about an hour and a half browsing through those 360 static photos. I know what you mean for how compelling they can be but those 3D environments are even more immersive. It has me that much more hyped for PSVR/PCVR when they release. (Although, I realize that these environments are not being animated and rendered in real time.....but it gives a glimpse of what we may have to look forward to in the future)
 
artsi said:
So the Rift weighs 470g (with the integrated headphones), not a radical difference but a bit lighter than Vive's 555g, as we already assumed from the user impressions.

https://gfycat.com/BrilliantHotDamselfly
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If the weight is balanced it doesn't seem to be that significant of a difference considering the 5 kg melon you're putting it on.

Chairmanchuck said:
How much was the DK1? I remember using it and not feeling anything.
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380g I think. I didn't have issues with either of the DKs and they weren't particularly well balanced.
 
The Rift headphones should be around 50-60g but any dedicated headphones will be heavier anyway and sound is a must (unless you're deaf), so the 470g is pretty much the minimum we can have.
Unless you switch the integrated headphones to earbuds, but that's just crazy if they are as good as Palmer says.

Arulan said:
Does anyone know any details of the Vive's audio SDK? The quality of the DAC/Amp? Whether it can drive a HD600?
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I haven't seen any mention about it, just that it has audio. I'm kind of worried that they haven't invested much into it.
 
artsi said:
The Rift headphones should be around 50-60g but any dedicated headphones will be heavier anyway and sound is a must (unless you're deaf), so the 470g is pretty much the minimum we can have.
Unless you switch the integrated headphones to earbuds, but that's just crazy if they are as good as Palmer says.



I haven't seen any mention about it, just that it has audio. I'm kind of worried that they haven't invested much into it.
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c'mon dude, you're being needlessly biased at this point.
 
Mikeside said:
c'mon dude, you're being needlessly biased at this point.
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I admit that for the launch window I'm more excited about the Rift, as the HMD quality / comfort is more important for my use (cockpit games) and there's more existing support during launch.
But Vive is on my purchase list as well, maybe not during the launch as EU prices are still open but we'll see next week. I already spent 1200€ this year upgrading my PC for VR purposes so I want both HMD's to make use of it, and I want to be in on this new thing.

But still, I'm trying to stay within the facts and I haven't seen any detailed talk about the Vive's audio solution, while Palmer has been enthusiastic about the whole audio pipeline. The margins HTC is going for and the generic earbuds Vive ships with don't exactly inspire confidence on that front.

I also read that many SteamVR titles even are using the Oculus Audio SDK as it's pretty good, free to use with any HMD / engine, nice documentation etc.
https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/audiosdk/latest/

If I understood correctly OpenVR itself doesn't offer any spatialized audio solutions, but developers are using either the Oculus Audio SDK or some other third party library.
 
artsi said:
I admit that for the launch window I'm more excited about the Rift, as the HMD quality / comfort is more important for my use (cockpit games) and there's more existing support during launch.
But Vive is on my purchase list as well, maybe not during the launch as EU prices are still open but we'll see next week. I already spent 1200€ this year upgrading my PC for VR purposes so I want both HMD's to make use of it, and I want to be in on this new thing.

But still, I'm trying to stay within the facts and I haven't seen any detailed talk about the Vive's audio solution, while Palmer has been enthusiastic about the whole audio pipeline. The margins HTC is going for and the generic earbuds Vive ships with don't exactly inspire confidence on that front.

I also read that many SteamVR titles even are using the Oculus Audio SDK as it's pretty good, free to use with any HMD / engine, nice documentation etc.
https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/audiosdk/latest/

If I understood correctly OpenVR itself doesn't offer any spatialized audio solutions, but developers are using either the Oculus Audio SDK or some other third party library.
Click to expand...

My guess is that a large portion of the people who are willing to drop $800 + the associated PC costs on a first-gen product would rather just bring their own headphones. It is hard for me to get excited about paying for the Rift's headphones when I already own custom IEMs that cost as much as the entire Rift package.
 
tokkun said:
My guess is that a large portion of the people who are willing to drop $800 + the associated PC costs on a first-gen product would rather just bring their own headphones. It is hard for me to get excited about paying for the Rift's headphones when I already own custom IEMs that cost as much as the entire Rift package.
Click to expand...

I suppose the argument is that for binaural audio, there is a benefit to having that tuned to the specific headphones that are being used, and by bundling them Oculus can control that.
 
artsi said:
I admit that for the launch window I'm more excited about the Rift, as the HMD quality / comfort is more important for my use (cockpit games) and there's more existing support during launch.
But Vive is on my purchase list as well, maybe not during the launch as EU prices are still open but we'll see next week. I already spent 1200€ this year upgrading my PC for VR purposes so I want both HMD's to make use of it, and I want to be in on this new thing.

But still, I'm trying to stay within the facts and I haven't seen any detailed talk about the Vive's audio solution, while Palmer has been enthusiastic about the whole audio pipeline. The margins HTC is going for and the generic earbuds Vive ships with don't exactly inspire confidence on that front.

I also read that many SteamVR titles even are using the Oculus Audio SDK as it's pretty good, free to use with any HMD / engine, nice documentation etc.
https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/audiosdk/latest/

If I understood correctly OpenVR itself doesn't offer any spatialized audio solutions, but developers are using either the Oculus Audio SDK or some other third party library.
Click to expand...

This is a weird situation that I'm sure many of us are in. Vive or OR. On the face of it, it seems silly to be considering spending $1500 getting both, just because one might have better tracking and the other one might be a bit more comfortable. How much more comfortable does it have to be to justify an additional $600 Vs just buying a Vive? (caveat: if you have money to burn, knock yourself out)

Plus all of these impressions are obviously subjective and based on limited exposure via controlled demos etc. Maybe the reality of the comfort/optics is so small you can filter it out readily - we simply don't know and disappointingly I doubt we will know until a few weeks after both have launched and we have a meaningful number of impressions to refer to.
 
mrklaw said:
I suppose the argument is that for binaural audio, there is a benefit to having that tuned to the specific headphones that are being used, and by bundling them Oculus can control that.
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Yeah plus I'd take good integrated headphones over great, separate headphones that introduce another wire and additional weight. I'm going to be taking the HMD off and on frequently and I'd much rather do that in one fell swoop than having to deal with external headphones too. It's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but something I appreciate.
 
mrklaw said:
I suppose the argument is that for binaural audio, there is a benefit to having that tuned to the specific headphones that are being used, and by bundling them Oculus can control that.
Click to expand...

Binaural audio is not tuned to specific headphones. Any stereo headphones/earbuds will produce very similar results. Only real difference is of course the audio quality itself.

Your brain does the actual processing of the sound to produce the positional audio.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
Yeah plus I'd take good integrated headphones over great, separate headphones that introduce another wire and additional weight. I'm going to be taking the HMD off and on frequently and I'd much rather do that in one fell swoop than having to deal with external headphones too. It's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but something I appreciate.
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I can't emphasize enough how much this matters. Using the Rift DK2, I have to first prepare my headphones (so that I can find them with the Rift on my head), put on the Rift, and then put on the headphones. If I need to leave VR for a moment, I have to remember to first take off the headphones and then the Rift. If I mess it up, everything gets tangled. It's also not very comfortable over time.

The integrated audio solution is one of the things I'm really looking forward to after having to deal with the DK2. In my opinion, they made a big mistake with Vive by not including an integrated audio solution.
 
tokkun said:
My guess is that a large portion of the people who are willing to drop $800 + the associated PC costs on a first-gen product would rather just bring their own headphones. It is hard for me to get excited about paying for the Rift's headphones when I already own custom IEMs that cost as much as the entire Rift package.
Click to expand...

I also own headphone equipment worth more than either HMD, but I'd still argue that having at least a good DAC on the HMD is of value, when you can have less wires going to your head from your computer or dedicated DAC. Especially with room scale applications.

mrklaw said:
I suppose the argument is that for binaural audio, there is a benefit to having that tuned to the specific headphones that are being used, and by bundling them Oculus can control that.
Click to expand...

That's what Oculus has been saying at least, no idea how much effect it will actually have.

Xyber said:
Binaural audio is not tuned to specific headphones. Any stereo headphones/earbuds will produce very similar results. Only real difference is of course the audio quality itself.

Your brain does the actual processing of the sound to produce the positional audio.
Click to expand...

I won't pretend to know much about binaural audio (except that it's awesome) but it's somehow related to that the soundstage + distance between the headphone driver and ear is always the same.
So Oculus claims that it allows to generate more accurate sounding binaural audio (like the distance you perceive the sound coming from) on the software side (via Oculus Audio SDK).

But I bet it'll sound awesome either way, as long as it's binaural.

Here's some of their stuff about different devices and how they work with binaural, it's pretty detailed: https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/audiosdk/latest/concepts/audio-intro-devices/

The documentation in whole is pretty interesting regarding VR + audio.
Note that the Oculus Audio SDK doesn't exactly relate to the Rift headphones only, it's a general VR / binaural audio solution made to work with any HMD, engine or headphones.
 
artsi said:
I also own headphone equipment worth more than either HMD, but I'd still argue that having at least a good DAC on the HMD is of value, when you can have less wires going to your head from your computer or dedicated DAC. Especially with room scale applications.



That's what Oculus has been saying at least, no idea how much effect it will actually have.



I won't pretend to know much about binaural audio (except that it's awesome) but it's somehow related to that the soundstage + distance between the headphone driver and ear is always the same.
So Oculus claims that it allows to generate more accurate sounding binaural audio (like the distance you perceive the sound coming from) on the software side (via Oculus Audio SDK).

But I bet it'll sound awesome either way, as long as it's binaural.
Click to expand...

Yeah, knowing the exakt distance of the driver from the ear will of course help to make it more accurate. but the difference in positioning between different kinds of headphones is not very big and will very likely not a have much of an impact at all to how the audio is perceived by the user.

But as you say, binaural is awesome and I'm sad it took VR for it to be more of a thing in games. Stereo audio can be so much better than what we have now. I'm scared just thinking of a horror game in VR that uses binaural audio in a good way.
 
This is probably a really stupid question, but is there anyway VR titles would work over something like Steam Link? I've got my gaming PC setup in my bedroom and there isn't much free space so I wondered about either running cables to a different room or preferably using a steam link (wired) if it was possible.

I've also toyed with the idea of building a second PC, but that seems kind of insane especially when I've already got the costs of an Oculus and Vive to deal with.
 
mrklaw said:
I suppose the argument is that for binaural audio, there is a benefit to having that tuned to the specific headphones that are being used, and by bundling them Oculus can control that.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like a very difficult technical problem to overcome. All you need is an equalizer profile. Frequency response data is publicly available for any high-end pair of headphones, so these profiles could be created by users.

I'm not against the existence of the Oculus headphones, I would just prefer for them to be an optional accessory.

Also, personally I am interested in using VR headsets for non-binaural content as well. I would not be surprised if I spent more time using my headset with music visualizers than with games for the first year.

artsi said:
I also own headphone equipment worth more than either HMD, but I'd still argue that having at least a good DAC on the HMD is of value, when you can have less wires going to your head from your computer or dedicated DAC. Especially with room scale applications.
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I agree with that, but as long as I already have an HDMI cable tethering me to the PC, I don't see the addition of an audio cable as making that much of a difference.
 
Yesterday i got to use the Vive at work. It was the first time for me to ever try out VR.
Damn the screendoor effect is massive. It did not negatively impact the feeling of being "there" but damn. Fov was big enough for me to not notice any boundaries.
Other then that - I cant wait for VR to take of.
 
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