IGN: Splatoon's lack of voice chat is "cheap and lazy"
- Thread starter Oddduck
- Start date
Catchpenny
Member
I'm sure being called cheap and lazy by a man who has worked half his life at IGN really stings.
astrogamer
Member
I got a feeling that they originally planned to but due to incorporating video chat and the ram, they had to turn it into a separate app
Yet it doesn't make the article wrong.
They don't. No self respecting gamer in their right mind would want to play Mario, Zelda or bayonetta.
Ranked player playing solo : http://www.twitch.tv/chu8
So yes, it's possible to win and coodinate without voice chating with your team.
So yes, it's possible to win and coodinate without voice chating with your team.
MetalKnick
Member
In my opinion, voice chat in random games in a nuisance. If you want voice chat in a friend game however, use Skype or something?
50 pages later...
Most of the people on this thread don't want to do that..
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'd rather have a party chat system then needing to hook up another device. Especially since I game with headphones. Using Skype on a secondary device would make it so I lose the audio from the game.
it being possible means nothing. i can go into halo and do the same thing. but for some people, it just straight up is not a fun experience. playing destiny multiplayer and not being able to hear anyone else on my team was awful. sure, i could win games...but it personally makes me feel really detached from the team aspect of it.
Dagobert Duck
Member
Im fine with no voicechat cause I barely ever use voicechat in other games...
Funny thing would be if someone would get into realistic voice chat...so you only hear and can speak to your teammates if you are close to them (in-game) would be a funny concept of all people grouping up for a briefing and then just go out on their own...shouldnt be that hard to imlpement
Funny thing would be if someone would get into realistic voice chat...so you only hear and can speak to your teammates if you are close to them (in-game) would be a funny concept of all people grouping up for a briefing and then just go out on their own...shouldnt be that hard to imlpement
The rest of the people he is on the team with are though through text chat and marking, which kinda speaks against your argument.
Matches are too short for that to happen I think.
Missed it by a mile.
I actually really liked proximity chat in Halo 3. It worked so you could hear the other team too if they were close enough, which was funny for some trash talk.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Rather than avoid voice chat out of fear of the young'uns, why not have it locked at first and can only be enabled via a parental guidance feature? If you're that concerned for your kids, then likely you'll have the parental locks and such on and the onus is on the parents on dealing with the voice chat pros and cons.
There's lots of ways to do this without losing the parent friendly image nor getting their lawyers all worried.
There's lots of ways to do this without losing the parent friendly image nor getting their lawyers all worried.
Dagobert Duck
Member
Whenever I actually used voicechat, it was mostly for trashtalking...but thats what I do in offline-multiplayer too
Nothing more rewarding than trashtalking your friends and family while destroying them Well it's not "cheap", but it sure is a "lazy" solution to me.
I get that Nintendo might not want innocent kids to hear cuss words they're already gonna hear at school, but it's still a weak reason to me. Apart from the options to just mute players that annoy you, the lack of voice chat between people on your friend's list is just dumb.
All it does is ensure Splatoon won't have a serious community, because Nintendo has provided limited means to communicate with that community.
I get that Nintendo might not want innocent kids to hear cuss words they're already gonna hear at school, but it's still a weak reason to me. Apart from the options to just mute players that annoy you, the lack of voice chat between people on your friend's list is just dumb.
All it does is ensure Splatoon won't have a serious community, because Nintendo has provided limited means to communicate with that community.
don't think it matters how bad a public chat can get, it's the fact that the devs didn't put an option in for voice chat in a competitive multiplayer game in 2015. nobody really cares how much you hate teenagers screaming over the mic. it's the fact that you don't have the option to hear them or not is what the problem is.
Man, all I've seen today are devs talk about this article and how dumb the "lazy and cheap" comment said by IGN. Even a Respawn dev got in on it just now.
It doesn't take much to see that it was a carefully thought out decision from the dev to do this and not some lazy or cheap thing. People keep ignoring the details and context. Even if you don't agree with it, it's stupid to call it lazy. And people in this thread keep bringing up past Nintendo games with voice chat and not even thinking that there possibly is a solution coming. Every single game mentioned of Nintendo's that had voice chat was limited to private lobbies and/or friend chat only. That is something that can still happen but we won't know until August.
Random chat can be absolutely awful and toxic so the okay solution is friend chat only.
It doesn't take much to see that it was a carefully thought out decision from the dev to do this and not some lazy or cheap thing. People keep ignoring the details and context. Even if you don't agree with it, it's stupid to call it lazy. And people in this thread keep bringing up past Nintendo games with voice chat and not even thinking that there possibly is a solution coming. Every single game mentioned of Nintendo's that had voice chat was limited to private lobbies and/or friend chat only. That is something that can still happen but we won't know until August.
Random chat can be absolutely awful and toxic so the okay solution is friend chat only.
Can I twist this a bit? Is it really you win as a team or is it a solo game that you play on a team? The difference is that there are a bunch of people out there acting as AI to the game that help or hurt your stats versus you live or die as team.
What stats are important to me? Mine or team? Most on-line games like this, unless you have guild stuff the progression is your numbers. Yeah wins do help but what if they don't matter here? What I saw of this game it looked like it was my contribution that was recorded...are they going to use the team wins to rank me? Doubt it, it really may not be a true metric of my skills, I could just be lucky and play on strong teams (and when they balance stuff shouldn't the goal be 50/50 win/loss? Does match making in COD or BF use your win / losses or you number and type of kills to put you on a random team?
So maybe the game is meant to be played as a solo player that at times you just happen to be on the team? So chatting would mean nothing overall. It is meant to be chaotic.
What stats are important to me? Mine or team? Most on-line games like this, unless you have guild stuff the progression is your numbers. Yeah wins do help but what if they don't matter here? What I saw of this game it looked like it was my contribution that was recorded...are they going to use the team wins to rank me? Doubt it, it really may not be a true metric of my skills, I could just be lucky and play on strong teams (and when they balance stuff shouldn't the goal be 50/50 win/loss? Does match making in COD or BF use your win / losses or you number and type of kills to put you on a random team?
So maybe the game is meant to be played as a solo player that at times you just happen to be on the team? So chatting would mean nothing overall. It is meant to be chaotic.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
I'm really curious how is voice chat a detriment to the game because of random people?
Anyone arguing against voice chat is laughable. There is no reason not to have it.
Anyone arguing against voice chat is laughable. There is no reason not to have it.
I'm all for voice chat... but how exactly is not including voice communication "cheap and lazy"? It's clearly a design decision, the author even includes a quote from the Splatoon's co-director in the article that says as much.
Also lol @ implying VoIP is trivial to implement. The author doesn't consider any trade-offs involved, such as increased latency, nor does he entertain that excluding voice chat may have had significant impact on visual design and level design. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that good visual/level design and voice chat are mutually exclusive.
Precedence is pretty much the author's only real argument to include voice chat, and ironically precedence seems to be the main reason it has not been included.
Also lol @ implying VoIP is trivial to implement. The author doesn't consider any trade-offs involved, such as increased latency, nor does he entertain that excluding voice chat may have had significant impact on visual design and level design. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that good visual/level design and voice chat are mutually exclusive.
Precedence is pretty much the author's only real argument to include voice chat, and ironically precedence seems to be the main reason it has not been included.
No problem buddy, I'd be happy to help.
I believe you're doing it wrong when you call discussion whiney bitching. I believe you're doing it wrong when you tell people not to discuss things on a discussion board. I believe you're doing it wrong when you imply discussing things on a discussion board is a waste of time because Nintendo might not see it.
You're swearing, breaking out the caps lock, telling people to leave. You sound mad.
For Turf Wars and Splat Zone (ranked matches), you're always split up and mixed around so chat isn't really beneficial in random match ups. And servers are global, as I was paired with many JP players during my time playing. You mostly act on your own but you all have a single goal which can unite you all pretty fast. I've been on good teams that know how to better coordinate and offer support. I've been on bad teams that don't know much about this stuff but I have offered them support and back up. It also helps that the stages are small and symmetrical so no one can really get lost, but just enough room to get out of the battle and work on taking territories no one is paying attention too. Even if you're not in the thick of battle, even if you're acting on your own, as long as you're shooting everywhere you're helping the team win.
To give one example, here's my friend Fupoo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJyZUGNgHBQ
He played roller 100% of the time during the Testfire demo and mostly played support by just covering the ground. He was helping the team even though he didn't fight as much as the others. He believes roller to be a good support weapon (and in no way OP like others say). Despite making kills in that video, those were in those off chances when he was inking the ground and gaining territory. He only fought when he felt he stood a chance. Also helps that he's a really good player.
Splat Zone, I won't ever get to try until I get the game but it has special territories that fill in a spot with your colored ink to help increase your percentage. Taking out enemies will play a larger role from what I can tell for those specific spots for major comebacks. But you still will want to ink everything else as much as possible. You will also be graded on your performance.
It feels in general with the normal random matches that doing your own thing can still be good for the team and you're encouraged to find your own play style. I found mine with the roller, and that's stealth kills.
Friend group matches and custom matches roll out in August so you won't have the issues of players mixing up and you'll be able to choose your teams. That's where much of the bigger team play stuff will come in. Some are hoping that's also when friend chat will be available as well. It's a possibility.
Moon_frogger
Member
Well it's pretty common for Nintendo games to purposefully exclude voice chat. I mean, go ahead and say they were 'too stupid and lazy to include it' but that is literally the dumbest shit I've ever heard. It's a design choice, not a budgetary concern or something they forgot or they're too stupid to program it or whatever people are insisting in this thread. Like are there actually people who think they left it out because their programmers are too incompetent, lazy or they wanted to save resources or budget? Because I'm not sure how else to interpret 'cheap and lazy.'
I remember similar outcry among the hearthstone community when they didn't allow chat with opponents. The whole 'just let people opt out' argument is dumb too. If there is voice chat, people will want to use it, in hopes of having a positive experience. In reality they won't, most of the time. This is where Nintendo is at. They are a family company. These are the kinds of decisions they make for their products, right and wrong. You don't have to like it but don't call them 'lazy' or 'incompetent'. That's just straight up factually wrong.
Everything can be a 'design' decision.
Moon_frogger
Member
No, not everything can be a design decision. What kind of argument is this? Wow these threads go to really dumb places.
Just because this 'design decision' had other than economical motives doesn't mean 'cheap and lazy' are inappropriate descriptions. It just means the adjectives don't have a causal relation.
I can make a work of art using horse shit because I like to use natural brown by 'design'. Doesn't mean it isn't stinky.
Yes it can. You can counter any criticism by 'oh but it was a design decision so it's alright'.
It's not alright. It just means it's a bad design.
Moon_frogger
Member
. Really I think most people getting angry about this are doing so because they think splatoon looks like an amazing, innovative first party Nintendo exclusive which would indicate that mayyyyybe just maybe they are pretty good at designing games. But I guess since some people are salty about a design choice they don't agree with Nintendo are somehow geniuses and lazy idiots at the same time. I guess that's possible? No, really it's not.M°°nblade;163487458 said:
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I always found it more rewarding to train them to give me a challenge, otherwise it's just a snoozefest lolWhenever I actually used voicechat, it was mostly for trashtalking...but thats what I do in offline-multiplayer too
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
You are probably anti-union, too.
Problem with the word lazy and how that opens up the conversation is more of the problem. The article could have said he was misguided and talked better in context with the dev's concerns to find solutions. Instead it started with "It's 2015" the most annoying catch all, no context saying when someone is annoyed about literally anything and everything.
Taking other methods without building on them is not really a solution either because it then just carries over the same consequences as the methods used by others. Nintendo avoids public chat, but they're still fine with private lobby and friend chat. Like I said, every Nintendo game that got mentioned in here to use against Nintendo and other people didn't even bother to mention that it was all limited to friends only. That is usually their method of handling this. No one may fully agree with that, but friend chat is what most seem to consider more important than public chat.
Taking other methods without building on them is not really a solution either because it then just carries over the same consequences as the methods used by others. Nintendo avoids public chat, but they're still fine with private lobby and friend chat. Like I said, every Nintendo game that got mentioned in here to use against Nintendo and other people didn't even bother to mention that it was all limited to friends only. That is usually their method of handling this. No one may fully agree with that, but friend chat is what most seem to consider more important than public chat.
maniac-kun
Member
They probably want to protect the children from weirdos. Still could have just implemented a party chat for your friendslist.
Splatoon will obviously appeal to a younger audience and I don't think 10 year olds need to be subjected to the verbal abuse of older players.
Some kind of party chat should be implemented when they drop that update that allows for groups of friends to team up together and play.
Some kind of party chat should be implemented when they drop that update that allows for groups of friends to team up together and play.
Moon_frogger
Member
'. Clearly much thought and effort went into how to design a competitive shooter that doesn't rely on voice communications. Probably required a lot of effort and out of the box thinking to achieve it too. Not sure how that is 'lazy'. It's actually the opposite of lazy.
MrCookiepants
Member
Isn't this like a budget title? I'm just assuming from the tacky art direction. But I wouldn't have expected too much in terms of features.
nephilimdj
Member
I honestly don't know why you brush off history, then say solution might come, thats basically the story of the wiiu
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story
Yeah they made the art tacky because it's a budget title.
(I realise you're just trolling)
He only owns nintendo console ...
Just sayin'
When nintendo will do big cross chat system : He will discover it in 2020
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
It's the tentpole title for the Wii U for the next 6 months. Make of that what you will.
Who says I'm brushing off history? If it doesn't happen, then rally your voices and send emails and complaints. And don't start with "they won't listen," cause that's just defeatism.
We don't know if voice chat will be there in August. I always said it's a possibility but not a sure fact. People are hoping it does get patched in though. I only brought up that people neglected friend chat only features in previous Nintendo games because that is their usual method.
Opt-in voice chat would have been best. I can see the concern of harassment not fitting in with the game. Opt in solves that much better than a opt out system, though admittedly is going to have less usage. Mute only works after damage has occurred.
I'm guessing nintendo doesn't quite know whether splatoon is worth investing in.
I'm guessing nintendo doesn't quite know whether splatoon is worth investing in.
I doubt it. But the higher ups of Nintendo just said "Nope, we don't want to deal with all the consequences of voice chat." Which is the easy way out.