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imo game developers should focus alot on the ending

SantaC

Member
The ending in a game leaves thegamers a last impression of the experience. Imo there need to be better and more kick ass, emotional endings. It's a good thing since the gamer will appriciate the game more if it has a great ending..

One of the best endings I ever seen is FF9, which had alot of twists before it finally was clear what happend.
 

Ranger X

Member
SantaCruZer said:
The ending in a game leaves thegamers a last impression of the experience. Imo there need to be better and more kick ass, emotional endings. It's a good thing since the gamer will appriciate the game more if it has a great ending..

One of the best endings I ever seen is FF9, which had alot of twists before it finally was clear what happend.


When it's a game based on a story like an RPG, of course it needs a great ending. If not, it would be like a book ending bad or a movie ending bad.
As of other types of games, i can't disagree more! They should focus in offering great gameplay and alot of it. It's what i did through a game that i remember. Games that are bad in gameplay are soon erased from my memories.
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
SantaCruZer said:
The ending in a game leaves thegamers a last impression of the experience.

Well, sometimes the last impression is a frustrating moment that brings out much hatred, long before the actual ending.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
FF9 was a good ending?

That was a horrible ending. I can't remember what happened at all. Moreover, the end boss just came outta no where. Like Yu Yevon, the giant tick. Except Yu Yevon got a lot more mention before been revealed as a giant tick.

FF8 ending was far better as far as late and poorly revealed bosses go. There was a girl that grew up with prophecy dooming her; thus through a sort of self fufilling prophecy, she grew up wanting to destroy SEED and reached across space and time in an attempt to save herself. Of course her ass was kicked, but it had a good touch of finer greek tragedy, to it's otherwise bombastic and confusing end.
 
SantaCruZer said:
The ending in a game leaves thegamers a last impression of the experience. Imo there need to be better and more kick ass, emotional endings. It's a good thing since the gamer will appriciate the game more if it has a great ending..

One of the best endings I ever seen is FF9, which had alot of twists before it finally was clear what happend.

ICO had a great ending that didn't spell everything out for you.
 

Vlad

Member
Eh, I'd personally much rather have an awesome last section + final boss instead of a really good ending. To me, having a game completely run out of steam near the end or have a really lame-ass last boss (see PoP:SoT or Eternal Darkness) just completely ruins the feel of the game for me.

Serious Sam, for example, didn't have much of an ending to speak of, but the last chunk of the game was good enough to excuse that.
 
I'm really getting tired of the endings that are nothing more than "Woo here's 5secs telling you that there will be a sequel". And then its over. You go through a 20-30hour game for that?
 

ferricide

Member
i think beginnings need a lot more work. shitty fucking tutorials, gameplay that doesn't get good for an hour or two ... that's one thing FF is great at doing (and it's a big, big problem for other games in the genre.) the beginning of FF games typically throw you right into the story and action and get you interested, while teaching you just enough so that if you don't know how to play it you start to learn. hell, i played the beginning of FFX several times just for fun. it was so beautiful and interesting.
 
ferricide said:
i think beginnings need a lot more work. shitty fucking tutorials, gameplay that doesn't get good for an hour or two ... that's one thing FF is great at doing (and it's a big, big problem for other games in the genre.)

tri-Ace, I'M CALLING YOU OUT!!
 

RiZ III

Member
Onimusha 3 has an awsome ending. Imo anyways.
The part where the future Samanouske returns to meet Nobunaga after the other Samanouske is killed was awwsome.

Panzer Dragoon Saga also had a very good ending while leaving the player hanging to a certain degree.
 

Do The Mario

Unconfirmed Member
Yes I was devastated with the ending of minesweeper


I have a better idea


Why don’t developers put more focus on game play?

BTW FF9 >>>>> FF8
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
ferricide said:
i think beginnings need a lot more work. shitty fucking tutorials

Amen! I hate how you're sometimes forced to go through amazingly slow, sleep-inducing tutorials in games. And even if they're optional, I sometimes still choose to watch the tutorials because they can be more interesting than reading the manual. But they usually end up being total bores too.

This is especially frustrating during the first parts of the game...first the opening scenes, then you play for a short while with stripped-down controls, then you find some kickass weapon you wanna use but...but WAIT! First you must learn how to use it! Grah! I just want to kill roaring monsters from hell, stop this tutorial madness! I'll mash random buttons if that's what it takes. :(
 

etiolate

Banned
Yeah, I find the start of games more an issue than the endings to games lately. Beginnings either suffer from way too much story/dialogue, too little explanation of how the game plays or WAY TOO MUCH tutorials on how the game plays. I hate a lot of the tutorials which are in practice areas which are NOTHING like the actual game.
 

Ranger X

Member
I pray for those who still play their games for the ending. You aren't gamers! Go watch a movie or something lol

The only kind of games where the story really matters and actually the ending is really determinent is games that are strongly based on a story. (like RPGs per example)
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wyzdom said:
I pray for those who still play their games for the ending. You aren't gamers! Go watch a movie or something lol

The only kind of games where the story really matters and actually the ending is really determinent is games that are strongly based on a story. (like RPGs per example)

I dunno, endings are pretty important in most games...

While the actual gameplay is most important, when you are placing the disc of a game you just finished back in its case...those last events will stick with you. If the ending was of poor quality, it may actually damage your opinion of the game as a whole when you reflect back on it.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
ferricide said:
i think beginnings need a lot more work. shitty fucking tutorials, gameplay that doesn't get good for an hour or two ... that's one thing FF is great at doing (and it's a big, big problem for other games in the genre.) the beginning of FF games typically throw you right into the story and action and get you interested, while teaching you just enough so that if you don't know how to play it you start to learn. hell, i played the beginning of FFX several times just for fun. it was so beautiful and interesting.


Yes! Beginnings are so important! i totally agree with this statement. Games like Dynamite headdy, for instance, have a great beginning that totally just suck you in, and introduce you to the gameplay in a very oblique sort of way. I'd like to add that these days for me endings arent important at all. I have a hard time finding games that will actually keep me interested the whole way through. That is much more of a problem than what the endings are like.
 
Wyzdom said:
I pray for those who still play their games for the ending. You aren't gamers! Go watch a movie or something lol

The only kind of games where the story really matters and actually the ending is really determinent is games that are strongly based on a story. (like RPGs per example)

I just expect some kind of pay off with the ending. GOing through a 20-30 hour game and then all you get is a 5 second ending that's really more of an ad for the next game sucks. The MGS games do it just right. You get an actual ending to the game you just beat and then a set up for the sequel.
 

Ranger X

Member
dark10x said:
I dunno, endings are pretty important in most games...

While the actual gameplay is most important, when you are placing the disc of a game you just finished back in its case...those last events will stick with you. If the ending was of poor quality, it may actually damage your opinion of the game as a whole when you reflect back on it.

There are games i remember as excellent games with a bad ending. They are still great.
What sticks with me is the overall experience and the ending is a very very small part of that believe me. People should not see the ending as something as important as they see it. The end of a GAME is "you win" or "you lose". The end of a STORY can ruin it or not.
 

Ranger X

Member
SolidSnakex said:
I just expect some kind of pay off with the ending. GOing through a 20-30 hour game and then all you get is a 5 second ending that's really more of an ad for the next game sucks. The MGS games do it just right. You get an actual ending to the game you just beat and then a set up for the sequel.

Again, it fits exactly in what i say. Metal Gear Solid is story based!!! it need a good ending in order not to leave a bad taste.
And what does really repay your investment in game? A game with incredible gameplay, twist and fun during 30 hours with a poor ending or a game that is dull and shitty for 30 hours but with the best ending ever? Common! lol
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wyzdom said:
There are games i remember as excellent games with a bad ending. They are still great.
What sticks with me is the overall experience and the ending is a very very small part of that believe me. People should not see the ending as something as important as they see it. The end of a GAME is "you win" or "you lose". The end of a STORY can ruin it or not.

Perhaps you feel that way, but that just isn't true for everyone...

A good ending is not a requirement, but it can have an incredibly positive impact when all is said and done. That's what you need to consider. A game can still be great while offering a terrible ending...but a great game + a great ending will generally leave a more positive final impression of the player.
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
I'll just say, if anyone out there is playing Indiana Jones (Xbox, PS2) to see the ending - don't bother. :/
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Kiriku said:
I'll just say, if anyone out there is playing Indiana Jones (Xbox, PS2) to see the ending - don't bother. :/

Ha ha, yes, that is very true...

The ending was absolute shit.
 
Wyzdom said:
Again, it fits exactly in what i say. Metal Gear Solid is story based!!! it need a good ending in order not to leave a bad taste.
And what does really repay your investment in game? A game with incredible gameplay, twist and fun during 30 hours with a poor ending or a game that is dull and shitty for 30 hours but with the best ending ever? Common! lol

I didn't say it ruins the experience. But generally when you have a game that's 30 hours it is going to have a certain amount of focus on the story. It's not going to be nonstop gameplay for 30 straight hours.
 

Ranger X

Member
dark10x said:
Perhaps you feel that way, but that just isn't true for everyone...

A good ending is not a requirement, but it can have an incredibly positive impact when all is said and done. That's what you need to consider. A game can still be great while offering a terrible ending...but a great game + a great ending will generally leave a more positive final impression of the player.


Of course that "great + great = better". Easy to say. But that great game with the only flaw of a bad ending, i will remember it great common! I swear there's too much importance put on the ending of a game generally. And also graphics. Gamers slowly lose the point.
 
Wyzdom said:
And also graphics. Gamers slowly lose the point.

Nah, gamers have just become spoiled by developers that can do it all and it makes them less tolerant of developers who really can't seem to do anything right.
 

Ranger X

Member
SolidSnakex said:
I didn't say it ruins the experience. But generally when you have a game that's 30 hours it is going to have a certain amount of focus on the story. It's not going to be nonstop gameplay for 30 straight hours.

Well, the games needs a story somewhere. Almost every game have a story now. But it's different to have a story and be story-based. Let's put my thoughts another way, maybe it's gonna be clearer for people: "the more your game is story-based, the more it needs a good ending".
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wyzdom said:
Of course that "great + great = better". Easy to say. But that great game with the only flaw of a bad ending, i will remember it great common! I swear there's too much importance put on the ending of a game generally. And also graphics. Gamers slowly lose the point.

That's right, "great + great = better". I would prefer a great game with a great ending over a great game with a bad ending...

An ending certainly isn't something I take into consideration when I purchase something, though. It is like a cherry on top and I appreciate when developers go out of their way to make the ending special.

I'd say your last point about graphics could be countered with the popularity of Grand Theft Auto. The game is quite awful looking and is loaded with technical problems...yet people LOVE it. It isn't about the visuals to them...
 

Ranger X

Member
dark10x said:
That's right, "great + great = better". I would prefer a great game with a great ending over a great game with a bad ending...

An ending certainly isn't something I take into consideration when I purchase something, though. It is like a cherry on top and I appreciate when developers go out of their way to make the ending special.

I'd say your last point about graphics could be countered with the popularity of Grand Theft Auto. The game is quite awful looking and is loaded with technical problems...yet people LOVE it. It isn't about the visuals to them...

well, graphics are contextual and GTASA's are pretty impressive!! This game is processing a planet big amount of shit at the same time. Those graphics are probably the best as it can get this gen. But again, i must be an alien or something lol

And is your sunday worth it when it doesn't have a cherry on top? (remember there's still anything else that you think is good like chocolate, nuts, tons of flavors and other stuff)
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wyzdom said:
well, graphics are contextual and GTASA's are pretty impressive!! This game is processing a planet big amount of shit at the same time. Those graphics are probably the best as it can get this gen. But again, i must be an alien or something lol

No, the graphics themselves are pretty awful...but the ideas that they convey are quite appealing to most people.
 
I've always liked the look of GTA. The art is really what carries it. If it were trying to be realistic like games that are similar to it then it'd look pretty bad, but since it goes for a more cartoonish look it pulls off a really unique look. It's not one of the best looking games this gen, but it looks fine I think.
 

Ranger X

Member
dark10x said:
No, the graphics themselves are pretty awful...but the ideas that they convey are quite appealing to most people.

Well, graphics are contextual my friend. When you tell me something like this, it may mean you don't understand how to judge graphics. Tell me, would you tell me that a drawing made out of one pen isn't good looking because it lacks colors??
And if i ask you what is great graphic on the SNES, you will take it in context woudn't you?
 

Culex

Banned
Regarding endings to RPG's, Final Fantasy 3 (US) had a nearly 30 min long ending. And by all the reports that I've heard about Baten Kaitos, it's 90 minutes long.
 

Rahul

Member
I think the point of this topic was the ending that occurs after [beating the final boss], not the process of doing so or even the final dungeon leading up to it. In the case of FF9, the ending was long and dynamic and certainly something different, regardless of whether gamers were confused by the sudden appearance of the last boss. A problem most large, longwinded RPGs must confront is having to tie up all the loose ends in several minutes of footage. Final Fantasy has learned how to handle this by throwing in a large plot-related cliffhanger during or after the credits (FFVII: the world ends, or maybe it doesn't; FFVIII: Squall dies, or maybe he doesn't; FFX: the plot resolves itself purely due to the nature of its construction [careful planning on the scenario writers' part, in this case]; FFVI and FFIX: each character's future is given a short overview during/after credits). In PoP:SoT, the ending is built such that you know it was meant to be this way from the beginning, although the last boss you just fought seems like it was an afterthought. In this case, was the story or the gameplay climax the most important in the minds of the developers?

Either way, attention must obviously be paid to the genre in question. When we talk about endings in RPGs we're talking about something entirely different than the ending in a Mario game or sports title (should it have an ending at all) where the playing of the game itself is more important than the climax attained from reaching the apex of the game's linearity.

Is replayability an issue? Maybe then the quality of the whole experience must be considered of a higher priority than the immediate aftertaste caused by the ending.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Wyzdom said:
Well, graphics are contextual my friend. When you tell me something like this, it may mean you don't understand how to judge graphics. Tell me, would you tell me that a drawing made out of one pen isn't good looking because it lacks colors??
And if i ask you what is great graphic on the SNES, you will take it in context woudn't you?

Yes, you are correct...however, in this case, I believe it is fair to compare the game against other titles that also draw similar environments.

When looking at GTA in the context of other PS2 titles (or even titles on other platforms from this generation), I believe it falters.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Why?

a good percentage of the games I play never get beaten...they should spend more time on the later game to keep me interested enough to actually finish them :b
 

Ranger X

Member
dark10x said:
Yes, you are correct...however, in this case, I believe it is fair to compare the game against other titles that also draw similar environments.

When looking at GTA in the context of other PS2 titles (or even titles on other platforms from this generation), I believe it falters.

But then again, you would have to take a game that runs just as much stuff as GTASA at the same time to have fair comparison. I mean, Jak2 graphics itself shit all over GTASA graphic itself but there's HELLA less stuff hapening on-screen in Jak2. And don't be fooled just by the action, in Jak2 there may be many polys on-screen and many ennemies at some point but still the game doesn't run as many stuff as GTASA. In GTASA you have to consider that in the memory, there's not only all the moving/animating objects but there's alot of other stuff like scripted events that always go on and on. You have also to consider the physics too. This game is ready for you to do sooooo many things at anytime, it needs to load some stuff for that believe me. (and don't ask yourself why this game is in full streaming --- no console this gen would be able to run this game without gigs of RAM)

Oh yeah and just so we don't start a discution over Jak2/GTA graphics: Judging graphics fairly and considering their context, Jak2s and GTASAs are one of the best graphics on the PS2 this gen imo. I could have used a another game better for my example up there.
 
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