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[BigBadShamoo]

It's almost like not allowing anyone to drive a car because we don't want car accidents.


This decision by the Splatoom team feels like a mass punishment decision. Sure there are some that treat and use voice chat in a way that many would deem positive. But as always it's always the bad things that engulf and overshadow the good which thus creates these wierd limitations that throttle and control things that many people have enjoyed.


This isn't surprising me at all, maybe it's my military background. But overall in my opinion, the decision that was made sucks.

 

[Cosmozone]

I pay real adult money from my real adult job to enjoy Nintendo consoles and games.

I am sick of Nintendo treating all of their customers like vulnerable children.

Unfortunately, we're in the minority.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Can anyone explain to me why voice chat isnt an option in LoL in-game? And why those reasons aren't accepted for Splatoon?

Because 3rd party options are so widespread it's not necessary, the game is free, and the chat options are as well. If you could install anything onto the WiiU then this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I wish more companies would try and find different solutions to team communication other than using a Mic because goddamn it's just the worst.

TF2 and L4D both did great stuff with contextual in-character speech.
It made audio communications a seamless part fo gameplay, and let the characters demonstrate some personality you just don't see in most games where you're just a cypher.

 

[phanphare]

The option should absolutely be there. Does the Wii U have a party chat system?

nope

 

[Reverend Funk]

I cannot believe any is actually in favor of not even having the option for voice chat. Like seriously what is even going on??

 

[Trey]

An unprovable statement. Hence not criticism. It goes right up there with: the characters should all be rabbits or blobs of blue. It is a meaningless complaint.

Your premise excises the inherent value of team chat and/or states that creator intent is absolute. Both premises are flawed and misguided.

We can prove the value of voice chat by looking at other games in the genre. In fact, the very nature of team based games lend themselves to communication being a key component. This is true in all team games wherein the lack of information is not a design parameter (such as spades or charades).

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

What in the universe are you talking about?

You can't PROVE a criticism is right or wrong. It's someone's opinion.

The only thing you can PROVE is that something is there or not. I.e., this game is 60fps, this game is 1080p.

You can't PROVE that the game not having a particular feature is inherently superior or not, you can only state your opinion on it. And that opinion is absolutely, beyond any shadow of a doubt a criticism. Jesus christ.

Are you not following the argument? A statement about something not in the game, as it relates to the game, is a statement about the properties of the game and its impact on it. It is not a subjective statement in its intent. If s is a part of X, you cannot say that it would a negative or a positive because it doesn't have it and therefore you do not know. I.E you are not at the point of subjectivity yet. If a game Y, that is the same as X but with s added to it were to be released, then you are right in your arguments. But until that happens, you must prove your point for you to have a subjective opinion. Hence why arguing the merits of all Ps in X is criticism.

Why is this so hard for you? These are basic rules of logic.

 

[Jarmel]

Because 3rd party options are so widespread it's not necessary, the game is free, and the chat options are as well. If you could install anything onto the WiiU then this wouldn't be an issue.

Pretty much. On PC, so many people use third party options such as TeamSpeak that it's not a huge deal.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Plants vs Zombies (PC) voice chat was such a clusterfuck; ppl trolling, ppl talking in their own language, ppl who just would not shut up; I ended up muting most ppl who used their mic. It did not do anything to make the game more fun or tactical, it just dragged down the experience. It's one of the reasons I got a refund from EA.
I can imagine Splatoon could up end up the same way if it had open voice chat like that, so I don't see a reason why voice chat with randoms is a must.
However I do think they should strongly consider voice chat for friend team games.
I don't understand why this issue has to go with such strong emotions and negativity though.

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

Your premise excises the inherent value of team chat and/or states that creator intent is absolute. Both premises are flawed and misguided.

We can prove the value of voice chat by looking at other games in the genre. In fact, the very nature of team based games lend themselves to communication being a key component. This is true in all team games wherein the lack of information is not a design parameter (such as spades or charades).

Because there is no method you can use to show inherent value of Voice-Chat in any one specific game. If this is the path you want to take, you would have to prove induction.

 

[Newtype-001]

I'm not stopping you from enjoying games that have voice chat. All I'm saying is not every game needs to or should try to cater to every person. To me it seems perfectly reasonable for a developer to look around at the toxicity that exists in games that allow anons to voice chat with other anons and then conclude "yeah, nope; not for us".

Which is where the lazy argument comes in.
within the 1st few pages of this threads gaffers came up with multiple counter measures such as:

- having VC set to default mute and having to opt in if you want to use it.
- Parental controls on the games startup which can help parents set VC in a way they like.
- or at the bare minimum have VC only for friends but they couldnt even do that.

Instead of looking for a way to appease both sides and give options the devs just cut it all out essentially cutting out some fun player experience.

 

[Amir0x]

Are you not following the argument? A statement about something not in the game, as it relates to the game, is a statement about the properties of the game and its impact on it. It is not a subjective statement in its intent. If s is a part of X, you cannot say that it would a negative or a positive because it doesn't have it and therefore you do not know. I.E you are not at the point of subjectivity yet. If a game Y, that is the same as X but with s added to it were to be released, then you are right in your arguments. But until that happens, you must prove your point for you to have a subjective opinion. Hence why arguing the merits of all Ps in X is criticism.

Continually saying this nonsense is 'logical' does not make it so.

It's simple, if you think a game would play better with a particular feature it's missing and can articulate why, that's a criticism. Point blank. You don't have to like it, but you do have to deal with it.

 

[adelante]

Not be argumentative? Why not? The blank support of options CAN be a negative. Therefore it is a negative until proven otherwise in any one scenario. That is logic. There is no rationality in "but we know how this goes, right?". I was giving you an example of when it COULD be a negative, but it doesn't even have to have that excuse. The creator doesn't like it is good enough.

Conversely, having a voice chat option can be deemed as beneficial until it is proven otherwise.

And frankly, majority of the negatives, even the hypothetical ones, can be easily avoided if voice chat exists as an option.

 

[Zornack]

Because 3rd party options are so widespread it's not necessary, the game is free, and the chat options are as well. If you could install anything onto the WiiU then this wouldn't be an issue.

Yup. Even if the Wii U just had a party chat system the lack of Splatoon-specific chat would be 99.99999% less of an issue.

 

[NotLiquid]

The only argument is that there is no case to be made that Squidboards having any particular preference about any subject in the game is a "big deal." GAF having a big deal of an issue in a game like Splatoon is infinitely more important, and that IS because of its size. It's a hugely influential community, unlike Squidboards.

If the game sells 50,000 units and Squidboards has 2000 active players from it, then we'll talk about how important that community is in their view of the game (even though that wouldn't change how ridiculous thinking not even allowing a voice chat option in the title is OK is). As of now, the community measures a bare shit and all on the 'big deal' meter.

This is fair and all, but considering at least half of this thread is ready to defend the decision it means that even in spite of a larger voice, there's a larger degree of overall contention. That's part of the reason this thread is so huge.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Not be argumentative? Why not? The blank support of options CAN be a negative. Therefore it is a negative until proven otherwise in any one scenario. That is logic. There is no rationality in "but we know how this goes, right?". I was giving you an example of when it COULD be a negative, but it doesn't even have to have that excuse. The creator doesn't like it is good enough.

Why not? Because you make no fking sense! Why would anyone be argumentative for the sake of it? You have nothing to back your statement up..nothing. And the people asking for the feature aren't doing it because it's 'blank support'. This is not a new feature and has been a staple on online mp shooters for ages now. There is not a single logical argument you can bring up so far against it. The only line you're hanging on to is 'well maybe the devs wanted it so we can hear the squids talk instead' ....I mean what?

And how the living hell are options, in this particular instant, can be a negative? How? Ya'all being ridiculous now

 

[Entryhazard]

- Nintendo's Youtube creator's program because they're "protecting their IP"

More like Youtubers have become greedy and entitled and don't want to give up a legit share of the pie as it would endanger their grey comfort zone and they're using "free advertisement" as a cop-out

- Nintendo's decision not to include a charger with the New 3DS XL because "it helps reduce environmental waste"

More like "you don't have to pay for a second charger if you already have one".
It's not like they want to gouge you for the $10 charger. The handheld would have cost those $10 more anyway if the charger was included.

So you have 1) n3DS XL w/ charger at $210 or 2) n3DS XL at $200 and charger at $10

So you have this situation:

1. If you already have a charger you still need to shell out those $10 and good luck at reselling your duplicate unboxed at that price.
2. If you already have a charger you can avoid to buy another one saving those $10

• If you don't have one you pay the same anyway.

But for whatever reason it's the option 2 being anti-consumer.

But yeah those are tangential to the issue at hand in this thread

 

[Jpop]

Absolutely agree.

I find it bizarre that people are defending this.

 

[Amir0x]

This is fair and all, but considering at least half of this thread is ready to defend the decision it means that even in spite of a larger voice, there's a larger degree of overall contention. That's part of the reason this thread is so huge.

I'd wager if we threw up a poll, the numbers would be hugely disproportionately in favor of having the option.

Nintendo needs to get with the times. Include the options, allow everyone to be happy. otherwise, there's a lot more Wii U's in their future.

 

[Petrae]

I pay real adult money from my real adult job to enjoy Nintendo consoles and games.

I am sick of Nintendo treating all of their customers like vulnerable children.

But according to some of the arguments posited in this very thread... you, as an adult, are not Nintendo's (nor Splatoon's) target audience. If the audience is children, then the treatment is the same for everyone.

I want to think that Nintendo isn't "teh kiddyz", but the way some defenders here are backing Nintendo's decision-making... who knows?

 

[BigBadShamoo]

Plants vs Zombies (PC) voice chat was such a clusterfuck; ppl trolling, ppl talking in their own language, ppl who just would not shut up; I ended up muting most ppl who used their mic. It did not do anything to make the game more fun or tactical, it just dragged down the experience. It's one of the reasons I got a refund from EA.
I can imagine Splatoon could up end up the same way if it had open voice chat like that, so I don't see a reason why voice chat with randoms is a must.
However I do think they should strongly consider voice chat for friend team games.
I don't understand why this issue has to go with such strong emotions and negativity though.

Well going by that alone, there might even be more refunds for this game once people like that you muted that atleast use voice chat turn this game on to find out that feature is completely unavailable.

 

[NotLiquid]

I'd wager if we threw up a poll, the numbers would be hugely disproportionately in favor of having the option.

Nintendo needs to get with the times. Include the options, allow everyone to be happy. otherwise, there's a lot more Wii U's in their future.

It probably would be. I would vote all for having it in terms of friend lobbies. I don't think anyone would be willing to argue against that because, well, why the fuck not. But the thing is, my argument is less about having it in and more about the reason it should be in.

To put it in another way, I agree with you, and I also don't. (And while we're putting this out there, I also disagree with your sales projections, but that's a story for another topic honestly)

 

[bender]

Because there is no method you can use to show inherent value of Voice-Chat in any one specific game. If this is the path you want to take, you would have to prove induction.

Take two teams of equal skill, let one team use a 3rd party voice communication and the other no voice communication. Results of the matches should provide the proof you seek.

 

[Geg]

I would love a direct quote of this if you can. Because you basically answered your own statement there. Then Nintendo should follow through have make this the norm for ALL their games too surely. We have to think of the kids and all that

Here's the quote from the original thread about it, it looks like I imagined the "safe place for everyone" part but gist of the message is the same:

Edge magazine says "Splatoon has no voice chat and never will". Amano says: "This is coming from personal experience. When I played online games, I didn't like the negativity I got and people telling me 'You're crap. Go away'. So we wanted to focus on the positive aspects of online gaming". Amano says he's not saying that chat in an online game can't contribute to fun but they want to grab new players.

Keep in mind this was before we even knew what the options for playing with friends would be. This is why I think they will have some kind of chat with friends at some point; Amano says he's a fan of shooters and enjoys playing with friends.

 

[nampad]

Oh true enough. BUT you don't see anyone else approving of a lack of options like you do with Nintendo fans in general.

Well because Nintendo lacks the most options and is the definition of being backwards. This makes Nintendo apologists the worst.

No one needed cross chat on PS3 either according to many fanboys or look how many were fine with MS original vision for this generation.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Well, fuck this game then. Every announcement dampens my hype more. So many ass backwards decisions surrounding this game. SMDH Nintendo.
I can't believe there's a defence force for no voice chat. Good God.

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

Take two teams of equal skill, let one team use a 3rd party voice communication and the other no voice communication. Results of the matches should provide the proof you seek.

huh? but the game doesn't have it. How would you go about doing anything with this?

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Are you not following the argument? A statement about something not in the game, as it relates to the game, is a statement about the properties of the game and its impact on it. It is not a subjective statement in its intent. If s is a part of X, you cannot say that it would a negative or a positive because it doesn't have it and therefore you do not know. I.E you are not at the point of subjectivity yet. If a game Y, that is the same as X but with s added to it were to be released, then you are right in your arguments. But until that happens, you must prove your point for you to have a subjective opinion. Hence why arguing the merits of all Ps in X is criticism.

Why is this so hard for you? These are basic rules of logic.

This guy has to be toying with us, there is no way anyone would sit next to him or use use voice chat if they had to hear this. Maybe this is his tactic all along! None of what he is saying makes any sense. Some people enjoy having voice chat, that is already the burden of proof. Having voice chat completely removed has not been proven to be beneficial because at the end of the day having the options there to turn it on or off serves everyone's needs. Removing it only serves those who do not wish to use it.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

huh? but the game doesn't have it. How would you go about doing anything with this?

Hypotheticals, how do they work?

 

[Chaos17]

Take two teams of equal skill, let one team use a 3rd party voice communication and the other no voice communication. Results of the matches should provide the proof you seek.

And that team probably used their own voice chat server/tool not the one provided by the game cause of shitty quality.

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

Continually saying this nonsense is 'logical' does not make it so.

It's simple, if you think a game would play better with a particular feature it's missing and can articulate why, that's a criticism. Point blank. You don't have to like it, but you do have to deal with it.

I agree with the first statement.

So now prove to me: For any object s(1...n) not in X, X + s(1...n) = AX, where A is whatever you think is better.

Conversely, for any object p(1...n) in X, X + p(1...n) = X = AX.

 

[Doukou]

huh? but the game doesn't have it. How would you go about doing anything with this?

Read it again the 3rd party part.

 

[Deified Data]

I think removing voice chat from all games would ultimately be a net positive.

 

[Amir0x]

It probably would be. I would vote all for having it in terms of friend lobbies. I don't think anyone would be willing to argue against that because, well, why the fuck not. But the thing is, my argument is less about having it in and more about the reason it should be in.

To put it in another way, I agree with you, and I also don't. (And while we're putting this out there, I also disagree with your sales projections, but that's a story for another topic honestly)

How much do you think a new IP on Wii U is going to sell? I'm curious to be honest.

 

[Jarmel]

I'd wager if we threw up a poll, the numbers would be hugely disproportionately in favor of having the option.

Nintendo needs to get with the times. Include the options, allow everyone to be happy. otherwise, there's a lot more Wii U's in their future.

Nintendo doesn't give a fuck. You could have a poll with tens of thousands of people supporting it and they would shrug it off.

Their online instructure and general attitude towards online gaming is from the late 1990s to early 2000.

 

[bender]

huh? but the game doesn't have it. How would you go about doing anything with this?

Get one team on Skype, Mumble, TeamSpeak, etc.

And that team probably used their own voice chat server/tool not the one provided by the game cause of shitty quality.

Awesome? Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. He's looking for proof. I'm just trying to provide a method for him to obtain it.

 

[xevis]

Which is where the lazy argument comes in.
within the 1st few pages of this threads gaffers came up with multiple counter measures such as:

- having VC set to default mute and having to opt in if you want to use it.
- Parental controls on the games startup which can help parents set VC in a way they like.
- or at the bare minimum have VC only for friends but they couldnt even do that.

Instead of looking for a way to appease both sides and give options the devs just cut it all out essentially cutting out some fun player experience.

I don't agree with this "more more more" mentality. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be done just because someone might want it. If the feature does not fit with authorial intent it has no place being there no matter how much you might personally want it. I cannot fathom that this topic did not come up at some point during Nintendo's development meetings for this game. The fact that voice chat is omitted seems to me on purpose. As has been pointed out over and over again, there are pretty easy workarounds involving other apps. Alternatively, if voice chat is so important for your overall experience that you simply cannot live without, perhaps consider playing something else.

 

[HF2014]

Seriously, i dont see whats the problem here because of no voice chat.Nintendo is a toy company, and their primary targets are kids. Do you think they want parents to ear things in their kids game like " f**k off, you suck, etc, any blasfemy words that you wouldnt want your kid to hear?

If heard enough in COD to always mute everyone because im just tired of hearing stupid things. Good thing they didnt include that. I only hope they will add more emote like option to give the ability to do more strategy if you want to compete with friends, not asking more. Even if it doesnt happen, its a day one for me.

 

[Ninja Of Chaos]

Hypotheticals, how do they work?

That is not a hypothetical that has value in the argument though. If it has it, players are better doesn't do anything to my point.

 

[BigBadShamoo]

Wow that quote by Amano is crazy lol. Yeah no one likes to be told you're crap but Atleast you were notified and compared by another player LOL. That player was just pointing out facts just like we are here.

 

[BlackJace]

I've been in this thread before that quote and my stance remain the same. If it's a team oriented game, I don't see the harm in having the option to turn voice chat on or off. If you build the environment of fun, I think being fun friendly is what you are going to receive from your community. If Nintendo doesn't trust their own fan base, children and adults a like, to continue that all the way into the game, then the game shouldn't have an online proponent and should have stayed local.

But since they made the decision to be online, they also made the decision to comply with basic online feature, which voice chat is apart of especially in this new day and age.

What I don't like is if you are calling out those who, like that post, make excuses for the stuff Nintendo signs up for which we as normal adults and kids in this day and age expect them to follow as all others - it is seen as "immature", "complaining" or whatever other ridiculous word use to describe "having opinion" and "honest real world expectations". There is no patting on the back or entertaining "fuckery" when there is truth to what is being said.

You are also free to agree to disagree. However, it's annoyance in frequency to how much is put into perspective when you see how many backwards decisions Nintendo has made and the many who make excuses, not "defending", to why they shouldn't be criticized for it - is pretty damn high.

Again, it's nothing special, you know? "Nintendo has a group of fans that will defend anything they do!"

Okay, it's also partly cloudy where I am.

I can replace Nintendo in that sentence with any other entity and the point remains the same. I might be going into backseat modding territory here, but it just seems like the thread's not even on the topic at hand. This always happens :/

It's absolutely patting of the back. The "truth" you speak of is common knowledge, examples pop up every single day -- why the echo-chamber?

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Seriously, i dont see whats the problem here because of no voice chat.Nintendo is a toy company, and their primary targets are kids. Do you think they want parents to ear things in their kids game like " f**k off, you suck, etc, any blasfemy words that you wouldnt want your kid to hear?

If heard enough in COD to always mute everyone because im just tired of hearing stupid things. Good thing they didnt include that. I only hope they will add more emote like option to give the ability to do more strategy if you want to compete with friends, not asking more. Even if it doesnt happen, its a day one for me.

The age demographics on the Wii U disagree with you. Do you really think kids are the ones playing Nintendo games? No sir, its grown-ass men who buy Nintendo products. These "it's for kids" arguments are not based in reality.

 

[nampad]

Seriously, i dont see whats the problem here because of no voice chat.Nintendo is a toy company, and their primary targets are kids. Do you think they want parents to ear things in their kids game like " f**k off, you suck, etc, any blasfemy words that you wouldnt want your kid to hear?

If heard enough in COD to always mute everyone because im just tired of hearing stupid things. Good thing they didnt include that. I only hope they will add more emote like option to give the ability to do more strategy if you want to compete with friends, not asking more. Even if it doesnt happen, its a day one for me.

Now go to an elementary school playground and you will hear all these words anyway. Stop kidding yourself with the "wah wah protect children" bullshit.

 

[Hugstable]

The age demographics on the Wii U disagree with you. Do you really think kids are the ones playing Nintendo games? No sir, its grown-ass men who buy Nintendo products. These "it's for kids" arguments are not based in reality.

I think alot of those decisions are made in regards to Japanese demographics. Are there any numbers for JP demographics like there is for US? Not saying the arguement isn't silly though ahah.

 

[NeonBlack]

huh? but the game doesn't have it. How would you go about doing anything with this?

"Take two teams of equal skill, let one team use a 3rd party voice communication and the other no voice communication. Results of the matches should provide the proof you seek."

"3rd party voice communication"

 

[Nanashrew]

There's no argument to be had. This dude was trying to make a case that the fact that this comically small community and its leader didn't seem to care about voice chat that this is a 'big deal.' 50x the number of people on GAF are going to buy Splatoon than even if every single person on Squidboards ended up getting it.

This THREAD is practically a bigger deal than the entire Squidboards.

1,500 is pretty big for a brand new competitive community based around a new IP. We're all niche hardcore gamers on GAF and Squidboards and won't reflect all sales. I have agreed that friend chat would be a good option to have, so have a lot of people from what I've seen, including Rami, even though people hated his Twitter comments. But many only find the news to be a mild annoyance and they'll just use Skype or something else.

 

[Terrell]

Wow that quote by Amano is crazy lol. Yeah no one likes to be told you're crap but Atleast you were notified and compared by another player LOL. That player was just pointing out facts just like we are here.

The "you're crap" example is a polite Japanese
man not wanting to reiterate the things actual people do say in voice chat in games. You are not going to see him ever retell what he wants to say, which is that if he were playing the game with an American, he'd be called a "Jap fag" by at least one of them. I'm guessing those are "facts" too? (I have no idea what Japanese trolls say to each other online, can't imagine it's any better, just different)
Rule of thumb when reading interviews with people from Japanese businesses: take the negative things they say and crank them up 300%, and that's usually what they actually mean.

 

[Dion Blaster]

I still can't think of a valid reason they would leave out an option for voice chat, or at least voice chatting with friends, other than laziness.

So I'm going to have to agree with IGN here.

 

[BigBadShamoo]

There are no two teams of equal skill.