I have a fascination for low poly LOD (= level of detail) models

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iidesuyo

Member
Sounds stupid, but ever since I played LHX Attack Chopper on my 386 PC, I realized how objects got less detailed the further they got away.

I did a video featuring some low poly model of Rage Racer, because that game is super free camera friendly (it's not monetized).




Does anyone have other sources? I would love to see the LOD models of Daytona USA. There was once a thread about the LOD models of Diddy Kong Racing, those looked super funny.
 
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I have a similar attraction to that particular style of graphics. You aren't alone in the world. You should check out Walkabout mini golf in VR. Really nails the low-fi asthetic and is analogous to a world rendered with a far away LOD look.
 
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A classic example is Super Mario 64. Seeing Mario's LOD at the top of the hill in Bob-omb Battlefield where the camera goes just about far enough to see it.

This was not as noticeable in native resolution, on old tube TVs. But in emulators showing the game in HD, in higher resolution monitors, you could see this as clear as day"



I remember thinking it's a graphics glitch because of bad emulation or something. This was my introduction on the concept of LOD.


In Ocarina of Time, Link also has a similar LOD model but it's more noticeable because it swaps at almost the exact max distance between Link and the camera. Again, it's not as noticeable in native resolution but i remember in emulation and later releases where the game is emulated at 2x resolution this being quite annoying. I'm not sure why they decided to swap to low poly at the normal camera distance, it seems like an error to me.

 
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Low poly models leave more to the imagination in contrast to highly detailed models, or perhaps over-detailed, rob you of that. Your mind gets stimulated and allows yourself to fill out or imagine the "blanks". That's probably where some of this fascination stems from.
 
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Crazy Taxi pedestrians turn into 2D billboards when far away. I never noticed before emulating the game given the blazing fast speed and they seem to have 2D billboards for enough (all?) of the variations of the character models to not make it noticable at all in normal gameplay circumstances.
 
Alexios said:
Crazy Taxi pedestrians turn into 2D billboards when far away. I never noticed before emulating the game given the blazing fast speed and they seem to have 2D billboards for enough (all?) of the variations of the character models to not make it noticable at all in normal gameplay circumstances.
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The Climb 2 on Quest 2 does the same with the traffic below you. It is however completely noticable.
 
LOD is still used in modern games, yes even PC games (lol) but it's especially easy to see in this era of games when they're blown up in an emulator, making it easy to spot the technique.

Why is this an opportunity to make fun of the 3D models in a 1997 game? Were there many models that looked better than Cloud back then?
 
nkarafo said:
A classic example is Super Mario 64. Seeing Mario's LOD at the top of the hill in Bob-omb Battlefield where the camera goes just about far enough to see it.

This was not as noticeable in native resolution, on old tube TVs. But in emulators showing the game in HD, in higher resolution monitors, you could see this as clear as day"



I remember thinking it's a graphics glitch because of bad emulation or something. This was my introduction on the concept of LOD.


In Ocarina of Time, Link also has a similar LOD model but it's more noticeable because it swaps at almost the exact max distance between Link and the camera. Again, it's not as noticeable in native resolution but i remember in emulation and later releases where the game is emulated at 2x resolution this being quite annoying. I'm not sure why they decided to swap to low poly at the normal camera distance, it seems like an error to me.

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In both cases I don't know why they did this, since both games where capped at 30 and 20 fps respectively, I'm not sure a bit more polygons can affect the framerate to the point of going under these limits. They removed this in Majora's Mask and it's not affecting the framerate at all.
 
BlackTron said:
LOD is still used in modern games, yes even PC games (lol) but it's especially easy to see in this era of games when they're blown up in an emulator, making it easy to spot the technique.

Why is this an opportunity to make fun of the 3D models in a 1997 game? Were there many models that looked better than Cloud back then?
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Like Mario 64 already posted, for example. Even the low poly model has hands. Plus that abomination was used in pre rendered backgrounds so the only 3D stuff on the screen are the characters. 🤦‍♂️

There was zero reasons other than bad choice or technical incompetence to not use the battle models outside battles.
 
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BlackTron said:
Were there many models that looked better than Cloud back then?
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Yes, pretty much all of them, even sports games with many players running around looked better, never mind something like Resident Evil with pre-rendered backgrounds, it was a pretty baffling art direction that doesn't even qualify as 'chibi' versions of the better battle models, just weird and crude and they quickly changed it in all their future games to way better stuff (even if they used similar polycounts, just better designed). Makes sense for the game being in development for years and basically their first foray in 3D stuff, good thing they did much better in its other aspects. Still weird 🤷‍♂️
 
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LOD transitions are my biggest graphical annoyance in gaming. I know it's not realistic, but I would vastly prefer the entire game just be lower poly and designed around having only one level of detail that is always rendered.
 
iidesuyo said:
Does anyone have other sources? I would love to see the LOD models of Daytona USA. There was once a thread about the LOD models of Diddy Kong Racing, those looked super funny.
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Shadow of the Colossus has a lot of documentation on the technical side of how they did things; fake hdr, lod, fur, etc. Might have to search around but its there

There is also a lot of GDC key notes that speak about LOD,, low poly art techniques, et

I also love a low poly / minimal style - especially with solid bakes / light maps. It often lends to better communication, my vision is also super shitty lol. Never broke into modeling professionally, but have been a try hard hobbyst since the late 90s. I really appreciate efficient, performant driven assets and feel that its a dying practice....
 
I love some good ole PS1 jank and warping!

All here for it and it's why so many new games have that on Steam. Makes for great horror indies too
 
Wilhelm_85 said:
LOD transitions are my biggest graphical annoyance in gaming. I know it's not realistic, but I would vastly prefer the entire game just be lower poly and designed around having only one level of detail that is always rendered.
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Old 3D pc games that relied on BSP trees (DOOM, Quake, Half Life, etc) were basically this. There were no LODs, they either rendered the object, wall, etc; that appeared on screen or not (which often led to them having those corridor-ish levels).
 
Have you ever play Fzero fx? if not op .. you might want to sit down before watching any videos.
 
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Not the point of the video, but that's a perfect illustration of why emulators should never bump up the resolution of old games, and it's such a stupid idea to do so when you're actually playing (rather than just as an exercise to examine the polys here). It turns the originally intended output into total trash, destroys every part of the intended visual balance.

One day, at the very least emulators should go with a live AI upscale of the low-res original game footage if you really want it higher res, but actually up-resing the polygonal rendering inside the engine is a fool's errand.

EDIT: quick AI upscale, very lazy but still looks like where things will go one day if you want to emulate and old game but experience the fantasy of it looking amazing on top; eventually this will absolutely be possible live without latency.
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ResurrectedContrarian said:
Not the point of the video, but that's a perfect illustration of why emulators should never bump up the resolution of old games
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Depends on the games. Not 32bit stuff usually but Dreamcast onwards can look good depending on the game/mood, though if there's severe LODing then I'm more inclined to go for native + CRT shaders. But you also have PC games of the era, ie Rogue Squadron or Colin McRae in high res/fps vs the N64/PS versions etc., they were already higher res on PC, you just bump it even more (though you could have HD and beyond CRT monitors). You can also add scanlines and other filters that can help give it texture so it doesn't look plain/barren while still having nicer res. And it also looks real bad if you're blowing up native images in raw pixel form on larger screens/size than you'd play them back then even if that's what the systems output. And there are modern low poly games meant to be played in high res too (and others not meant to), actual old games can be similarly suitable.

AI is worse than everything else though.

Anyway this is completely derailing the thread alongside everyone just talking low poly stuff instead of the actual distant lod stuff the OP (for whatever weird reasons, it's just simplified models, usually crude/not meant to be seen unlike the actual low poly close up lod stuff that have art/skill) wants.
 
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Alexios said:
Depends on the games, some can look nice still. Not 32bit stuff usually but Dreamcast onwards can look good depending on the game/mood I can go either way, though if there's severe LODing then I'm more inclined to go for native + CRT shaders. But you also have PC games of the era that can look great in high res you couldn't play them back then, ie Rogue Squadron or Coline McRae in high res/fps vs the N64/PS versions etc. You can also add scanlines and other filters on top of high res that can help give it texture so it doesn't look plain/barren while still having nicer res etc. And it also looks bad if you're blowing up native res images in raw pixel form on larger screens/size than you'd play them back then as that's not how they looked on CRT even if that's technically what the systems output.
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I only play on CRTs anyway so I don't need the shaders (normal TV CRTs of small to medium size usually; for old 90s to early 2000s PC games I use my retro PC build which is plugged into an actual CRT PC monitor).

But in nearly all cases I would choose not to bump the resolution at all. To me, there was a certain balance between the polygonal / texture complexity and the resolution of the era. If you bump up the resolution, but have the same internal models, you end up seeing their incomplete and awkward shapes more than you could in the past. It sort of highlights that aspect by bringing it out of alignment, and runs the effect for me more than having a low res can.
 
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Not really on topic but replaying a bunch of games from this era with nice shaders has been amazing. I'd like to get a CRT but no real space for it right now.
 
I got 2 exceptions to this.

If the game is a metroidvania style type of horror like the old RE1 to RE3/Deep Fear than I would still love playing a game with the old pixel style like them.

Of if it's a sidescroller similae to Infernax or Huntdown than I'll give it a shot too.
 
I was always really impressed by the draw distance and low LOD models in Super Mario Sunshine, and frankly every subsequent 3D Mario game.

OP, I'm curious about what you think of Nanite, since that (in theory) should make standard LOD models a thing of the past.
 
ResurrectedContrarian said:
Not the point of the video, but that's a perfect illustration of why emulators should never bump up the resolution of old games, and it's such a stupid idea to do so when you're actually playing (rather than just as an exercise to examine the polys here). It turns the originally intended output into total trash, destroys every part of the intended visual balance.
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Not always the case.

Dark souls on PS3 literally hide a gorgeous texture work behind the sub 720p res. The og PC version demonstrates that perfectly.

Even on some older games there're games that screams for resolution or textures filters. (Vagrant Story, PS2 games in general, Cell shading games...)
edit: and the AI upscale KILLS the entire art direction. 100% better playing on a emulation with a HD texture pack + upscale res than that.
 
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RetroGamingUK said:
Rage Racer was really impressive in early 1997, so much trackside detail.

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Like the video that I posted, at 3:50 minutes. I don't think any other consoles profit as much from upscaling as the PS1 and Saturn. The texture resolution is often suprisingly high, but everything gets drowned in low-res pixels.
 
I did a similar video about Ridge Racer on PS1. It's not that long since the game is basically just one track with a twist.

My favourite is the tunnel with the cars that have no wheels.




I wonder if Rage Racer used a "tuned" version of that engine, or whether they developed it from the ground.
 
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