Support NeoGAF

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I agree, it's incredibly cheap and lazy, but it's textbook Nintendo. No OS level party chat or game invites, no private lobbies and blocking voice chat in games like Mario Kart and Smash Bros, even if you're in a game solely with friends. That's if you can get all of your friends together in one game because even that is still more effort than it should be.

And yet fans will continue to defend them with a range of excuses such as 'but the children ' or 'well I wouldn't use it anyway'. As someone who plays with a regular group of people when I play a lot of Nintendo games online, it bothers me a lot and I'm tired of Nintendo dictating what features we should and shouldn't have in an online game instead of just offering a fucking choice and looking to add features that have been industry standard for a decade now.

For a company that makes such fantastic games, I cannot and will not defend how sloppy they are when it comes to OS and hardware. Irritates the fuck out of me.

 

[cyba89]

I'm trying to understand how people can think "it doesn't have voice chat because it's target to children" makes a lick of sense when it's obviously marketed to all of us, and we live in a world where a mute all and privacy settings exist.

Yes, this argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it doesn't change the fact that the target demographic of this game clearly includes children.

I never thought I would see the day where splatoon gets compared to live warfare.

Yeah, thought the same. The turns this thread made are all kinds of weird.

 

[Xun]

The Wii U needs a party system more than anything.

Maybe we'll see it in the NX.

 

[Sendou]

Calling the decision "cheap and lazy" is nothing but hyperbole and drives the discussion away from the actual reasons behind the lack of the voice chat feature. It's a design decision pure and simple. This is Nintendo we're talking about. Their family image is everything to them. Just look at how they handled Swap Note. They're all about creating a safe environment for children. People are absolutely right in that the parenting should be done by parents and there are tools for that. Yet it doesn't matter what the tools to stop the toxic behavior (of which there are plenty in every online game ever created) if it still happens. I wonder what's the percentage of parents informed about parental controls available on Wii U and 3DS. Can't be that many. Nintendo just wants to uphold the certain kind of image they have nurtured over the years. I can understand that even if it clashes with other interests.

Now when it comes to my personal opinion I won't miss voice chat. I will enjoy my Splatoon in silence except for a more tactical team multiplayer session where I imagine Skype or something like that will serve me well. For the better part of decade I have muted everyone when playing in public. People that use voice chat to strategize are so very far in between. They are far outnumbered by people misusing the feature in various ways. Yet I absolutely believe in giving people the choice of being able to voice chat if they want to. More choice is a good thing. It's just that I also understand where Nintendo is coming from. Although I don't have enough information to say whether they have a based concern.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Yes, this argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it doesn't change the fact that the target demographic of this game clearly includes children.

Children buy and/or play COD/Destiny/BF etc....lets get real.

 

[jem0208]

Yes, this argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it doesn't change the fact that the target demographic of this game clearly includes children.

I think unknown's point is that the target demographic also includes other people, hence ranks etc. Not that the target demographic doesn't include children.

They shouldn't be removing VC to satisfy what will only be a fraction of their user base. Even then kids love going on mic and shouting about how bad you are.

 

[MormaPope]

I never thought I would see the day where splatoon gets compared to live warfare.

Not only that, but constant communication during battle is more of a videogamey thing than being something that's needed for soldiers to complete directives and to keep one another alive and composed.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Yes, this argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it doesn't change the fact that the target demographic of this game clearly includes children.

Like others said, make mute the default, lock it behind parent lock if you have to.

 

[cyba89]

I think unknown's point is that the target demographic also includes other people, hence ranks etc. Not that the target demographic doesn't include children.

Ah ok. Then it's just a small misunderstanding. Alright.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Calling the decision "cheap and lazy" is nothing but hyperbole and drives the discussion away from the actual reasons behind the lack of the voice chat feature. It's a design decision pure and simple. This is Nintendo we're talking about. Their family image is everything to them. Just look at how they handled Swap Note. They're all about creating a safe environment for children. People are absolutely right in that the parenting should be done by parents and there are tools for that. Yet it doesn't matter what the tools to stop the toxic behavior (of which there are plenty in every online game ever created) if it still happens. I wonder what's the percentage of parents informed about parental controls available on Wii U and 3DS. Can't be that many. Nintendo just wants to uphold the certain kind of image they have nurtured over the years. I can understand that even if it clashes with other interests.

Now when it comes to my personal opinion I won't miss voice chat. I will enjoy my Splatoon in silence except for a more tactical team multiplayer session where I imagine Skype or something like that will serve me well. For the better part of decade I have muted everyone when playing in public. People that use voice chat to strategize are so very far in between. They are far outnumbered by people misusing the feature in various ways. Yet I absolutely believe in giving people the choice of being able to voice chat if they want to. More choice is a good thing. It's just that I also understand where Nintendo is coming from. Although I don't have enough information to say whether they have a based concern.

I'm sick to death of seeing this excuse being made. So what if its a design decision? It doesn't make it a good one. At least give gamers a choice. Children aren't the only people buying Nintendo's games and in fact, I'd go as far as to say they aren't even the largest group buying Nintendo games. These aren't the Wii days anymore.

We've had the ability to universally mute lobbies of randoms so the excuse that they're trying to protect the children just doesn't fly. Make mute the default option, or make it an OS Level feature and lock it behind parental controls. Just offer a damn choice, which, you even agree with, Sendou. It's lazy, pure and simple. And Nintendo needs to get its finger out of its arse.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

lmao@ the warzone comparison

 

[Number_6]

The lack of voice chat doesn't bother me too much. The only chatting I ever did in a game was in Team Fortress 2, and all I did was warn others of spies.

What bothers me and gives me pause, despite all the fun I had with the demo, is the apparently unfinished state the game will release in and the fact that only two maps are available every four hours.

What the fuck were they thinking? Let us use all the damn maps! Randomize it if you want, I don't care about voting. Just make them all available at once.

 

[Sendou]

I'm sick to death of seeing this excuse being made. So what if its a design decision? It doesn't make it a good one. At least give gamers a choice. Children aren't the only people buying Nintendo's games and in fact, I'd go as far as to say they aren't even the largest group buying Nintendo games. These aren't the Wii days anymore.

We've had the ability to universally mute lobbies of randoms so the excuse that they're trying to protect the children just doesn't fly. It's lazy, pure and simple. And Nintendo needs to get its finger out of its arse.

I'm sick to death of people responding to my posts without actually reading them. I didn't say I'm against giving a choice. I didn't even say it's a good design choice.

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

You've got to be kidding me. Yes, infantry and others do communicate with each other when in the field. Information is one of the best weapons...

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

 

[CommandThrower]

The lack of voice chat doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The thing that irks me is no 4 player local multiplayer. There is the battle dojo, but that's 2 player only. Splatoon isn't really a party game with that in mind. I can't take it to a friend's barebeque like I could with Mario Kart 8 or Smash Bros.

I'm still getting this thing day one, but the lack of that big local multiplayer is probably the deal breaker for my local gaming friends. Oh well.

 

[Dictator93]

Why is this controversial?

Of course it is cheap and lazy.

 

[Dryk]

Here's the thing about fun, it can come in a variety of flavors. Well coordinated teamwork isn't just for the +1 victory points, it's fun. There's huge franchises of shooters that try to sell you on being that elite squad of awesomeness that can take on all comers.

I know a 666v666v666 PC FPS isn't really comparable to Splatoon. But my best experiences with Planetside 2 by far are being part of a 10-man squad with good communication breaking a stalemate in a 100v100 skirmish mostly consisting of brain-dead people. Being part of a well-oiled team maintaining contact with one another feels amazing

 

[NotLiquid]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

I'm sorry, I don't particularly care about Nintendo's choice to remove chat

But you are reaching hard here

 

[TI82]

Not only that, but constant communication during battle is more of a videogamey thing than being something that's needed for soldiers to complete directives and to keep one another alive and composed.

lmao@ the warzone comparison

I believe the saying is "Juniors gonna junior".

 

[Solid Samus]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

reaching hard

 

[Corpekata]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

Not only do your military reasons keep getting sillier but so do your reasons for why it shouldn't be in Splatoon.

You're effectively saying it's better to not have voice chat in Splatoon because it's more realistic. That's totally absurd even divorced from the context that your explanations for how soldiers behave are nonsense.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I'm sick to death of people responding to my posts without actually reading them. I didn't say I'm against giving a choice. I didn't even say it's a good design choice.

I read your post, and I know that you concluded that people should be given a choice, but I don't understand what the point if the first paragraph of your post was. The 'design decision' nonsense just doesn't make sense to me, because there are so many ways you can have voice chat in your game and still keep children 'safe'. It's just lazy.

 

[jem0208]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

This is one of the most hilariously bad arguments I think I've ever seen.

This is a game about playing as a morphing squid trying to squirt ink everywhere and you're arguing VC shouldn't be in for realism?

 

[dk_]

How can anyone defend this? This is disastrous for a teambased online shooter. Smh!

 

[Coolwhip]

Old fashioned and ignorant.

 

[Papercuts]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

 

[Octavianus]

Honestly I just couldn't figure out how else to respond to that post you made on the other page other than to point out how strange it was with a similarly reasoned example. You're not the first one to make that post in here or on GAF and you surely wouldn't be the first to have someone respond like its foolish either. Disliking voice chat is one totally understandable thing but advocating for its complete absence, apparently solely because it doesn't suit your preference, is really kind of lame ... considering you'd have the same experience through a one time toggle like those available in many other games, without stripping others of the option.

That you've decided voice chat could not possibly add anything to the game in any form, friend-limited or otherwise, just says to me that you lack perspective, and that you are not interested in a reasonable discussion. Or any discussion, given that the contents of your posts have already been addressed multiple times when others made the in this very thread, which you probably haven't read. Hell, people have said this kind of thing before in defense of other games too, and it always goes over the same way, for good reason.

I don't see how that's strange at all.
I don't like thing so I don't want thing. Having to mute people at the start of every match would get annoying fast so I'm glad it's not there. I've hated doing that so much in other games to the point where I simply stopped playing those games because of it.
I guess the only way I'd be fine with it is if they'd add a 'mute everyone at all times' button somewhere in the options menu. I'm not completely unreasonable.

Also, stop assuming. I've read every single page of this thread.

Oh and thanks for giving me something to chuckle about Neogaf. I was having a bad day so it's been fun seeing Splatoon being compared to an actual warzone.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I read your post, and I know that you concluded that people should be given a choice, but I don't understand what the point if the first paragraph of your post was. The 'design decision' nonsense just doesn't make sense to me, because there are so many ways you can have voice chat in your game and still keep children 'safe'. It's just lazy.

This is Nintendo, their decisions never make sense.

 

[Doukou]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

Just admit the real-life comparison was silly and move on from it, people are wrong all the time. I don't think it will work out well if you keep with it.

 

[old manatee]

Voice Chat in a multiplayer game has been a standard feature since before 9/11.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Hoping for a patch for those who want chat. I don't know but I'm quite confident they'll do something regarding this.

 

[Sendou]

I read your post, and I know that you concluded that people should be given a choice, but I don't understand what the point if the first paragraph of your post was. The 'design decision' nonsense just doesn't make sense to me, because there are so many ways you can have voice chat in your game and still keep children 'safe'. It's just lazy.

It's in line with their past choices like the Swap Note example I gave. Yeah there's many ways from keeping children safe but it doesn't matter if people fail to use them and it gives Nintendo bad publicity. "Nintendo" itself is still their strongest brand. The point of the first paragraph in that post was trying to shed some light on why they didn't include voice chat. Because if someone seriously thinks it's because they are cheap and that's it then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[NotLiquid]

I read your post, and I know that you concluded that people should be given a choice, but I don't understand what the point if the first paragraph of your post was. The 'design decision' nonsense just doesn't make sense to me, because there are so many ways you can have voice chat in your game and still keep children 'safe'. It's just lazy.

It's not lazy.

The directors have made it clear multiple times why they have chosen not to go with a voice chat. Hell, a large portion of the game is designed in a way that encourages individual proactivity. The word you're looking for is misguided. This was a conscious ommission.

I'm not even sure why this topic uses that line as a title when its not even the title of the article. "Lazy" has become too big of a catch-all loaded term to criticize things.

 

[TrueBlue]

It doesn't bother me personally, but more options are never a bad thing - particularly when one considers how standardized voice chat has become in the last decade or so.

 

[MouldyK]

How can anyone defend this? This is disastrous for a teambased online shooter. Smh!

You know what's even more disastrous? Playing Halo, CoD and other games where only 10% of the time people have Voice Chat...and even then only 10% of them actually use it to say something constructive.

And these game require more co-ordination and teamwork over 10 minutes than a 3-minute game.


What's the point in being given a headset with the console if no-one uses the bloody thing?

I bet only 5% of people moaning about voicechat would actually use it to say something useful.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Cheap and Lazy may be the incorrect term here but it's another symptom of Nintendos problematic design philosophy.

It's been evident since the Wii that Nintendo are not interested in appealing to anyone but a unique demographic that doesn't really exist in sustainable numbers. The choices they make like

SD Wii
Friend Codes
Still no true online service
Underpowered consoles
Gimmicky Hardware

It all seems like their entirely out of touch with the current gaming environment.

No reasonable argument exists for no voice chat system wide or in the game.

An opt in function for voice chat would be fine, if you don't opt in you don't hear anything and play the game exactly like it is now. But instead they ignore completely the fact that any sizeable online population is filled with people who communicate to victory.

No voice chat removes the ability to communicate and by extension reduces the point of the game even being team based.

The Nintendo Defense Force is really reaching to prove something with splatoon. If it's not people defending an objectively bad decision then it's people like This Guy trying to shame people who said the game would bomb based on the fact it's the best selling Wii U game on amazon.

Best selling game in a drought on the lowest selling nintendo console isn't anything to write home about.

 

[TI82]

You know what's even more disastrous? Playing Halo, CoD and other games where only 10% of the time people have Voice Chat...and even then only 10% of them actually use it to say something constructive.

And guess what, that 1% is still better than 0% happening in splatoon.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Didn't they explain why they didn't want voice chat in the game?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

You said it: "infantry". Soldiers sure talk in open war fields since enemy can't hear them. But think about a warzone similiar to an arena. If someone hears the soldier, he's dead for sure.
Also, military isn't the only setting a shooter can have. Think about cowboys or uniques like Splatoon.
That's why voice chat is good for war simulators and bad for arena shooters

stahp, just stahp

You're digging yourself an increasingly silly-looking hole.

 

[MouldyK]

And guess what, that 1% is still better than 0% happening in splatoon.

Yes, the 10% of the time of someone going "Hey! Their taking the Flag down the East Path" outweighs the 90% of the "Fucking Hacker! Stop spamming nades, you worthless gobshite!".


Then again, this was in 2008-2010. Maybe people have evolved.

 

[deltatheta]

I'm trying to understand how people can think "it doesn't have voice chat because it's targeted to children" makes a lick of sense when it's obviously marketed to all of us, and we live in a world where a mute all and privacy settings exist.

I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding when I've addressed both of those points in previous posts, unless you're talking about someone else.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Didn't they explain why they didn't want voice chat in the game?

Yes, and it was a bad reason. Hence, thread.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Yes, the 10% of the time of someone going "Hey! There's taking the Flag down the East Path" outweighs the 90% of the where "Fucking Hacker! Stop spamming nades, you worthless gobshite!".


Then again, this was in 2008-2010. Maybe people have evolved.

They haven't.

 

[JetSetRadio]

stahp, just stahp

You're digging yourself an increasingly silly-looking hole.

And he can't communicate with fellow soldiers to help him out!

 

[Solid Samus]

I don't see how that's strange at all.
I don't like thing so I don't want thing. Having to mute people at the start of every match would get annoying fast so I'm glad it's not there. I've hated doing that so much in other games to the point where I simply stopped playing those games because of it.
I guess the only way I'd be fine with it is if they'd add a 'mute everyone at all times' button somewhere in the options menu. I'm not completely unreasonable.

Also, stop assuming. I've read every single page of this thread.

I assumed as much because l felt your points had already been addressed by posts others had made here. I understand not feeling voice chat as a universal option but I can't remember the last time I played a game with voice chat that didn't give the option to disable all voice chat, or at the very least a universal volume slider for incoming voice chat which could be used 1 time in the same manner. Whereas there is no in-game alternative on the Wii U for those who want to use voice chat in its absence. While a total lack of voice might suit you particularly, don't you think it'd be preferable to include an option, oft-repeated in this thread, which would suit almost everyone? That being friend chat, of course - being able to voice chat with friends in-game down the line, at the very least, a basic functionality for which there are very good reasons to have been included in damn near every OS and video game claiming even a semblance of social interactivity and connectivity over the last decade.

I'll concede that random voice chat is something totally unimportant to me in the context of this particular game (although I couldn't live without it where PC shooters with strong communities are concerned... ARMA 3 would be an empty shell without voice chat ), but being able to chat/banter/team with the friends you play with at the very least? There's no reason for that not to be an ingame feature for a team-based game when the OS doesn't support it itself, and not quite solely for teamwork and coordination purposes.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Didn't they explain why they didn't want voice chat in the game?

Yup but regardless of what a mouth piece says the decision to not include an opt in system is short sighted its a genre standard feature for a reason but apparently nintendo know better that ever other dev.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Yes, the 10% of the time of someone going "Hey! Their taking the Flag down the East Path" outweighs the 90% of the "Fucking Hacker! Stop spamming nades, you worthless gobshite!".


Then again, this was in 2008-2010. Maybe people have evolved.

No, they haven't.

 

[TI82]

Yes, the 10% of the time of someone going "Hey! Their taking the Flag down the East Path" outweighs the 90% of the where "Fucking Hacker! Stop spamming nades, you worthless gobshite!".


Then again, this was in 2008-2010. Maybe people have evolved.

I'm saying that the 1% (your numbers) Is literally better than the 0% happening within splatoon. That's really not arguable.

But hey, if you don't like chatting then... Mute it? Crazy I know.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yes, the 10% of the time of someone going "Hey! Their taking the Flag down the East Path" outweighs the 90% of the "Fucking Hacker! Stop spamming nades, you worthless gobshite!".


Then again, this was in 2008-2010. Maybe people have evolved.

So then do what any normal person does and mute the ones bad mouthing and listen to the ones who want to co operate -____-

 

[The M.O.B]

If the WiiU had party chat built into the OS this would be a non-issue.

90% of the people using voice chat in your typical online game are just talking crap and not using it for it's intended use.

As someone who plays enough online games (Mostly Dota 2), I have had more than enough of hearing people complain about their team or generally being a punk on the microphone.


Good riddance


EDIT: If the solution is to mute, then that shows a much bigger problem for a game that only has teams of 4. Muting 2 people means you have a single person to possibly talk to.