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[IceCold]

Where can I go to learn about this stuff?

 

[Darias]

What software/services do you use for streaming market data, if any? I figured since I had an account with fidelity, it would be available to me if I ever wanted it, however this is now looking incorrect. Apparently I need to make 120 trades before they'll let me have streaming data?

 

[I'm an expert]

The thread that tamed Timedog.

But seriously, folks, do not get into options trading because of this thread lol.

Also if you wanted to be an actual day trader you'd need a min balance of 25k (margin is fine) anyway.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Only if lightning strikes twice and the hardware gets a BIG (and I mean BIG) boom like the original Wii. You might want to sell after that initial wave if the typical Nintendo apathy/no third-parties on board starts to settle in.

WiiU should easily be sold out for the launch period and the months after... So I figured that plus AMDs next quarterly results after the launch or something.

 

[Jafku]

Where can I go to learn about this stuff?

Investopedia

 

[ezrarh]

There are a lot of resources for those interested but I like The Motley Fool for basic information on this stuff. And I hope people aren't interested in this cause some guy was able to turn 2000 to 100k in 2008.

 

[DietRob]

There are a lot of resources for those interested but I like The Motley Fool for basic information on this stuff. And I hope people aren't interested in this cause some guy was able to turn 2000 to 100k in 2008.

For me it's interesting because I sit at home and babysit a call center so I have tons of downtime.

If I can do something positive with regular stock trading in the investopedia game. I'll think about dabbling in some day trading with real funds.

Options are way to risky for me. Don't have the stomach for it.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Just be aware: playing with real vs 'play' (investopedia) money will affect the way you trade.

It's not a bad idea to get comfortable with the mechanics of trading, but you shouldn't expect similar results. For example, it's a lot easier to make riskier bets when the money isn't real.

 

[DietRob]

Just be aware: playing with real vs 'play' (investopedia) money will affect the way you trade.

Yea, I'm sure I'll be much more conservative. I don't have ANY experience with trading stocks so any 'real' investments are still quite a way off for me.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

WiiU should easily be sold out for the launch period and the months after... So I figured that plus AMDs next quarterly results after the launch or something.

But if a bunch of investors already bought with that hope how can it go up? Apple stock when down even with crazy iPhone 5 sales because the expectations were already included in the stock price. Not always the case but you're not the first to assume new things sell well usually.

 

[malfcn]

wish i could understand this shit

I'm sad that I used to know what all this stuff meant. Learned, and forgotten..*shame*

 

[Timedog]

The thread that tamed Timedog.

But seriously, folks, do not get into options trading because of this thread lol.

Also if you wanted to be an actual day trader you'd need a min balance of 25k (margin is fine) anyway.

25k with an expectation of about how much a month on average? If I only want to make 1k a month it seems like I'd need far less (and with a lower trade volumes by the same relative amount) than someone who wants to make around 4k on average per month.

I'm not looking to get into any type of investing for the next year, but I did just start reading a book on investing right now so this thread really piqued my interest.

 

[MVP]

Haha, to the point where you could lose every penny you invested and it not impact you. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. It's the same thing with any other betting.

Basically...you should also already be fully funding a Roth and matching your employer's matching 401k contribution, as well as have an emergency fund, and even then just start small and learn the ins and outs.

Oh, and you WILL lose in the beginning. It just happens, one way or another. Consider it tuition. If you can't afford to lose or break-even, don't play. What I mean by "can't afford to break-even" is that some people invest because they need more money now, and then they don't have the patience to hold on to their investments because they expected it to happen quickly.

 

[Black1ce]

What if you never reach $50,000? What if you only get to $32,759 before losing a ton and now you have $6,000 left thinking about how you once had $32,759, and now you're emotionally broken and taking bigger gambles to get back to $32k, and you end up losing it all, to then hear the people who have never traded in their life tell you "Dude, I would've cashed out at $30,000"

Yep, this is a hindsight bias.

 

[I'm an expert]

25k with an expectation of about how much a month on average? If I only want to make 1k a month it seems like I'd need far less (and with a lower trade volumes by the same relative amount) than someone who wants to make around 4k on average per month.

I'm not looking to get into any type of investing for the next year, but I did just start reading a book on investing right now so this thread really piqued my interest.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_day_trader

I dunno how relevant it is now, but I read this book years ago just for fun and found it fairly easy to digest. It's more about the concepts than strategy:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1593376863/?tag=neogaf0e-20

edit: shit..missed page 5-6.. op is already down 50%..that's in just a few hours. bout all you need to know if you have a weak stomach for this stuff. I'm sure he'll bounce back

 

[Darias]

At $10,140 in GAF game... Think I am being too careful. >.<

Have to spend some money, but the diversification rule is making it difficult.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

But if a bunch of investors already bought with that hope how can it go up? Apple stock when down even with crazy iPhone 5 sales because the expectations were already included in the stock price. Not always the case but you're not the first to assume new things sell well usually.

Like I said, I'm new to this and just wanted a stock to follow with real money at a low price. I mean, it was like 3.50 when I bought it and I only did 25 shares. I think with that, it'll force me to do more research and learn more about stocks in general since I have something tangible invested at least.

That plus AMD was so cheap when earlier in the year it was around 8-9, I figured it was about bottom and it probably wouldn't go too much lower than it already was.

 

[Mengy]

Time decay, and I had that mentality when I first started years ago. "It'll come back, I'll hold longer"...It's a poisonous mentality, take your losses like a champ and move on is what I learned.

I avoid options but I do stocks now and then, and I am still learning this lesson. I tend to hold onto junk that I should dump at the first sign of trouble. I've lost so much money due to hope, lol. I tend to invest in safer stocks nowadays, very long in everything I own.


Good luck MVP, don't let fear set in.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Basic way to understand options:

Take an orange. The orange is the underlying stock, as an example we could use Google, or GOOG.

Right now that orange is priced at $1. People are selling $2 call options that expire in a month for .25

That gives me the right to buy that orange for $2 a month from now, and I'm paying .25 for that contract. If I buy that contract today, and in a week, it is discovered that Elvis owned this orange and held it in his hand, this orange is now worth $100,000, but I have a contract that will force the seller to give it to me for $2, meaning the contract I paid .25 for is now worth $99,998.

I can hold on to this option until it expires and cash it in and get my orange and pay $2, but then I have an orange that maybe people don't want to buy, and maybe I don't have $2 in my name. Instead, I can also just resell that contract to someone else and take my profit, and now they assume all the risk. If it turns out it isn't Elvis' orange, the price goes down and they messed up, or if I had held on too long hoping to cash it in and it turns out it wasn't his orange, I lose my profits.

Hmm...this seems deceptively easy. Actually like the OP mentions you don't do this with your 401K, savings, emergency, and such. I have some side money though. Hmmmm Hmmmm

 

[MVP]

And this is why you don't trade with life savings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMwMsY0ndo

The video is kind of interesting to someone who has had that reaction before, it's always the same...you stare at the screen in disbelief, before it sinks in and you go crazy haha I had one of these reactions before a long time ago on Full Tilt Poker playing 100/200 NL, AK < AQ

 

[Subitai]

SUBSCRIBED

Spoiler

for inevitable tears

This!

Spoiler

and the miniscule possibility of tears of joy

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

25k with an expectation of about how much a month on average? If I only want to make 1k a month it seems like I'd need far less (and with a lower trade volumes by the same relative amount) than someone who wants to make around 4k on average per month.

I'm not looking to get into any type of investing for the next year, but I did just start reading a book on investing right now so this thread really piqued my interest.

You'll never make even close to 12k a year with 25k unless you do risky trades and have a lot of risk to lose it all very early on. If that was the case then everyone would be making close to 50% every year on their investments. Your expectations are completely unreasonable.

 

[MVP]

That's right TPX...bleed out...eyeing that gap

 

[zchen]

do I have the math of the first transaction right?

15x100x.90=1350 invested
sold at 15x100x.4=$600
loss of $750?

but MVP said loss of $700? Where did I mess up?

 

[MVP]

And this is why you don't trade with life savings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMwMsY0ndo

The video is kind of interesting to someone who has had that reaction before, it's always the same...you stare at the screen in disbelief, before it sinks in and you go crazy haha I had one of these reactions before a long time ago on Full Tilt Poker playing 100/200 NL, AK < AQ

Even the looking away from the screen for 10 seconds and then coming back hoping that you were dreaming haha

 

[MVP]

do I have the math of the first transaction right?

15x100x.90=1350 invested
sold at 15x100x.4=$600
loss of $750?

but MVP said loss of $700? Where did I mess up?

It was 14 contracts sorry, I corrected it later

 

[Darias]

MVP : Why do some stocks have options listed, and others do not?

(This is in investopedia - not sure if it's mirrored in the real world. I was looking at DFS)

 

[RepairmanJack]

And this is why you don't trade with life savings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMwMsY0ndo

The video is kind of interesting to someone who has had that reaction before, it's always the same...you stare at the screen in disbelief, before it sinks in and you go crazy haha I had one of these reactions before a long time ago on Full Tilt Poker playing 100/200 NL, AK < AQ

That feel...all too familiar.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

And this is why you don't trade with life savings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMwMsY0ndo

The video is kind of interesting to someone who has had that reaction before, it's always the same...you stare at the screen in disbelief, before it sinks in and you go crazy haha I had one of these reactions before a long time ago on Full Tilt Poker playing 100/200 NL, AK < AQ

GAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!

Yeah, it's like I am with my savings my wife and I have. We could do/buy some cool crap with that...but we want to get a house eventually and provide a good life for our daughter (and the cat).

It's also why I directly invest or gamble very little that, "high" to double down or keep going higher is just too much sometimes.

 

[Timedog]

You'll never make even close to 12k a year with 25k unless you do risky trades and have a lot of risk to lose it all very early on. If that was the case then everyone would be making close to 50% every year on their investments. Your expectations are completely unreasonable.

Huh? Where did I say I personally had any expectations? I was pointing out that saying "you need 25k to be a day trader" doesn't make sense to me, because it would depend on the persons expectation of increased income. The amounts I gave of 1k or 4k were completely arbitrary. I could have used $10 and $10,000,000.

 

[I'm an expert]

Huh? Where did I say I personally had any expectations? I was pointing out that saying "you need 25k to be a day trader" doesn't make sense to me, because it would depend on the persons expectation of increased income. The amounts I gave of 1k or 4k were completely arbitrary. I could have used $10 and $10,000,000.

I meant legally, determined by the SEC. I linked the explanation above.

 

[Recon]

And this is why you don't trade with life savings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMwMsY0ndo

The video is kind of interesting to someone who has had that reaction before, it's always the same...you stare at the screen in disbelief, before it sinks in and you go crazy haha I had one of these reactions before a long time ago on Full Tilt Poker playing 100/200 NL, AK < AQ

Wait, how much did he lose?

 

[lsslave]

Read follow up post, explained better

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Bulls make money.

Bears make money.

Pigs get slaughtered.

 

[Presco]

I bought AAPL weekly Calls last Friday hoping for a big week after the launch of the iPhone 5. Needless to say that I took a hit this week. Weekly options are not for the faint of heart. Huge upside but also a huge downside. Picked up some October monthly calls after the drop and some new weeklies today for next week. This bitch better rebound.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Huh? Where did I say I personally had any expectations? I was pointing out that saying "you need 25k to be a day trader" doesn't make sense to me, because it would depend on the persons expectation of increased income. The amounts I gave of 1k or 4k were completely arbitrary. I could have used $10 and $10,000,000.

Ah, alright. I thought you were saying those are your expectations due to some people in these threads actually think like that when they start investing. Ya, I would think it needs to be even higher since day trader in my mind means it's their only job so 12k a year is kind of shitty wage.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I bought AAPL weekly Calls last Friday hoping for a big week after the launch of the iPhone 5. Needless to say that I took a hit this week. Weekly options are not for the faint of heart. Huge upside but also a huge downside. Picked up some October monthly calls after the drop and some new weeklies today for next week. This bitch better rebound.

I'm wondering if any of the Gun makers listed (Ruger and S&W offhand) might get a big bump post election, even if artificial and temporary, but long enough for a quick buy and dump.

Anyone thinks this makes any sense?

 

[DarkFlow]

At $10,140 in GAF game... Think I am being too careful. >.<

Have to spend some money, but the diversification rule is making it difficult.

Pm me a link to the GAF game. I always like playing these.

 

[Divvy]

I'm wondering if any of the Gun makers listed (Ruger and S&W offhand) might get a big bump post election, even if artificial and temporary, but long enough for a quick buy and dump.

Anyone thinks this makes any sense?

It makes sense, but it might also be priced in at that point. You should check if there's been a run up recently.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

I'm not a man of options, more of a forex and indices trader but good luck, will keep an eye on this interesting thread.

 

[ggnoobIGN]

I'm wondering if any of the Gun makers listed (Ruger and S&W offhand) might get a big bump post election, even if artificial and temporary, but long enough for a quick buy and dump.

Anyone thinks this makes any sense?

I don't know anything about the industry to say if this is true or not. But with this kind of speculation you have to remember this already can be priced in the stock currently. It's good though if you're short term trading to trade in industries you are very familiar with. Just don't let biases get in the way.

 

[MVP]

I'm not a man of options, more of a forex and indices trader but good luck, will keep an eye on this interesting thread.

I need to learn forex...read up on babypips.com a while back but never followed up on it

 

[Timedog]

I meant legally, determined by the SEC. I linked the explanation above.

Oh I see. Doesn't count for cash accounts though. So a margin account is you trading with someone else's money. Would this be like someone who is a "professional" day trader, hired by companies to play? And I guess people using cash aren't technically "day traders"?

 

[MVP]

Oh I see. Doesn't count for cash accounts though. So a margin account is you trading with someone else's money. Would this be like someone who is a "professional" day trader, hired by companies to play? And I guess people using cash aren't technically "day traders"?

You can use less in a cash account but after 3 day trades in a 5 day period they'll restrict you to using settled funds...for stocks that can take 3 days, options 1 day.

 

[Bob White]

Can someone PM the password of the 100K challenge thingy?

 

[undercoverb0ss]

You can use less in a cash account but after 3 day trades in a 5 day period they'll restrict you to using settled funds...for stocks that can take 3 days, options 1 day.

On the TPX put, are you planning on unloading within the day or sometime later in the week?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It makes sense, but it might also be priced in at that point. You should check if there's been a run up recently.

Hmm lets see
Ruger

Range 47.57 - 49.23
52 week 23.86 - 58.42
Open 48.50
Vol / Avg. 110,896.00/446,558.00
Mkt cap 938.27M
P/E 17.49
Div/yield 0.38/2.15
EPS 2.80
Shares 19.16M
Beta 0.39
Inst. own 86%

https://www.google.com/finance?chdn...Line&q=NYSE:RGR&ntsp=0&ei=yIdkUKCwJO-80QGjjgE

Smith and Wesson (has been doing nice..well from before)
https://www.google.com/finance?chdn...ne&q=NASDAQ:SWHC&ntsp=0&ei=J4hkULjbE4q00AHnRg

Range 10.36 - 10.84
52 week 2.29 - 11.21
Open 10.39
Vol / Avg. 1.14M/2.85M
Mkt cap 706.07M
P/E 16.49
Div/yield -
EPS 0.65
Shares 65.50M
Beta 1.26
Inst. own 65%


Aurora Shooting seemed to have an effect similar to what the election might have.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/1163...perform-market-following-aurora-shooting.html

http://beta.fool.com/erinannie/2012/03/23/buy-gun-stocks-when-democrat-office/3089/

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Oh I see. Doesn't count for cash accounts though. So a margin account is you trading with someone else's money. Would this be like someone who is a "professional" day trader, hired by companies to play? And I guess people using cash aren't technically "day traders"?

Yes and no. You're not trading with someone else's money persay because you still have to pay up. Depending on the positions you take and the amount of options you pay into it you will have different margins. Margins are there so if you have huge losses you'll still pay up your tab when the final price is decided. It's still your money as you have to pay all losses still, the margin account is for them to hold as collateral so you don't stiff them if you lose.

 

[MVP]

On the TPX put, are you planning on unloading within the day or sometime later in the week?

Probably sometime next week unless something drastic happens...it's been fading all day, hopefully ends close to low of day and it'll gap down tomorrow...they took over Sealy's debt too

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't know anything about the industry to say if this is true or not. But with this kind of speculation you have to remember this already can be priced in the stock currently. It's good though if you're short term trading to trade in industries you are very familiar with. Just don't let biases get in the way.

True, it's more of an interest since really only Ruger and S&W are publicly trade, well that I know of. Ruger's been having a great year and produces some of the top selling guns, hell they had to stop taking orders for a few months they had so many orders.