15,000$ Kickstarter campaign for an Idle Thumbs podcast theatrical script. Funded in two hours.I don't live alone (and thus don't have a lot of silences around the house to fill), I don't multitask particularly well, and I don't commute, so I'm not a good target audience for Podcasts. If prominent podcasters were to take some of their best work and try to hash it out into longer essays, I'd read the hell out of them. Clearly I like the kind of things that people seem to get out of Podcasts, they just don't jive with my routine. I've always liked Chris Remo's written work, FWIW, so I'm sure if I did listen to Podcasts this would be a good choice. I've heard a few episodes of Retronauts and I like those, but I prefer to read Sharkey, Toasty, and Kobun's written work for the same reason.
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Idle thumbs IS BACK (Kickstarter ended) -- Funded in 3 hours
- Thread starter The Dutch Slayer
- Start date
Hahaha, people should post in reply that pic to any of the posts that guy makes about getting a video game, comic book, or movie on this forum.
SirPenguin
Member
Oh god damnit. Like 5 years ago I listed a number games to be sold via Amazon Sellers, and had to issue refunds for 4 of them because of a bizarre life circumstance. Amazon banned my Seller account, which I still think is an extreme overreaction, but as it turns out that includes Amazon Payments, so I can't even fund this thing
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I thought I had put a transitional sentence in there saying "But seriously though." Or something to that effect. As it is now it looks like pure trolling. I'll put an edit in parenthesis, keeping the original intact of course, showing what I meant to say in a self-deprecating way.
Chris Remo
Member
Brawndo,
I think you raise some valid points. I'm not going to do a line by line response here; rather, I'll respond to your overall question of transparency, which I think is the thrust of your post.
The podcast is supposed to be free, and it costs money. There's no contradiction there as far as I'm concerned. It costs us money; that's just a hard fact. We don't want to charge money for the episodes; that's a choice on our part. To reconcile those two things, we need to bring in money somehow.
In the mid- and long-term, we have a number of ideas for how to bring in regular revenue, and we'll be experimenting with those things when the podcast is back up. I realize we aren't sharing all those plans yet, but it's because we don't want to hint at or promise things that we don't know are feasible yet. So for the short term, the Kickstarter gives us a way to get an infusion of capital we can use as a baseline to try the more ambitious things we'll be hopefully rolling out later.
Without the Kickstarter, we wouldn't have the financial security to go out and rent an office. That's something we need; we no longer have an apartment that facilitates serving as Idle Thumbs' permanent home. Now, we could theoretically have asked for just enough money to do only that, but we didn't want to be in a position where we were setting ourselves up to be in debt immediately. The Kickstarter is a one-time deal, so we want to make it count.
What you say about rewards isn't quite right. Yes, the cost of each reward is built into the tier price. However, that's only on a per-reward basis assuming a minimum order. We can't simply go and order, say, three vinyl EPs. We've got to order probably a hundred or more. If we were in a situation where we only made $10,000 but were on the hook for minimum runs of records, minimum runs of two different shirt designs, minimum runs of high quality art prints, we would have been completely hosed.
It's not just a matter of making enough money to do the minimum runs, OR making enough money to get an office, OR making enough money to host the cast for a while, it's making enough money to do ALL of those things AND still have enough money left over after taxes (Idle Thumbs is now a California LLC) and Kickstarter fees and Amazon fees to make the whole thing worthwhile to try more stuff going forward.
The obvious response to that is that we could have simply offered fewer rewards with less complicated fulfillment procedures. My answer to that is simply that we thought it would be awesome to do it this way. We want to demonstrate our ability to deliver on a bunch of physical and digital rewards that go beyond what most people have offered in a Kickstarter or even in their podcast/website's permanent store. I think when people see all this stuff they're going to understand why we took the time and effort to do that.
Anyway, I do understand where you're coming from, believe me. We played devil's advocate with ourselves countless times over the last few months. But the way we landed on is the way that balanced risk and reward in a way that allowed us to create some amazingly awesome stuff, and I think our decision has been borne out today.
Chris
I think you raise some valid points. I'm not going to do a line by line response here; rather, I'll respond to your overall question of transparency, which I think is the thrust of your post.
The podcast is supposed to be free, and it costs money. There's no contradiction there as far as I'm concerned. It costs us money; that's just a hard fact. We don't want to charge money for the episodes; that's a choice on our part. To reconcile those two things, we need to bring in money somehow.
In the mid- and long-term, we have a number of ideas for how to bring in regular revenue, and we'll be experimenting with those things when the podcast is back up. I realize we aren't sharing all those plans yet, but it's because we don't want to hint at or promise things that we don't know are feasible yet. So for the short term, the Kickstarter gives us a way to get an infusion of capital we can use as a baseline to try the more ambitious things we'll be hopefully rolling out later.
Without the Kickstarter, we wouldn't have the financial security to go out and rent an office. That's something we need; we no longer have an apartment that facilitates serving as Idle Thumbs' permanent home. Now, we could theoretically have asked for just enough money to do only that, but we didn't want to be in a position where we were setting ourselves up to be in debt immediately. The Kickstarter is a one-time deal, so we want to make it count.
What you say about rewards isn't quite right. Yes, the cost of each reward is built into the tier price. However, that's only on a per-reward basis assuming a minimum order. We can't simply go and order, say, three vinyl EPs. We've got to order probably a hundred or more. If we were in a situation where we only made $10,000 but were on the hook for minimum runs of records, minimum runs of two different shirt designs, minimum runs of high quality art prints, we would have been completely hosed.
It's not just a matter of making enough money to do the minimum runs, OR making enough money to get an office, OR making enough money to host the cast for a while, it's making enough money to do ALL of those things AND still have enough money left over after taxes (Idle Thumbs is now a California LLC) and Kickstarter fees and Amazon fees to make the whole thing worthwhile to try more stuff going forward.
The obvious response to that is that we could have simply offered fewer rewards with less complicated fulfillment procedures. My answer to that is simply that we thought it would be awesome to do it this way. We want to demonstrate our ability to deliver on a bunch of physical and digital rewards that go beyond what most people have offered in a Kickstarter or even in their podcast/website's permanent store. I think when people see all this stuff they're going to understand why we took the time and effort to do that.
Anyway, I do understand where you're coming from, believe me. We played devil's advocate with ourselves countless times over the last few months. But the way we landed on is the way that balanced risk and reward in a way that allowed us to create some amazingly awesome stuff, and I think our decision has been borne out today.
Chris
Fuck Nick?
TaroYamada
Member
I really want that Gravity Bone sequel..... Hopefully they release that separately at some point because I do not have $30 dollars.
Now that Chris responded I feel like this intended reply is moot, but whatever
I think $30,000 for their past and future costs, in addition to what Chris explained above, is not only perfectly reasonable, but drastically undervaluing the insane amount of time they've put into this. Forget about the raw materials cost here for a second, the time alone is worth far more than $30,000.
I'm not donating my money to get something, and I'm not donating my money in hoping that it would go toward something specific. I'm donating my money because I think the Idle Thumbs guys deserve any form of compensation for giving me a ridiculous amount of entertainment over the years, and will continue to do so going forward.
I think $30,000 for their past and future costs, in addition to what Chris explained above, is not only perfectly reasonable, but drastically undervaluing the insane amount of time they've put into this. Forget about the raw materials cost here for a second, the time alone is worth far more than $30,000.
Shit's getting serious.
Starting a business is expensive.
Using a service like Legalzoom to register an LLC costs between $350 to $500+ depending on what package you choose. Registering logos and trademarks with the government also costs about the same amount.
The minute you register a California LLC you also immediately then owe $800 to the state. That's an annual tax.
When you file your personal income taxes each year as a member of an LLC the corporation's taxes have to be filed first. You have to account for your assets, if you want to depreciate them, include your expenses, your revenue, losses, etc. In other words, if you're actively doing business then you need to pay for an accountant to properly file your taxes.
Then there's office space. In San Francisco that can't be cheap. Besides the cost of the lease (2 months rent as deposit plus first month's rent up front is fairly standard) there's also paying the utilities and insurance. Then there's liability insurance that some venues require you to have before you can work in them. Like covering E3 at the LA Convention Center could possibly require such a thing.
Then there's recording equipment, a website, bandwidth, hosting, marketing and advertising, etc etc.
Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of what they collect. There will inevitably be some people who pledge but back out at the last second. And the state and federal governments will be getting their cuts.
At this point a very large chunk of that $60K+ is gone and nobody has actually gotten paid anything yet. If one or more of the Thumbs is going to make this their full time job then that adds a whole new level of cost.
Starting a business adds up fast. It really does.
Good luck to the Thumbs and welcome back. I gladly donated and look forward to the Return of the Kast.
Using a service like Legalzoom to register an LLC costs between $350 to $500+ depending on what package you choose. Registering logos and trademarks with the government also costs about the same amount.
The minute you register a California LLC you also immediately then owe $800 to the state. That's an annual tax.
When you file your personal income taxes each year as a member of an LLC the corporation's taxes have to be filed first. You have to account for your assets, if you want to depreciate them, include your expenses, your revenue, losses, etc. In other words, if you're actively doing business then you need to pay for an accountant to properly file your taxes.
Then there's office space. In San Francisco that can't be cheap. Besides the cost of the lease (2 months rent as deposit plus first month's rent up front is fairly standard) there's also paying the utilities and insurance. Then there's liability insurance that some venues require you to have before you can work in them. Like covering E3 at the LA Convention Center could possibly require such a thing.
Then there's recording equipment, a website, bandwidth, hosting, marketing and advertising, etc etc.
Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of what they collect. There will inevitably be some people who pledge but back out at the last second. And the state and federal governments will be getting their cuts.
At this point a very large chunk of that $60K+ is gone and nobody has actually gotten paid anything yet. If one or more of the Thumbs is going to make this their full time job then that adds a whole new level of cost.
Starting a business adds up fast. It really does.
Good luck to the Thumbs and welcome back. I gladly donated and look forward to the Return of the Kast.
bistromathics
facing a bright new dawn
For $5k, I should be able to fire Sean Vanaman
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I'm most interested in the bolded sections, I look forward to seeing what you have planned on the horizon. Now while I might have preferred that to be the emphasis of the Kickstarter, you explained why you framed it the way you did. You can't give away your whole strategy, but you want to get people excited as well. That's a call that your team has to make, how much information to divulge, the risks/benefits of doing so, etc. As much as I, or anyone else, may want to critique that, you're in the best position (well, only position) to truly know the variables in play and how to move forward.
I hate to sound like a prick who keeps harping on this point, but this wouldn't have been an issue if your project was underfunded. If I recall correctly, you only get the KickStarter money if you meet the goal you set. I assume you did some calculations on the cost of minimum runs for the rewards, and then added at least that to your overall total. So if you didn't reach it, you wouldn't have to send anyone any rewards, so you wouldn't be on the hook for the cost as I doubt you had the materials printed in advance.
Of course I don't know how much you added to the goal in relation to the cost, the specifics of donor levels to rewards, or any of that. That's embedded in the risk/reward decisions your team made, so my issues may be irrelevant to the situation on the ground.
EDIT:
My bad, I misread that as made 10,000 in donations, not asked for. The question of reward level cost and its relation to the overall draw I've discussed elsewhere, but I don't think anyone doubts that your rewards are pretty dope compared to the standard stuff usually offered. For a podcast the total was high, but given the business aspirations you've explained in more detail, I think 30k is actually low (a fact corrected by your generous listeners).
I've never been more happy to spend $200. I only wish I didn't have to work today and could have gotten in on the ground floor.
I would donate an additional $200 if they could arrange for a live person dressed as Pyramid Head to bust through the office whenever Fuck Nick comes around.
I would donate an additional $200 if they could arrange for a live person dressed as Pyramid Head to bust through the office whenever Fuck Nick comes around.
Chris Remo
Member
When I said "if we only made $10,000" I meant if we had only asked for that much, because I understood your initial criticism to be that we were asking for such a high sum. My point is that asking for this much is a big part of what allowed us to promise such a wide variety of relatively involved rewards.
We used some pretty shitty words early on and by and large regret it. It wasn't so much "we should censor ourselves on the podcast," as "whoa, we just shouldn't use those words in general." Gaming culture throws around a lot of words which mean some pretty heinous things to people, and there's no reason to use them even "for flavor" when there are equally intense and hilarious appropriate substitutes to be found.
classicdms
Neo Member
I've dropped words from my vocabulary through the years as well, so I can understand that. But sometimes you need the punch of a solid "cunt" to get your point across. Or to make a hilariously inappropriate joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IampU2ru8Ao
"I didn't know it was a bunch of 'Mary's' over here"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IampU2ru8Ao
"I didn't know it was a bunch of 'Mary's' over here"
SirPenguin
Member
The only tasteless word that bothered me was the rather liberal use of "retard" or "retarded", which is practically this generation's "gay". I'm glad they stopped using it, or at least caught themselves when they did.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Gay is this generation's gay. Retard is this generation's spastic, or something.
SirPenguin
Member
Good call
If you look at some of the most popular podcasts (Rogan, Carolla) and radio shows (O&A), they censor nothing. No words, no subjects. However, they are also not just saying rape, rape rape rape all the time either.
So it's understandable some words are not said as much. However like one of the other posters said. Sometimes you need a good dose of cunt, and fuck is a staple in the English language at this point.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The word "gay" shouldn't have any inherently negative connotations so of course it's offensive when people turn it that way. But there's no nice word for having subnormal intelligence. In fact, the word "retarded" was contrived to be as least offensive as possible, to replace psychological terms like idiot, imbecile and moron.
outunderthestars
Banned
I would not use any of those four people as representations of how people should strive to carry themselves. They are all intentionally vitriolic manchildren trying to shock those around them.
graywolf323
Member
I pledged $10
JasonUresti
Member
I'm eagerly looking forward to the book club cast. Hopefully they aim for a diverse reading list, open to all styles of writing and genres.
I enjoy the mainstream literary scene, past and present, a great deal, but many in that world can be extremely snobbish and condescending to anything with the hint of the fantastic about it, and end up being just as narrow and close minded in their reading choices as the most devout consumer of licensed Star Wars fiction.
I enjoy the mainstream literary scene, past and present, a great deal, but many in that world can be extremely snobbish and condescending to anything with the hint of the fantastic about it, and end up being just as narrow and close minded in their reading choices as the most devout consumer of licensed Star Wars fiction.
outunderthestars
Banned
Agreed. There is some great genre fiction out there these days.
They aren't really. Just what people see of them when they don't listen. Some of the best, most in-depth interviews I have ever heard in my life have been done on the O and A show. Hell, all the best comics on earth are good friends with the guys. The top musicians, actors all love them. It's not just shock. It's being open, and talking about anything. In a world where you get fired for one slip up on twitter, where double standards reign supreme.
Censorship is killing normal radio/TV. Which is why everyone is running to online content and satellite. Why all the good shows are now on FX/HBO type channels. Normal radio is virtually bankrupt, and almost 90 percent of the hosts have been fired since the 80's. Now everything is top 30, and pre-reocrded bits you can buy from a company online, that are played across the country instead of actual content. Many talented, funny people are moving into SiriusXM/Podcast territory and doing a fantastic job.
My point is, Idlethumbs should be NATURAL. Don't change the way you act and talk to appeal to a fickle subset of sensitive people. Be yourselves. You don't need to be anything different, or do anything "shocking". Unless that is who you are to begin with.
JasonUresti
Member
Don't worry, at least three quarters of the picks will be about Far Cry 2.
"make the bird noise" will also cross off around 15% of them.
Is there any idea what type of books will be selected for the book club podcast?
edit:
christ almost $70,000 now
Rabbit Lord
Member
Just got home from work and saw this...good times.
Video Games.
I made a little pledge even though they reached their goal.
Video Games.
I made a little pledge even though they reached their goal.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
How long is the progress cast? Can't donate/download until I get home. Just want to know how much idle thumbs to look forward to while I finish up wok.
19 minutes
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Well, that's better than nothing!
I don't live alone (and thus don't have a lot of silences around the house to fill), I don't multitask particularly well, and I don't commute, so I'm not a good target audience for Podcasts. If prominent podcasters were to take some of their best work and try to hash it out into longer essays, I'd read the hell out of them. Clearly I like the kind of things that people seem to get out of Podcasts, they just don't jive with my routine. I've always liked Chris Remo's written work, FWIW, so I'm sure if I did listen to Podcasts this would be a good choice. I've heard a few episodes of Retronauts and I like those, but I prefer to read Sharkey, Toasty, and Kobun's written work for the same reason.
Stuff that. Transcript of every episode!
It's infinitely better than nothing. In fact, greater than infinitely, given that nothing multiplied by infinity is still nothing.
But if that shit was infinity than I wouldn't have fuckin' finished it already now would I?
You've made my expectations infinitively larger, and you must now entertain me until the next podate gets released.
podate is a word I made that means podcast update.
outunderthestars
Banned
If the total gets high enough can we get a video podcast?
MiniBossBattle
Member
In the time it took me to put together the same IKEA furniture that Famous had in the background and make a sweet cardboard fort from the packaging, Idle Thumbs made 30k. Congrats to Thumbs and I plan to donate when I get to work.
-Sent from SweetCardboardFort
-Sent from SweetCardboardFort
StevePharma
Member
How much was that Sam Jackson Arm prop?
NullPointer
Member
As a San Franciscan myself I'd be more than honored to buy you guys beers anytime. Your podcasts have cracked me up more times than I can count.
I wish you guys the best of luck.
I wish you guys the best of luck.
After a shitty day at work, the negative posts mostly at the beginning of the thread made me want to go on a rant about how the Ricky Gervais podcast has probably made ten shitloads of money by charging for each episode because they didn't want to pay for hosting costs and realised they could make money off it, but when Idle Thumbs asks for $30k to subsidise the start up costs of two free podcasts amongst other cool things it's an issue even though they've been paying for hosting out of their own pocket over the years while providing free entertainment, on top of giving us kickass rewards for donating. Then I realised that sentence would be too long and I would be too tired to proof read it, probably putting commas and shit in places where they don't belong and missing the places where they do. I mean, I realised that would be a straw man argument, but it might have put things into perspective?
Anyway, I hope Chris is attempting to turn the Idle Thumbs brand into a full time thing, including editorials and long form journalism, because I'm sure if anyone can succeed, it's Boost!
I don't know what the fuck I am saying anymore. Thanks to the negative posts I'm increasing my donation to $200.
Anyway, I hope Chris is attempting to turn the Idle Thumbs brand into a full time thing, including editorials and long form journalism, because I'm sure if anyone can succeed, it's Boost!
I don't know what the fuck I am saying anymore. Thanks to the negative posts I'm increasing my donation to $200.
Chucked in $60 ($10 for international shipping). I feel as if it is in part, like others have said, is payment for all the old podcasts and the entertainment they provided me.
What is everyone favorite Idle Thumbs songs? I think mine has to be A Letter To Edge, so brilliant.
You can find all the songs here here.
What is everyone favorite Idle Thumbs songs? I think mine has to be A Letter To Edge, so brilliant.
You can find all the songs here here.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Ok just got home and did the thing, now where to download the progresscast from?
nvm i see it. hurray! Videogames!
double edit:
Is there going to be an RSS for these? I assume there will probably be a couple and don't want to have to keep checking back.
nvm i see it. hurray! Videogames!
double edit:
Is there going to be an RSS for these? I assume there will probably be a couple and don't want to have to keep checking back.
JasonUresti
Member
The Fanboy's Lament, easily. The lyrics and music are both strong.
With all this extra money, Chris can now open his Steam competitor, Boost Remo's Digital Cheese Plate.
A digital download service focusing exclusively on indie bundles, or cheese plates of games, if you will.