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I think Angel is the greatest show in the history of television.

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Finally, I'm able to use a computer again! Quick thoughts after skimming the main board:

The RE4 PS2 port was totally unexpected, shocking, really. How many times did Capcom scream that it wouldn't be ported this generation or next? Seems like these days you can't even trust the companies making the games themselves, never mind the bullshit the hardware makers spout.

PSP price was a suprise. Looks like the Nintendoo is in trouble. Another victory for Sony!

Umm... that's pretty much the only real news that I've seen. I guess a lot doesn't really happen in a month. Not this time, at least.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SERIOUS SPOILERS FROM HERE ON DOWN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I've been in New Jersey for almost a month now (with a few more days to go before I head back), and the people I'm staying with have Angel seasons 1-3 on DVD. Some bullshit happened (and is still happening) with my friends and without a car I've been pretty much confined to their home this whole time while they've been out. Strangely or not-so-strangely, this resulted in me discovering the greatest show I have ever seen. I don't watch a lot of tv, mind you, but I once did years back. Nowadays the only thing I watch on the tube is news, daily show, and adult swim. Anyway...

Yesterday ended my viewing marathon. Some days I watched the episodes to the verge of passing out, and even then I didn't want to stop.

THE GREAT THING ABOUT ANGEL IS THAT THERE ARE ALMOST NO FILLER EPISODES IN ANY OF THE THREE SEASONS I VIEWED!! As far as that is concered, season 1 was the worst: it had 2 filler episodes, which were "She" (I think that was the name) and the Excorcist ripoff. SEASON 2 ONLY HAD ONE FILLER EPISODE!! (the one where the guy wanted to stop time as he ejaculated or some stupid shit like that) EVERY OTHER EPISODE WAS MAGNIFICENT!! Season 3, like season 1, had two filler episodes, but they weren't as bad as season 1's. Those episodes were the Birthday episode (even though the Doyle mention was nice) and the one where that casino demon wanted to collect Gunn's soul.

Season 1 was the least enjoyable of them all, but it was still awesome. Although flawed, it had a monster-of-the-week charm to it. It probably has the most charm of the 3, since the gang (can you call a group of 3 a gang?) is new to demon hunting and they're just getting their bearings. In other words, they still get freaked out by the stuff they see, which happens less and less in the later seasons. Episode to episode it felt kinda disjointed, something I didn't even notice until I watched season 2.

Season 2 is my favorite so far. It's incredibly close to perfect, with the relationship between Angel and Darla and how it affects the crew. There were a lot of seriously AWESOME cliffhangers: Darla crawling on top of Angel as he slept (I was like, "what the fuck?!!); "You're fired" (that was one of those times when I was near passing out from an all-day marathon, but I just HAD to watch the next one); Lorne's head on a platter; etc.

It was great how just about the entire season was so dreadful and doomy, and then with the last 4 episodes they throw in a quirky but very fun little quest into another dimension. It was GREAT to see Angel smiling again after he was so depressed the whole season. It was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders, because that whole time the show was making ME depressed. It was the perfect way to end the year. The dance of shame was awesome!!

Also, the sense of continuity is amazing. It seemed to pick up right where season 1 left off, and never deviated too long from the main plot of Angel and Darla. It made the story so much deeper than if they had only devoted one or two episodes to the issue, which was something season 1 and nearly every other tv show I've ever seen would have done. I never thought about how most shows plots are so confined to a single episode until I saw Angel. I just thought that was how tv shows were set up... Angel writers are geniuses of tv!

Season 3 was also amazing, even if I like 2 better. The best episodes here beat the best episodes of season 2, but overall I just thought season 2 had consistently better episodes. That same awesome sense of continuity is back, maybe even improved, and there are some very emotional moments that had me in tears.

There is one thing, however, that I hate about season 3. IT'S TOO FUCKING DEPRESSING!! Like season 2 on steroids, with no happy ending to make you feel better when the show's over. The ending actually kicks you when you're down! Never mind that, though... they fucked Wesley over!! He's my favorite character in all of tv, and they just completely screwed him! First he's distraught over the prophecy, and LIKE A TRUE FRIEND he diligantly works day and night trying to prove it wrong. Then he makes an extremely painful and difficult decision and kidnaps Conner, which is exactly the thing he SHOULD have done (if the prophecy had been legitament, how would Angel have felt if Wesley had done nothing and he sucked his own son dry?), and what happens next? He gets his throat slit! I felt sick, and was almost ready to just stop watching there and give up on the show, but I had to know what happened next. The mark of genius storytelling for sure. Then Angel tried to kill Wesley in his hospital bed. I remember repeating something over and over in shock, probably "holy shit", but I can't quite recall. I felt that sickness come back again, but this time it was mixed with a healthy dose of anger. Fuck Angel (the character), and fuck his crew for just abandoning Wesley like that. Even Gunn decided to just forget about him. Gunn! They were supposed to be homies! Fuck Gunn double.

Despite all that, I NEED to see season 4. Perhaps I'm a glutton for good drama. What I want to see out of it, though, is Wesley turn evil and fuck over all those assholes at Angel Investigations. He has the smarts to do it, and I want to see them suffer. I'll be purchasing season 4 as soon as I get back to my state of residence.

Anyone else in love with this show?
 
you havent seen anything yet...season 4 is the best season IMO. Yes angel was definatly the best show ever.

you might wanna pick up buffy seasons 1-3. season 1 isnt that great tho.
 

Iceman

Member
You either misspelled Firefly, or you forgot to add a "second" right before "greatest."

But yeah, loved every season.
 
Firefly does not deserve greatest show ever. It didn't get far enough to even become great. It had potential, but it never reached it. It only started to get interesting in like the last 5 eps. The first 6 were pretty mediocre and boring. It started picking up after that and then the last few were actually pretty good.
 

Tabris

Member
Next to Firefly, Angel is the greatest show ever.

Season 4 is definitely the best, and Season 5 is definitely up there. Season 4 is on dvd now, pick that up.
 

calder

Member
I'd say that Firefly would have been #1 if they'd finished the first season. As it is, I rate it no lower than third on my all-time list.


No one ever agrees with me, but Angel season 5 > season 4. Both are right at the top of my list of Greatest Seasons Ever.
 
I just don't see why Firefly is so loved and I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan. I believe it got canned before it was given a chance. I believe they were setting up some things that would have been nice during a full season. However, a lot of you seem to think it was the best thing created in the short 14 episodes when half of them aren't even good. Maybe it falls in line with the DS9 love which I think is highly overrated. DS9 when it was good, was really damn good, but there was so much down time and filler that you had to sit through so much just to get to the good stuff. Then again maybe it's just me as I didn't care for half the characters, didn't care about the Bajorians, hated the religious theme completely, and so forth. I watch a ton of TV shows, and sure Firefly had potential, but I don't think it earned its godly status that it has now. It has earned canned before its time and wasted potential, but not godly.
 
Angel's a blast and all, but the ambitious nature of Firefly coupled with the great TV writing puts it at the top of my list next to the first 4-5 seasons of the X-Files. Angel is great comic book fun, but it's also a very safe series.
 

Tabris

Member
Very safe series? Huh?!

There's nothing safe about Angel, it takes risks with it's characters all the time. The only reason Firefly is above it is cause the dialogue is just that one notch higher in terms of quality.

Oh, and just to break that whole MAF and me agreeing on something, X-Files was a horrid show.
 
I just don't see why Firefly is so loved and I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan.
I agree. I loved Buffy and Angel, but had zero interest in Firefly after watching a couple of early episodes.

As for the topic title, I'm almost in agreement. Angel is one of the best series I've ever watched. I thought all of the seasons were excellent, particularly seasons 4 and 2. Season 5 could have been top shelf but it started off so boring. The final 8-10 episodes were brilliant enough to redeem the season after the first 8 boring ones.

Up to this point in it's lifespan, I'd pick 24 (well duh) since it's captured my attention as much as it has, but I could see it faltering (season 3 wasn't good over the first 4-5 episodes).
 
Angel is safe because it doesn't push its trope at all -- there's no real divergence from the Anne Rice vampire genre in terms of content. It's just the X-Men of vampires, right down to the over-the-top two-dimensional character crises. It's certainly fun, but it defeinitely doesn't provide a new take on the whole vampire milieu.

Firefly, on the other hand, provides a very original take within its genre -- plus, one-liners aside, it's just plain better written and acted. (Not to diminish David Boreanaz rocking, of course.)
 
Why not explain what's so great about Firefly in the short run that it had? I believe it had great potential, but given we have only a handful of episodes, I hardly think it reached a level of greatness. I'm looking forward to the movie, and I did start to enjoy the series at the end, but that doesn't change the fact that the first like six episodes aren't good. In fact when I sat down again to give it a try, the first few episodes gave me flashbacks to when I tried watching it when it first aired. Everyone seems to gush with this unquestioned love about how great it is, but never really explains why. Even the dialog isn't up to par early on. The dialog is pretty dull. It wasn't until the dialog got better that the episodes actually got better. In the earlier episodes it had bits and moments where the dialog was good or the setup was good, but it was completely inconsistent and didn't flow nearly as well as the later episodes did.
 

Tabris

Member
Angel is safe because it doesn't push its trope at all -- there's no real divergence from the Anne Rice vampire genre in terms of content. It's just the X-Men of vampires, right down to the over-the-top two-dimensional character crises. It's certainly fun, but it defeinitely doesn't provide a new take on the whole vampire milieu.

Did we watch two different series?
 

Tabris

Member
Uhm... Dracula a long time ago.

Seen Interview with a Vampire.

Either way, yes, Angel is a genre show, so is Buffy. It was never about the genre though, that was always a back drop (well maybe later on for Buffy) to the characters.

2 dimensional characters? I find Angel and Spike to be some of the most dynamic characters on any television show I've ever seen.
 

Tabris

Member
Iceman said:
and why hasn't he seen firefly?

That is always a good question to ask!

If someone says "Do you watch Lost?", you say "Why haven't you seen Firefly?". If someone says "What time is it?", you say "Why haven't you seen Firefly?"
 
Oh and FYI, the time stopping episode was not filler. Its central theme was important to Angel's reform.

Angel needs to be depressing, because unlike Buffy's who central theme is umm Fight Evil or shag college guys, Angel's theme is all about redemption. But not just any redemption, endless redemption.

As pointed out in Season 2, there is no 'Win'. Angel can't finish redeeming himself for his past crimes, and once he comes to grips with that the entire dynamic of the show changes. Season 4 is incredible and out on dvd, season 5 is out in february.
 

LakeEarth

Member
calder said:
No one ever agrees with me, but Angel season 5 > season 4. Both are right at the top of my list of Greatest Seasons Ever.

See, if all of season 5 was the last 10 episodes, I'd agree. But season 5 started off a little too slow to beat season 4.
 

Tabris

Member
LakeEarth said:
See, if all of season 5 was the last 10 episodes, I'd agree. But season 5 started off a little too slow to beat season 4.

Season 5 was one of the few Angel seasons that actually started off good (season 4 started so badly except for the intial episode).

Both Lineage and Destiny were amazing episodes!
 

LakeEarth

Member
Tabris said:
Season 5 was one of the few Angel seasons that actually started off good (season 4 started so badly except for the intial episode).

Both Lineage and Destiny were amazing episodes!

Yeah of course. But so were Deep Down and Spin the Bottle. Nothing was BAD about the beginning of season 5, just didn't have much of a kick until You're Welcome hit (story-arc wise).

Lineage is one of my favourite episodes of season 5 btw.
 

Tabris

Member
I thought the Angel and Spike story was in full kick right off the bat.

Yes, Spin the Bottle and Deep down were great. the 4-5 episodes between were absolutely horrid!
 
Are you talking about when Inara's client was a woman?

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to explain the greatness of Firefly. It's like it's getting ignored as usual once someone calls someone on it. It's easy for people to say its great, but nobody can ever explain it.
 

Mashing

Member
Season 4 is so overrated... I mean the season was completely ruined by Conner and Jasmine... yuck

Season 5, now that's some damn good shit
 
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