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[nincompoop]

Exactly. I look forward to another generation of "nintendo abandoned the hardcore", especially from the dickheads I have to deal with, who write off every game on the Wii because the horsepower isn't cutting edge, and because it's not full of shitty dudebro shooters and cinematic wank.

For IGN, lets keep in mind this nugget of gold:

Were they not right? The 3DS Resident Evil games look pretty comparable to most 360 games to me. You're not one of those people who judges a system's power by its worst looking games, are you?

 

[Sianos]

I don't see the gap being as huge as the Wii - HD Twin gap was. It's been confirmed that Cafe will be able to output 1080p, and while Sony and Microsoft's new consoles will likely be more powerful, I doubt it'll be a huge difference graphically between the three.

 

[ombz]

I don't see the gap being as huge as the Wii - HD Twin gap was. It's been confirmed that Cafe will be able to output 1080p, and while Sony and Microsoft's new consoles will likely be more powerful, I doubt it'll be a huge difference graphically between the three.

source?

 

[GDGF]

Several developers that have experienced 3DS in its current form have reported, off the record, that it has processing capabilities that exceed the Nintendo Wii, and with 3D shaders they can make games that look close to current generation visuals on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3[/b] on the lower resolution screens

That's pretty close to what we got though, judging by the better looking games.

 

[watershed]

Were they not right? The 3DS Resident Evil games look pretty comparable to most 360 games to me. You're not one of those people who judges a system's power by its worst looking games, are you?

Sure revelations definitely looks that way, I'd say mercenaries is much closer to RE 4 on the gamecube, a great looking game but not the same as a quality HD game. I think the point is that most 3ds games don't look like 360 games. Some do, but most look more like wii games, which is very good for a handheld but IGN created the wrong impression or people again overvalued that single statement.

Edit: Also don't want to get dragged into an argument about the 3ds' power. In terms of the latest Eurogamer editorial, its interpretation of the current cafe rumors fits in better with what Nintendo have done and said than the mass interpretation that the cafe will be Nintendo re-entering the arms race.

 

[dwu8991]

Their pre-3DS stuff was outrageous. I think Cafe will end up being somewhere inbetween IGN and Eurogamers expectations.

The 3DS is more powerful than a wii, PSP, xbox or gamecube. It just requires dev time and team. You only have took at the real time trailer for snake eater. 60fs is a problem for 3D or online.

 

[nincompoop]

Sure revelations definitely looks that way, I'd say mercenaries is much closer to RE 4 on the gamecube, a great looking game but not the same as a quality HD game. I think the point is that most 3ds games don't look like 360 games. Some do, but most look more like wii games, which is very good for a handheld but IGN created the wrong impression or people again overvalued that single statement.

Mercenaries looks way better than Revelations to me graphically, they're both using the same near-360 quality shader effects but Mercenaries looks like its polygon counts are at least on par with RE4, while by comparison Revelations' polygon counts look closer to Code Veronica on the Dreamcast.

 

[Instro]

Sure revelations definitely looks that way, I'd say mercenaries is much closer to RE 4 on the gamecube, a great looking game but not the same as a quality HD game. I think the point is that most 3ds games don't look like 360 games. Some do, but most look more like wii games, which is very good for a handheld but IGN created the wrong impression or people again overvalued that single statement.

People read too much into the statement if they thought it would have the raw power of a 360 or PS3. Talking their quote literally, its basically true. The only game that can be used to judge the power of the system atm is RE Revelations, that is currently the gold standard so it clearly has the capability to make games that share similarities with current gen consoles, but its up the the developer to make it happen.

The graphics of 3DS games are only going to improve from this point so I have a hard time finding anything wrong with IGN's statements regarding the 3DS.

 

[EatChildren]

Were they not right? The 3DS Resident Evil games look pretty comparable to most 360 games to me. You're not one of those people who judges a system's power by its worst looking games, are you?

Of course I'm not. I'm probably one of the few champions of the better looking 3DS titles, including the ones that are already released that people are ignoring *cough* Pilotwings *cough*.

But IGN's statement makes the hardware sound far better than it actually is, at least based on what we've seen (unreleased games included) so far. Their statement makes it seem like it is a portable low resolution 360/PS3, when there are many other factors that significantly degrade the IQ of 3DS games from even approaching that level.

It reads like Nintendo was told "It's much easier to run shaders on the 3DS than even the Wii! We can do some pretty nifty shaders, including stuff you see on the 360/PS3", and filtered through the IGN hype machine it comes out as "3DS more powerful than the Wii, shaders make it look like 360/PS3 games". They look great, but they really dont look as good as IGN make it out to be.

I expect similar treatment when it comes to the Cafe. IGN will hype monger for hits and poorly word the information they've been given, and what we'll get is a modest though acceptable system that disappoints those who were expecting so much more.

 

[kraznk1d]

3ds games will never look better than the best wii games.

 

[Daschysta]

Exactly. I look forward to another generation of "nintendo abandoned the hardcore", especially from the dickheads I have to deal with, who write off every game on the Wii because the horsepower isn't cutting edge, and because it's not full of shitty dudebro shooters and cinematic wank.

For IGN, lets keep in mind this nugget of gold:

Resident evil revealations? Street fighter IV?

The 3DS also can pull off shaders and effects beyond the wii, and similar to the ones on the HD systems.

They weren't too far off in their predictions.

They've also been pretty damn specific in their rumours this time too. They aren't making just blanket statements about power their naming specific GPU's.

Also don't act like the proposed rumours are truly anything cutting edge anyhow.

What about 3 or 4 year old tech screams "cutting edge to you"?

They don't have to be cutting edge to be signifcantly more powerful than the current HD duo.

Don't confuse diminishing returns and infeasibility of another sd to HD jump with nintendo going cutting edge.

A system that isn't more powerful than the current HD twins by a decent amount would be just as, if not more archaic than the Wii was chronologically, not a 3DS.

Releasing the console equivalent powerwise as your DS-3DS analogy would be easily stronger than the current consoles.

IGN has more sources than eurogamer and have actually talked specics. It's more reliable than a random editorial that cites no new info.


Referencing specific GPUS and such is a bit different and not succeptible to hyperbole like their 3DS statements.

Also the 3DS is significantly more powerful than the PSP, just like the cafe should be a nice step (though not generational over PS360).

Nintendo is not moronic, they see the wii's sales floundering, and high level executives have continually harped on about the threat of apple and the such, logically because they are cannibalizing the casual market that made the wii such a success. Nintendo realizes now that they need core gamers to remain viable in the long term, and motion control is no longer unique to them.

3ds games will never look better than the best wii games.

Revealations already looks close, games any better looking than that will easily look better than wii games, especially when you take into account the size of the screen. The 3DS also gets free antialiasing from the 3D effect.

 

[watershed]

I expect similar treatment when it comes to the Cafe. IGN will hype monger for hits and poorly word the information they've been given, and what we'll get is a modest though acceptable system that disappoints those who were expecting so much more.

This. Let's leave the 3ds power debates to the 3ds threads but I'm pretty sure people who are expecting a powerhouse will be mistaken when the cafe is actually revealed. Of course it will be HD, and on paper it may be "significantly more powerful" than the 360 and PS3 but I'm pretty sure the games will look on par or on par with better technical execution (frame rate, resolution, textures, etc). Its not an extreme position to think that the cafe won't be a powerhouse and its not an anti-Nintendo sentiment. Its a reasonable expectation given what the rumors indicate, Nintendo's preferred practices, and the state of the industry as a whole.

 

[EatChildren]

Im having a shitty day so I'm venting here and in my negative thread. Just ignore me.

Also, for what it's worth and though we've know it since the announcement, Nintendo are indeed offering full hands-on time with the Cafe. I cant attend E3, but my colleagues recently booked their Nintendo stuff, and that included hands-on previews the day of the conference.

 

[Instro]

I think one thing to note about the 3ds situation versus the Cafe rumors is that with he Cafe we already have rumored specs. Assuming that the rumors about it using the r700 line gpu are true its a bit easier for us to estimate power compared to the 3ds where we were just relying gaming press speculation.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

No matter how Zelda Cafe looks technically I know Nintendo will make it look great artistically.

I expect that too. I was blown away by Twilight Princess' art direction.

 

[dwu8991]

Their pre-3DS stuff was outrageous. I think Cafe will end up being somewhere inbetween IGN and Eurogamers expectations.

IGN did prove that Cafe could run games and ports of x360 at 1080P games at 60fps including Crysis 2.
I don't think they are overstating the power and have been careful not to raise expectations.

 

[Daschysta]

This. Let's leave the 3ds power debates to the 3ds threads but I'm pretty sure people who are expecting a powerhouse will be mistaken when the cafe is actually revealed. Of course it will be HD, and on paper it may be "significantly more powerful" than the 360 and PS3 but I'm pretty sure the games will look on par or on par with better technical execution (frame rate, resolution, textures, etc). Its not an extreme position to think that the cafe won't be a powerhouse and its not an anti-Nintendo sentiment. Its a reasonable expectation given what the rumors indicate, Nintendo's preferred practices, and the state of the industry as a whole.

Define powerhouse.

If on paper it is significantly more powerful than the PS360 it will meet peoples expectations.

Most people don't expect vastly superior looking games, especially multi-plats initially, but those with a discerning eye should be able to tell the superiority of exlusive cafe games as well as more consistant framerates and higher consistant resolutions.

Expecting it to be on par or weaker than PS360 is a more extreme position than expecting a considerable jump in performance.

You honestly think that after basically placating themselves and flat out admitting that the 3rd party situation (due to low processing power) was a huge problem with wii they will turn around and make the exact same mistake by releasing a system incapable of recieving downscaled mulitplats of the next console cycle?

I give nintendo more credit I suppose. It's not like nintendo stuck with old and underpowered hardware for anything more than one generation.

The DS to 3DS leap was a generational one easily. As was every single console cycle sans wii. It's out of character for nintendo to release massively gimped hardware, not the norm. Releasing a console significantly more powerful than PS360 fits into nintendo's long term plans anyway regarding HD penetration.

The wii is a frickin' beast of an SD console, any more power would be a waste at that resolution. The point of releasing the wii with it's processing specs was based on the idea that HD penetration was in it's infancy and not profitable, and largely they were right.

Why expect them to release a massively outdated console, now that they are embracing HD, when graphically they have always been either competitive or on par with the most powerful system, especially since it's abundantly clear that the casual market is fickle, and unloyal? Nintendo has flirted with them, and while it was massively profitable at first, they are no longer buying games or consoles. Nintendo knows that they need gamers to populate the system, and at this point and time they can cheaply build a significantly more powerful system than the ones currently on the market and own the console graphics game for a number of years. It wuold be silly to gimp it.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Smash Bros. sucks (this is as casual a fighting franchise as it gets... shallow, depthless fighting games are no appeal to me)

I'd hate to turn this into a smash debate but calling smash shallow and depthless is just not true.

 

[Oblivion]

Were they not right? The 3DS Resident Evil games look pretty comparable to most 360 games to me. You're not one of those people who judges a system's power by its worst looking games, are you?

That's pretty close to what we got though, judging by the better looking games.

Vids?

 

[evilromero]

I think Nintendo has to address a lot of criticism from developers and bolster broader third party support. Sure, they've always had the Ubisoft stuff right out of the gate but they need continued support, as opposed to a few B-grade titles here and there.

In other words, the only way they're going to get support from Epic, id, Bethesda and others is to have a fairly powerful system that is on par with the next crop of consoles. And honestly, I don't see that happening.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Vids?

Snarky reply.

First link from that snarky reply.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Im having a shitty day so I'm venting here and in my negative thread. Just ignore me.

Also, for what it's worth and though we've know it since the announcement, Nintendo are indeed offering full hands-on time with the Cafe. I cant attend E3, but my colleagues recently booked their Nintendo stuff, and that included hands-on previews the day of the conference.

I wonder if the Cafe will be a near finished playable unit (like 3DS last year) or more like a dev kit under the desk (like the 360 in 2005)

If it turns out to be the former and gets a good reception at E3, why not launch it holiday 2011?

Is it not possible for Nintendo to change their plans announced at the investor meeting?

 

[Daschysta]

I'd hate to turn this into a smash debate but calling smash shallow and depthless is just not true.

Especially melee, but also brawl too. Amir0x is speaking like someone that has never played smash competively.

A shallow and depthless game would not have NEARLY the gulf in performance between experts and novices that a game like smash has.

Even a moderately decent player would lose to a "pro" player in either game, likely not giving more than 50 percent damage to the better player and not takign a single life.

Shallow and Depthless my left foot!

Also Ami is completely wrong about the superguide.

It does nothing but allow nintendo to make games much more difficult while still making them viable for a wider market.

You cant' include difficulty levels easily in platformers and other such games...

I hope nintendo has it in all their future games, devilishly hard puzzles that they otherwise would have not included in zelda and metroid will be viable.... Super difficult games ala DKCR are a reality...

It's a feature you aren't required to ever use once, and it actually allows games to not skimp on the difficulty..

It's actually a pretty ingenius way to appeal to both camps and should not be offensive to "hardcore" (blech) gamers at the least.

Ami if you claim to have so much reverance and respect for the talent of nintendos developers you should welcome any innovation that allows them to be true to their intentions without gimping a games difficulty in the name of minstream sales considerations.

I think Nintendo has to address a lot of criticism from developers and bolster broader third party support. Sure, they've always had the Ubisoft stuff right out of the gate but they need continued support, as opposed to a few B-grade titles here and there.

In other words, the only way they're going to get support from Epic, id, Bethesda and others is to have a fairly powerful system that is on par with the next crop of consoles. And honestly, I don't see that happening.

Nope.

They need a console that just isn't SOO far behind as to not be able to to run downscaled multiplats. Gaming publishers are businessess too. The big multiplats will get ported to anything that can somewhat run the software without an entirely new ground up game being made. The wii would have gotten every single big 3rd party game that wasn't moneyhotted or exclusive if it were just significantly weaker than PS360 as opposed to an entire generation behind.

 

[watershed]

Why expect them to release a massively outdated console, now that they are embracing HD, when graphically they have always been either competitive or on par with the most powerful system, especially since it's abundantly clear that the casual market is fickle, and unloyal? Nintendo has flirted with them, and while it was massively profitable at first, they are no longer buying games or consoles. Nintendo knows that they need gamers to populate the system, and at this point and time they can cheaply build a significantly more powerful system than the ones currently on the market and own the console graphics game for a number of years. It wuold be silly to gimp it.

Firstly, I'm not ignoring the rest of your post I just hate quoting long text, it looks messy.
Second, I don't think it will be "gimped", I think the reasonable expectation is that it uses tech from 2008 or so. So I'm sure it will be more powerful than the 360 or PS3 but I don't think it will look that way except to the "discerning eye" again largely improvements made to technical execution versus seeing something like not-faked hd demos and thinking "this is clearly a generation beyond the ps2" for instance.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I've been saying this forever now, I firmly believe the cafe will be to the wii what the 3ds is to the ds. Significantly more powerful, with more modernized system features but still lagging behind in both power and system features when compared to their competitors.

IGN has always over sold graphical power talk in order to generate hits and get fans drooling.
Did the exact same thing with the 3ds.

And the exact opposite with the Wii.

"Always" is kind of a lie here.

 

[Sianos]

If Cafe is reasonably close to the next Sony and Microsoft powerhouses, I don't see why they wouldn't port their games. It's not like now, where two consoles are in HD and one is still SD. Microsoft and Sony's new consoles will not somehow output 2000p graphics (hint: because there are no 2000p TVs).

Yes, the new Sony and Microsoft powerhouses will be more powerful than Cafe. No, they won't be miles ahead like now.

 

[dwu8991]

I'd hate to turn this into a smash debate but calling smash shallow and depthless is just not true.

It's a shallow game as mario party. Both are fun for casual and multiplayer experience, no one would argue with that.

 

[Daschysta]

Firstly, I'm not ignoring the rest of your post I just hate quoting long text, it looks messy.
Second, I don't think it will be "gimped", I think the reasonable expectation is that it uses tech from 2008 or so. So I'm sure it will be more powerful than the 360 or PS3 but I don't think it will look that way except to the "discerning eye" again largely improvements made to technical execution versus seeing something like not-faked hd demos and thinking "this is clearly a generation beyond the ps2" for instance.

I agree with you then. I'm just contending that something can be signifcantly more powerful than something like PS360 and not have a "generational leap" simply due to diminishing returns on horsepower at this point. I think that yeah the 3rd party multiplats will look very similar to the other two in screengrabs and such, with the difference being things like Framerate, and perhaps resolution in some games that aren't 1080P on the other two. Exclusives though should look significantly better though, it's just that signifcantly better is harder to notice at the current level of graphical fidelity.

I expect similar results (though more noticeable) from PS4 and 720. Nintendo releasing a console at the expected power allows MS and sony to either ride out their 10 year cycle fantasies or make a nice profit with systems that are merely PS360-Cafe leaps in performance over cafe.

It's a shallow game as mario party. Both are fun for casual and multiplayer experience, no one would argue with that.

Spoken like someone who is just bad at smash... (or hasn't played it more than once or twice) Awful comparison.

 

[watershed]

And the exact opposite with the Wii.

"Always" is kind of a lie here.

I don't remember what they said about the Wii. To be honest I don't read IGN very closely but my impression of their style is that they indulge in hyperbole to generate hype, and don't apply much common sense to rumor-mongering. Am I wrong?

 

[Oblivion]

I'm still going with 'barely anymore powerful' for the Cafe. I know the rumoured specs, I know they're a sizable improvement, I just refuse to buy any of it until I know factually otherwise. I cannot, no matter how hard I try, see Nintendo jumping into any kind of high end hardware. They might say they're doing it, but stuff like the 3DS shows their interpretation of such things is very different to what most think.

In fact, I fully expect the Cafe's reveal to be seriously underwhelming on a graphical level. I expect a lot of ports from third parties that are a mix of looking exactly the same as their 360/PS3 counterparts, and looking worse because they've spent less time with the hardware. From Nintendo I expect them to be like any developer who started from scratch with this generation's hardware; still getting used to the power under the hood. I dont doubt Nintendo will make full use of it over time, but they'll be starting like scratch like everybody else did years ago, and their titles will show.

Maybe this is a stupid perspective to have, especially based on the rumours. Whatever. I dig Nintendo, I dig thier games, and I dig their technological quirks. But they're well and truly out of the hardware race as far as I care, and I expect them to play extremely conservative even when they claim they're not. It will be a 3DS situation.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I refuse to buy into any of IGN's hyperbolic bullshittery. I dont care what their analysis of the hardware is, or what they're sources told them. They have a history of talking shit and over estimating and now is not the time to forget that.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, but if we're gonna base what Nintendo may do with Cafe by what they did with the 3DS, then I do think it's fair to give them credit cause it really is a generation+ upgrade from the DS. It's got 128 MB of RAM, which is 40 more than GC did, afterall (though to be fair most of that new RAM is for the OS, or so I've heard).

Snarky reply.

First link from that snarky reply.

Yeah, yeah I know. But I was trying to ask for another impressive game in addition to RE.

 

[Daschysta]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, but if we're gonna base what Nintendo may do with Cafe by what they did with the 3DS, then I do think it's fair to give them credit cause it really is a generation+ upgrade from the DS. It's got 128 MB of RAM, which is 40 more than GC did, afterall (though to be fair most of that new RAM is for the OS, or so I've heard).



Yeah, yeah I know. But I was trying to ask for another impressive game in addition to RE.

Why do you need another game?

Resident evil is running on the 3DS and shows that it's capable of running games of that caliber. It also shows it can run MT framework well. Another developer putting in similar effort shoudl be able to get similarly beautiful results.

I don't remember what they said about the Wii. To be honest I don't read IGN very closely but my impression of their style is that they indulge in hyperbole to generate hype, and don't apply much common sense to rumor-mongering. Am I wrong?

I seem to remember being pretty realistic, perhaps even pessimistic about the wii's power. Especially after finding out that it wasn't an HD console. I don't think that IGN hyperbolises any more than most other videogame "journalists", and plus since their the biggest one out their they shuld logically have the best sources, have a higher chance of receiving leaked info, and generally just be more "in the know".

 

[Oblivion]

I don't remember what they said about the Wii. To be honest I don't read IGN very closely but my impression of their style is that they indulge in hyperbole to generate hype, and don't apply much common sense to rumor-mongering. Am I wrong?

I remember very clearly from those days when they were one of the first to leak that the Wii would be an overclocked GC, which is why I'm willing to give IGN the benefit of the doubt since they're reports on the Wii were spot on.

Matt Cassamassina was (understandably) quite devastated (for years even).

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't remember what they said about the Wii. To be honest I don't read IGN very closely but my impression of their style is that they indulge in hyperbole to generate hype, and don't apply much common sense to rumor-mongering. Am I wrong?

They were the only ones to accurately report the power of the Wii. While other sites were claiming that it would be near 360-levels, because that would have been logical, IGN was claiming the "Gamecube with more RAM" stuff.

A lot of people got really, really angry at IGN for spreading what they thought was FUD.

E3 the following year basically proved them right.

 

[Sianos]

Beyond the Labrynth looked really nice as well.

And the main character wears pants!

 

[Hcoregamer00]

If Cafe is reasonably close to the next Sony and Microsoft powerhouses, I don't see why they wouldn't port their games. It's not like now, where two consoles are in HD and one is still SD. Microsoft and Sony's new consoles will not somehow output 2000p graphics (hint: because there are no 2000p TVs).

Yes, the new Sony and Microsoft powerhouses will be more powerful than Cafe. No, they won't be miles ahead like now.

Yeah, the cafe will narrow the divide considerably. Programmable shaders automatically make this console far more palpable for many development companies.

 

[Instro]

Yeah, yeah I know. But I was trying to ask for another impressive game in addition to RE.

MGS3D and Beyond the Labyrinth are also quite impressive looking. I think Revelations is currently the top dog though, probably because Capcom was able to port over MT Framework which is why SF4 shits all over the other launch games as well.

IIRC Kingdom Hearts 3DS looked quite nice as well.

 

[Oblivion]

Why do you need another game?

Cause I like eye candy.

They were the only ones to accurately report the power of the Wii. While other sites were claiming that it would be near 360-levels, because that would have been logical, IGN was claiming the "Gamecube with more RAM" stuff.

A lot of people got really, really angry at IGN for spreading what they thought was FUD.

E3 the following year basically proved them right.

Technically...Game Informer was right too, but they put that info in their rumor section.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

I mean, you're saying if I delve into some creepy Pokemon battler network of 13 year olds where i get like a Magic the Gathering time sync obsession i might eventually knock into the substance, but the reality is I play to collect the most monsters I can get and beat the game. if the battle system is not challenged in the game, then it has failed as far as I'm concerned. It's too cheesy. I'm not saying it's not there for someone else, it's just not for me. I think it's shitty game design.

This is akin to crapping on CoD single player for its linear gameplay and level design while ignoring its multiplayer appeal to others because you're not into it.

 

[watershed]

They were the only ones to accurately report the power of the Wii. While other sites were claiming that it would be near 360-levels, because that would have been logical, IGN was claiming the "Gamecube with more RAM" stuff.

A lot of people got really, really angry at IGN for spreading what they thought was FUD.

E3 the following year basically proved them right.

I see. Well then maybe that adds credibility to their system mock up, which again has made quite a few people angry because it suggests that cafe games, at least visually, will not look much better than current hd games. If IGN is right again I wonder how gaf will react?

I think hd Nintendo games will knock everyone's socks off but multiplats get an "eh" reaction. Also if the system is gonna be what IGN is reporting the price better reflect that. $250 to $300 tops.

 

[Daschysta]

Cause I like eye candy.



Technically...Game Informer was right too, but they put that info in their rumor section.

Yummmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Og2EHca4A

KH3DS looks really good for gameplay, sans crappy youtube quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru4f4cLGOvE

Beyond the Labyrinth looks beautiful too.

Plus of course MSG3D and even SFIV3D, which could easily be called "downscaled PS360" without being too horrible of a liar.

I'm sure SM3DS will look pretty comparable to SMG which will be pure sex on a small screen.

I see. Well then maybe that adds credibility to their system mock up, which again has made quite a few people angry because it suggests that cafe games, at least visually, will not look much better than current hd games. If IGN is right again I wonder how gaf will react?

I think hd Nintendo games will knock everyone's socks off but multiplats get an "eh" reaction. Also if the system is gonna be what IGN is reporting the price better reflect that. $250 to $300 tops.

I think most people would be pleasantly suprised with ANY improvements over PS360 on multiplats after how apathetic 3rd parties made wii owners this gen to be honest xD.

Plus the exact parts in IGN's rig put into a closed box system will look significantly better than their mock up's performance due to optimizations, unless nintendo does something really, really dumb like massively cheaping out on ram, which thankfully is actually something nintendo never really does. Their usually pretty awesome about putting really fast ram in reasonable amounts into their systems.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

RV770 is low-end now, it'll be even lower-end by late 2012 when Cafe launches.

RV740 is even lower-end still.

I *will* cry if Cafe uses anything less than RV740 as the base of the GPU.

 

[Lonely1]

Firstly, I'm not ignoring the rest of your post I just hate quoting long text, it looks messy.
Second, I don't think it will be "gimped", I think the reasonable expectation is that it uses tech from 2008 or so. So I'm sure it will be more powerful than the 360 or PS3 but I don't think it will look that way except to the "discerning eye" again largely improvements made to technical execution versus seeing something like not-faked hd demos and thinking "this is clearly a generation beyond the ps2" for instance.

Eh, that depends on who you ask. For many (you can see it here at GAF), current PC games don't look a gen ahead even though the are taxing hardware that might surpass what we will get with the 720/Ps4. For me, even early multipas titles like CoD4 and Mirror's Edge looks significantly better on my 2008 PC, a gen ahead even.

RV770 is low-end now, it'll be even lower-end by late 2012 when Cafe launches.

RV740 is even lower-end still.

I *will* cry if Cafe uses anything less than RV740 as the base of the GPU.

No, is middle end atm, it surpasses the real middle end solutions like the Radeon HD 6670.

 

[Daschysta]

RV770 is low-end now, it'll be even lower-end by late 2012 when Cafe launches.

RV740 is even lower-end still.

I *will* cry if Cafe uses anything less than RV740 as the base of the GPU.

To be fair it's more like low-mid end in PCs, and anything WAY more powerful would be somewhat impractical to put into a console given when manufacturing of cafe is set to begin given heating and die size etc... In a console it is a nice little graphics card. Can't just outright compare console graphics to PC graphics in that way, the console will always always lose.

Eh, that depends on who you ask. For many (you can see it here at GAF), current PC games don't look a gen ahead even though the are taxing hardware that might surpass what we will get with the 720/Ps4. For me, even early multipas titles like CoD4 and Mirror's Edge looks significantly better on my 2008 PC, a gen ahead even.

Exactly. The days of simply blowing away the average consumer with graphics that immediately obselete the previous consoles based solely on graphics are over, at least for a while.

Should be a good thing for consumers though the companies will have to be more creative in their innovations and they won't be able to justify ridiculous prices as easily either.

 

[DragonKnight]

If Cafe is reasonably close to the next Sony and Microsoft powerhouses, I don't see why they wouldn't port their games. It's not like now, where two consoles are in HD and one is still SD. Microsoft and Sony's new consoles will not somehow output 2000p graphics (hint: because there are no 2000p TVs).

Yes, the new Sony and Microsoft powerhouses will be more powerful than Cafe. No, they won't be miles ahead like now.

I would say that even with the decreased power gap between the three next gen consoles nintendo still wouldn't see the third party support of the ps4 and the 720. Call it two console cycles of nintendo sabotaging their third party relations. They really need to turn things around here.

 

[Instro]

I see. Well then maybe that adds credibility to their system mock up, which again has made quite a few people angry because it suggests that cafe games, at least visually, will not look much better than current hd games. If IGN is right again I wonder how gaf will react?

I think hd Nintendo games will knock everyone's socks off but multiplats get an "eh" reaction. Also if the system is gonna be what IGN is reporting the price better reflect that. $250 to $300 tops.

I would say that it gives them credibility in that they have some good sources, their mockup on the other hand is clearly not a good way to guess at power. Its still a cool article though.

I would say that even with the decreased power gap between the three next gen consoles nintendo still wouldn't see the third party support of the ps4 and the 720. Call it two console cycles of nintendo sabotaging their third party relations. They really need to turn things around here.

To be honest I really dont think developers hold grudges like that, even Epic has said they would be on board a Nintendo console that can run their engines. At the very least they have good relationships with Japanese devs, they might not get exclusives from western devs but I dont think anyone would skip releasing a multiplat on the Cafe if its possible.

 

[Daschysta]

I would say that even with the decreased power gap between the three next gen consoles nintendo still wouldn't see the third party support of the ps4 and the 720. Call it two console cycles of nintendo sabotaging their third party relations. They really need to turn things around here.

Good thing developers don't make the financial decisions. If a game is easily portable it will be ported, unless there is some special arrangment.

Publishers won't leave money on the table just because the developers "aren't nintendo fans"

Even developers like epic have said they have no problem putting UE on nintendo systems provided they reach the minimum technical requirements.

Nintendo's gulfs with 3rd parties historically have been... Carts... Massively weaker hardware preventing down-ports without a brand new game essentially... and draconian quality standards prohibitive to some games.

None have anything to do with any "grudge" or really anything other than technology quirks that make support on the scale of the competitors less profitable.

From what we know (PS4 and 720 will be nowhere near as powerful relative to cafe compared to wii-hd twins, that it will use high capacity disk format, will output 1080P) there are no technical limitations to ports. Even gamecube got early support before it became clear that 3rd party software wasn't selling even with it's tiny storage capacity. Unless most multiplat games absolutely bomb they should still get ports.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I've said it before, I expect Xbox3/PS4 to be significantly more powerful than Cafe, but nothing like the gulf between 360/PS3 and Wii.

 

[Sianos]

I would say that even with the decreased power gap between the three next gen consoles nintendo still wouldn't see the third party support of the ps4 and the 720. Call it two console cycles of nintendo sabotaging their third party relations. They really need to turn things around here.

I find it silly that developers will refuse an easy port because "they don't like Nintendo". I don't know where the thought of the lack of multiplat games that hitting the Wii was because developers were holding personal grudges, but it's a really srange idea.

Developers want money: they won't turn down an easy way to increase their profits just because they've had disagreements with Nintendo in the past.

 

[dwu8991]

I've said it before, I expect Xbox3/PS4 to be significantly more powerful than Cafe, but nothing like the gulf between 360/PS3 and Wii.

One of the problems with more powerfull hardware is that developers tend to spam the amount of enemies. It just becomes a repetitive grind killing the same said enemy over and over again. Case in point, Vanquish. Nintendo, to their credit recognize this.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I'll be really unhappy if Skyrim does not come to Cafe.