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[Einbroch]

This decision will limit the competitiveness of the online scene. If they didn't want voice chat, they needed a ping system to direct teammates or respond to direction.

Tap and hold a half second on the gamepad, a radial menu pops up. Drag finger to "retreat", "go here", "be careful", or "hold position".

That would be enough. As it stands, it's never going to be truly competitive as a team game.

 

[Vena]

If they didn't want voice chat, they needed a ping system to direct teammates or respond to direction.

This exists.

 

[Amir0x]

(Animal Crossing, I'm looking at you. Fuck sitting in an island for hours to get a darker skin shade).

Oh man I hate Animal Crossing so much after my experience with the GCN version that I never knew this was a thing. That is hilarious.

 

[Ridley327]

This decision will limit the competitiveness of the online scene. If they didn't want voice chat, they needed a ping system to direct teammates or respond to direction.

Tap and hold a half second on the gamepad, a radial menu pops up. Drag finger to "retreat", "go here", "be careful", or "hold position".

That would be enough. As it stands, it's never going to be truly competitive as a team game.

I'm pretty sure the "C'Mon!" d-pad emote shows up for other teammates on their screens, so there is that.

 

[Einbroch]

This exists.

Does it? I didn't see it last night. I saw a cheer and something else, but nothing in depth. I was only watching a neighbor play though.

 

[protomouse]

Voice chat
[ ] on [ x ] off

Oh hey look I fixed it

But nah let's just hamper online play for everyone else because I personally am not a fan

This problem exists at both ends of the spectrum. A lot of devs don't include an option to turn voice chat off. On PS3, I had to buy a USB sound card, configure it as my voice chat device, and simply leave it unplugged. On PS4, I cut off a 3.5mm plug from a pair of broken headphones and plugged that into the controller. It's of course ridiculous that there aren't system-wide settings for this.

 

[Vena]

Does it? I didn't see it last night. I saw a cheer and something else, but nothing in depth. I was only watching a neighbor play though.

The demo had canned "commands" slotted on the d-pad that ping your character for your team with a message. We don't know the extent of its customization, though. Its there as a communication tool in lieu of voice commands.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Again , no.
Nobody is saying that the game is bad. The argument is that the game could be better with voice chat.

Nuh-huh. You can't enjoy a game and be critical of its flaws. If you criticize one flaw, you're saying the entire game is shit. Period. QED

Because voice chat helps teamwork.

Who needs that? My teammates just need to be as good as I am and make every single same observation about the progress of the match that I am. Otherwise they're scrubs and I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. Also I don't need their insight or observation or suggestions because I'm that gud. So they can all STFU.

Team deathmatch games, how do they work?

Spoiler

I'm obviously not serious

 

[R_thanatos]

You vastly over estimate your ability to get random people to do what you want by complaining at them.

You seems to under estimate people here , and human beings as a whole when they want to win something.

Because countless people get together to play team based games daily on every console& PC , i fail to see where somehow splatoon should be the exception.

 

[The Boat]

Does it? I didn't see it last night. I saw a cheer and something else, but nothing in depth. I was only watching a neighbor play though.

It seemed to change according to situation, personally I only noticed "to me" or something of the sort and "yeah!". To me is pretty useful.

 

[Iorv3th]

You vastly over estimate your ability to get random people to do what you want by complaining at them.

Who said you have to complain to anyone? Have you not had one good voice chat experience in your life? I always communicate with my teams online and it isn't ever complaining or negative.

 

[Amir0x]

Who said you have to complain to anyone? Have you not had one good voice chat experience in your life? I always communicate with my teams online and it isn't ever complaining or negative.

For Overside, merely suggesting to your teammates that they coordinate in some way around some objective is 'complaining to get your way.'

This is how Overside sees the world.

He was always picked last in Dodgeball you see.

 

[mrlion]

This decision will limit the competitiveness of the online scene. If they didn't want voice chat, they needed a ping system to direct teammates or respond to direction.

Tap and hold a half second on the gamepad, a radial menu pops up. Drag finger to "retreat", "go here", "be careful", or "hold position".

That would be enough. As it stands, it's never going to be truly competitive as a team game.

The competitiveness will take place on channels like Skype, Mumble, or Teamspeak..

 

[Morrigan Stark]

He was always picked last in Dodgeball you see.

LOL.
As someone who was generally picked last in dodgeball (I was a tiny girl! but I was actually decent, surprisingly XD was better at capture the flag though), this really cracked me up.

 

[ShinMaruku]

The one amusing thing I get from that is on one side you have Nintendo who only see the dark side of having voice chat and then you have others who see the positive. However life is complicated and this discussion is amusing.

If this sells to what Nintendo expects, then it will be a success, I think the game design is such that loss of game chat would not be too much of a loss but I do see where some would say something is lost.

As to having the option, that depends on how you think people actually use choice and that assumes that human beings by and large are rational

Spoiler

They ain't.

meanwhile Nintendo obviously is of the view that they know best and fuck choice.

Now I want to know where they came to this view of just looking at the darker side of things, none of those developers seem to be the people who spend too much time in the darker parts of society them being wealthy in a stable and safe country....

Oh well, I look forward to the results of this endeavor of theirs.

 

[Steel]

Who said you have to complain to anyone? Have you not had one good voice chat experience in your life? I always communicate with my teams online and it isn't ever complaining or negative.

I'm seriously wondering how people can not ever have positive voice chat with others coordinating things and talking about the advantages of different weapons. They must not have any friends whatsoever.

The competitiveness will take place on channels like Skype, Mumble, or Teamspeak..

Yeah............ Personally when I pick it up I'll be using PS4 party chat since it'll be hooked up to the same T.V., but it's really stupid you have to do that just to chat with your friends.

 

[Natureboy99]

I agree. I'm dissapointed in Nintendo for not manning up. The game is going to get burned a bit in reviews because of it.

That said, every WiiU owner needs to buy this game. Its a core new IP from Nintendo. In the face of strong Amiibo sales, Nintendo needs to be told 'make new core IP' video games. If this bombs, you all know how Nintendo leadership thinks....

 

[Einbroch]

The competitiveness will take place on channels like Skype, Mumble, or Teamspeak..

How are people going to queue up solo/duo/triple and tell the person not in your party that he/she/they need to get on Skype and call you/your group?

 

[Amir0x]

LOL.
As someone who was generally picked last in dodgeball (I was a tiny girl! but I was actually decent, surprisingly XD was better at capture the flag though), this really cracked me up.

But were your teammates all "Hey Morrigan you got the ball, try to aim at that kid over there, he's not paying attention" and you were all "NO SCREW YOU STOP COMPLAINING AT ME"?

 

[Tuck]

You can like a game, but criticize its features.

Ding ding ding.

There is no valid reason for the game not to have voice chat. Especially not this "The game is too fast paced & therefore does not need it" bullshit people are spewing.

It is a flaw. The game was still fun despite the flaw. But the flaw remains.

 

[Neverfade]

That said, every WiiU owner needs to buy this game. Its a core new IP from Nintendo. In the face of strong Amiibo sales, Nintendo needs to be told 'make new core IP' video games. If this bombs, you all know how Nintendo leadership thinks....

They'll get my money when there's voice chat, I can swap weapons between deaths, I can use a Pro controller, and there's a healthy selection and rotation of maps. If that ends up being never, then so be it.

 

[R_thanatos]

But were your teammates all "Hey Morrigan you got the ball, try to aim at that kid over there, he's not paying attention" and you were all "NO SCREW YOU STOP COMPLAINING AT ME"?

" Why are you telling me to aim at this guy , since i've got the map already in my head and i know the number of opponents left , i don't need your advice !!"

j/k

but hey , teamwork ..who does need that ?

 

[Seth Enosh]

How are people going to queue up solo/duo/triple and tell the person not in your party that he/she/they need to get on Skype and call you/your group?

As far as we know, that's not possible? The direct shows prearranged teams of 4 players in the August update. You might need 4 players to enter that matchmaking queue, so you wouldn't have any randoms in your team anyway.

EDIT: Exact wording from the direct at 27:40: "The first allows 4 friends to team up and search online for another team to battle against." And the accompanying slide shows "Your Friends" v. "Their Friends". No indication that you can matchmake to get additional players into your team if you have only 2 or 1 friend to play with.

 

[Vena]

They'll get my money when there's voice chat, I can swap weapons between deaths, I can use a Pro controller, and there's a healthy selection and rotation of maps. If that ends up being never, then so be it.

I mean, at some point, it really feels like your expecting a different game.

 

[Revolutionary]

This exists.

There are only two. "C'mon" and "Booyah". When there are two or more teammates painting the same area I'm in (which happened several times yesterday), which one clearly conveys "get out of here, I have this area covered"?

 

[Diffense]

I mean, at some point, it really feels like your expecting a different game.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with people not liking Splatoon. I don't get why they are insisting that "NINTENDO MUST MAKE GAME I WANT".
If it's not your thing (like for example it doesn't have an "essential" feature like voice chat) pass on it. There are plenty of games with that option.
The 50 pages of rage seems extreme.

 

[Reebot]

There are only two. "C'mon" and "Booyah". When there are two or more teammates painting the same area I'm in (which happened several times yesterday), which one clearly conveys "get out of here, I have this area covered"?

Two "Booyah's" and a "C'mon" is standard for that situation. Its a complex code but you'll get the hang of it.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Well yes, it is secondary, but, being secondary, isnt the same as not mattering, its still pretty important, it has a pretty large impact. From reducing reinforcements to taking the player out of play longer after each death. Splatoon is only a flat 3 seconds.

For starters, in battlefield types you cant teleport instantly to any team member, you have to respawn from the nearest uncontested point and make your way back to the contested point, again, these are specific points on the map, splatoon is anywhere on the map... Honestly im surprised more people havent started bringing up the king of the hill mode in splatoon, as its a lot easier to sink their teeth into this mode with this subject.

You can.

In splatoon you respawn practically instantly, 3 seconds is nothing. You can also start scoring again instantly, you dont have to travel back to the contested point to try and take it, you can spray anywhere thats not coated in your ink, and be helping the team to win.

Those 3 seconds may mean, your teanmates are in inferiority numbers and they might lose a battle, which means they end losing a zone or their domination of a articular place

These things do not remotely exist in splatoon, its not that kind of game.



You vastly over estimate your ability to get random people to do what you want by complaining at them.

It was an example, the fact is that you need to coordinate between your teammates to better reach your objective, a team working as one is always way more effective. It happens is every team based competitive game that involves some kind of strategy.

Also suggesting a course of action is not complaining at your team, what kind of jump of logic is that?

 

[Raide]

Two "Booyah's" and a "C'mon" is standard for that situation. Its a complex code but you'll get the hang of it.

Like Morse Code but with Booyah's" and a "C'mon".

 

[Vena]

There are only two. "C'mon" and "Booyah". When there are two or more teammates painting the same area I'm in (which happened several times yesterday), which one clearly conveys "get out of here, I have this area covered"?

There are also only two maps. The game is only playable for three hours every Saturday. And Rollers are OP.

 

[Neverfade]

Yeah, I'm totally fine with people not liking Splatoon. I don't get why they are insisting that "NINTENDO MUST MAKE GAME I WANT". If it's not your thing (like for example it doesn't have an "essential" feature like voice chat) pass on it. There are plenty of games with that option.

Did....did you not read what I wrote? I DID say I was going to pass on it...

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I mean, at some point, it really feels like your expecting a different game.

Except for maybe wanting to play with the pro controller, none of those things would fundamentally change the game play. It's all menu options and convenience issues. Splatoon would still be Splatoon if you could switch load outs and had voice chat.

That's like saying that Smash Bros wouldn't be Smash Bros if Nintendo had let us have voice chat during the fighting and gave us the option to customize the rooms more then For Glory or For Fun.

 

[Revolutionary]

Two "Booyah's" and a "C'mon" is standard for that situation. Its a complex code but you'll get the hang of it.

Ah, of course. I must have missed the memo. lol

There are also only two maps. The game is only playable for three hours every Saturday. And Rollers are OP.

You seriously think Nintendo is going to patch in new ping commands within two weeks? We'll be lucky to see them in the August update.

 

[Vena]

Except for maybe wanting to play with the pro controller, none of those things would fundamentally change the game play. It's all menu options and convenience issues. Splatoon would still be Splatoon if you could switch load outs and had voice chat.

Controller and on-death load out swaps are design decisions on a game to game basis. Voice chat and maps are a more general statement.

That's like saying that Smash Bros wouldn't be Smash Bros if Nintendo had let us have voice chat and gave us the option to customize the rooms more then For Glory or For Fun.

Smash has voice chat.

And you can customize rooms...

You seriously think Nintendo is going to patch in new ping commands within two weeks? We'll be lucky to see them in the August update.

No? My point, which you missed, is that you've drawn a preconceived notion based on the demo. The game may well launch with two commands, or it may well launch with four customizable blurbs. There was no way to access the hub and customization in the demo, so it was physically impossible to confirm this.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Except for maybe wanting to play with the pro controller, none of those things would fundamentally change the game play. It's all menu options and convenience issues. Splatoon would still be Splatoon if you could switch load outs and had voice chat.

That's like saying that Smash Bros wouldn't be Smash Bros if Nintendo had let us have voice chat during the fighting and gave us the option to customize the rooms more then For Glory or For Fun.

Switching weapons during the match is a fundamental change to the gameplay (whether for good or bad, I don't know). It means you no longer know what weapons the enemy team has - right now you can see right at the start of the match the 4 weapons the enemy team has brought to the battle and you know exactly what to expect.

 

[spindashing]

I don't get why they are insisting that "NINTENDO MUST MAKE GAME I WANT".

People...are allowed to feel this way, you know. If Nintendo aren't making a game that they don't like, most often they won't buy. It's one of the many reasons why Wii U sales are pretty low.

Isn't the point of making a game...to get people to play said game?

 

[stan423321]

Ding ding ding.

There is no valid reason for the game not to have voice chat. Especially not this "The game is too fast paced & therefore does not need it" bullshit people are spewing.

It is a flaw. The game was still fun despite the flaw. But the flaw remains.

Okay, look. I have following three examples:

• Bridge (regular card game)
• Hanabi (special card game)
• Journey (PS3(/4?) game)

These were all designed specifically without voice chat or its RL equivalent, and were succesful to some degree. Yet for Splatoon, it's apparently a definitive flaw without a possible valid reason.

I understand you may not be familiar with examples I presented, but I'd like you to explain to me why is lack of direct communication so bad in Splatoon while these games have proved it can be liked.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Controller and on-death load out swaps are design decisions on a game to game basis. Voice chat and maps are a more general statement.



Smash has voice chat.

And you can customize rooms...

Not nearly to the extent that you can customize the game offline if I remember right. I thought you couldn't say, play with only Golden Hammers and Bombs. And isn't it only time based matches? I thought the voice chat in Smash was only for the lobby after the actual match?

You're right about the load out thing, I thought he meant in between games without leaving the room. Because unless it was just a demo thing, you have to completely leave whatever room you were in, change your loadout, and then go search for more games. But like I said, that very well could just have been a demo thing.

 

[test_account]

I mean, at some point, it really feels like your expecting a different game.

Swapping weapons between deaths and using a pro controller is almost guaranteed to be in the game at some point, in my opinion.

 

[Seth Enosh]

No? My point, which you missed, is that you've drawn a preconceived notion based on the demo. The game may well launch with two commands, or it may well launch with four customizable blurbs. There was no way to access the hub and customization in the demo, so it was physically impossible to confirm this.

Wii Sports Online had a similar D-Pad communication system and all 4 options were customizable. I wouldn't be surprised if Splatoon final code is similar, but it could also just have the two options from the demo.

Review copies of the final game are being shipped to reviewers this weekend, right? So we'll see footage later this week and know what to expect.

 

[spindashing]

Okay, look. I have following three examples:

• Bridge (regular card game)
• Hanabi (special card game)
• Journey (PS3(/4?) game)

These were all designed specifically without voice chat or its RL equivalent, and were succesful to some degree. Yet for Splatoon, it's apparently a definitive flaw without a possible valid reason.

I understand you may not be familiar with examples I presented, but I'd like you to explain to me why is lack of direct communication so bad in Splatoon while these games have proved it can be liked.

None of those games are team based shooters.

 

[Zombie James]

Okay, look. I have following three examples:

• Bridge (regular card game)
• Hanabi (special card game)
• Journey (PS3(/4?) game)

These were all designed specifically without voice chat or its RL equivalent, and were succesful to some degree. Yet for Splatoon, it's apparently a definitive flaw without a possible valid reason.

I understand you may not be familiar with examples I presented, but I'd like you to explain to me why is lack of direct communication so bad in Splatoon while these games have proved it can be liked.

Journey isn't a competitive team-based game.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I mean, at some point, it really feels like your expecting a different game.

Are you still in here defending Nintendo to the death? These are basic features that should be in the game, sorry that people who don't hold an irrational attachment to Nintendo expect them to do more than the bare minimum.

 

[jroc74]

I think it is blatantly cheaper and easier to outright disable voice chat than to implement it with a variety of safeties and options, yes.

So the IGN article is spot on.

Yea...reading that...I didnt agree with IGN using cheap n lazy before...now I do....

I have no idea from how you came to this conclusion.

People can appreciate the Design in Splatoon, and think and praise it as a rather unique combat mechanic, but STILL think that the lack of an otherwise common feature in pretty much online team console game is a big flaw.

Some of us PS4 owners in a couple of threads called out Sony for:
Little ass online storage for saves vs XBO.
Why saves are so much damn bigger on PS4 than XBO.
The lack of external hard drive use on PS4 vs XBO to run games off of.

I ike the PS4 alot..many do..but that doesnt excuse what some of us think are bad decisions by Sony.

Most of the time is secondary and basically boils down to: to die less in Battlefield you have to coordinate better. Also by that logic, dying in Splatoon is also important.

The problem here is that you believe that voice chat is just a way to gather info, and that's wrong, is a way too coordinate and dynamically change you team strategy that better suites the actual situation of the match. You don't shout "I need a transport!" in Battlefield you say "We should flank A and B, because for there on, we can easily get C and D".

You say you can get all the info from the gamepad, but the problem here is how each team member interprets that info and what course of action is the best regarding that info, if every member reaches a different conclusion, you don't have a well coordinated team. And that's where voice chat makes a difference.

Give this man a hand.

I know there were others that made good points for voice chat...this is just the most recent...

 

[Benzychenz]

This decision will limit the competitiveness of the online scene. If they didn't want voice chat, they needed a ping system to direct teammates or respond to direction.

Tap and hold a half second on the gamepad, a radial menu pops up. Drag finger to "retreat", "go here", "be careful", or "hold position".

That would be enough. As it stands, it's never going to be truly competitive as a team game.

So the lack of voice chat will make it less likely to come up against super competitive players?

Sounds good to me.

 

[Vena]

Not nearly to the extent that you can customize the game offline if I remember right. I thought you couldn't say, play with only Golden Hammers and Bombs. And isn't it only time based matches? I thought the voice chat in Smash was only for the lobby after the actual match?

You can customize online play to your hearts content in private rooms. For Glory and For Fun are fixed rule sets for obvious reasons.

You're right about the load out thing, I thought he meant in between games without leaving the room. Because unless it was just a demo thing, you have to completely leave whatever room you were in, change your loadout, and then go search for more games. But like I said, that very well could just have been a demo thing.

This I can agree with as a good addition.

Swapping weapons between death and using a pro controller is almost guaranteed to be in the game at some point, in my opinion.

The game already have pro-controller support in the Dojo. The multiplayer will never have it as it just wouldn't work with how much information is on the pad. Loadout swapping isn't something I'd expect either, you're not supposed to be able to swap on the fly, otherwise Turf Wars would devolve to all Rollers in the last 30 seconds. Perhaps in some other mode.

Are you still in here defending Nintendo to the death? These are basic features that should be in the game, sorry that people who don't hold an irrational attachment to Nintendo expect them to do more than the bare minimum.

The hell are you talking about? I haven't once defended them in this on the actual topic at hand.

 

[Overside]

Who said you have to complain to anyone? Have you not had one good voice chat experience in your life? I always communicate with my teams online and it isn't ever complaining or negative.

With randoms? Not once.

Sure I enjoy team chat with my own, but holy shit it is not the golden terd of salvation dangling from Jesus's gyrating butt cheeks it is being made out to be here.

 

[Diffense]

Did....did you not read what I wrote? I DID say I was going to pass on it...

I wasn't picking on you specifically. I can understand being uninterested but I don't get the rage.

I mean, if voice chat is such a deal breaker that it overshadows anything unique that Splatoon may offer then ANY game with voice chat will be better for you. Heck, you may be better off picking up a phone...lol

 

[Terrell]

The crux of the argument, and the part that no one can seem to move past, is that there are people who consider it fundamental to the experience and those that don't.

I personally see voice chat as a largely supplemental thing and something that would just rob some of my connection that I'd rather use for the game I'm playing, but I can understand that there are those who want it.

And no one would argue with your desire to have it if you didn't drape it in all this other bullshit.

"It's a standard feature/it's 2015/etc" ignores all the games that exist without it, Nintendo excluded. The majority of iOS/Android co-op games have zero voice chat options. ZERO. Even the largest among them, Clash of Clans, requires 3rd-party chat options. So unless you're going to claim that they aren't games like so many people on GAF believe to be true but are too afraid to say so, it's hardly a standard feature. It's a NICE feature, but "standard" is stretching the boundaries of reason.

"But there will be no community now" is a strange argument. Does Mario Kart 8 not have an online community? It still seems to have quite a number of people playing it online, so you'll forgive me if I'm confused by how one feature omission means there can't be an online community when there are plenty of examples that show that to be untrue.

"Nintendo is behind the times/Nintendo gonna Nintendo/etc." OK, so what do you expect to do about it? I've seen this discussion repeated ad infinitum and it leads me to believe you'd all rather bitch about it on GAF and make every thread in every game that doesn't include it into some sort of user referendum. But GAF isn't Nintendo, what do you expect people here to do about it? Of course there's going to be people who don't give a shit about its omission, rationalize it away or discuss the methodology behind its exclusion, because that's all GAF is capable of doing and some people just don't care. Making it a fanboy issue if someone disagrees with you gets NOTHING done. Period.
If you want it to change and there's seemingly enough of you who want it to, take it up with the people who actually can do something to change it. Use this thread or any other of the many that preceded it to rally support and make it known to the company that made this decision that you don't find it acceptable. The fact that hasn't happened yet tells me that it's not as important as it's being made out to be, especially when we're looking at a Nintendo that has become more open to feedback from players than ever. Please prove me wrong if I'm mistaken by taking an actual action, because passive-agressive moaning about it gets really tiresome. I see it in other threads, as well, and it's equally meaningless there.

tl;dr version:

Be honest about what you're discussing. Instead of making it about some obvious failure, just say you're disappointed; more people are likely to find your opinion agreeable. The indignation people are spouting doesn't help their point.
And for god sake, if it's a big deal, fucking DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Do something to improve the situation with the games you enjoy instead of the stock "vote with your dollars" bullshit answer or being an incessant whiny child about it.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

You can customize online play to your hearts content in private rooms. For Glory and For Fun are fixed rule sets for obvious reasons.



This I can agree with as a good addition.



The game already have pro-controller support in the Dojo. The multiplayer will never have it as it just wouldn't work with how much information is on the pad. Loadout swapping isn't something I'd expect either, you're not supposed to be able to swap on the fly, otherwise Turf Wars would devolve to all Rollers in the last 30 seconds. Perhaps in some other mode.

Ah, that's my mistake. I agree, it makes sense for For Glory and For Fun to have preset rules.