The 7850 has 20.
I must be misunderstanding what a CU is, then.
EDIT: The 7870 has 20CUs, but I'm not sure about the 7850.
EDIT2: I was right. the 7850 only has 16CUs. Or rather, it has 20 but four are disabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/...-hd-7850-review-rounding-out-southern-islands
Those 7790 rumors are probably fake, since it would definitely be more powerful than the 7850.
100% agree and would add that "AMD is betting the farm on HSA" and needs Sony and game/application developers to use it, make it a standard. Thus AMD working with Khronos and making this an Open Standard. Sony Should use the 2014 FULL HSA design which is Jaguar (without FPU means it's designed to use the GPU for math) not Steamroller which has a FPU.Ashes1396 said:1. See op for ign apu rumour. Note first gen apu
2, trinity second gen apu coming out now, so ps4 spec will at least be that.
3, next year sees third gen apu. One presumes that ps4 will have that apu.
3rd gen apu comes with steamroller cores - the high performance part. Thus we expected ps4 to use an apu based on this chip.
But now somebody on Gaf posted information gleamed from a friend who works at AMD, claiming, that the plan has changed to use the lower powered 3rd gen apu with jaguar cores.
Nobody knows. Nothing is confirmed. And on top of that everything is changing in the manufactory as well. A fairly big shift.
The Sony CTO interview on Playstation tech gave us the objectives. Reading that interview and the SimiAccurate post then AMD APU fusion specs give a nearly 1:1 correlation with the 2014 AMD SOC design stated goals.Mark my words, if PS4 is not to be launched before holiday 2013 or Q1 2014 then there will be no demo of PS4 during E3. It's all about pushing Vita sales.
With all the talk of stacking, FPGA, etc (which fly over my head most of the time), I wonder if Sony has finalized how capable the machine is supposed to be (not specs mind you, rather objectives) given (once again) rumours about MS making changes to their own design now after third party input.
So far the collective rumours point to these probable specs:
- SoC with APU comprising of either Steamroller (mainstream) or Jaguar (mobile platform) CPU
- On board GPU being equivalent to Radeon HD 5XXX
- Discrete GPU akin to alleged Pitcairn LE a.k.a HD7790
- Total system (and perhaps shared) 2GB GDDR5
- Blu- Ray
- Est. TDP is betwen 200 to 250W for first iteration
Personally, I thought that 3D stacking may allow for greater amount of RAM in the given space.
or up to 6 monitors.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#ATI.2FAMD said:Designed to support internal chip-to-chip communication
Aimed at replacing internal LVDS links to display panels with a unified link interface
Compatible with low-voltage signaling used with sub-nanometer CMOS fabrication
Can drive display panels directly, eliminating scaling and control circuits and allowing for cheaper and slimmer displays (also includes a power line)
To fully support two 21.6 Gbps streams or 4K resolution will require very fast memory like 3D stacked or Ultra wide I/O 3D stacked (only in the SOC) and a highly parallel design. A possible reason for 2 GPUs? (Supported by Sony CTO interview and SimiAccurate post) Sony CTO said 8K by 4K and 300FPS combined support which could be PS5 or the PS4 is a 2014 AMD design with specs that have not been released with more support for Higher resolutions or Sony is specifying changes to support higher res.As of January 2012, the latest HD 7000 series graphics cards - along with a dual-link DVI connector and a HDMI connector - feature support for two Mini DisplayPorts 1.2 ( bandwidth of 21.6 Gbps each), allowing daisy-chaining up to six monitors, up to 4096x2160 (4K resolution) or 2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D per display and high bit-rate audio from the same connector, optionally behaving like a single large display.
Neither can announce anything till after Oct 2012 when AMD & IBM give a green light on Yields to both Sony and Microsoft. TGS 2012 is a possible for Sony given your view. Also likely are slightly more credible leaks by both companies with a possibility that both companies might start disclosing what's possible next generation at E3 (wink wink) but not announcing a release date.If I were Sony, I wouldn't let a competitor go into a Christmas season, without the consumer knowing, a better console, is right around the corner. And for that gut instinct alone, I think we'll see a reveal sooner than a launch in 2014, would suggest.
Feature wise, potentially depending on the AMD building blocks chosen by Sony for the SOC. CPU power, Yes..the Fusion CPU-GPU should be on the order of 16-30 Cell SPUs with 2014 GPU in the APU then 113% efficiencies are possible allowing for reduced power/heat or more performance equal to even more SPUs or more likely a combination of power/heat reduction with higher performance. Not mentioned yet is turbo mode which allows the CPU in the APU to run at a higher clock speed for limited periods for critical code or the Zero power Standby modes supported by AMD designs, temp sensing and with overheat automatic clock speed reductions and more.If true, is it powerful then?
Is AMD also to RE-invent ray-tracing for games with the heterogenous approach ?
https://amdfusion.activeevents.com/sche ... jsp?sy=798 CC-4168 and
Illumination !
Global Illumination Using Ray-Bundle Tracing
"" Global illumination drastically improves visual realism of interactive applications. However, its computation is expensive and highly dependent on the complexity of the scene. We demonstrate global illumination applications using ray-bundle tracing. Ray-bundles can be easily exploited with a DirectX 11 capable GPU. Furthermore, it supports hardware tessellation. We show this technique is not only useful for precomputation of static scenes, but also for robust dynamic solutions. ""
Physics ?
GPGPU Algorithms: How Heterogenous Systems Architecture Can Be Leveraged to Optimize Such Algorithms in Video Games
"" This presentation will provide a broad view on the use of GPGPU algorithms and how Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) can be leveraged to optimize such algorithms in video games. A survey of current usage scenarios will be presented, and ideas will be proposed about the new possibilities this compelling combination opens in future games. ""
Fabric Engine: High-Performance Computing for Dynamic Languages
"" Fabric Engine is a high-performance processing engine that integrates with dynamic languages such as javaskript and Python and exposes an interface for defining high-performance, multi-threaded, native computation. In this talk, Peter Zion will present an overview of Fabric’s architecture and how it can be used to bring multi-threaded performance to web applications. ""
"" HSAIL is a new virtual byte code and virtual machine designed for parallel compute on heterogeneous devices. HSAIL makes it easy to compile high performance code both for current and future architectures. HSAIL programs will run unchanged on future hardware . Unlike AMDIL which is the graphics byte code, HSAIL has been architected to support modern high level programming languages such as Java and C++. This talk will introduce HSAIL at a high level, go over the virtual machine, Next we will talk about the compilation model, the reasons for a byte code rather than an exposed ISA and how HSAIL opens up HSA hardware to compiler and tool developers. We will review how HSAIL is different from PTX/LLVM and Java Byte code. Finally we will go over the one HSAIL important aspects– the memory model. Unlike previous GPU byte codes, the HSAIL memory model uses a formal design based on acquire/release semantics. ""
Ask the Experts: Heterogeneous and GPU Compute with AMD’s Manju Hegde Article is about HSA being AMDs future. Comments are interesting as there is an Intel Shrill talking about AVX2 vector processing extensions for X86 in Intel processors (8X faster). Mentioned is the OS has to support the 256 bit register operations which Linux (2008) and FreeBSD Jan 2012 do now support. Really Intel must be worried about AMD APUs and SOCs. The Shrill keeps talking up homogeneous processors (same code not OpenCL used) with CPUs evolving toward GPUs not CPU-CPU combined APUs the future. The point still missed in the talks is HSA support for multiple different CPUs like FPGA in the SOC , APU evolves to a SOC in 2014 with any CPU being HSA supportable. It's not just X86!IOMMUv2: The Ins and Outs of the Heterogeneous GPU Use
"" Using the GPU in a heterogeneous platform environments requires access to system memory that transcends the use scenarios of traditional IOMMU devices in system software. To that end AMD introduced the IOMMUv2 device in the platform that in addition to IOMMU functionality as used by virtualization SW provides hardware services that can be utilized as HSA MMU for more efficient but secure memory access in application software. This session provides an overview of the hardware device and its many uses in system software for virtualization and HSA. ""
this was just posted on engadget http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/15/amd-trinity-apu-unveiled/
might be relevant. sorry for the sloppy post, posting from my phone.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5492/amds-rory-read-outlines-amds-future-strategy said:AMD plans on leveraging OEMs to deliver its products but it also wants to explore other routes as well. Rory referenced the game console model, where AMD would sell an ODM a chip solution tailored specifically to their needs.
Yes, AMD does have its finger in a lot of pies at the moment...
If true, is it powerful then?
Why are people assuming PS4 will be more powerful than nextbox ?
Why are people assuming it won't?
Microsoft is a business first and foremost. They wont sacrifice even 50 bucks per console just to get something more powerful than Sony. If anything, they will be very similar.
I knew you were "old" Jeff, but didn't think you were that old to ask us if that was an xbox =P.
Yes, it's a 360.
Seems like something they'll try to get down to 28nm to implement into a console. Increase performance and power usage even more so.
Why are people assuming PS4 will be more powerful than nextbox ?
Why are people assuming PS4 will be more powerful than nextbox ?
If I were Sony, I wouldn't let a competitor go into a Christmas season, without the consumer knowing, a better console, is right around the corner. And for that gut instinct alone, I think we'll see a reveal sooner than a launch in 2014, would suggest.
Does this quote not suggest that PS4 will be more powerful ?
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Wii U
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Wii U
Then I apologise.
Please ignore my post.
Just being lazy.I assumed he was being rhetorical.
btw, today, they released mobile apu, I think we get desktop apu in a few months.
I presume mobility covers mobile apus. Embedded covers consoles it seems. Good find Jeff.
I suppose, Microsoft is probably going for a v. powerful cpu from IBM though.
Just being lazy.
Trinity is 100% more efficient than the last generation at the same 32nm die size and 2014 will be what %? Including new HSA features plus a reduction to 28nm may be another 100%.
Trinity is still GPU and CPU on same die at 32nm. The 2013 Global foundries SOC process is supposed to be separate "process optimized" building blocks to build custom SOCs to customer specs and might have 28nm CPU and GPU with southbridge at 22nm.
Notice Trinity has 4 DDR3 memory interfaces to speed up memory access. It could use 3D stacked and one.
Notice Trinity has 4 DDR3 memory interfaces to speed up memory access. It could use 3D stacked and one.
Trinity still features two 64-bit DDR3 memory controllers
So can we expect "step 3" next year? Or is that too far off?
Also, I wonder how long this type of design would help x86 retain Moore's Law. I feel like it'll be short lived, even with 3D stacked wafers.
You're getting what I'm getting, the exploitation phase-SOC custom design phase is the 2014 design and manufactured in 2013 by the consortium. Full HSA to include GPU redesign and what else? 3D stacked memory.... Remember this is supposed to be their 2014-2020 building blocks for SOCs so higher than 4K resolution is probable but probably not possible without 3D stacked memory or ultra wide I/O 3D stacked which won't be available till 2013. All specs for the last 3 years had to work with slower memory so 2 interleaved DDR3 memory controllers to get enough bandwidth for 4K and their Infinity eye View.It could do, yeah. This is a step towards that.
And this is, in my view, more because of the updated gpu in Trnity (Northern islands (southern island integration next year).
With what we now 'know' about embedded being console chips, and not mobility, I don't have a clue as to what custom Jaguar chips are capable of.
We'll know more at Amd's summit in June, I'm sure.
This is from the desktop Llano chip, feature,
![]()
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review
(^^^ 2011)
(VVV 2012)
We're in step 2, optimisation, and step 3 should be the exploitation phase.
Your's right, it's 2 DDR3 2/3 interleaved.AlStrong said:Trinity still features two 64-bit DDR3 memory controllers
Like Llano, Trinity is manufactured on GlobalFoundries’ 32 nm SOI process. Default frequencies scale much higher than Llano did, with 3.8 GHz CPU and 800 MHz GPU ceilings for the top-end desktop parts. TDPs on the low-power mobile models dip down as far as 17 W. We’ll delve more into the specific productization shortly, but it’s at least apparent right away that Trinity scales both higher and lower than Llano.
The first part, providing Linux support as Other OS in the PS4 makes sense as it did with the PS3, an effort to expose heterogeneous computing and Cell and with the PS4, to expose AMD's Open Source HSA and OpenCL to as many programmers as possible.Insiders from Sony say they have introduced a customized kernel version rather than using the basic kernel to support this feature. This customized kernel may support specific versions of Linux only as a part of beta testing. Subsequently Sony will enable all version support after successful completion of beta testing.
But this time Sony is confident that they won’t block this feature, and that they have an alternative to block the security threats.
An inside source also says Sony’s firmware upgrade during the release of PlayStation 4 will re-enable the other OS support in PlayStation 3 as well. So it’s good news for PlayStation 3 owners too after suffering for couple of years. Moreover it’s believed to be a gamble to boost PlayStation 4 sales.
I'll believe SCE have sincere OtherOS intentions when I see the final product finishes its projected lifetime with this feature properly supported.PS4 rumored to have other OS Linux support and at PS4 release a firmware update to the PS3 will enable Other OS Linux support.
http://sonyps4.com/os-support-feature-banned-and-the-ps4/
The first part, providing Linux support as Other OS in the PS4 makes sense as it did with the PS3, an effort to expose heterogeneous computing and Cell and with the PS4, to expose AMD's Open Source HSA and OpenCL to as many programmers as possible.
The second part, enabling other OS support for the PS3 would be a marketing (sales) effort or perhaps support for Linux.
Opinions?
Ashes1396 said:If I were Sony, I wouldn't let a competitor go into a Christmas season, without the consumer knowing, a better console, is right around the corner. And for that gut instinct alone, I think we'll see a reveal sooner than a launch in 2014, would suggest.
Jeff_Rigby said:Neither can announce anything till after Oct 2012 when AMD & IBM give a green light on Yields to both Sony and Microsoft. TGS 2012 is a possible for Sony given your view. Also likely are slightly more credible leaks by both companies with a possibility that both companies might start disclosing what's possible next generation at E3 (wink wink) but not announcing a release date.
Best guess Sony is disclosing what's possible next generation and may not announce the PS4. Also the PS3 and Vita are getting major firmware updates this year in a number of areas. PS3 advanced features but partially supported because of hardware limitations leads into full support with the PS4 (same for the Xbox360).http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.videogameszone.de/PlayStation-4-Misc-Hardware-220102/News/Playstation-4-PS4-E3-2012-Sony-881952/ said:Sony would unveil at E3 2012, "the future of gameplay and innovation." While Sony has always denied again a PS4 announcement at E3 2012, but the wording sounds very new for a hardware.
PS4 rumored to have other OS Linux support and at PS4 release a firmware update to the PS3 will enable Other OS Linux support.
http://sonyps4.com/os-support-feature-banned-and-the-ps4/
The first part, providing Linux support as Other OS in the PS4 makes sense as it did with the PS3, an effort to expose heterogeneous computing and Cell and with the PS4, to expose AMD's Open Source HSA and OpenCL to as many programmers as possible.
The second part, enabling other OS support for the PS3 would be a marketing (sales) effort or perhaps support for Linux.
Opinions?
PS4 will have Linux.PS4 rumored to have other OS Linux support and at PS4 release a firmware update to the PS3 will enable Other OS Linux support. .... Opinions?
PS4+Steam at this point would be the only things to get me to buy the next playstation.
With all due respect to deadlast.WTF does "ps4+steam" even mean? Makes about as much sense as "ps4+720".
I'll believe SCE have sincere OtherOS intentions when I see the final product finishes its projected lifetime with this feature properly supported.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..
PS4+Steam at this point would be the only things to get me to buy the next playstation.
WTF does "ps4+steam" even mean? Makes about as much sense as "ps4+720".
Yea it makes no sense. Why would you want to play a steam port on the PS4? Almost any major game on steam is gonna have a ps4/xbox port that runs alot better.
Yea it makes no sense. Why would you want to play a steam port on the PS4? Almost any major game on steam is gonna have a ps4/xbox port that runs alot better.
Yea it makes no sense. Why would you want to play a steam port on the PS4? Almost any major game on steam is gonna have a ps4/xbox port that runs alot better.
This exact feature is rumored for the ps4.For games that are PC only, or have ports for older systems, like the PS3 or PS2. And older games. Indie bundles as well, even if some of the games might have a PS4 port, chances are you're not going to get a PSN key with the bundle. PS4 with Linux should be able to run basically everything on gog.com, almost none of which has a PS3 port or will have a PS4 port.