Support NeoGAF

[SantaC]

say what you will, but the new "mature" zelda is spawning shitloads of interest even outside the nintendo fans. I know atleast 7-8 friends that is buying a cube for that game.

I sometimes read the TXB forums, and even the xbots have interest for the new zelda.

As someone said, it's what you do with the franchise that creates an interest.

 

[DECK'ARD]

So he's saying that the only people who will play Mario and Zelda games are the people who've played them in the past? Riiiiiiight ...

Unfortunately GC's problems started with the unveiling of the console itself. They misjudged the market, and underestimated the effect Microsoft would have in pushing the videogames market even further into the older demographic. GC had the games, it just didn't have the image or the right position in the market. If it had done then all Nintendo's franchises, whether new or not, would have found a wider audience and made more of an impact.

The main thing Nintendo have to address with Revolution is that the videogames market has grown up. You don't have to alienate one section of the market in order to appeal to the other. You can do both. *That* is how they gain marketshare.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I think IGN posted this hoping they can make a difference. Here's what I think the problem is. GameCube started off bad because of it's image, but the whole point behind GameCube was supoosed to be to fix what was wrong witn N64. XBox also started off bad, but has been gaining marketshare because they are pleasing their customers. Nintendo has done the exact opposite and are losing more casual gamers and even hardcore fans. They have a lot of cool ideas, but a lot of them would have been better served in new franchises. Zelda and Donkey Kong are perfect examples.

Zelda should not have been cel-shaded. It only reinforced peoples perception that Nintendo is for kids. The cel-shaded look would have been much better for bringing back Kid Icarus. Nintendo fans are begging for this game, and Nintendo's reason for making Zelda cel-shaded was because Link was a boy. Hence the word Kid Icarus. It just fits.

Second. Look at Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (and Super Mario Sunshine for that matter). Neither game even comes close to resembling their predecessor. They put them in a completely new environment and even a brand new style of gameplay. It was the perfect opportunity to start a new franchise.

Then you have issues like no fps or racing games on GameCube. Two genres that defined N64, but Nintendo has done nothing about it. Plus you have Nintendo selling Rare because they weren't putting out games fast enough. F- that. If Rare were still with Nintendo, I gaurantee you we would have seen alot more games out of them. They should not have sold them. They pushed away the casual consumer and now they're doing to their hardcore fans. They'll come out with their next console, but that will be their last one. The fans are trying to warn them, but they're not listening.

 

[radioheadrule83]

but the whole point behind GameCube was supoosed to be to fix what was wrong witn N64.

Zelda should not have been cel-shaded. It only reinforced peoples perception that Nintendo is for kids.

You can't possibly fathom how much I disagree with your insinuations here. Firstly, Gamecube HAS fixed many things wrong with Nintendo 64.

* Shit third party support - situation improved.
* Not enough games from Nintendo - situation improved,
* Games not released regularly enough - situation improved.
* Archaic cartridge format - eradicated.
* Piracy - prevented.

I feel that the problem with Gamecube is that it doesn't go as far as Xbox and PS2 do. It would have done a lot better if Xbox wasn't around when you think about it. Microsoft threw over 2 billion dollars at getting into this industry, and needless to say it's worked. I don't think Nintendo of two years ago would have expected that MS would have had a loss leading Xbox Live investment with an impressive userbase, and a significant amount of western exclusives. Otherwise they would have countered much better.

As for Wind Waker. It's sold as good as every other Zelda game barre Ocarina of Time. Including Majora's Mask. And it's done so on a userbase deficient console (relatively deficient compared to N64). And of course Nintendo is for kids too. It's for everyone. What the fuck is wrong with that? Who cares? There's been a significant maturity boost in other areas: they made good moves with the two namco RPGs, F Zero, Link in Soul Calibur, Resident Evil exclusivity and Metal Gear Solid. I honestly think the whole 'kiddie' perception is wrongly lampooned as Nintendo's chief problem. The reason Nintendo is a couple of million down in North America, and third place in the west in general is because (in my opinion of course):

* they have the worst third party support
* you can get a console with better graphics and better western third party support for a small amount more, or get the most popular alternative with best third party support.
* it doesn't play DVDs or go online with many games
* you can't have a music library on it

Quite frankly, Nintendo aren't selling 30 million systems and 10 million units of each game because they don't deserve to. They do enough to sell the console, and I heartily recommend that everyone who likes good games, should certainly own a Gamecube... but we talk perception, we use the word "kiddy"... is that really the problem? As ever - I think it's really about the games. While Nintendo DO have great first party games, and some excellent second and third party exclusives, they don't market anywhere near enough for cube, they don't have the best versions of Splinter Cell, Burnout, EA sports titles etc, and they don't have Halo 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Pro Evolution Soccer, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, nor boastable graphics in every game, nor the promise of online gaming.

Basically: they deserve to sell Gamecubes, but I don't think for a second they deserve to be number one. Not yet. Making Zelda "mature" doesn't change a fucking thing.



See? I don't think Nintendo do everything right either. But that doesn't mean I want IGN cube to write about it themselves or through their partners every week. There are positive things to write about Gamecube, plenty to be excited about. The focus is just totally fucked up if you ask me. There's no armchair analyst diatribe on the Xbox and PS2 channels.

 

[JasoNsider]

I think IGN posted this hoping they can make a difference.

This was not written by IGN Cube

I'm going to keep writing this until people actually start reading.

 

[radioheadrule83]

This was not written by IGN Cube

I'm going to keep writing this until people actually start reading.

It's the main story on IGN cube though, regardless of authorship.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

You can't possibly fathom how much I disagree with your insinuations here. Firstly, Gamecube HAS fixed many things wrong with Nintendo 64.

* Shit third party support - situation improved.
* Not enough games from Nintendo - situation improved,
* Games not released regularly enough - situation improved.
* Archaic cartridge format - eradicated.
* Piracy - prevented.

Third party support is a mixed bag- Yes, there are more games than on N64, but where are the racers, rpgs and fps? GC does not have the variety N64 had.

Not enough game from Nintendo- It doesn't matter when they are turning their fans off by making their most cherished franchises quirky.

Games not released regularly enough- Getting better, but not fixed. We still lack variety. If you like adventure games and party games there's more than enough to choose from though.

Archaic cartridge format- Better, but they still went with media that restricted their options.

Piracy- yes they did good on that.

 

[COCKLES]

To sum it up:

C_________ B___________

Cos I got banned last time. Guess. Could have saved 'em writing a whole article.

Also...like cheap butter, Nintendo are spreading themselves too thin. 3 systems to support...the magic of Miyamoto can only go so far. To be honest, Ninty should concentrate the classic franchises to handhelds and invent some new ones for their next TV hardware - will it truly be a revolution tho?

 

[Matlock]

To sum it up:

C_________ B___________

Cos I got banned last time. Guess. Could have saved 'em writing a whole article.

Also...like cheap butter, Nintendo are spreading themselves too thin. 3 systems to support...the magic of Miyamoto can only go so far. To be honest, Ninty should concentrate the classic franchises to handhelds and invent some new ones for their next TV hardware - will it truly be a revolution tho?

Crash Bandicoot?

 

[snapty00]

Seeeeeee Beeeeeee?

CB?

SeaBee?

 

[Kon Tiki]

Creatively Blossoming.

 

[Goreomedy]

Creatively Blossoming.

:lol

 

[MarkMacD]

Some good points, imo--I agree with his basic argument. Jungle Beat especiallly I'd loved to see all new characters and a world designed around such a unique new concept. Or even Donkey Konga, Nintendo could have launched some new music franchise characters.

Or maybe I just hate the Rare Donkey Kong design

One thing I disagree with:
"An incredible fighter like Soul Calibur II would have sold worst on the GameCube if not for the inclusion of Link."

I think SoulCali2 sold so well on the Cube because the audience was/is -desperate- for a quality fighting game on the Cube, wheras other system owners have a few to choose from.

 

[Bluemercury]

Speaking of franchises, where the hell is Punch out, Kid Icarus, mach rider, ice climbers, ballon fight, Excitebike(god know how i loved the N64 one) etc.....i mean sure they might not want to develop new franchises but at least make use of ALL the ones you have.......

 

[snapty00]

We'll probably see Mario's Rainbow Punch-Punch before we see Punch-Out again.

 

[Memles]

Speaking of franchises, where the hell is Punch out, Kid Icarus, mach rider, ice climbers, ballon fight, Excitebike(god know how i loved the N64 one) etc.....i mean sure they might not want to develop new franchises but at least make use of ALL the ones you have.......

I fully expect at least Excitebike and Punch-out back...on the DS.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

whether Matt writes it or not, its the same sentiment he's been spewing since he and the IGNcube staff were pwned! at e3 2003 by PacMan Vs. The simple fact remains that Nintendo is not your daddy or your mommy. There is no need to have some "intervention". If you don't like the games they are making, move the fuck on and find something you do like, instead of being some pathetic fanboy. There are 4 (soon to be 6, maybe 7) viable platforms out, with thousands of games, dozens of supremely talented developers out there, if you can't find something you REALLY like because you've pigeonholed yourself into being only about Nintendo and Gamecube games and playing armchair CEO than you need a new hobby. Let Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony worry about financial statments and marketshare and how to improve their market situation, thats what they get paid for.

 

[JasoNsider]

whether Matt writes it or not, its the same sentiment he's been spewing since he and the IGNcube staff were pwned! at e3 2003 by PacMan Vs. The simple fact remains that Nintendo is not your daddy or your mommy. There is no need to have some "intervention". If you don't like the games they are making, move the fuck on and find something you do like, instead of being some pathetic fanboy. There are 4 (soon to be 6, maybe 7) viable platforms out, with thousands of games, dozens of supremely talented developers out there, if you can't find something you REALLY like because you've pigeonholed yourself into being only about Nintendo and Gamecube games and playing armchair CEO than you need a new hobby. Let Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony worry about financial statments and marketshare and how to improve their market situation, thats what they get paid for.

I work for N-Sider and I still think this is almost 100% accurate. That's pretty much my problem with most of these armchair analyst pieces as well. With that being said, there's nothing wrong about pointing out supposed faults every now and then. It's just that it gets silly hearing the same kind of complaining day-in and day-out.

 

[drohne]

catamitically blissoming

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Third party support has improved this generation from last, but what does that matter when people aren't buying the system (nor the big first-party titles) in numbers that they did in the last?

 

[DDayton]

This was not written by IGN Cube

I'm going to keep writing this until people actually start reading.

It's "published" by IGN. Therefore, folks tend to assume, quite logically, that IGN supports the mindset of it. If people hate it, IGN gets the blame. If people love it, IGN gets the credit... which leads to my earlier question, why are non-IGN articles appearing on IGN? Do you guys get some sort of benefit from this?

P.S. N-Sider owes me an e3 2003 VCD set (paid for, but never delivered) and a SSBM Tournament position. Just in case folks think I have issues with them! Heheheh...

 

[fallout]

P.S. N-Sider owes me an e3 2003 VCD set (paid for, but never delivered) and a SSBM Tournament position. Just in case folks think I have issues with them! Heheheh...

E-mail Dean (dean@n-sider.com) about the VCD (which you can actually get in DVD form now). As for the tourney, it never actually happened, heh.

 

[Warm Machine]

The sooner we can have a one console industry the better.

 

[DDayton]

As for the tourney, it never actually happened, heh.

I know -- I was in the crowd of invited people who were chased away, only to be told later than a minitournament was held anyway. Heheheh... that was an interesting year.

I will have to send another e-mail off... I've done that a few times, and never got any answer.

Regardless, WHY is IGN running non-IGN material? I'm still curious.

 

[Sriram]

What, exactly, is so bad about using existing franchises for new, original games? People come out with all this stuff about mario is playing golf, kart, tennis, etc but they are all good games by themselves. Nintendo wanting to use popular franchises is the exact same thing as sony not calling their consoles anything but playstations.

 

[human5892]

The sooner we can have a one console industry the better.

YES.