"I need a New PC!" 2011 Thread of reading the OP. Seriously. [Part 2]

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gokieks said:
Using offsets is usually the way to go, but disabling LLC for OCing is a terrible idea, especially on ASUS boards. You absolutely need LLC enabled to prevent VDrop causing stability problems at idle.
I have a P8P67 deluxe and have no issue with LLC disable running at 4.5/4.8GHz. And, Vdrop occurs under load when you can't provide a stable current, and thus, LLC is use to try to correct the problem. It should not be happening at idle.

gokieks said:
High should be fine. Did you also disable all power saving states (C1E, C3, C6, etc)?

And I would run CPU-Z or some other monitor utility while it's idling to see what the VCore is when it BSODs.
Disabling C1, C3 and C6 will force the CPU to run at full speed all the time. It will not downclock to 1.6GHz. That's not a good idea.
 
with offset I keep LLC set to whatever is default

High LLC levels are great with manual voltage, but with offset enabled I then end up doing 1.5+volt everytime which nobody really wants for daily usage :p

end yeah I run 4.8 stable on a 2600K with just the PLL overvoltage enabled, Offset to +0.185 and the VRM phase thing Hz to 350. Everything else default. p8p67 pro
 
grkazan12 said:
Hmmm just got a BSOD while on offset should I put a certain value in the offset voltage or should I just leave it as auto. The value can be between 0.005 and 0.635.
What was your max voltage running Prime95 using the auto overclock tool? Now, with just offset, enter a number that would make it equal to what you get running Prime95. You may need to adjust it a few times to get it exactly the same. And, your computer will probably BSOD a few times because the offset number you tried were too low. Use HWmonitor so you can see what the max CPU voltage is everytime you increase the offset number.
 
So got my 6 pin to 8 pin adapter today. Though I'm now having some second touch wether or not I should just wait for my new PSU. So does the reliable PC-gaf think that a 6+2 pci-e power connector and 6 pin converted to 8 pin is enough for 580 gtx, until my new PSU finally arrives ( never doing business again with that shop)
 
TheExodu5 said:
There are definitely better air coolers out there than the H212+...it's just that most people don't really need the added performance and noise reduction.
I can barely hear my CPU as it is, especially when that vaccum cleaner of a graphics card (hd4890) starts up)

XiaNaphryz said:
The Noctua for example is way larger in size.
emot-stare.gif
 
Gvaz said:
http://www.vortez.net/articles_page...extreme_performance_liquid_cpu_cooler,13.html

Lots of CPU coolers, 212+ comes in near the bottom, although that doesn't change the fact it's still a good cooler for the price. (Just used the H100 review since it's the most recent one).

Silver Arrow is probably the best high end value at $80 shipped. Unless the PH-TC14PE ends up getting released in North America for less than expected, or something better comes along, I'll probably get a Silver Arrow when I upgrade.

Yaska said:
So got my 6 pin to 8 pin adapter today. Though I'm now having some second touch wether or not I should just wait for my new PSU. So does the reliable PC-gaf think that a 6+2 pci-e power connector and 6 pin converted to 8 pin is enough for 580 gtx, until my new PSU finally arrives ( never doing business again with that shop)
I'm not 100% sure on this so it would be nice if somebody else weighed in, but I think the extra two pins on the 8-pin cable are just ground. So you should be fine using an adapter.

Edit: That said, it's always better to not use adapters for powering GPUs if possible.
 
knitoe said:
I have a P8P67 deluxe and have no issue with LLC disable running at 4.5/4.8GHz. And, Vdrop occurs under load when you can't provide a stable current, and thus, LLC is use to try to correct the problem. It should not be happening at idle.

You're thinking of Vdroop, which is lowered Vcore during load, Vdrop is lowered Vcore during idle. LLC tries to correct both.

knitoe said:
Disabling C1, C3 and C6 will force the CPU to run at full speed all the time. It will not downclock to 1.6GHz. That's not a good idea.

No, if SpeedStep and EIST are enabled, it will still downclock at idle, but the voltage may be different. I'm asking him to disable those to check whether that solves the idle BSOD issue.

n0n44m said:
with offset I keep LLC set to whatever is default

High LLC levels are great with manual voltage, but with offset enabled I then end up doing 1.5+volt everytime which nobody really wants for daily usage :p

end yeah I run 4.8 stable on a 2600K with just the PLL overvoltage enabled, Offset to +0.185 and the VRM phase thing Hz to 350. Everything else default. p8p67 pro

Your situation is different because you're running a positive offset. For most people running a 2500/2600K at 4.4~4.5GHz, they actually should be using a negative offset because the stock load VID is actually higher than necessary for those clock speeds - my 2500K, for example, is at 4.4 is on a -0.1 offset. The problem negative offset introduces is that it applies to idle VID as well, so the idle Vcore may end up being lower than what is needed to stably run the CPU at its SpeedStep minimum frequency (1.6GHz). With a positive offset that never becomes a problem (though you will be running at a rather higher Vcore than necessary during idle).
 
XiaNaphryz said:
[mg]http://i.imgur.com/5sr8s.jpg[/img]

[mg]http://i.imgur.com/Qvsz6.jpg[/img]

[mg]http://i.imgur.com/hs6Gf.jpg[/img]
emot-stare.gif
emot-stare.gif

I don't care if it supercools my CPU and makes me breakfast in the morning. $85 and half as big as my motherboard is absurd. Jesus christ I'd rather pay more for watercooling and deal with the maintenance.

My hyper 212+ is large enough.
 
Gvaz said:
emot-stare.gif
emot-stare.gif

I don't care if it supercools my CPU and makes me breakfast in the morning. $85 and half as big as my motherboard is absurd. Jesus christ I'd rather pay more for watercooling and deal with the maintenance.

My hyper 212+ is large enough.

I don't think you quite understand the enthusiast computer market. Excess is the common place all in the name of a few degrees Celsius cooler or a .1 MHz higher clock.

Point is, yes, a lot of computer parts are overkill/overpriced and not worth it.
 
gokieks said:
You're thinking of Vdroop, which is lowered Vcore during load, Vdrop is lowered Vcore during idle. LLC tries to correct both.
LLC = Load Line Calibration. That should answer whether it's for under load or idle. And, it can cause voltage spikes which can happen so quickly that even monitoring programs can see. Thus, it's best to have it disable unless your really need it, ie extreme overclocking 4.8GHz or above.



gokieks said:
No, if SpeedStep and EIST are enabled, it will still downclock at idle, but the voltage may be different. I'm asking him to disable those to check whether that solves the idle BSOD issue.
How about you go into bios, disable them, come back and tell us. Hint: It won't if it's set to auto / disable. At least with Asus MB, many people, including me, have reported CPU will run at full speed after a bios flash because those settings are set to auto = disable.

gokieks said:
Your situation is different because you're running a positive offset. For most people running a 2500/2600K at 4.4~4.5GHz, they actually should be using a negative offset because the stock load VID is actually higher than necessary for those clock speeds - my 2500K, for example, is at 4.4 is on a -0.1 offset. The problem negative offset introduces is that it applies to idle VID as well, so the idle Vcore may end up being lower than what is needed to stably run the CPU at its SpeedStep minimum frequency (1.6GHz). With a positive offset that never becomes a problem (though you will be running at a rather higher Vcore than necessary during idle).
As I stated early, if he disable other settings that add a % to voltage total under load, he would surely be using the offset+. Thus, making idle voltage higher while keeping the same load voltage.
 
Okay so I tried the ultra high and high setting for load line calibration to see if that would help me in over clocking, now it freezes right when I get to the desktop this is with power save states (C1E,C3,C6) disabled and enabled. I changed dram voltage from 1.5 to the original value 1.65, but I doubt that had any effect. I just. Have no idea what to do, everything I tried has just ended up crashing my computer.

Should I just go back to 4.0 ghz?
Is there any way I can get the EFI to make everything the way it was before over clocking?
Should I have internal PLL over voltage enabled because it says that it's ideal for over clocking k CPUs?
 
grkazan12 said:
Okay so I tried the ultra high and high setting for load line calibration to see if that would help me in over clocking, now it freezes right when I get to the desktop this is with power save states (C1E,C3,C6) disabled and enabled. I changed dram voltage from 1.5 to the original value 1.65, but I doubt that had any effect. I just. Have no idea what to do, everything I tried has just ended up crashing my computer.

Should I just go back to 4.0 ghz?
Is there any way I can get the EFI to make everything the way it was before over clocking?
There should be no reason to change dram voltage. Doing so could easily crash your computer. Set the dram voltage and timings to whatever the specs says.

Load up default / optimized settings in the bios. Run the auto overclocking tool. In Windows, use HWmonitor and Prime95 to see your max cpu voltage under load. That's the number you need to get to if you change other settings. For example, lets say the LLC adds 0.030V. If you disable LLC, you will need to make up for the loss voltage. With offset+, you will need to add 0.030V. If you disable even more settings, obviously, you will need to add more to the offset+.
 
Gvaz said:
emot-stare.gif
emot-stare.gif

I don't care if it supercools my CPU and makes me breakfast in the morning. $85 and half as big as my motherboard is absurd. Jesus christ I'd rather pay more for watercooling and deal with the maintenance.

My hyper 212+ is large enough.
Smokey said:
Anddddd this is why I went with a Corsair H70.
Haters, the lot of you!
 
Smash88 said:
These CPU coolers are getting more and more ridiculous looking.... lol
Prolimatech%20Genesis%203-420-90.jpg


Genesis and V10 probably take the cake for most ridiculous looking, in my opinion.

ombz said:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b187/Holly99/Capture-1.png
Would the graphics card I put in the cart work with the PSU and motherboard in the combo deal?
That PSU technically provides about 54 amps between both 12v rails, although it's going to be less depending on how much power it's using elsewhere. But yeah, it should run that GPU.
 
knitoe said:
There should be no reason to change dram voltage. Doing so could easily crash your computer. Set the dram voltage and timings to whatever the specs says.

Load up default / optimized settings in the bios. Run the auto overclocking tool. In Windows, use HWmonitor and Prime95 to see your max cpu voltage under load. That's the number you need to get to if you change other settings. For example, lets say the LLC adds 0.030V. If you disable LLC, you will need to make up for the loss voltage. With offset+, you will need to add 0.030V. If you disable even more settings, obviously, you will need to add more to the offset+.

Alright, so everything is at default settings so I can start fresh again. Now, do you mean the auto overclocking tool in the EFI, what is it called?
 
knitoe said:
LLC = Load Line Calibration. That should answer whether it's for under load or idle. And, it can cause voltage spikes which can happen so quickly that even monitoring programs can see. Thus, it's best to have it disable unless your really need it, ie extreme overclocking 4.8GHz or above.

There's technically no such thing as truly "idle", only (very) light vs heavy load. The name is just a name - what LLC does is try to keep the Vcore more constant under both light and heavy loads. And yes, it's ideal to have it disabled because you usually want the lowest voltage possible under all cases. But when Vcore fluctuations are causing instability, as his situation seems to be, it should be turned on.

knitoe said:
How about you go into bios, disable them, come back and tell us. Hint: It won't if it's set to auto / disable. At least with Asus MB, many people, including me, have reported CPU will run at full speed after a bios flash because those settings are set to auto = disable.

My Asus Z68 board definitely underclocks to 1.6GHz with EIST on and C3/C6 disabled - if the P67 boards don't, that's a specific issue/quirk with that board then. But EIST and C-states are distinct and turning off the C-states should not prevent EIST from working.

knitoe said:
As I stated early, if he disable other settings that add a % to voltage total under load, he would surely be using the offset+. Thus, making idle voltage higher while keeping the same load voltage.

Disabling LLC and using a positive offset means running the system at a higher Vcore than enabling LLC and using a negative offset in most situations (especially light to medium loads)... it may make it easier to reach stability, but comes at a cost of power consumption and possibly longetivity.

grkazan12 said:
Okay so I tried the ultra high and high setting for load line calibration to see if that would help me in over clocking, now it freezes right when I get to the desktop this is with power save states (C1E,C3,C6) disabled and enabled. I changed dram voltage from 1.5 to the original value 1.65, but I doubt that had any effect. I just. Have no idea what to do, everything I tried has just ended up crashing my computer.

Should I just go back to 4.0 ghz?
Is there any way I can get the EFI to make everything the way it was before over clocking?
Should I have internal PLL over voltage enabled because it says that it's ideal for over clocking k CPUs?

Were you able to get it running stable at any frequency between 4.0 and 4.5? What I would do reset everything to default settings, then start raising the Turbo multiplier (start at 40, probably) and stress test until it either is not stable under stress testing, or it reaches a higher Vcore than you're comfortable with (I try to keep mine at or under 1.35V under load). If it's crashing under stress testing, then enable LLC and increase the Vcore via offset in small increments until it becomes stable. If it's stable but running at a too-high Vcore, then reduce the offset in small increments until it is no longer stable, then increase the offset again.
 
gokieks said:
There's technically no such thing as truly "idle", only (very) light vs heavy load. The name is just a name - what LLC does is try to keep the Vcore more constant under both light and heavy loads. And yes, it's ideal to have it disabled because you usually want the lowest voltage possible under all cases. But when Vcore fluctuations are causing instability, as his situation seems to be, it should be turned on.
His problem is with idling which probably means voltage drops too low and not from lack of constant voltage. Disabling it and just using offset will fix that problem. Plus, you won't have to worry about voltage spikes that could be very harmful to CPU.



gokieks said:
My Asus Z68 board definitely underclocks to 1.6GHz with EIST on and C3/C6 disabled - if the P67 boards don't, that's a specific issue/quirk with that board then. But EIST and C-states are distinct and turning off the C-states should not prevent EIST from working.
You forgot about disabling C1.



gokieks said:
Disabling LLC and using a positive offset means running the system at a higher Vcore than enabling LLC and using a negative offset in most situations (especially light to medium loads)... it may make it easier to reach stability, but comes at a cost of power consumption and possibly longetivity.
You will run higher voltage under idle, but not at max under load. Once again, will fix the guy's problem. And, going from idling of 0.098-1.00V vs 1.001-1010V won't make much difference in power cost or longevity.
 
DRW
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
$20.99

Case
NZXT Source 210 Elite Black Steel with painted interior ATX Mid Tower Computer Case w/ Black Front Trim
$59.99

HDD
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$59.99

GPU
EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1461-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
$199.99



PSU
CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 V2 430W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
$44.99

RAM
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMV4GX3M2A1333C9
$29.99

Mobo:
BIOSTAR TH67B LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
$84.99

CPU:
Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I32100
$124.99


Hey guys, I'm super new at this. I took the suggested build and tweaked it just a little. Will it work? Is the PSU enough?

Help? Should I just splurge on the i5-2500? I'm not looking for a super computer, just something to play SWTOR with no problems, and possibly something I can upgrade pretty trouble free in the future.
 
Alright, so I've been using my PC (absolutely loving it!) and have Alpha Protocol (I could afford 2$, that is about it) and the free Team Fortress 2.

Since I'm new to PC gaming I don't know how to fix it... TF2 has a screen stutter where I get this little flicker once in a while. Any ideas on how to fix this?
 
How quickly are Blu-Ray burner prices dropping? And the media?

Basically is it cheap enough to use for backups yet? Or should I wait another 6 months or so?
 
opticalmace said:
How quickly are Blu-Ray burner prices dropping? And the media?

Basically is it cheap enough to use for backups yet? Or should I wait another 6 months or so?

The cheapest I've seen is about 4c a GB for blu ray media, thats pretty cheap. For backup it depends on how often and how much your backing up. I prefer HDDs for backup just because its reusable, allows incremental backups and is automated.

Burners are holding steady in the $80-120 range and probably won't drop much in 6 months.
 
Is there a noticeable difference in 1333mhz and 1600mhz for 8GB RAM?

I'm building a gaming rig soon and found some 1333mhz 8gig ram for £29, is it worth paying an extra £15 for 1600mhz? Edit: also are there any benefits from having 8GB for gaming or would 4GB do just as well?
 
Mulligan said:
Is there a noticeable difference in 1333mhz and 1600mhz for 8GB RAM?

I'm building a gaming rig soon and found some 1333mhz 8gig ram for £29, is it worth paying an extra £15 for 1600mhz? Edit: also are there any benefits from having 8GB for gaming or would 4GB do just as well?
Wouldn't spend that much extra for 1600mhz, you won't see any real world difference.

And 8GB won't do you much good over 4GB, but RAM prices also aren't going to get any cheaper, so it's worth it to invest now instead of deciding down the road you want more RAM and end up paying more.
 
DMPrince said:
Would this be a good tv for pc and ps3? i'm planning to move my ps3 on my desk so i don't have to move around to play game.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U5T2P0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

figured this would work? i don't need anything big. i'm not a size whore.

for some reason, i think that if you're in that size range, getting a monitor is preferable to getting a tv. both can receive inputs from either source, but.... someone more well versed in the subject will comment, i suppose. if not, i suggest you do more research before your purchase.
 
Gaf, I tried hooking my PC to my receiver and it didn't work. This is what I did.

DVI-HDMI converter > HDMI IN Receiver > HDMI Out Receiver > HDMI TV

I got a green screen when I turned on my computer.
 
The latest beta drivers from nvidia have been nothing but problems for me. A few hours after I turn on my pc, and I get this driver failure messages in the windows notification area. Anyone else having this problem?
 
Le-mo said:
Gaf, I tried hooking my PC to my receiver and it didn't work. This is what I did.

DVI-HDMI converter > HDMI IN Receiver > HDMI Out Receiver > HDMI TV

I got a green screen when I turned on my computer.

Your receiver/TV may want an HDCP connection and you won't get that out of DVI. Check your receiver manual to see what it says about HDCP and what GPU are you using?


Lasthope106 said:
The latest beta drivers from nvidia have been nothing but problems for me. A few hours after I turn on my pc, and I get this driver failure messages in the windows notification area. Anyone else having this problem?

I've been using them no problem but if they're giving you troubles use the WQHL drivers not beta.
 
A cautionary tale for anyone thinking of using a TV as a monitor: After two to three years of use, my 46" Samsung LCD has developed the nasty habit of image retention. Basically, if I leave anything static on the screen for a few minutes, it will "burn in" to the screen, and be visible as a ghost image, just like what used to happen with CRT's and Plasma's. Only running a white image on it for hours will reduce the IR, and even then, I can't get it to go away completely.

If you don't want to flush a grand or two down the toilet, it may be best to not use a TV as a monitor. Unless I've just gotten a faulty model or something (it was fine for two years so...meh)


Lasthope106 said:
The latest beta drivers from nvidia have been nothing but problems for me. A few hours after I turn on my pc, and I get this driver failure messages in the windows notification area. Anyone else having this problem?

No problems here, using the beta drivers.
 
LordCanti said:
A cautionary tale for anyone thinking of using a TV as a monitor: After two to three years of use, my 46" Samsung LCD has developed the nasty habit of image retention. Basically, if I leave anything static on the screen for a few minutes, it will "burn in" to the screen, and be visible as a ghost image, just like what used to happen with CRT's and Plasma's. Only running a white image on it for hours will reduce the IR, and even then, I can't get it to go away completely.

If you don't want to flush a grand or two down the toilet, it may be best to not use a TV as a monitor. Unless I've just gotten a faulty model or something (it was fine for two years so...meh)
No problems here, using the beta drivers.

Ugh I've had a plasma for 6 Year now and its now showing burn in. Its really annoying during dark movies to see the residual image of the cable channel menu....
 
scogoth said:
Your receiver/TV may want an HDCP connection and you won't get that out of DVI. Check your receiver manual to see what it says about HDCP and what GPU are you using?




I've been using them no problem but if they're giving you troubles use the WQHL drivers not beta.
When I hooked it up to my T.V. it worked fine its only when I hooked it up to my receiver t hat I get a green screen. My GPU is an Asus HD Radeon 6950 1GB and for some reason the GPU only comes with display/DVI ports, no HDMI.
 
lsslave said:
Alright, so I've been using my PC (absolutely loving it!) and have Alpha Protocol (I could afford 2$, that is about it) and the free Team Fortress 2.

Since I'm new to PC gaming I don't know how to fix it... TF2 has a screen stutter where I get this little flicker once in a while. Any ideas on how to fix this?
sounds like screen tearing, maybe turn on v sync in the graphics option menu
 
mug said:
Yeah you're fine.

chaosblade said:
That PSU technically provides about 54 amps between both 12v rails, although it's going to be less depending on how much power it's using elsewhere. But yeah, it should run that GPU.

Thank you for your responses :)
I ended up going with a combo of the same components but with 4gb of ram instead of 8. It was actually by accident but I don't mind saving 50 dollars.
 
ok so i posted here earlier about upgrading my vid card, but i have decieded to do a small upgrade worth 600$ to my pc. Im running an athalon 4 core right now and can not run crossfire or sli on my motherboard. Should i switch to intel or what?
 
mcrae said:
for some reason, i think that if you're in that size range, getting a monitor is preferable to getting a tv. both can receive inputs from either source, but.... someone more well versed in the subject will comment, i suppose. if not, i suggest you do more research before your purchase.
it's more of the ps3. the monitor i have have shit built in speaker and i use external speakers. and i have no idea how i would get sound without having to buy extra things. i guess this is the cheapest way? figure ps3 use the built in speaker from the tv. and when i play pc games i can use the external speakers i have.

but i want to make sure it's good for pc gaming.

unless there's a monitor with built in speakers and have a volume control. i think i saw some dell monitors (and other brands on amazon) you can buy a soundbar for it. Unsure what would be best option since at this price for vizio it's better? IDK.
 
scogoth said:
Ugh I've had a plasma for 6 Year now and its now showing burn in. Its really annoying during dark movies to see the residual image of the cable channel menu....

The entire BF3 HUD has been in my screen since the beta started. As you can imagine, watching any sort of video is annoying, as I've got to try to look past the logos.

I'll be replacing this thing soon. I'll probably wait for Q4 deals.
 
I'm having quite a problem here. This is my 4th pc build, and only one that has caused me problems.
It's an i5 system with Asus mobo, cooler master 212+ cpu cooler and an hd6950.
Everything is connected properly, but i'm getting no video output. The computer stays on, all fans are spinning, lights on the motherboard are on, but nothing is coming out of the screen.

Anyone have any clue as to where to start?
Also, i dont know if this would make any difference, but my stupid friend has no USB keyboards or mice in his house (he has the purple and green connector versions).

Any help would be amazing!

EDIT: yea stupid mistake. Plugged in a keyboard and mouse. Everything works fine. Windows installing as I type :)
 
chrisisawesome said:
I'm having quite a problem here. This is my 4th pc build, and only one that has caused me problems.
It's an i5 system with Asus mobo, cooler master 212+ cpu cooler and an hd6950.
Everything is connected properly, but i'm getting no video output. The computer stays on, all fans are spinning, lights on the motherboard are on, but nothing is coming out of the screen.

Anyone have any clue as to where to start?
Also, i dont know if this would make any difference, but my stupid friend has no USB keyboards or mice in his house (he has the purple and green connector versions).

Any help would be amazing!

Does your motherboard have video out, and or do you have a different card you can try? Go with motherboard out first if you can. Also, try a different cable just to be sure.
 
Got my 3D Vision kit with my 2nd Lightning a few weeks ago but just hooked it up today. Amazing is all I can say. Up to this point I've played console games in 3D on my Samsung D8000 and the experience was sub par. Sub HD, often times <30fps. Just a horrible experience.

But this? This is crazy. And beautiful. So far I've tried The Witcher 2 and Crysis 2. C2 looks great in 3D, but TW2 blew my mind . In its original state TW2 is one of the best looking games, but in 3D it takes it to a whole nother level. Simply jaw dropping. I am in love. I get no cross talk on my Asus monitor and my FPS has almost always stayed at 60fps. So good. This is one of the reasons I built the machine I did .
 
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