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"I lied about WMD to topple Saddam"

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The defector who convinced the White House that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme has admitted for the first time that he lied about his story, then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war.

Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, codenamed Curveball by German and American intelligence officials who dealt with his claims, has told the Guardian that he fabricated tales of mobile bioweapons trucks and clandestine factories in an attempt to bring down the Saddam Hussein regime, from which he had fled in 1995. "Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right," he said. "They gave me this chance. I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that and we are proud that we were the reason to give Iraq the margin of democracy."

The admission comes just after the eighth anniversary of Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations in which the then-US secretary of state relied heavily on lies that Janabi had told the German secret service, the BND. It also follows the release of former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld's memoirs, in which he admitted Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction programme. The careers of both men were seriously damaged by their use of Janabi's claims, which he now says could have been – and were – discredited well before Powell's landmark speech to the UN on 5 February 2003.

The former CIA chief in Europe Tyler Drumheller describes Janabi's admission as "fascinating", and said the emergence of the truth "makes me feel better". "I think there are still a number of people who still thought there was something in that. Even now," said Drumheller. In the only other at length interview Janabi has given he denied all knowledge of his supposed role in helping the US build a case for invading Saddam's Iraq. In a series of meetings with the Guardian in Germany where he has been granted asylum, he said he had told a German official, who he identified as Dr Paul, about mobile bioweapons trucks throughout 2000. He said the BND had identified him as a Baghdad-trained chemical engineer and approached him shortly after 13 March of that year, looking for inside information about Saddam's Iraq.

"I had a problem with the Saddam regime," he said. "I wanted to get rid of him and now I had this chance." He portrays the BND as gullible and so eager to tease details from him that they gave him a Perry's Chemical Engineering Handbook to help communicate. He still has the book in his small, rented flat in Karlsruhe, south-west Germany. "They were asking me about pumps for filtration, how to make detergent after the reaction," he said. "Any engineer who studied in this field can explain or answer any question they asked."

Janabi claimed he was first exposed as a liar as early as mid-2000, when the BND travelled to a Gulf city, believed to be Dubai, to speak with his former boss at the Military Industries Commission in Iraq, Dr Bassil Latif. The Guardian has learned separately that British intelligence officials were at that meeting, investigating a claim made by Janabi that Latif's son, who was studying in Britain, was procuring weapons for Saddam. That claim was proven false, and Latif strongly denied Janabi's claim of mobile bioweapons trucks and another allegation that 12 people had died during an accident at a secret bioweapons facility in south-east Baghdad. The German officials returned to confront him with Latif's version. "He says, 'There are no trucks,' and I say, 'OK, when [Latif says] there no trucks then [there are none],'" Janabi recalled.

He said the BND did not contact him again until the end of May 2002. But he said it soon became clear that he was still being taken seriously. He claimed the officials gave him an incentive to speak by implying that his then pregnant Moroccan-born wife may not be able to travel from Spain to join him in Germany if he did not co-operate with them. "He says, you work with us or your wife and child go to Morocco."

The meetings continued throughout 2002 and it became apparent to Janabi that a case for war was being constructed. He said he was not asked again about the bioweapons trucks until a month before Powell's speech. After the speech, Janabi said he called his handler at the BND and accused the secret service of breaking an agreement that they would not share anything he had told them with another country. He said he was told not to speak and placed in confinement for around 90 days. With the US now leaving Iraq, Janabi said he was comfortable with what he did, despite the chaos of the past eight years and the civilian death toll in Iraq, which stands at more than 100,000.

"I tell you something when I hear anybody – not just in Iraq but in any war – [is] killed, I am very sad. But give me another solution. Can you give me another solution? "Believe me, there was no other way to bring about freedom to Iraq. There were no other possibilities."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war

The lies

Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, the defector who convinced the US that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme, falsely claimed that:

• He worked on a team that assembled germ-production units on trucks at Djerf al-Nadaf, a seed purification plant 10 miles south-east of Baghdad. He claimed these mobile biochemical laboratories were hidden in a two-storey building that could be driven into from both sides. This claim confirmed CIA suspicions that the reason they could not find WMD was because they were being moved from place to place to evade inspectors.

• An accident at Djerf al-Nadaf in 1998 killed 12 bio-warfare technicians.

• There were plans to build mobile biochemical factories at six sites across Iraq, from Numaniya, in the south, to Tikrit, in the north.

• When UN weapons inspectors were in Iraq, the production of the biological weapons agent always began at midnight on Thursdays because Iraq thought the inspectors would not work on the Muslim holy day, which ran from Thursday night to Friday night.

The consequences

The BND passed on this information to the CIA. The caveats attached to the information are disputed, but somehow Curveball's testimony made its way into Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations on 5 February 2003, in which the then US secretary of state made the case for invading Iraq. Powell now describes that day as a painful "blot" on his career. He told the UN he had "first-hand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails". These mobile laboratories, said Powell, were "easily moved and are designed to evade detection by inspectors. In a matter of months, they can produce a quantity of biological poison equal to the entire amount that Iraq claimed to have produced in the years prior to the Gulf war."

The source for this claim, said Powell, was "an eyewitness, an Iraqi chemical engineer who supervised one of these facilities. He actually was present during biological agent production runs. He was also at the site when an accident occurred in 1998. Twelve technicians died from exposure to biological agents." This source was Curveball.

Two months later, the invasion began. Since then, according to Iraq Body Count, at least 100,000 civilians have been killed in the conflict.​

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/curveballs-lies-consequences-iraqi-defector

Q&A with the Guardian on this
 

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
damn, never saw that coming.


Meus Renaissance said:
This was the exact plot for Matt Damons Green Zone by the way
Green Zone featured the best portrayal of Iraqis on television.
 

JGS

Banned
ElectricBlue187 said:
We've known you were a liar for almost 10 years now
Bingo. I guess confession is good for the soul.

Of course, it didn't take much to get the war that some wanted to happen from the get go to actually get started either.
 
I am not shocked that there were no WMDs. What I am shocked about is that the US government even needed to find someone they could base their own lies on.
 
Roi said:
How is it possible that a agency is relying on one man.. Very unprofessional.

Are you serious? They just told me what to say to the press. He was an actor, the script was written by US intelligence.
 

andycapps

Member
What a bastard. His whole argument seems to be that "the ends justify the means." His ends being that Hussein was removed, but he lied to get there.
 
A lot of people forget, that a lot of Americans bought the proof that the Bush administration gave them, in order to start the Iraq War.

This was true, even on GAF. Ripclawe, PS2 Kid, and DarienA were leading that pro-war brigade with vicious abandon, going after posters who questioned the evidence presented to the public.

Now, a lot of the folks who were for the war in the first place have "revised their positions," to make it seem that they never supported the war in the first place.
 

Ecto311

Member
l_58d7da1eb95343edbbb29a9ae2c73a3c.jpg


tryin to get that oill..cough..oooillll
 
I'm pretty sure US intelligence agencies knew full well the information about WMD didnt check out. Administration officials just didnt want the full picture, they deliberately and scrupulously avoided facts that undermined their claims. They were going to carry out that invasion one way or the other. We have evidence that the intelligence agencies were "leaned on" to provide the kind of intel the Bush administration wanted.
 

Dyno

Member
The only people who believed him were the people who needed his story to be true. Curveball is the willing patsy in such a huge web of corruption. He didn't start anything, he merely helped justify it.
 
I'm pretty sure US intelligence agencies knew full well the information about WMD didnt check out. Administration officials just didnt want the full picture, they deliberately and scrupulously avoided facts that undermined their claims. They were going to carry out that invasion one way or the other. We have evidence that the intelligence agencies were "leaned on" to provide the kind of intel the Bush administration wanted.
Yes, they did. If I also remember correctly (it's been awhile) there were multiple hearings from all intelligence agencies, and more than a few people quit because they were ignored/admonished for proving the concept WRONG ON ALL ACCOUNTS.

Makes me want to rent "No End in Sight" again.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Ecto311 said:
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_58d7da1eb95343edbbb29a9ae2c73a3c.jpg[IMG]

tryin to get that oill..cough..oooillll[/QUOTE]
RED ROCKS


YEY YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 

1-D_FTW

Member
LCfiner said:
Because they wanted it to be real so bad.

I don't think they cared. It was just somebody they could finally wrap their justification around. The oil companies of Captain Dick needed an excuse and they finally dug one up.
 

Gruco

Banned
How many contortions were there to explain this one back in the day? The main one I remember was that, no no, all of the weapons were moved to Syria before the war started to trick us.
 
One good thing about these kind of revelations is the fact that it's one piece of an ever growing pile of evidence that annihilates the revisionist lie that Saddam Hussein "tricked us into thinking Iraq had WMD." You'd be surprised how often this line is used by the pro-war crowd.
 
Sirpopopop said:
A lot of people forget, that a lot of Americans bought the proof that the Bush administration gave them, in order to start the Iraq War.

This was true, even on GAF. Ripclawe, PS2 Kid, and DarienA were leading that pro-war brigade with vicious abandon, going after posters who questioned the evidence presented to the public.

Now, a lot of the folks who were for the war in the first place have "revised their positions," to make it seem that they never supported the war in the first place.

I clearly remember like it was yesterday, the debate me and my mostly liberal friends had about Iraq and war briefly after 9/11. I was the ONLY guy that thought it was stupid and not because I didn't believe what the media was telling me. I did. Why wouldn't I? But to me, you don't start a war just because you got a spitball shot into the back of your head. It was pure emotional overreacting. I got berated hard by a room of 6 very intelligent and usually calm (but clearly disillusioned and angry) peers for that position at that time. I was an idiot. I was a wuss. I was a coward. I couldn't believe my ears...how emotional and mindless my friends became.

Couple months later, everyone was agreeing with me and they still to this day will not acknowledge the debate we had before everyone was in consensus. Not one of them. It never happened in their perception or, at best, they agreed with me.
I'm sure my mind has denied certain positions after the fact. I'm sure I've broken promises simply because I can't recall making them. But never was it so blatant as my post 9/11 debate with some folks that I thought I knew so well.
 
Mr. B Natural said:
I clearly remember like it was yesterday, the debate me and my mostly liberal friends had about Iraq and war briefly after 9/11. I was the ONLY guy that thought it was stupid and not because I didn't believe what the media was telling me. I did. Why wouldn't I? But to me, you don't start a war just because you got a spitball shot into the back of your head. It was pure emotional overreacting. I got berated hard by a room of 6 very intelligent and usually calm (but clearly disillusioned and angry) peers for that position at that time. I was an idiot. I was a wuss. I was a coward. I couldn't believe my ears...how emotional and mindless my friends became.

Couple months later, everyone was agreeing with me and they still to this day will not acknowledge the debate we had before everyone was in consensus. Not one of them. It never happened in their perception or, at best, they agreed with me.
I'm sure my mind has denied certain positions after the fact. I'm sure I've broken promises simply because I can't recall making them. But never was it so blatant as my post 9/11 debate with some folks that I thought I knew so well.

That's just how it is with a lot of people. I dunno if I'd relate 9/11 to a spitball in the back of the head, but I still stand firmly in the belief that extreme retaliation like that is never the best option. 99% of my friends disagreed, claiming Bush to be the best president ever, that there needed to be a war to teach the Middle East a lesson and avenge our dead, shit like that. I truly understand the anger but punching some douchebag in the face is a little different then starting an entire war (let alone two) in a blind, reactionary move. A few months later none of my friends seemed to be in the same position and all of them were suddenly against everything the administration stood for...as if they never felt the way they did, which is understandable, but unfortunately the government consists of many people with the same sort of short fuse and attention span.
 

2San

Member
To be fair when 9/11 happened. USA was going to war even if they didn't have a reason. People where pissed as hell and they wanted and needed revenge to cope with the situation(even if it was misguided).
 
Roi said:
How is it possible that a agency is relying on one man.. Very unprofessional.

Because they sold Saddam the weapons, they couldn't believe that he didn't have them anymore. They believed this so strongly that they fabricated evidence because they were sure they'dbe vindicated when a stockpile was found. This guy was almost incidental.
 
2San said:
To be fair when 9/11 happened. USA was going to war even if they didn't have a reason. People where pissed as hell and they wanted and needed revenge to cope with the situation(even if it was misguided).
That's what Afghanistan war was about though, right? The hysteria over Iraq kicked up well after the Taliban had been toppled. And it must have been an intense propaganda effort, given the fact that a school child could have seen that Iraq was destroyed from top to bottom by the harshest sanctions regime in history and posed no threat to anyone beyond its borders.
 

JGS

Banned
crowphoenix said:
I am not shocked that there were no WMDs. What I am shocked about is that the US government even needed to find someone they could base their own lies on.
They should have just invaded Iraq without proof since they wanted Saddam that bad.

Not saying I'm for invasion and they should have let the people remain ruled by a dictator, but I'm against political pretense.
 

Zenith

Banned
Unfortunately, the knowledge that Curveball was a nobody trying to get a green card whose only CIA contact was a drunk has been publicised before.
 
People will believe what they want to believe. The right wanted all this to be true so they can invade. So they ignored all the red flags that indicating he was lying.


People, from all views, really need to challenge themselves instead of just willingly believing what you want to believe just because you found someone that said it.
 
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