Support NeoGAF

[Inuhanyou]

One of the world's biggest icebergs ever recorded is "hours, days, or weeks" away from breaking off an Antarctic ice shelf, scientists announced Wednesday.

"In another sign that the iceberg calving is imminent, the soon-to-be-iceberg part of Larsen C Ice Shelf has tripled in speed to more than 10 meters per day between June 24th and June 27th," said Adrian Luckman of Project MIDAS, a British Antarctic research project that's keeping watch on the ever-growing crack.

"The iceberg remains attached to the ice shelf, but its outer end is moving at the highest speed ever recorded on this ice shelf. We still can’t tell when calving will occur — it could be hours, days or weeks," he added.

Once the iceberg breaks off, it "will fundamentally change the landscape of the Antarctic Peninsula," he said.

Ice shelves are permanent floating sheets of ice that connect to a land mass, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. Since the ice is already floating, the newly created iceberg won't contribute to rising sea levels.

Still, studying ice shelves and icebergs is important because they "hold back the glaciers that 'feed' them," Luckman said. "When they disappear, ice can flow faster from the land to the ocean and contribute more quickly to sea-level rise."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...nent-likely-occur-hours-days-weeks/436217001/

New thread for new news, apparently there was not a thread on it since the last one more than a month ago. Apparently the calving of the ice is happening at a far faster rate than scientists predicted even a few weeks back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD_88kg4cDU

This actually reminds me of the beginning of "The Day After Tomorrow"

Remember : Once that methane trapped under the caps is released, there's no way to put it back in.

 

[DrFurbs]

Jesus that's huge! So what's happens when it drifts South and melts? Will the ocean rise by a few mm?

 

[uncelestial]

The ocean doesn't rise from ice shelves cracking off because that ice is already floating in the water. It's all the ice that's got the ground under it we have to worry about. And there's a whole lot of that, of course, but not this particular bit.

This is sucky because that is ancient ice that was basically "the ground" -- this changes the shape of the content. And it shows how serious our impact is getting. Sigh.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Jesus that's huge! So what's happens when it drifts South and melts? Will the ocean rise by a few mm?

Well since its size is an issue, it affects boating lanes and certain things going to and from when it floats away. But yes, sea level will inevitably rise from this, or it would if it wasn't already in the water.

This is just the latest sign of worse things to come on our current trajectory

 

[firehawk12]

Off topic, but I've seen youtube channels use the speech to text thing somewhat frequently... is that just a thing people do now?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

So The Day After Tomorrow is a documentary at this point?

 

[riotous]

Still, studying ice shelves and icebergs is important because they "hold back the glaciers that 'feed' them," Luckman said. "When they disappear, ice can flow faster from the land to the ocean and contribute more quickly to sea-level rise."

This is the main issue; the ice shelf itself is already displacing water and doesn't directly raise sea levels. But as the ice shelf breaks off, this reduces the barrier between land-ice and the sea.

 

[Machina]

We will deserve everything we get

 

[Sir Doom]

At least OP didn't blame Trump so he can swoop in and stop it

 

[daviyoung]

Took me a while to process that title, thought it meant enough ice for 20 Manhattan cocktails

 

[Fallout-NL]

We will deserve everything we get

I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

 

[Inuhanyou]

^ This. If the Ozone is destroyed, that essentially destroys habitable life in general along with it. That eventually includes vegetation and water as well. What awaits in our current trajectory is nothing more than a barren rock

At least OP didn't blame Trump so he can swoop in and stop it

?

 

[SiegfriedFM]

I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

Isn't that the point of the quote? The Earth will be fine, we won't.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

The aftermath of this is the scariest part of this. I hope scientists study this for years to come.

I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

It's pretty much a quote that get thrown around at this point.

 

[Machina]

I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

What difference does it make, we won't be around to see it. It's just like the polar bear clinging to a small piece of ice, out of sight out of mind, which is a very easy thing to achieve when you're extinct

 

[Maximo]

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

What difference does it make, we won't be around to see it. It's just like the polar bear clinging to a small piece of ice, out of sight out of mind, which is a very easy thing to achieve when you're extinct

At the rate things are going, we might very well end up still being around to see it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Climate change skepticism doesn't come from an actual place of skepticism. Nobody could be that stupid.

Its just profitable to keep humanity on a path to extinction.

The obvious frustrating part is that this is something everyone can see. But its not something shown 24/7 on news networks as important as russia or political squabbles for that very reason as well.

 

[UberTag]

Climate change skepticism doesn't come from an actual place of skepticism. Nobody could be that stupid.

I'll take that bet.

 

[riotous]

Climate change skepticism doesn't come from an actual place of skepticism. Nobody could be that stupid.

That's just not true; maybe for most people in power you are correct..

But the average dipshit who doesn't remotely profit from fossil fuels is just being an idiot, duped into being a skeptic.

 

[Transhuman]

How much ice is there in Manhattan?

 

[El-Pistolero]

Hahahaha!

That...is sad...

 

[ponpo]

This actually reminds me of the beginning of "The Day After Tomorrow"

"what global warming?"

 

[PingPongvonLaserstein]

With any luck it'll fall off the edge of the Earth.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

We will deserve everything we get

Ha ha, I was watching this routine earlier this evening.

I love the sketch, but I'm still an environmentalist, sorry George.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's just not true; maybe for most people in power you are correct..

But the average dipshit who doesn't remotely profit from fossil fuels is just being an idiot, duped into being a skeptic.

i don't call civilians stupid, i call them gullible. Because its up to the people on the loudspeaker to educate the public. Its the fault of most media outlets for not showing and contextualizing what needs to be shown and contextualized.

During DAPL there was virtually no coverage on any mainstream media channels, and for Climate change its the same.

The only time there is climate change shown on TV is when Fox says its snowing somewhere so that means climate change is a hoax.

 

[More_Badass]

Climate change skepticism doesn't come from an actual place of skepticism. Nobody could be that stupid.

It does and they really are. Facts and data don't matter to people who believe it's not real or that humans can't affect the climate and environment. There may be some gullibility, but it's easy to be gullible when you wont accept facts. You could have scientists on every mainstream news channel every day and skeptics still wont believe it

 

[Amalthea]

It does and they really are. Facts and data don't matter to people who believe it's not real or that humans can't affect the climate and environment. There may be some gullibility, but it's easy to be gullible when you wont accept facts. You could have scientists on every mainstream news channel every day and skeptics still wont believe it

I think he might be talking about people who willfully spread the missinformation knowing they can make more money without climate protection, not the ones who are meant to be recieving and believing it.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Isn't that the point of the quote? The Earth will be fine, we won't.

What difference does it make

It's a massive, massive difference.

I like Carlin for many things, but this fucking quote reeks of that 'humans can't have an impact on something so big as the planet' shit. Which is dangerous, because we can and we have, in ways that are catastrophic.

Acting as if the planet with a balanced eco system is the same as a planet without one is just fucking stupid.

we won't be around to see it.

Except we already are.

 

[Aske]

We will deserve everything we get

I don't have any time for the cynical humanity-as-hivemind point of view that believes all people are similarly culpable for destroying the environment.

Humanity is comprised of complex and beautiful cultures defined by shared sets of tastes and values; each of which is crystallised by communities made up of unique individuals. Very few of us have any control over the destruction wrought by corporate lobbyists, religious con-men, and mercenary politicians; and those that shield the responsible parties from dismissal via the democratic process have all been manipulated into subservience. Powerful people who blind legions of voters using superstition, fear, and ignorance for their own self-serving ends are the only reason climate change is still being debated in parts of the West.

Humanity is generally magnificent. People are generally empathetic and conscientious. Anyone who believes the opposite should probably go listen to Linkin Park while the rest of us try to help each other make the world better.

 

[Xe4]

Jesus that's huge! So what's happens when it drifts South and melts? Will the ocean rise by a few mm?

Not really. It's already displacing water. However, sea levels are rising by 3mm/yr, and about half of that is from ice loss.

All in all, Greenland and Antarctica loose a little more than 400 billion tons of land ice every year, or 400 cubic kilometers of ice yearly (10% of this the volume of the Larsen C by my very rough estimates), nearly all of it in their respective summers, and that's with what they grow back every year. Sea ice loss is quite more significant, but I couldn't really put a number on it, and most of it is gained back every winter, to loose even more the next winter.

Sea ice is a great way to visualize climate change taking place, but it has no effect on sea level rise whatsoever.

 

[riotous]

i don't call civilians stupid, i call them gullible..

That's just an odd statement; who is a non-civilian then? What a weird word to use.

The information is out there; there is plenty of media to educate yourself with.. including PBS, NPR.. public broadcasting that is available to every single american or the cost of a device used to receive it. These gullible people are too stupid to see past brain dead media being fed to them.

Either way.. a gullible person can't be a skeptic? If you doubt a fact, you are a skeptic. All these rubes aren't making a dime off of being anti-climate change. They are just.. stupid enough to be skeptics. Which is your own words BTW.

 

[Zoator]

It's worth noting that ice shelf calving is a normal process, and the team researching this said that there's no evidence linking this event to climate change. Still, the consequences of the break will likely be magnified as the Antarctic continues to warm.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's just an odd statement; who is a non-civilian then? What a weird word to use.

The information is out there; there is plenty of media to educate yourself with.. including PBS, NPR.. public broadcasting that is available to every single american or the cost of a device used to receive it. These gullible people are too stupid to see past brain dead media being fed to them.

Either way.. a gullible person can't be a skeptic? If you doubt a fact, you are a skeptic. All these rubes aren't making a dime off of being anti-climate change. They are just.. stupid enough to be skeptics. Which is your own words BTW.

Most people in America can't point to specific countries on a map. That doesn't make them stupid, it makes them ignorant for various reasons.

When an extremely large amount of people depend on specific types of content to get their information(aka the main "news" broadcast stations and newspapers), if those specific types of content only funnel a specific narrative, is it any wonder why this shit continues to happen with no riots or mass hysteria?

I just hesitate to label anyone stupid when it can so easy for anyone to miss this stuff if your not into actually learning about what's going on in the world, because of how easy our society makes it to ignore.

It's worth noting that ice shelf calving is a normal process, and the team researching this said that there's no evidence linking this event to climate change. Still, the consequences of the break will likely be magnified as the Antarctic continues to warm.

That's a bridge too far for me.

This is the biggest recorded ice calving in human history and has done so at a rate beyond any previous calving before it. it absolutely is a reflection of the general situation of the caps, which IS affected by global warming.

 

[Xe4]

That's a bridge too far for me.

This is the biggest recorded ice calving in human history and has done so at a rate beyond any previous calving before it. it absolutely is a reflection of the general situation of the caps, which IS affected by global warming.

It shouldn't be. Climate change isn't measured by single events like this. It's a statistical process measured by statistical methods. Climate change isn't, nor ever will be measured by individual ice sheet calving, or individual temperature anomalies, or stronger individual weather phenomena. The absolute best a research scientist would be able to do is say that this happened x% because of climate change and we are certain of that y%. Even that is very difficult to model because climate change is a global long term process and individual weather and geological patterns like this are very difficult to tie to climate change because they are local and short term.

It's like blaming cold weather and snow in the Northeast on global cooling or some shit (ironic, considering the the northeast US will see increased precipitation due to climate change). It's silly to make an argument for climate change in either direction based on individual events. The best that can be done is to use stuff like ice sheet calving as an illustration of what will become more common due to climate change, and not something that definitely happened because of climate change.

 

[Machina]

I don't have any time for the cynical humanity-as-hivemind point of view that believes all people are similarly culpable for destroying the environment.

We aren't similarly culpable for the act of destroying it, but we are certainly culpable in tolerating the stupidity of the people that are.

 

[Inuhanyou]

We can clearly say based on scientific evidence that temperatures have gone up 5 degrees within the last half century alone in the artic, and every year recently is the hottest recorded on record. That is a general trend that can't be explained away by 'weather patterns are always unpredictable' excuse some like to peddle

 

[Zoator]

That's a bridge too far for me.

This is the biggest recorded ice calving in human history and has done so at a rate beyond any previous calving before it. it absolutely is a reflection of the general situation of the caps, which IS affected by global warming.

To be fair, the recorded history of ice shelf calving isn't particularly long. Of course the caps are affected by global warming, but at the same time I think it's somewhat irresponsible to assert causality for a specific event when the scientists (whom I trust) say there is no evidence for it. There are plenty of things that are provably linked to climate change without doubt, so I don't think we need to make relatively baseless assertions that could give climate skeptics something to point to and say "see, you guys are wrong, the scientists agree with me."

 

[Xe4]

We can clearly say based on scientific evidence that temperatures have gone up 5 degrees within the last half century alone in the artic, and every year recently is the hottest recorded on record. That is a general trend that can't be explained away by 'weather patterns are always unpredictable' excuse some like to peddle

Well, first of all, arctic =! antarctic. The arctic is the fastest warming area on the planet, which is also why the sea and land ice loss there is by far the greatest.

Antarctica has been notoriously difficult to measure the temperature and ice loss of. Some studies have found that Antarctica has warmed somewhat recently and others cooled somewhat depending on the measurement method and decade looked at, though the trend seems to be definitely upward. Some land ice measurements seem to indicate that there seems to be a land ice mass gain, and some a loss. The West antarctic ice sheet (where Larsen C is) seems to be warming the most, while higher elevations seem to be cooling. Of course, whatever trends there are, gain or loss, seem to be headed towards more ice loss in the future, indicating a warming antarctic, or at least a delta T inversion.

That's why I'm saying it's important to take into account the whole picture rather than individual events. While the Larsen C seems to depict an Antarctic that is absolutely loosing ice, the weather situation in Antarctica is more complicated than that. It may even be currently gaining land ice. If you look at the even bigger picture, any land ice gain in the Antarctic is offset (and more) by ice loss in the arctic.

It's a complicated subject, and there needs to be a bunch more research done on antarctic weather conditions and their effect on the local warming of the area. To say that Larsen C is calving therefore AGW is real is to do the subject of climatology and meteorology a great disservice, I think. Of course, none of this changes the fact that the globe as a whole is warming, land ice as a whole is melting, and the oceans as a whole are rising. That's been known for a while now.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...sula_and_associated_impacts_on_the_cryosphere
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...ns-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
https://skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm (a blog, but a good one, explaining the complications of the subject.) Links to outside sources.

 

[akira28]

its so freakin hot. bring on the new ice age.

 

[Souldriver]

What difference does it make, we won't be around to see it. It's just like the polar bear clinging to a small piece of ice, out of sight out of mind, which is a very easy thing to achieve when you're extinct

What difference does it make?

Now that you mention the polar bear, I'd like him to survive. Not everything revolves around ourselves...

 

[Shadow Broker]

I did not know the Antarctic had large deposits of Methane trapped under it.

A few weeks ago I learned that there's a Super Valcano in Yellow stone and it's been showing signs of coming back to life since 2006. If that thing erupts NA is gone and it'll trigger other Volcanoes to erupt under the oceans which will create very big Tsunamis.

Sigh... Nasa isn't going to get a budget increase so no spreading humanity accross the stars. If this Valcano doesn't wipe out humanity Trump will along with every other idiot who thinks global warming is a sham will. Atleast they'll die rich or be the first on some Ark while saps like us dies.

 

[Machina]

What difference does it make?

Now that you mention the polar bear, I'd like him to survive. Not everything revolves around ourselves...

So would I, but you might wanna prep yourself for disappointment. Do you wanna sharpen the guillotine or should I?

 

[Aske]

We aren't similarly culpable for the act of destroying it, but we are certainly culpable in tolerating the stupidity of the people that are.

I disagree, but regardless, "we deserve it" comes off as an unhelpfully punitive sentiment that paints billions of wonderful people around the world with a tainted brush that should be reserved for a small handful of individuals: those who deliberately and knowingly chose to sacrifice the future of our species in order to obtain wealth and power for themselves.

 

[Machina]

I disagree, but regardless, "we deserve it" comes off as an unhelpfully punitive sentiment that paints billions of wonderful people around the world with a tainted brush that should be reserved for a small handful of individuals: those who deliberately and knowingly chose to sacrifice the future of our species in order to obtain wealth and power for themselves.

Who put those self serving assholes in positions of power in the first place? They don't ever find themselves in a place of power were it not for rampant indifference

 

[YourMaster]

I hate this quote and quotes like this with a passion.

If you view the planet as a floating ball of rock, then sure, it's not going anywhere. The delicate eco system that most sane individuals view as essentially the same thing? You can bet your ass that's going somewhere, and it ain't good.

That simply means you don't really grasp the situation. There's no such thing as a delicate eco-system. Nature isn't weak, it doesn't need your protection.

Nature will always self-balance, and that can go with massive shocks and extinctions, but there's no risk to 'nature' or 'life' itself. Now the thing is, the current system is not very well adapted to human society, and it is slowly self-correcting. That could speed up though.

There are niches to be exploited a lot more for diseases and parasites living of humans, livestock and crops. New ecosystems we've created just for ourselves that could be invaded by animals ready to compete with us on our own terms.
Remember when plants invented 'wood' and there weren't any life-forms around yet that could break it down and it caused two mass-extinctions? What would happen if eventually some genes come about that help micro-organisms break down plastic?

No matter how you look at it, a 'collapsing' ecosystem will hurt us, if not as a species than at least millions of human individuals. The same thing can be said for climate change. Change isn't necessarily bad, but people will die from the changes.

 

[Fallout-NL]

That simply means you don't really grasp the situation. There's no such thing as a delicate eco-system. Nature isn't weak, it doesn't need your protection.

Nature will always self-balance, and that can go with massive shocks and extinctions, but there's no risk to 'nature' or 'life' itself. Now the thing is, the current system is not very well adapted to human society, and it is slowly self-correcting. That could speed up though.

There are niches to be exploited a lot more for diseases and parasites living of humans, livestock and crops. New ecosystems we've created just for ourselves that could be invaded by animals ready to compete with us on our own terms.
Remember when plants invented 'wood' and there weren't any life-forms around yet that could break it down and it caused two mass-extinctions? What would happen if eventually some genes come about that help micro-organisms break down plastic?

No matter how you look at it, a 'collapsing' ecosystem will hurt us, if not as a species than at least millions of human individuals. The same thing can be said for climate change. Change isn't necessarily bad, but people will die from the changes.

I sorta see what you're saying, but it's still an evasive and rather sizable load of bullocks. Equating evolutionary changes that took place over millions of years to wrecking all of it within the span of a hundred years through decidedly less natural means because 'all of it is change and change is neither good nor bad' or some bullshit like that is again, stupid and entirely besides the point.

 

[AP90]

.

Spoiler

Better world part

 

[4444244]

With any luck it'll fall off the edge of the Earth.

I like this!

 

[VenomousCoffee]

It's a massive, massive difference.

I like Carlin for many things, but this fucking quote reeks of that 'humans can't have an impact on something so big as the planet' shit. Which is dangerous, because we can and we have, in ways that are catastrophic.

Acting as if the planet with a balanced eco system is the same as a planet without one is just fucking stupid.



Except we already are.

That's not what the quote means.