herzogzwei1989 said:Hopefully Cafe is going to out-perform the Xbox360 (and PS3) in overall, with a more efficient architecture when everything is put together. I'd love to see another console as well-engineered as GameCube was. That little thing was so well put together and it actually came close to Xbox in practice even though it had way lower paper specs.
herzogzwei1989 said:BTW I think this pic is real:
http://igadgetview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/201104240106.jpg[/ig]
Even if the other pics of Cafe prove to be fakes.[/QUOTE]
I would not be shocked if it turned out to be a real leak that got lost in all the hype and people calling fake
I do not mind the design at all but who knows
herzogzwei1989 said:Hopefully Cafe is going to out-perform the Xbox360 (and PS3) in overall, with a more efficient architecture when everything is put together. I'd love to see another console as well-engineered as GameCube was. That little thing was so well put together and it actually came close to Xbox in practice even though it had way lower paper specs.
ThoseDeafMutes said:
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?Willy105 said:This is heavy.
herzogzwei1989 said:BTW I think this pic is real:
http://igadgetview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/201104240106.jpg
Even if the other pics of Cafe prove to be fakes.
That's correct. Except maybe for the raw fillrate, where a voodoo2 SLI setup would be faster, but that's before taking into account the TBDR nature of the PVR2DC. In every other aspect the DC graphics setup creamed the sst2, and the SLI configuration improved only the fillrate of the sst2 (maybe the trisetup rate too, I don't remember). Also, the SH4 had specialised FPU ops for doing matrix transformations, whereas the PII had just the integer MMX op set. The only FP vector tech in the PC domain at the time was K6's 3dNow which had just emerged (in 1998) and practically nothing was using it yet.herzogzwei1989 said:Dreamcast's PowerVR2DC graphics chip was more powerful in practice than Voodoo 2 SLI.
herzogzwei1989 said:BTW I think this pic is real:
http://igadgetview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/201104240106.jpg
Even if the other pics of Cafe prove to be fakes.[/QUOTE]
I hope it is, I kind of like the design.
I wouldn't mind the design if it had a more functional disc tray (in place of the camel toe), not as cheap-looking plastic and if it got rid of the etched Nintendo logo.ombz said:I hope it is, I kind of like the design.
To be fair, we haven't seen the other side. Not that it matters anyway, though.AceBandage said:And that design doesn't have enough airflow to accommodate a modern CPU and GPU.
Jocchan said:To be fair, we haven't seen the other side. Not that it matters anyway, though.
My bad, I thought they were all framed from pretty much the same angle. Still doesn't matter, they're not real.From The Dust said:there are fakes of the back though.
Soda said:I'm not a fan of the design, it looks too bland to me. I would love to see one of the NES mockups
(dat size)
my favorite console design but I hate the controller
Edit:
Also I recall hearing (officially?) that it will be about the size of the xbox 360. That most popular 'leak' is more the size of the Wii.
F#A#Oo said:Anyone else think all this is all FUD by Nintendo?
All these "leaked" images and stuff just sets off alarm bells of Nintendo trying to get people to think one way and than come E3...BAM...
It's like the Nintendo ON all over again...
AceBandage said:I dunno, the OG NES was kind of ugly.
From The Dust said:there are fakes of the back though.
This is the reason why I don't think Project Cafe is a full step to a new console generation, or somewhere near that.herzogzwei1989 said:Dreamcast was more powerful than any PC in 1998.
PS2 was more powerful than any PC in early 2000
Xbox was more powerful than most PCs and on par with the highest-end in 2001.
Is kinda unfair to compare earlier gens/PC counterparts vs current gen/modern PCs. Right now, modern PCs GPU have virtually unlimited power budget. Before they were limited to the power draw of AGP and worse, PCI.MadScientist said:This is the reason why I don't think Project Cafe is a full step to a new console generation, or somewhere near that.
GPUs are limited to 300W power draw to stay within ATX specifications. Console GPUs draw less power as well due to being integrated in the mainboard instead of having a separate PCB, not needing their own power connector, sharing RAM with the rest of the system instead of having their own supply, removing uneccesary features like video decoding etc.Lonely1 said:Is kinda unfair to compare earlier gens/PC counterparts vs current gen/modern PCs. Right now, modern PCs GPU have virtually unlimited power budget. Before they were limited to the power draw of AGP and worse, PCI.
You know why I meant by virtually in cursive... That limit doens't apply to multi GPU's solutions.Mr_Brit said:GPUs are limited to 300W power draw to stay within ATX specifications.
Mr_Brit said:Console GPUs draw less power as well due to being integrated in the mainboard instead of having a separate PCB, not needing their own power connector, sharing RAM with the rest of the system instead of having their own supply, removing uneccesary features like video decoding etc.
Those charts are a bit misleading as you can't measure the power draw of a GPU separately and a power supply's efficiency varies quite a lot depending on load.Lonely1 said:You know why I meant by virtually in cursive... That limit doens't apply to multi GPU's solutions.
Back in the day PC GPUs were svelte and offered very few extra features such as video decoding, tesselation, power saving states etc which all require extra transistors and components. Console manufacturers can save quite a bit of die space, transistors and heat output by removing these unecessary features which wouldn't have been possible in the past as these things didn't exist.Lonely1 said:You know why I meant by virtually in cursive... That limit doens't apply to multi GPU's solutions.
And what does that affects the original argument of comparing GPUs vs Consoles across generations, since that has always been true?
So, you dispute the well know fact that a 580 consumes way more power than a 7900?Mr_Brit said:Those charts are a bit misleading as you can't measure the power draw of a GPU separately and a power supply's efficiency varies quite a lot depending on load.
That's exactly what I said, you got my point exactly as I meant it to come across.Lonely1 said:So, you dispute the well know fact that a 580 consumes way more power than a 7900?
If that isn't what you said, then your reply was unnecessary... And I don't believe Sony/MS will cut (much) on video decoding and tessellation capabilities.Mr_Brit said:That's exactly what I said, you got my point exactly as I meant it to come across.
MadScientist said:This is the reason why I don't think Project Cafe is a full step to a new console generation, or somewhere near that.
A console like Project Cafe is probably able to run 360 and PS3 games at a higher resolution and with better performance, but that is pretty much it. That is a significant update for the Wii audience and a few hundered thousand hardcore players, but not enough to convince the mainstream PS3 or 360 audience to buy another console.
If it is not possible for Sony of MS to come up with a console that can run the Samaritian demo, they should better wait until that tech becomes available. Even then I think it might not enough considering how good current gen games like Uncharted, L.A. Noire, etc. look.
Perhaps that is what Nintendo is banking on: That Sony and MS will have to wait until more powerful tech becomes available while they upgrade the Wii audience and slowly convert the hardcore audience.
Also, the touch screen will make many games possible that weren't previously feasible on a console. Games from World of Warcraft to Civilization now can be converted without much sacrifice. I am really excited to see how that plays out and believe the feature is not yet getting the attention it should
It'd be highly unlikely to have a Hard drive and even if it did it'd be even less likely to be user replaceable.ElFly said:I thought Epic said they used SLI on the Samaritan demo just to bruteforce the development of it, and that the target was a single 580. Maybe with a transistor reduction a future Sony/MS console can target that.
The real question now is whether Cafe will include a harddrive, and if it will be upgradeable. I wouldn't count on many PC ports if it wasn't that way.
Mr_Brit said:GPUs are limited to 300W power draw to stay within ATX specifications. Console GPUs draw less power as well due to being integrated in the mainboard instead of having a separate PCB, not needing their own power connector, sharing RAM with the rest of the system instead of having their own supply, removing uneccesary features like video decoding etc.
ElFly said:I thought Epic said they used SLI on the Samaritan demo just to bruteforce the development of it, and that the target was a single 580. Maybe with a transistor reduction a future Sony/MS console can target that.
VGChampion said:Except ON was just a fan I believe. Nintendo is not releasing all these mock ups. Fans are.
dwu8991 said:Except Gamecube games took way too long to develop.
Smiles and Cries said:what puzzles me is that most GAF posters seem to know about fill-rates, memory, bottlenecks all the issues that a console could have with performance
So why is it that we are smarter than the major 3 platform makers?
You'll think these guys would one day come out with the perfect balanced hardware if it was this easy to understand
Why bother? The fans are crazy enough to do it for them.F#A#Oo said:Hmmm...I dunno...was it proven to be fan made? I know there was an interview that went around where he said he had lost alot of the work and what was released was only a portion...
In this day and age I would not be surprised if Nintendo has people creating mock ups...
Sure it was. It was a Spanish guy (forgot his name), known for making this kind of stuff.F#A#Oo said:Hmmm...I dunno...was it proven to be fan made? I know there was an interview that went around where he said he had lost alot of the work and what was released was only a portion...
In this day and age I would not be surprised if Nintendo has people creating mock ups...
Pablo "psyco3ler" Belmonte.v4gr4nt said:Sure it was. It was a Spanish guy (forgot his name), known for making this kind of stuff.
blu said:That's correct. Except maybe for the raw fillrate, where a voodoo2 SLI setup would be faster, but that's before taking into account the TBDR nature of the PVR2DC. In every other aspect the DC graphics setup creamed the sst2, and the SLI configuration improved only the fillrate of the sst2 (maybe the trisetup rate too, I don't remember). Also, the SH4 had specialised FPU ops for doing matrix transformations, whereas the PII had just the integer MMX op set. The only FP vector tech in the PC domain at the time was K6's 3dNow which had just emerged (in 1998) and practically nothing was using it yet.
True. Then throw out half the pixel shaders as you are targeting fixed 1080p, no need to drive 2560x1500 screens, or multiple screens or wasteful AA (implement a custom efficient MLAA). Then dump all the ram except some embedded for the frame buffer, as that'll be shared with the CPU.Mr_Brit said:Those charts are a bit misleading as you can't measure the power draw of a GPU separately and a power supply's efficiency varies quite a lot depending on load.
Back in the day PC GPUs were svelte and offered very few extra features such as video decoding, tesselation, power saving states etc which all require extra transistors and components. Console manufacturers can save quite a bit of die space, transistors and heat output by removing these unecessary features which wouldn't have been possible in the past as these things didn't exist.
herzogzwei1989 said:Here's a rather negative article on Cafe, for you haters out there.
Nintendos Project Cafe: Too Little Too Late?
Even if the system is a success, Nintendo will still have to claw its way out of its own grave to even come up even or regain the trust of the gaming community. I dont think Mario has it in him anymore