Hulst: Concord was insufficiently differentiated to be a success - Marathon feedback varied but useful

cormack12

Gold Member
Source: https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-a...es-and-commits-to-launch-by-end-of-march-2026

What has Sony learned from the Concord disaster, and how does that relate to Marathon, Bungie's in-development extraction live service shooter?

"I think some really good work, actually, went into that title, some really big effort. But ultimately that title entered into a hyper competitive segment of the market. I think it was insufficiently differentiated to be able to resonate with players.

"And so we have reviewed our processes in light of this to deeply understand how and why that title failed to meet expectations and to ensure we're not going to make the same mistakes again.

"As I said earlier, we've introduced much more rigorous processes for validating, for re-validating, our creative, our commercial, our development assumptions and hypotheses, and we now do that on a much more ongoing basis. That's the plan that will ensure we are investing in the right opportunities at the right time, all while maintaining much more predictable timelines.

"For Marathon, it's our goal to release a very bold, very innovative, and deeply engaging title. It's going to be the first new Bungie title in over a decade. So we're really excited for that release. We're monitoring, we're going through the test cycles. We're monitoring the closed alpha cycle the team has just gone through. We're taking all the lessons learned, we're using the capabilities we've built and analytics and user testing to understand how audiences are engaging with the title.

"Some of that feedback, frankly, has been varied. But it's super useful. That's why you do this testing. The constant testing, the constant re-validation of assumptions that we just talked about, to me is just so valuable to iterate and to constantly improve the title, so when launch comes, we're going to give the title the optimal chance of success."
 
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So when are they going to delay Marathon? I was expecting an announcement this week if they weren't going to do it before their State of Play. Seems like it needs to be soon?
 
It's not just about being 'insufficiently differentiated'. Just look at the character models... who'd want to play them and, most of all, spend cash on cosmetic items for them?
 
This guy... its like he's refusing to acknowledge the elephant in the room regarding Concord. He either ignores the outcry and humiliation from the gaming community or he's completely oblivious to it. Its like it didn't even register.
 
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Stellar-Blade-demo-release-date.jpg


Yeah right. If it had characters who looked like this, it would've got at least 100x more players.

Still probably wouldn't have been enough to save it, but don't even try to pretend like "insufficiently differentiated" was the sole problem with that turd.
 
Concord and Marathon are both trying to enter a saturated market. But I do not think they offered anything new and the character and world design is just bad in both. Marathons art style is pretty jarring. Concord Character design was awful. I just don't know who they are trying to appeal to. Maybe their own internal bias and echo chamber is causing the misstep. Everyone really wants what I like.
 
And this is the same people who thinks they "learned from the failure of Concord".
If you can't find the elephant in the room(overall design, characters design, art direction, normalized forced social bullcrap, etc), then everything you create will be doomed to failed. This guy is a certified idiot.
 
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Why am i not surprised?
Sony still has to have few srs woke GAAS flops and hopefully fire topguy hulst before his actions/mindset make company lose even more cash.
In the end its sony's money on the line, not ours, luckily for us capitalism works so customers arent forced to buy/play bad games, competition in gaming industry will take care of ppl like hulsts rather earlier than later ;)
 
This guy... its like he's refusing to acknowledge the elephant in the room regarding Concord. He either ignores the outcry and humiliation from the gaming community or he's completely oblivious to it. Its like it didn't even register.
I don't think I've ever heard any serious, non-PR controlled answer on a Business Segment webcast. You're looking at the wrong place, they don't really need to talk about anything other than their successes to their shareholders, anyway.
 
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Oh it was different enough.. the problem was that the difference was based on extreme woke ideas that dont resonate with 99% of the population
I'm pretty certain that is now taken into consideration, they'll never admit it in public though. In Concord's case that is very obviously one of the major criticisms and they wont be blind to it.
 
Why should be the cause of the flops? Like seriously? Who give a fuck if the game is good about this woke stuff?
Target audience of online shooters is for the most part teenage boys and young adult males, u will not lure them to ur game with woke ideology, its disgusting af for most men, especially men with high testosterone lvls which teenagers/young adult males have plenty of ;)
 
Target audience of online shooters is for the most part teenage boys and young adult males, u will not lure them to ur game with woke ideology, its disgusting af for most men, especially men with high testosterone lvls which teenagers/young adult males have plenty of ;)
I don't know if it's ironic or not at this point.
 
I think some really good work, actually, went into that title, some really big effort
Where was the effort exactly?

But ultimately that title entered into a hyper competitive segment of the market. I think it was insufficiently differentiated to be able to resonate with players.
No shit? Its an online game where you fight other players? You lot expected anything else?

Some of that feedback, frankly, has been varied. But it's super useful. That's why you do this testing
Yes you do testing but you can't change the core of the game unless you rework it completely

Clown in denial.
 
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You have such a good argument sir.

If woke is the main reason or not is one thing, but denying woke is not one of the many reasons this game fail while THE OTHERS GAMES THAT FAILED HAVE THE SAME ISSUE IN COMMON.

Yeah, sure. Double down.
You hate woke culture. We get it. And because such game show woke culture or whatever you think it's a deep argument to point out. Ok.
 
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Wait so he is saying that it need to be "more different"?!?!? Wtf is this guy talking about!! This is just pr political correctness speech. The games that made me a PS owner just don't exist any more.
 
He's right why are you guys booing him? The gameplay of Concord was actually pretty great IMO it just can't compete at $40 in a genre full of NAME BRANDS that are free.

IE nobody is going to pay money to CHANGE to another hero shooter when they can just play Overwatch for free.
 
This just confirms one of two things:
1. he knows exactly why it fails and has to address it, but will never admit to the actual reason
2. he's fed this information from an echo chamber of sycophants who truly, delusionally, believe that this is the reason; like they are actually confounded why it failed so badly and see this as the only possible reason

Both things are awful.
 
Ah. the fun.

I mean a generic and insignificant game which propose the same things seens tons of times. But people don't buy because it hate transgender propaganda. Ok.
Generic games are launched all the time.. they dont end up pulled out of stores and immediately cancelled and reimbursed... specially when they costed north of 200 m dollars.

The game had horrible designs decisions made by minds too mutch involved with their own bias. They made the game for them. And them are a huge minority.
 
Source: https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-a...es-and-commits-to-launch-by-end-of-march-2026

What has Sony learned from the Concord disaster, and how does that relate to Marathon, Bungie's in-development extraction live service shooter?

"I think some really good work, actually, went into that title, some really big effort. But ultimately that title entered into a hyper competitive segment of the market. I think it was insufficiently differentiated to be able to resonate with players.

"And so we have reviewed our processes in light of this to deeply understand how and why that title failed to meet expectations and to ensure we're not going to make the same mistakes again.

"As I said earlier, we've introduced much more rigorous processes for validating, for re-validating, our creative, our commercial, our development assumptions and hypotheses, and we now do that on a much more ongoing basis. That's the plan that will ensure we are investing in the right opportunities at the right time, all while maintaining much more predictable timelines.

"For Marathon, it's our goal to release a very bold, very innovative, and deeply engaging title. It's going to be the first new Bungie title in over a decade. So we're really excited for that release. We're monitoring, we're going through the test cycles. We're monitoring the closed alpha cycle the team has just gone through. We're taking all the lessons learned, we're using the capabilities we've built and analytics and user testing to understand how audiences are engaging with the title.

"Some of that feedback, frankly, has been varied. But it's super useful. That's why you do this testing. The constant testing, the constant re-validation of assumptions that we just talked about, to me is just so valuable to iterate and to constantly improve the title, so when launch comes, we're going to give the title the optimal chance of success."
LOL.

Concord was actually among the most differentiated shooters out there. The problem was the differentiated factors were all junk.

- Tons of high quality cut scenes, including a special Amazon promo video
- DEI characters
- An ugly washed out colour palette
- A weird game mechanic of being forced to change characters after every win even if you want to stick with the same one
- No detailed info about the game until a beta 2-3 weeks before launch

In gaming, you dont even have to be ultra unique to be successful. That Delta Force game made by that Chinese company is basically a BF game. Has over 130,000 Steam CCU right now. It does way better than BF games themselves.

As for Marathon, dont forget to test the artwork for plagiarism Hermen! The moustache guy said in the chat, they'd release updates and revised artwork the following week. Yet today is literally 4 weeks later of radio silence. LOL
 
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Concord was a different game. It was exclusively woke and considering everything, it was very successful with the community. 20-30000 all of them. But was it worth it to develop a 400 million live service game just for them?
 
Stellar-Blade-demo-release-date.jpg


Yeah right. If it had characters who looked like this, it would've got at least 100x more players.

Still probably wouldn't have been enough to save it, but don't even try to pretend like "insufficiently differentiated" was the sole problem with that turd.
First Descendant had that and it turned out to be a mid-tiered success at very best.
 
Glad to hear they're still going to push out Marathon, so we can witness it bomb upon release. I was afraid they silently cancelled it, since it was a no-show in the recent showcases.

Might as well push out Fairgames too while you're at it...
 
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