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[brain_stew]

don't put a lot of hope in big optimizations at this point.

when public Betas like this hit, they're at a point where they're doing about 10% optimizations, and 90% gameplay balancing.

Well, yeah, I'm well aware of that, and have stressed it to others plenty of times. Its just those performance characteristics are literally completely different to every single PC game on the market. Up the "shaders" setting and there'll usually be close to zero impact on CPU performance, an increase of 100% CPU load, nevermind 400% like we're seeing here, is completely unheard of.

 

[dionysus]

Ignorant comment here, but could offloading shaders to the CPU be an attempt to make this game playable on more computers, while sacrificing performance at the high end. My reasoning is that most people have computers with much more powerful CPUs than GPUs. I always find it funny when people by a core i7 computer with some shit GPU.

 

[Parl]

Which has the best desktop performance out of, and by how much?

New:

CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E5300 2.6GHz Socket 775 800FSB 2MB L2 Cache
Mobo: Asus P5KPL-AM SE iG31 Socket 775 onboard Graphics audio mATX Motherboard
RAM: Crucial 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL6
HDD: Seagate ST3500418AS 500GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache

Second hand:

CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2.5GHz (8 months old)
Mobo: Same Asus as above (8 months old)
RAM: OCZ 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Platinum XTC Memory Kit CL4 2.1V (8 months old)
HDDs: 2x Maxtor 200GB SATA HDDs in RAID (About 4 years old)

The current prices of those RAM are 33 quid for the Crucial and 45.75 for the OCZ Platinum. I want to know if the better RAM and RAID HDDs more than make up for the decrease in CPU quality and the parts being second hand, and the largely inferior and old Maxtor HDDs.

Also, my PC will be noisier because of the 2 HDDs instead of 1, each of which are no match for that Seagate's low noise level and general performance. Though decent HDDs aren't really noisy, a very quiet PC is a big consideration for me. I will be paying 6 quid less for the second hand setup.

 

[rollingstart]

If you only have one fan for your heatsink, is it better to have it pushing air in or pulling it out?

I ordered a heatsink that came with a fan + two other 120mm fans for my p183 case (middle and bottom) For those familiar with the case, the headsink would be sitting right in front of the rear exhaust fan and top exhaust fan.

bump

another quick question regarding it. Most 120mm fans used on the heatsink can also be used as a case fan, right?

 

[dionysus]

You'd want it blowing in the same direction as the nearest case fan.

 

[Odious Tea]

Looks like I missed the all the 5830 talk. The vibe I'm getting is "Don't bother." I plan to Crossfire my 5770, I figure it's the best price/performance.

 

[coopolon]

Out of curiosity, when people here put together a new PC, do you guys go through the steps of optimizing your BIOS? I'd never even heard of this concept before, but recently came across this website I figured I'd give it a try. I've never really understood that much in the BIOS other then setting up what drives the PC boots from first, and so am finding it really interesting.

 

[Salaadin]

Out of curiosity, when people here put together a new PC, do you guys go through the steps of optimizing your BIOS? I'd never even heard of this concept before, but recently came across this website I figured I'd give it a try. I've never really understood that much in the BIOS other then setting up what drives the PC boots from first, and so am finding it really interesting.

I cant view that link at work but I did do things like set my RAM timings and stuff like that.

 

[vocab]

bump

another quick question regarding it. Most 120mm fans used on the heatsink can also be used as a case fan, right?

If it has that small 3 pin connector, then ya.

 

[pestul]

Just did a comparison between the Catalyst 9.12Hotfix drivers and the 10.3Betas.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33959849

These betas are keepers for me.

Crysis - 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAniso DX10 Custom Config

9.12HF - 40.39H 31.54A 24.70M
10.3BE - 41.90H 33.15A 26.35M (5.1%+ A)

Dirt 2 - 1680x1050 8xAA DX11 All Highest

9.12HF - 4353 Total Frames 48.1A 40.3M
10.3BE - 4683 Total Frames 51.7A 45.6M (7.5%+ A)
*Minimum increased by 13.1%

Heaven - 1680x1050 4xAA 16xAniso DX11 Tess

9.12HF - 545 Score 21.6
10.3BE - 548 Score 21.8 (1%+ A)

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat Bench - 1680x1050 4xAA DX11 Tess HDAO Ultra

9.12HF
Day 50.8H 34.8A 20.1M
Night 44.3H 30.2A 22.2M
Rain 46.6H 31.4A 21.7M
SunShafts 36.6H 23.9M 19.2M

10.3BE
Day 54.8H 35.6A 20.5M (2.3%+ A)
Night 47.2H 30.9A 22.5M (2.3%+ A)
Rain 47.6H 31.9A 22.9M (1.6%+ A)
SunShafts 37.3H 24.2A 18.6M (1.2%+ A)

Subjectively, I didn't notice any oddities. Also, I perceived it to be smoother or less jerky. Especially in the Call of Pripyat bench.

 

[spazzfish]

Out of curiosity, when people here put together a new PC, do you guys go through the steps of optimizing your BIOS? I'd never even heard of this concept before, but recently came across this website I figured I'd give it a try. I've never really understood that much in the BIOS other then setting up what drives the PC boots from first, and so am finding it really interesting.

You should at a minimum set your ram timings and speed. I'd also set your voltages manually. if you leave it on auto you'll find that your system will probably draw a lot more power then it needs. It wont necessarily hurt anything, but it will increase temps more then necessary. Also setting your pci-e frequency to 100 is the norm especially if your doing any overclocking.

 

[coopolon]

I'd like to buy an aftermarket cooler so that I can OC my e8400. I have a MSI p45 platinum in a mid-tower case.

I'm thinking about the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus. I like the price, I like the reviews. It's supposed to be "compact", but I'm a little concerned about whether it will fit onto my mobo. Measuring, 160 mm wide puts it overlapping a little bit with one of my DIMM slots. It looks like the edge is raised a bit, so I'm thinking it might fit, but just make that DIMM not useable, which would be okay.

Any advice? Or other comparable coolers that are smaller?

Edit: Or I could get the Coolermaster Hyper TX3. It's smaller, cheaper, easier to install, and not as good, but supposedly the e8400 is a breeze to oc to 4 ghz.

Thoughts?

 

[Coldsnap]

Got an easy question for you computer experts:

Does buying a "silent" case actually work? Right now I have a Cooler Master Centurion 5, Zalman heatsink, Radeon 4850, and two loud WD harddrives. I don't really play much PC games (probably 2-3 games a year) and It's nice to have a decent computer when I need to but I cannot deal with the noise! If I just throw everything I have into one of those Antecs silent towers will I actually notice a difference in a silent room, or will it still be noisy? Also what silent towers would you suggest? Thanks.

 

[Askani]

I'm stuck hobbling together parts people have given me or that I've found super cheap because I can't afford the rig I actually want. I'm mostly playing WoW, Borderlands, or GTA IV right now. With FF XIV and Diablo III looming on the horizon though, I don't want to be assed out when they hit. So that means I'm weighing my options about upgrading my PC.

I currently have:
Asus M2N4-SLI board
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ AM2 Dual-Core processor
2 gigs of Corsair DDR2 667 RAM
MSI 8600 GTS video card
Windows XP (don't plan on upgrading yet, but it's not out of the question because of DriectX)

For processors, I was looking around, and I could get a used AM2 6000+ or 6400+ for less than $50. Basically going from a Dual Core 2.1ghz to a Dual Core 3ghz. Was also thinking about replacing my video card with...I don't know, a 5770 or something.

That means I could keep the whole "upgrade" close to or under $200. Do you think that would be worthwhile or should I just save that towards a new rig from the ground up?

 

[hylian_pirate]

So guys whenever I try to play TF2 (the only thing I'm playing at the moment), Windows starts acting weird after a while. First the sound stops working then videos don't run as smoothly as before. Only a restart returns everything to normal.

Could this be because of Catalyst 10.2?

Edit: Happened again even after turning it off

 

[Jim Stark]

I apologize if the answer to my question is very obvious and I'm just an idiot.

I'm looking to build a new computer this spring and I'm wondering if for the price triple channel and 2 x16 PCIe slots are worth it?

The two configurations I am bouncing between are

Core i7 920, ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Core i7 860, ASUS P7P55 WS NF200 LGA 1156 Intel P55, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Now, I've read that the 860 has a higher clock, but lower bandwidth, and the X58 can take advantage of triple channel and Crossfire GPUs both on x16 PCIe. My question is will the performance increases I get warrant the extra $500 price tag?

Thanks

 

[Slo]

Sweet, just got a bonus at work. Not going to have to wait to buy that 5850 after all.

 

[Slo]

I apologize if the answer to my question is very obvious and I'm just an idiot.

I'm looking to build a new computer this spring and I'm wondering if for the price triple channel and 2 x16 PCIe slots are worth it?

The two configurations I am bouncing between are

Core i7 920, ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Core i7 860, ASUS P7P55 WS NF200 LGA 1156 Intel P55, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Now, I've read that the 860 has a higher clock, but lower bandwidth, and the X58 can take advantage of triple channel and Crossfire GPUs both on x16 PCIe. My question is will the performance increases I get warrant the extra $500 price tag?

Thanks

Lots of benchmarks comparing the two processors here: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3641

 

[spazzfish]

I apologize if the answer to my question is very obvious and I'm just an idiot.

I'm looking to build a new computer this spring and I'm wondering if for the price triple channel and 2 x16 PCIe slots are worth it?

The two configurations I am bouncing between are

Core i7 920, ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Core i7 860, ASUS P7P55 WS NF200 LGA 1156 Intel P55, 6GB of Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600, 5850

Now, I've read that the 860 has a higher clock, but lower bandwidth, and the X58 can take advantage of triple channel and Crossfire GPUs both on x16 PCIe. My question is will the performance increases I get warrant the extra $500 price tag?

Thanks

It is better, but if your just playing games then imo it's not worth the extra investment. The money you would save maybe look at getting a SSD or a nice monitor. The direct performance between those two systems is not going to be noticeable even in benchmarks it's going to be next to nothing.
I think from memory running two top graphics cards in crossfire on x16 pci lanes over x8 equates to up to 4% advantage.
The p55 system will run one lane at x16 anyway and is more then enough for the card you want or any dual gpu card.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Looks like I missed the all the 5830 talk. The vibe I'm getting is "Don't bother." I plan to Crossfire my 5770, I figure it's the best price/performance.

I plan on doing the same. I have been running the same 3870 Crossfire setup forever and it has served me well. Hopefully I can find some 5770s in the $120 price range soon.

 

[Romance Pie]

I'd like to buy an aftermarket cooler so that I can OC my e8400. I have a MSI p45 platinum in a mid-tower case.

I'm thinking about the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus. I like the price, I like the reviews. It's supposed to be "compact", but I'm a little concerned about whether it will fit onto my mobo. Measuring, 160 mm wide puts it overlapping a little bit with one of my DIMM slots. It looks like the edge is raised a bit, so I'm thinking it might fit, but just make that DIMM not useable, which would be okay.

Any advice? Or other comparable coolers that are smaller?

Edit: Or I could get the Coolermaster Hyper TX3. It's smaller, cheaper, easier to install, and not as good, but supposedly the e8400 is a breeze to oc to 4 ghz.

Thoughts?

Where did you get 160mm? the fin area will only be 120mmx120mm, and it looks like it will be only 55mm thick (80mm with fan mounted)

Having a look on the net some people have put the Ultima 120 on that board so I think you should be safe.

 

[rollingstart]

You'd want it blowing in the same direction as the nearest case fan.

If it has that small 3 pin connector, then ya.

thanks

I was thinking about it, and one of the fans is better for the headsink, and it even comes with a bunch of converters, so I'll use the fan that came with the heatsink next to the hard drives instead.

 

[Shanlei91]

So I got someone to put together my PC for me. (yay)

Now, I want to buy Crysis as well as other games but it is my understanding that there is this nasty thing called DRM which on PC's could mean the equivalent of a legal virus.

Do Steam downloads not have this crap? Is there a way to avoid it and still be able to purchase via retail? I need info.

 

[lachesis]

So.. upon researching, I gave up the idea of doing systemwide water cooling. Too much hastle.

Instead, I'm trying to reduce my noise as much as possible.. and I'm hoping with these 2 out-of-box watercooling + 120mm fan combo, I'd be able to turn off at least 1-2 fans... but I'm not sure which one I really should go with.

Again, I'm not looking for any super O'C. Maybe just a few hz up, maybe - but nothing too extreme.. but I do want the system to be dead quiet, as much as possible. Right now P182 x 4 120mm case fan running at low speed + zalman 9700nt + 8800 GTS 512mb fan are making little too much noise...

Coolit Domino A.L.C.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001LKMU56/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Pro: Has 3 settings of speed - so I can control the fan manually.
Con: High performance is loud.


Colsair H50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010&Tpk=corsair h50

Pro: Well, it's a brand that I like and trust. Available at NE, which I prefer dealing with. According to few reviews, it does seem to perform better than above model.
Con: No fan control I can see. Might be noisier than above Coolit Domino running at Low.


Coolit ECO A.L.C.
http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.php/eco.html

Pro: I really like the simple look!
Con: Seems like it's the worst performing above all. Being new, I don't see too many reviews yet... and a review I saw, was pretty disappointing in terms of its performance.


I also thought about Zalman's standing tower thingie with fanless cooling... but I just don't want anything standing by the cpu, and so big.... (even though it'd be the quietest of all being fanless)...

Can anyone recommend any of above, or have first hand experience with any of above..? I'm looking for cooling i7 920 with mild overclocking with very quiet operation noise..

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

So I got someone to put together my PC for me. (yay)

Now, I want to buy Crysis as well as other games but it is my understanding that there is this nasty thing called DRM which on PC's could mean the equivalent of a legal virus.

Do Steam downloads not have this crap? Is there a way to avoid it and still be able to purchase via retail? I need info.

if a game on steam has drm it'll say on the store page

 

[Odious Tea]

i5 at 4ghz without breaking a sweat. Really pleased with my build so far. Idles at 40C and the max I've seen is 71C when under full load by p95. Is that within a safe range?


(Image is clickable)

 

[vocab]

i5 at 4ghz without breaking a sweat. Really pleased with my build so far. Idles at 40C and the max I've seen is 71C when under full load by p95. Is that within a safe range?


(Image is clickable)

What kind of cooler? 71 is really low.

 

[Odious Tea]

What kind of cooler? 71 is really low.

Hyper 212+ with Arctic Silver 5.

 

[vocab]

Hyper 212+ with Arctic Silver 5.

Really? I'm surprised.

 

[Odious Tea]

Really? I'm surprised.

Me too. Given that it was so damn cheap. Like, $30.

 

[Jim Stark]

Thanks Spazz and Slo, those benchmarks and your input made my decision for me. Turbo mode on the 860 sounds awesome!

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Got an easy question for you computer experts:

Does buying a "silent" case actually work? Right now I have a Cooler Master Centurion 5, Zalman heatsink, Radeon 4850, and two loud WD harddrives. I don't really play much PC games (probably 2-3 games a year) and It's nice to have a decent computer when I need to but I cannot deal with the noise! If I just throw everything I have into one of those Antecs silent towers will I actually notice a difference in a silent room, or will it still be noisy? Also what silent towers would you suggest? Thanks.

I would say don't waste money on a 'silent' case - few are going to contan the noise some parts make, eg a GPU will literally exhaust noise out of the back.

I have a budget version of your Coolermaster case and made it really quiet with aftermarket coolers and a 120mm fan. I can vouch for the Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo on the GPU side, and for the CPU any cooler that emits 30dB of noise is good.

 

[Shambles]

I would say don't waste money on a 'silent' case - few are going to contan the noise some parts make, eg a GPU will literally exhaust noise out of the back.

I have a budget version of your Coolermaster case and made it really quiet with aftermarket coolers and a 120mm fan. I can vouch for the Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo on the GPU side, and for the CPU any cooler that emits 30dB of noise is good.

Agreed, it's the components, not the case that makes your computer quiet. Your GPU/CPU/PSU fans will be much louder than your case fans ever will. Not to mention case fans are just as often sold serperately from cases as they are included. If you're very focused on a silent PC there are lower-power choices for components that are passively cooled and you can build an entire PC (HTPC usually) without a single fan or moving part in it.

 

[Lkr]

71 is cool? Damn, I wish I had an i5. I freak out when my PII X3/4 gets up to 46 on idle. I'm scared I'm harming it(fuck you OCD)

 

[SePhoBroth]

Hey Odious Tea, you mind posting your setup? I'm trying to build I5 comp and maybe I can use yours to go by.

edit; just saw your set-up on page 64.

 

[ChoklitReign]

Regarding cases, is there any difference between the cooling efficiency of the Cooler Master Centurion 5 and the Cooler Master Elite 335?

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Agreed, it's the components, not the case that makes your computer quiet. Your GPU/CPU/PSU fans will be much louder than your case fans ever will. Not to mention case fans are just as often sold serperately from cases as they are included. If you're very focused on a silent PC there are lower-power choices for components that are passively cooled and you can build an entire PC (HTPC usually) without a single fan or moving part in it.

Indeed. Another thing to consider is that noise is often directly proportional to heat, so if you do need to have moving parts with an unlocked fan speed, I would invest in really good thermal paste such as MX-2. Those few degrees you save make a lot of difference if your fan runs 10% slower as a result.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Regarding cases, is there any difference between the cooling efficiency of the Cooler Master Centurion 5 and the Cooler Master Elite 335?

Funny you should mention this as I own an Elite 355.

I would imagine it's not much - similar size (I think?), and the 355's rear fan does a pretty awesome job imo. The amount of room inside is crazy and helps with the air flow. I can't imagine the materials making much difference apart from maybe noise insulation.

 

[Odious Tea]

Has anyone had trouble with a 5770 where it crashes the system by either displaying vertical lines or a black screen?

 

[Hellsing321]

Has anyone had trouble with a 5770 where it crashes the system by either displaying vertical lines or a black screen?

That's a major problem that lots of 5000 series cards are having. People have been suggesting all kinds of fixes, like uninstalling Catalyst Control Center and installing ATI Tray Tools in its place, or under clocking the video card . Some people have had success with the 10.3 Beta drivers. Some have even fixed it by replacing their RAM. I had this problem too and I fixed it by going into my BIOS and disabling C3/C6/C7 state support. Been stable for about a week now. Before I'd be lucky for the computer to last an hour.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=124747&enterthread=y
here's a thread on the ATI forums about the issue.

 

[K.Jack]

You want to see a worthless 5830, look up the Mobility version.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Whelp, my pc is finally complete! Got my newer graphics card today.

Phenom II x3 720 Black Edition processor OCed from 2.8Ghz stock to 3.6Ghz
4GB DDR3
BFG OC Geforce GTX 275 graphics card (Holy crap this thing is huge! It completely dwarfs my 8800GT 2 times over and then some!)
2x500GB HDD

All this housed in my nice new Antec P183 case.

My wallet cries no more. This will me my PC for a long long while! :lol

 

[Pachinko]

Yeah I just made a bitch fest thread on that ATI issue.

This was ATI's last chance with me and the blew it. A shame too because when the card works it's smokingly fast. A couple months ago after seeing them unveil the 5000 series I was all "sweet, nvidia will be sucking shit after this" and hearing about nvidias issues with fermi I was content to see an ati/amd future but not anymore.

 

[Hitokage]

I would say don't waste money on a 'silent' case - few are going to contan the noise some parts make, eg a GPU will literally exhaust noise out of the back.

Going to disagree here. Maybe it's because the standard for cases has risen over the years so there's less of a distinction, but any case with 80mm fans is going to be shitty at being silent no matter what your components are simply because running those 80mm fans at high rpms is inescapable. Another concern is the PSU getting air from the CPU, meaning it has warmer air to deal with and has to work harder to cool itself.

What you need to keep in mind is that silencing a PC is a holistic process. Everything you buy needs to have noise level in mind. The case, the case fans and their speed, the heat output of your CPU(don't overclock), the heatsink attached to the CPU(the better it works the less the fan has to), the fan attached to the heatsink and its speed, the cooling solution on your video card, the efficiency of your power supply as well as its cooling solution, and so on. All of it matters, and as such a "silent case" takes you that extra mile after everything else is considered, especially one that contains harddrive vibration.

 

[Odious Tea]

That's a major problem that lots of 5000 series cards are having. People have been suggesting all kinds of fixes, like uninstalling Catalyst Control Center and installing ATI Tray Tools in its place, or under clocking the video card . Some people have had success with the 10.3 Beta drivers. Some have even fixed it by replacing their RAM. I had this problem too and I fixed it by going into my BIOS and disabling C3/C6/C7 state support. Been stable for about a week now. Before I'd be lucky for the computer to last an hour.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=124747&enterthread=y
here's a thread on the ATI forums about the issue.

I guess I'll try the 10.3 beta, since I can't find C3/C6/C7 in my bios.

 

[Hellsing321]

I guess I'll try the 10.3 beta, since I can't find C3/C6/C7 in my bios.

Whats your Mobo brand?

 

[Odious Tea]

Whats your Mobo brand?

ASRock P55 Extreme. Running an i5 750, if it matters at all.

 

[vocab]

The Ati issue is odd because it doesn't effect everyone. My 5850 has been smooth sailing since day 1. I'm pushing the hell out of it in overclocking. I still got some room to squeeze on stock voltage. Currently at 790/1150

 

[Odious Tea]

The Ati issue is odd because it doesn't effect everyone. My 5850 has been smooth sailing since day 1. I'm pushing the hell out of it in overclocking. I still got some room to squeeze on stock voltage. Currently at 790/1150

I can't play 15 mins of a game without it crashing my entire system. :/

 

[vocab]

I can't play 15 mins of a game without it crashing my entire system. :/

What drivers do you currently have?