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[Kabuki Waq]

These are the GC games i feel are up to nintendo Standards

RE4
SSB:M
MK: DD
Paper Mario
Pikmin 2
Waverace :BS

Rest are all average to crap games

....Yes the Metroid Games included.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I found Metroid Prime to be a bore until I started doing stuff out of order..then it became a blast. Definitely a "3rd time through was more fun than the first time" for me.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I can understand that when ppl get used to the akward control scheme but i really cant understand why people defend the backtracking and respawning saying "its metroid". Fuck that.

Other games had backtracking a respawning as well but you know what then they EVOLVED! backtracking and respawning are just the ways developers cheat to make the game longer.

 

[Ristamar]

The backtracking in MP doesn't make the game that much longer unless you're some obsessive-compulsive freak that absolutely has to kill every enemy you see and conserve every bit of health along the way. Otherwise, it take a few minutes to rush through an area to hit a save point to refuel and reload. Of course, I also don't count exploring previously unreachable sections in old areas backtracking either.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Remember, Iwata wants more games and shorter games out of Nintendo. It has shown in their recent releases.

Yamauchi "got it", and had business acumen, (plus common sense, if a harsh version of it). Iwata lets mumble from his lips too much about wants and the public supposedly flocking to it just cuz. Pandering's bad, but telling people what they should want is worse.

 

[SomeDude]

And that's why personal opinion is a wonderful thing. The world isn't ending because some people don't like Nintendo as much as they used to. And the world won't end when Nintendo gets a new fan.

I grew up on the NES and SNES. They provided tons of enjoyment, and for me still do. I keep my NES and SNES plugged in, while my N64, Dreamcast, Saturn, and Gamecube switch off on dibs for a plug spot.

I don't see what's great about 99% of the Gamecube lineup, but I bought one and found it a worthwhile purchase (for Metroid Prime and my Game Boy Player). I'm not losing any sleep over someone not seeing what was so great about Super Metroid (but my opinion is slightly biased on this game >.>) or F-Zero, just as no one else should lose any sleep over me or others not being interested in Paper Mario or Pikmin.

Nintendo lost 'it' for me during the N64 era, because Mario 64 got boring after a week for me, and when I replayed it again for the first time last month, it wasn't fun. Zelda doesn't seem like what I enjoyed Zelda for when it went 3-d, and when it went back to 2-d it didn't feel the same anymore. And when you take into account the major loss of 3rd party (which looking back over time is what I preferred over 1st-party) support, that didn't leave much to desire, which is slowly being regained with the Gamecube, but the 2 main 3rd parties I buy games from these days (Enix and Square) have little to do with Nintendo anymore, that is also a dent to the company for me as a gamer.

I don't like today's Nintendo compared to yesteryears. Who cares? I don't let someone's non-enjoyment for what I like affect my tastes, nor should anyone else. If it does bug you, then something is wrong.

Nintendo of today has lost 'it' for me, but that by no means means that when I play an old favorite, 'it' is gone. 'It' may come back, or 'it' may not. I play other systems now also, so it doesn't really matter as much as it used to. Anyway, go generic answer obvious post.

I was just stating my opinion...if you like the old games then more power to you.

 

[monkeyrun]

Yamauchi "got it", and had business acumen, (plus common sense, if a harsh version of it). Iwata lets mumble from his lips too much about wants and the public supposedly flocking to it just cuz. Pandering's bad, but telling people what they should want is worse.

that's what creative company do, telling people what they want.

Do you know you want a side scroller game like Mario when Mario didn't exist ?
Do you know you want a dungeon hacking game like Zelda when Zelda didn't exist ?

the fact is you don't, it's companies like nintendo made it happen, and you are like, "cool that's just what I want all along."

 

[Ramirez]

I used to be a huge Nintendo fan,but now,not so much...I want Nintendo franchises with online play,thats not too much to ask for =\

 

[FriScho]

Answer to the topic: YES

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

They lost it near the end of the N64 era. It;s as if they've discovered they were defeated handily and focused their attention from being overly controlling and controlling the market to gain profit to milking as much as they can and making profit from whatever oppourtunity they have. They see their oppourtunity being tied to their strong franchises, so they release a lot of sequels of their big franchises, and branch some of their bigger franchises out (Mario is fighting, Mario is playing tennis, Donkey Kong is drumming, Link is cooperating with other Links). I doubt they will wisen until they have discovered that they're diluting the strength of their franchises by doing so.

Problem is that I doubt they will until it is too late. And even then, they've had difficulty securing a strong franchise, and it's partially due to the games keeping the "Nintendo Style".

Games I feel don't adhere to this rule:

Metroid Prime's new style
1080 Snowboarding (Though franchise is near useless now)
WaveRace (Ditto)
F-Zero (Tritto, and they should get Sega to develop this more)
Possibly Excitebike...

Aside from those games, I find difficulty finding any others that are an exception...

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

Well, if Nintendo had created a system more suited to games like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, and Final Fantasy 7 we would not be having this threaded discourse.
Additionally, if they had enbraced the rise of western publishers and seen the potential of a game like GTA we would not be having this discussion.
But they didn't do that stuff. So now every time they release a game the expectations are insane and they can't take many chances they way Sony can with all of the 3rd party stuff Sony has. And, as Nintendo's history trails off into the sunset it gets easier to take them for granted.

 

[drohne]

i don't think it's a problem of direction. i think their talent has bottomed out. mario sunshine and wind waker suggest that they're no longer capable of the big, polished, mainstream entertainment that was once their signature. and if nintendo can't do size or polish, what are they good for? certainly not style, intelligence, or exhilaration. they're completely unrepresented among the best games of this generation.

 

[captainbiotch]

I do believe Nintendo thinks they know better than their customers. I'm not even sure they know who their customers ARE. If you say you are trying to appeal to everyone, appeal to everyone. Stop trying to dictate peoples tastes. The whole self involved Nintendo innovation needs to go.

 

[Deku]

The pessimism and complaining and pure bias and obsession of a lot of gamers on this board is getting to extreme levels. If you are disappointed with your cube get some friends(REVOLUTIONARY!?) and load up 4 swords or wario ware or mario kart or smash bros and enjoy what gaming should be all about.

I don't think the people bitching have any friends.

 

[Solid]

Answer to the topic: YES

^

No Revolution for me.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I don't think the people bitching have any friends.

Or they cannot summon their friends in an instant to make a rather plain game somewhat pleasing, not via the game being pleasing itself but the experience with friends.

It's a real problem, and the malicious snap just exposes how big the flaw is.

 

[Deku]

Or they cannot summon their friends in an instant to make a rather plain game somewhat pleasing, not via the game being pleasing itself but the experience with friends.

It's a real problem, and the malicious snap just exposes how big the flaw is.

I'm just baffled at the generally misinformed opinions and trolling that's going on. It seems to me like the people bitching are just taking another easy shot at the Cube because they don't own one and want to act like an ass. But given the current climate here at GAF, acting like an ass in a nintendo bash thread is in vogue.

In anycase. I spend most of my time playing PC games these days, but when I'm with friends, the cube, either mine or my friend's, always gets playtime. I also happen to like a few games on it, other than that, I think I'm getting too old for consoles, the games are generally too shallow. I'd rather play Civ3, RoN or FFXI.

 

[Hero]

The only thing Nintendo has lost is their image.

The N64 generation wasn't so bad, but the Gamecube was just hindered from the indigo color, the design of the console, the lack of major advertising, and not matching their competitors features.

However, the games Nintendo has put out this generation are unrivaled. Compare Nintendo to Sony and Microsoft's 1st and 2nd party ventures and the comparison isn't even close. Heck, EA is the only third party who is larger than Nintendo, and that's split between every single platform.

The Nintendo game library that has spanned through Game Boy Advance to Gamecube is just massive. I cannot see how anyone who considers themselves a gamer not liking at least ONE title out of the dozens of games Nintendo has released. Side scrollers, platformers, puzzlers, RPGs, strategy games, quirk games, first person games, fighting games, racing games, sports, gamesyou name a genre and Nintendo has dabbled in it.

However I'm not going to say their lineup is flawless.

The Mario Sports series games are amazing. However, I think in addition to that, Nintendo needs to get a new development team to replace Left Field. Hopefully this Nintendo Pennant Baseball or whatever is a start in the right direction. To the dismay of most old school gamers, sports games have become increasingly more important in helping to sell systems. Nintendo needs to get on this.

The Revolution needs some sort of way to go online (or no-line as they call it) so players can play together from around the country and globe. They were able to squeeze by this generation without it coming to hit them in the ass, but I doubt people will be as tolerable of it in the next few years. And really, this is a no brainer. If Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, and all the other great multiplayer games were online, I'm sure their sales would be better. But oh well.

Nintendo NEEDs to get third parties even more. The third party support has been a lot better than the N64 days, but it's still not as good as it should be. If Square doesn't want the mainstream FF games on Gamecube/Revolution, then help them create a new franchise. It was unfortunate that Konami didn't allow Kojima to help out with the Twin Snakes as much as he should've. Even with all its flaws, its a great update, but I'm sure if it was a masterpiece it would've sold accordingly, and perhaps we'd be seeing MGS2 and 3 on the way soon.

But by far and wide Capcom, Namco, and Sega have been the biggest third party supporters of the Gamecube.

It's unfortunate that Capcom felt the need to port VJ to PS2 and add Dante in to get in green lighted, because VJ2 deserved to sell better. And announcing a PS2 version of RE4 before the GCN version launched is just stupid. Why would you do that? And not getting RE2, RE3, and RE:CVX to be Player's Choice after the PC brand was established is just a crime. It's like Capcom USA wants their Nintendo games to fail. The Capcom Zelda games have been great though.

Namco is very easy to show. Soul Calibur II was a massive success for them, Link being in there was probably one of the best decisions they've made. (Isn't it past 1 million worldwide on GCN by now?) Tales of Symphonia garnered a great deal of sales in the middle of the year and proved that there's an RPG audience, although I think Baten Kaitos was hurt by the holiday rush as well as not having the anime appeal of ToS.

Sega should be thankful that every Sonic release on Gamecube has performed as well. I mean, ports of SA1 and SA2, plus SMC, easily made a lot of money for them for little to no cost. Sonic should just stay Nintendo exclusive. It's just that simple. But it seems Sega is destined to make stupid decisions. Sonic's performance was mediocre on PS2 and laughable on Xbox, I dread how Super Monkey Ball Deluxe sells.

To wrap it up, Nintendo's not out yet. I believe Iwata is a wise person and can steer Nintendo into this century. Since the Revolution will be pretty much specified by him and only him, it'll be interesting to see how the new President handles his first console system release.

 

[Solid]

Sonic's performance was mediocre on PS2 and laughable on Xbox, I dread how Super Monkey Ball Deluxe sells.

Not in the UK. Sonic Heroes has been on the top 40 for every week since it was released. And Sonic Mega Collection Plus was number 1 last week (taking down NFSU2!).

 

[Lionheart]

However, the games Nintendo has put out this generation are unrivaled. Compare Nintendo to Sony and Microsoft's 1st and 2nd party ventures and the comparison isn't even close.

What? Have you looked at the amount and overall quality of Sony's own games for the PS2? I am pretty impressed with Sony's line-up this generation (didn't really follow them last gen) and I'm really disappointed about Nintendo's GameCube line-up... Saying Sony isn't even close is unfair I think.

And for a first generation for Microsoft, having Halo and Halo 2 each selling more than the best-selling GameCube game (in US at least) is very impressive as well. Other than that, they have had a decent amount of other quality first party releases, although sales haven't been all that yet.

 

[ge-man]

Profitability? No . The ability to create quality games? No. It is becoming harder to defend them in message board augments though. But that has little to with games, or reality for that matter.

That's essentially the heart of the matter. They lost to it with most hardcore gamers, but if you have actually been listening it's pretty clear that they know this is happening but they consider it a neccesary step to carve out a spot for themselves in a future market of convergence.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

I think they should just continue marketing and developing games for the the family.

 

[Axsider]

:lol :lol Is that Hogans shoe? :lol

 

[Ranger X]

Nintendo may not be making games as great as before....

I mean, Super Mario Bros, SMB3, Zelda, etc... They were top games for their time.

Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Zelda ALTTP, Super Metroid = in the best games ever made.

Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Starfox 64, .... all AAAAA games that i still play.

But now in Mario Sunshine and Zelda Wind Waker, i just don't feel this little magic touch Nintendo had before. Metroid Prime is as excellent as it can be but still without this unexplained feeling i can't seem to get anymore.
I only feel "Nintendo's magic" in Pikmin2 and that's all. And that's bad.
Nintendo are just good or great now. They are not the masters anymore imo. They lost something. Most prolly Miyamoto doing too much stuff except vigorously develloping games.

 

[Deg]

Yes Nintendo has lost it. Under Iwata Nintendo are heading towards the path to doom. He really is an ignorant fool.

 

[Buffy4ever]

Sega should be thankful that every Sonic release on Gamecube has performed as well. I mean, ports of SA1 and SA2, plus SMC, easily made a lot of money for them for little to no cost. Sonic should just stay Nintendo exclusive. It's just that simple. But it seems Sega is destined to make stupid decisions. Sonic's performance was mediocre on PS2 and laughable on Xbox, I dread how Super Monkey Ball Deluxe sells.

Not in the UK. Sonic Heroes has been on the top 40 for every week since it was released. And Sonic Mega Collection Plus was number 1 last week (taking down NFSU2!).

Yes Sonic on PS2 has been selling wonderfully in Europe. American Gamecube owners tend to over look what only sells in other countires unless it is Japan. Actually, Sega hasn't done that well on Gamecube in Japan. So just becuase it seems Sega sells the best on Gamecube in America, doesn't mean that Sega's games always sells the best on Gamecube in other counteies.


Back to the main question. I don't think Nintendo has lost it. Heck, they have made great Gameboy advance games. Thier Gamecube games are good. The only problem with the Gamecube with people, is that nintendo tends to be continuing The same franchises from last generation, like many other companies. Nintendo should also ressurrect more old IP's like Metroid to keep thier line up fresh. It would be great to have a new Kid Icruas, Punchout, a 3d Earthbond, or Star tropics games.

 

[jimbo]

Here's what I think. Nintendo is simply trying to get all the gamers in the world to follow them, like they did back in the 16 bit era. They have to WIN today's gamers over and the only way to do that is to first give them what they want, rather than taking the attitude that they know best, and gamers should follow them. Then you have control again.

The other problem is, Nintendo hasn't lost the ability to make great games, but nowadays instead of making 10 "great" games in a generation and 10 "good" games., they're forced to make a lot more "good" games because they don't have enough 3rd party support and they have to pick up the slack. So it seems like the quality has gone down. Not really, there's just a lot more good games, rather than system sellers.

However, having said that I just can't understand WHY they don't try to go out and make a fresh new franchise and turn it into a system seller. It's like they're scared and keep betting on the sure thing, but now that sure thing is what's making them look like they have lost "it". They're now up there with EA and Capcom, if not worse, as far as rehashing and milking goes.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I thought about this the other day. How successful would Nintendo be, if they tried to replicate their launch NES lineup with their next system? I don't mean replicate the actual games themselves, or even the same series. I mean the genre(IE. at least 1 football game, 1 golf game, 1 platformer, etc).

When the NES came out, it launched with 18 games. Nintendo did a very good job launching with a good variety of titles. And pretty much all of them were good games(or at least for their time).

I can't recall how many games the Gamecube launched with, but it was less than 5 games - the only games I can think of are Wave Race, Madden, Luigi's Mansion, Super Monkey Ball, and Rogue Squadron II. All of them good-to average titles, but that's a pretty pathetic launch line-up. Especially compared to the PS2 lineup(Which had more than 20 games).

Here's the list of games the NES launched with in October of 1985:

10 Yard Fight(Sports - Football)
Baseball(Sports - Baseball)
Clu Clu Land(Puzzle)
Donkey Kong Jr. Math(Educational)
Duck Hunt(Light Gun Shooter)
Excitebike(Racing - Bikes)
Golf(Sports - Golf)
Gyromite(Quirky-Puzzler)
Hogan's Alley(Light Gun Shooter)
Ice Climber(Platformer)
Kung Fu(Action-Adventure)
Mach Rider(Racing)
Pinball(Pinball)
Stack-Up(Quirky-Puzzler)
Super Mario Bros.(Platformer - System-seller)
Tennis(Sports - Tennis)
Wild Gunman(Light Gun Shooter)
Wrecking Crew(Action-Puzzle)

Now, with Nintendo's next system, they should try to follow that pattern. Launch with at least 15-20 games. Have at least one Platformer(Mario), one shooter(FPS, and have an online option), one or two racers, An Action-Adventure title(Like Kid Icarus or something new), two role-playing games(Preferably a new game and maybe an Earthbound sequel), at least one sports game for each major sport(Football, Baseball, Golf, Boxing, Tennis, Basketball, Volleyball, Hockey), and several "Quirky" titles that offer new gameplay experiences(Like a Pikmin or a Wario Ware Inc.).

That would be about 17 games to launch with - and these are only first-party games. I know these days, Nintendo has trouble getting one game out in stores, let alone 17. But if they really put a lot of effort into launching a brand new system, I don't see why they couldn't.

Obviously, Nintendo would also have to keep 3rd party support going in order to keep interest in the system. But I also think a successful launch sets an important precedence for the future of any console.

 

[SantaC]

Retro is Nintendo and 1st party, some people doesn't seem to understand that. There is no difference between them and EAD other than the locations.

Back on topic, people seem to forget that Nintendo still make high quality games even though it's the not the same quality as in the past.

 

[human5892]

Some of Nintendo's sequels to their usual franchises have definitely fallen short this generation (Super Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Mario Kart, 1080), so I would agree in that respect. However, overall the company is still one of the most high-quality developers out there, with games like Pikmin 1 and 2, Paper Mario 2, Advance Wars 1 + 2, Fire Emblem, Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat, etc. standing as proof.

If your statement was, "In your opinion has EAD 'lost it' a bit this generation?" I would say yes, unquestionably.

 

[ge-man]

I given up on the launch thing for Nintendo. If they had a launch like that NES one then 3rd parties would cry foul. But, if they try to do the converse like they did with DS in North America, consumers will cry foul.

 

[Tarazet]

Remember, Iwata wants more games and shorter games out of Nintendo. It has shown in their recent releases.

And this is why the Gamecube is best experienced with an unlimited-rental system.

 

[GDGF]

I don't think they've lost it. They've slacked off a bit (and I am pretty pissed that Super Mario Sunshine couldn't touch Mario 64, and that Nintendo handed off Starfox Assault to Namco) but all and all I am still very happy with them. I wanted online this gen, and they didn't deliver, unfortunately. I'm going to blame alot of that on this being a transition period between what Yamauchi built and what Iwata plans on building. I'm very excited to see what Iwata plans on doing with the company, and I'm pretty certain we'll get some form of kooky Nintendo online when Revolution hits. I'm still very excited for the future.

 

[masud]

You guys are slacking this thread needs more dumbass pictures.

 

[Hero]

Not in the UK. Sonic Heroes has been on the top 40 for every week since it was released. And Sonic Mega Collection Plus was number 1 last week (taking down NFSU2!).

I thought that Sonic Heroes being in the top 40 every week for a year was the combination of all three platforms. Not positive, but still. Anyway, the market in the US is larger than the UK anyway.

What? Have you looked at the amount and overall quality of Sony's own games for the PS2? I am pretty impressed with Sony's line-up this generation (didn't really follow them last gen) and I'm really disappointed about Nintendo's GameCube line-up... Saying Sony isn't even close is unfair I think.

And for a first generation for Microsoft, having Halo and Halo 2 each selling more than the best-selling GameCube game (in US at least) is very impressive as well. Other than that, they have had a decent amount of other quality first party releases, although sales haven't been all that yet.

Yes, Sony has improved a lot this generation, but they're still far behind Nintendo. You're overlooking the fact that I said 'Nintendo' and not 'Nintendo Gamecube.' If you take the games they've released on Gamecube and Game Boy Advance, it's not even close.

In regards with Halo and Halo 2, it's just as easy to say that Microsoft is lucky for having bought Bungie when they did. The first Halo made the system, and I don't think anyone would argue that if it weren't for that title, the Xbox would have died out by now. But it's a double-edged sword as well. What other first party title of Microsoft's (on the Xbox) have had major success? The other launch games did merely because they were launch, but anything since then has been a flop.

Yes Sonic on PS2 has been selling wonderfully in Europe. American Gamecube owners tend to over look what only sells in other countires unless it is Japan. Actually, Sega hasn't done that well on Gamecube in Japan. So just becuase it seems Sega sells the best on Gamecube in America, doesn't mean that Sega's games always sells the best on Gamecube in other counteies.

You have Sonic numbers for Europe? Then by all means, please share it.

And Sonic's performance on the GCN was relatively similar to his performance on the DC, IIRC.

The North American market is the largest, or at least the largest one that we can obtain sales data for. As shown before, the top Sega titles in Japan are mostly on PS2, but with total sales of under 500K. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle sold one million copies in North America. Not to mention that SADX, SMC, and SH are all about 500K or more. It's pretty clear that Sonic's home is the Gamecube camp.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

The only thing Nintendo has lost is their image.

BAM!

-NES had good image 'cos it was the only thing there (no real competition)
-SNES had competition, but had good image 'cos it ended up being the "winner" by the end of the generation...BUT...Sega focussed on "hurting" Nintendo's image by showing how family friendly they were by introducing a more "hip" Sonic, punked out advertising, attracting more mainstream with sports and of course the whole Mortal Kombat blood thing...plus Sega did more "contraversial" stuff which Nintendo wouldn't touch
-N64 was "cool" but Sega's strategy of breaking down Nintendo's image was picked up by the more capable Sony...on top of that Nintendo made some horrid mistakes basically scaring third parties away and Sony used that and thier whole Hollywoodization approach to REALLY attract the mainstream into gaming in a way only a mainstream hip company could...Sony using FMV in their commersials killed Nintendo's advertising program...to make matters worse for Nintendo's image was the fact that the biggest thing Nintendo had at the time was PokeMon...a "kiddy" riddled enterprize that became bigger than the Nintendo name itself
-GCN was a disaster 'cos Nintendo totally ignored the MS threat...the FPS, Star Wars, RARE, etc. fans that were on N64 now migrated to X-BOX...people were expecting Nintendo to "wake up" when the "Dolphin" project was announced, but when the project was finally unveiled alot of those people were dissappointed in the toy-like controller, the smaller media format, no DVD and of course the purple lil' shell design (I mean how can you advertise that next to two hulking, powerful looking dark monsters???)...then MS came in with the X-BOX announcement at the perfect time scooping those dissappointed fans right up...to make matters worse Nintendo later unveiled the "last hope" Zelda to the mainstream Nintendo fan as the cel shaded "kiddy" Zelda instead (I like WW, but this hurt Nintendo's image at the worst time)...it's so hard for the press, the mainstream, game makers, retailers and even hardcore gamers to take a silly lil' purple cube seriously...Nintendo needed to show their seriousness...not silliness and the problem is no matter what they do they're STUCK with this image 'cos they can't magically change the system's design at this point

Image image image...Nintendo is still profitable, Nintendo is still satisfying many gamers, Nintendo is still alive...it's just they're seen as "dead" to people who think imae means everything. People are saying thier games suck now, but they wouldn't be saying that if the game sales were "up to snuff" like they were in the N64 days. Really, wether a game is cool to you or not is OPINION...but when opinions are backed up by lower sales then suddenly opinion means more than it should...which is sad. But does a game HAVE to have good sales to be good? Does the system have to be #1 to be good??? Nintendo is like the NeO*GeO or TurboGraffix now, but I don't remember anyone ever dogging SNK or NEC as much as they blast Nintendo!

 

[Bristow]

^^--Great post and I agree.

People care more about image and sales than they do the actual quality of the games. Nintendo haven't lost a step at all. TWW was a big dissapointment for me, but just about everything else has been typical, top shelf, Nintendo. I'll continue to support them for aslong as they remain in the business.

 

[SA-X]

I miss Rare, Nintendo themselves are doing fine though. I just wish they would revive some of their old forgotten franchises and/or make new ones.

 

[monkeyrun]

I do believe Nintendo thinks they know better than their customers. I'm not even sure they know who their customers ARE. If you say you are trying to appeal to everyone, appeal to everyone. Stop trying to dictate peoples tastes. The whole self involved Nintendo innovation needs to go.

and you will be playing the same thing for a long long time, generic FPS, GTA clones, EA sports games ....

I don't understand why people gets mad at nintendo trying wacky new stuff. Just face it, Nintendo was never the company you guys when them to be now. There was never any "mature" games from nintendo. It's not like Zelda turned kiddy over night, and Mario turned into a big fat plumber in Mario sunshine. It's just the art style didn't bother you that much when the character was created with 32X32 pixels.

Nintendo never lot 'it' if you are talking about creating quality game, but they did lost 3rd party support during the N64 era if that's what you mean.

 

[wazoo]

BAM
Image image image...Nintendo is still profitable, Nintendo is still satisfying many gamers, Nintendo is still alive...it's just they're seen as "dead" to people who think imae means everything. People are saying thier games suck now, but they wouldn't be saying that if the game sales were "up to snuff" like they were in the N64 days. Really, wether a game is cool to you or not is OPINION...but when opinions are backed up by lower sales then suddenly opinion means more than it should...which is sad. But does a game HAVE to have good sales to be good? Does the system have to be #1 to be good??? Nintendo is like the NeO*GeO or TurboGraffix now, but I don't remember anyone ever dogging SNK or NEC as much as they blast Nintendo!

So true. Fanboys does not want good games. They want games that crush the competition sales wise and they want to follow the leader.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

In my opinion Nintendo has been struggling with its quality mantra. I think the biggest disappointments were Super Mario Sunshine, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, and Mario Kart: Double Dash. These are three of Nintendo's biggest IPs and crucial to any substantial market penetration. I think right now if you were to take a poll as to what were the top five Nintendo GameCube games, the landslide of Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 would tower over the distant and unpredictable 3-5 slots.

Super Mario Sunshine was a disaster. Please don't get me wrong, I am well aware that it is still considered one of the top 3D platformers of this generation. The problem is that we are talking about Super Mario 64-2. This is the sequel that Nintendo chose not to launch with in order to ensure development time and deliver a quality product. This was the sequel to the game that epitomized how a 3D game should be done. This was the franchise that has made Nintendo the great successful company it is today. It just didn't deliver the excitement and marvel that all of the Mario titles have delivered before.

Now The Legend of Zelda was different. Here you have a game that was a labor of love from the designers of Nintendo. The technology was great, the art was great, and the design was good. What was the major problem? Nintendo took a gamble on a franchise that didn't need a gamble. Nintendo gave a facelift to a game that made every Zelda fan cry tears of joy. You present someone with what they always wanted, and then you do a complete 180* and show them something new. That was a horrible decision by Nintendo. It is like presenting someone with a nice juicy steak and then taking away the plate before a bite is taken, and replacing it with an exotic fried squid. Now the squid may be delicious and all? Well you get the point.

Mario Kart: Double Dash. It might as well have come out in 1997. Nintendo really didn't add enough content to this game. It felt empty.. missing something..

There has been an abundance of canceled and unreleased games from Nintendo as well. Maybe I wouldn't be so disappointed about Mario Sunshine if I was playing Roll-O-Rama and Nintendo Puzzle Collection right now.

Back to the main question. Has Nintendo lost it? I have to admit that I am impressed with the games released in 2004. Pikmin 2, The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat and Band Brothers have really impressed me. The main reason being Nintendo is finally mixing innovation, content, and presentation together.

We will see what E3 shows us.

 

[ourumov]

We can say the GC rocks...but this time is not because Nintendo but other companies. I completelly agree with Drohne, they seem uncapable of pushing high quality titles with the ease it was in the SNES/64 eras.
Only LM, Jungle Beat and Pikmin feel like true Nintendo games...All the others can be easily forgotten IMO.

 

[SantaC]

In my opinion Nintendo has been struggling with its quality mantra. I think the biggest disappointments were Super Mario Sunshine, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, and Mario Kart: Double Dash. These are three of Nintendo's biggest IPs and crucial to any substantial market penetration. I think right now if you were to take a poll as to what were the top five Nintendo GameCube games, the landslide of Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 would tower over the distant and unpredictable 3-5 slots.

Super Mario Sunshine was a disaster. Please don't get me wrong, I am well aware that it is still considered one of the top 3D platformers of this generation. The problem is that we are talking about Super Mario 64-2. This is the sequel that Nintendo chose not to launch with in order to ensure development time and deliver a quality product. This was the sequel to the game that epitomized how a 3D game should be done. This was the franchise that has made Nintendo the great successful company it is today. It just didn't deliver the excitement and marvel that all of the Mario titles have delivered before.

Now The Legend of Zelda was different. Here you have a game that was a labor of love from the designers of Nintendo. The technology was great, the art was great, and the design was good. What was the major problem? Nintendo took a gamble on a franchise that didn't need a gamble. Nintendo gave a facelift to a game that made every Zelda fan cry tears of joy. You present someone with what they always wanted, and then you do a complete 180* and show them something new. That was a horrible decision by Nintendo. It is like presenting someone with a nice juicy steak and then taking away the plate before a bite is taken, and replacing it with an exotic fried squid. Now the squid may be delicious and all? Well you get the point.

Mario Kart: Double Dash. It might as well have come out in 1997. Nintendo really didn't add enough content to this game. It felt empty.. missing something..

There has been an abundance of canceled and unreleased games from Nintendo as well. Maybe I wouldn't be so disappointed about Mario Sunshine if I was playing Roll-O-Rama and Nintendo Puzzle Collection right now.

Back to the main question. Has Nintendo lost it? I have to admit that I am impressed with the games released in 2004. Pikmin 2, The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat and Band Brothers have really impressed me. The main reason being Nintendo is finally mixing innovation, content, and presentation together.

We will see what E3 shows us.

Very good post ninja. Great points as well. Let me ask you, why are Nintendo so secret with the new Zelda? Past Zelda games (including oot and ww) had screenshot updates more times than once in a year.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Shikamaru Ninja, that's pretty much exactly how I feel.

I've stayed out of this thread because I didn't really want to feed it.... Nintendo haters are, after all, going to fill it with crap eventually... but that's pretty spot on. I can see where Nintendo missed the mark on those other games, especially in terms of marketability, even if they are great games. And those last few games you mentioned are the ones I consider to be Nintendos recent gems too.

I'm really excited about what Nintendo's going to offer in the future. The new Tokyo studio has put out one small game and I'm in love with it. The Nintendo DS has so much potential - I am absolutely blown away by seeing the idea go from being rediculed on the internet, to it actually working pretty well in my hands. So I'm looking foreward to unique games for this too. And when E3 comes, we get to see what Revolution brings.

I'm as concerned as anyone else... but I'm also very, very excited.

If Nintendo didn't do the things that Nintendo does, who would? And I don't mean that to sound like I'm overstating their importance.. but if Nintendo weren't around, there'd be less colour to the world of games IMO. A little less fun too.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Well Wind Waker went missing from when it was first shown (Space World) to the E3 before it came out.

I seem to remember that year, around February time, Nintendo did a tour showing off Mario, Metroid and...I can't remember (Kirby?) to journalists. And we got screens then of those games, but still no Zelda. Though I believe the reason was the huge outcry about the new look and Nintendo didn't want to show the game again until people could play it and see what it was all about.

Who knows what the reason is this time. They're just stingy bastards.

 

[methodman]

Yeah, I've noticed that too. I think Nintendo is falling into its old habits of not releasing any information for magazines to publish. When was the last time you saw a EGM cover with only a nintendo character on it? Zelda: WW didn't really recieve any coverage whatsoever from EGM till it was released, and it got very high scores. Maybe this is just because EGM doesn't put in any effort of trying to find pictures and information about Nintendo games, but I have noticed this about many-a-Nintendo game. Pikmin 2? No Coverage. Metroid Prime 1/2? Not really any major coverage. The only reason I'm mainly talking about EGM is because EGM is the best-selling Video Game Magazine out there (even though it's not the best).

Even Resident Evil 4 didn't get major coverage... And it was one of the best games released in the last year (IMO the best game of the generation). But this was because EGM didn't want information on it. How is the mainstream gamer going to see what an awesome game this is if EGM doesn't go out and get some information about it? They only had a two page review about a game that exceeded everyones expectations. They seem to have 4 page Reviews for games we already knew were going to be awesome (Halo 2, GTA-SA, Metroid Prime 2? not too sure about the last one).

Seems to me as if the mainstream gamer isn't getting enough Nintendo games put into their brain as a "MUST BUY", and this is not Nintendo's fault. Nintendo seems to be trying very hard with the media (I've seen many commercials about Metroid Prime, Zelda, Paper Mario and many others, especially GBA games) during prime positions. Sometimes, I feel that the media doesn't push hard enough for these crucial Screenshots and Previews of games that they should (the media) allow the mainstream gamer to see, and to have them realize that they should go out and buy this game.

In Conclusion, i'm not too sure if Nintendo is at fault here about how Halo 1/2 has sold more than any Nintendo game in the U.S. If gamers don't realize how awesome Zelda: WW is, they won't go out to buy it (because they probably think it's kiddy). If it had seen some more daylight in these magazines, tv shows (don't really know if anyone watches those but...), and on-line, it would've definetely seen more sales. Same with Metroid Prime, Pikmin 1/2 (both are superb games) and ESPECIALLY Resident Evil 4 (no information about this in EGM practically until it came out).

P.S. If the PS2 version of Resident Evil 4 gets more coverage (in any magazine) then the Gamecube version did, I'm going to boycott whoever does it. :lol

 

[SantaC]

Well Wind Waker went missing from when it was first shown (Space World) to the E3 before it came out.

I seem to remember that year, around February time, Nintendo did a tour showing off Mario, Metroid and...I can't remember (Kirby?) to journalists. And we got screens then of those games, but still no Zelda. Though I believe the reason was the huge outcry about the new look and Nintendo didn't want to show the game again until people could play it and see what it was all about.

Who knows what the reason is this time. They're just stingy bastards.

yeah the other games didn't get a lot of coverage either, but the new Zelda definitley takes the cake. The 3 screenshots we got in November wasn't new either.

The reason this time? Well, I guess Nintendo want to hide the hud and the new control input. The hud hasn't been shown yet. I really want to see it. It's annoying that we don't have anything to dicuss about the game. I would love to see new media so a discussion could take form.

 

[FoneBone]

Don't know about RE4, but there would be a lot more press coverage of Nintendo games if they weren't so reticent about giving information...

 

[COCKLES]

N64 and their instance on Carts was the beginning of the end for Nintendo. I loved my SNES - I was a regular Nintendobot once....but it was clear CD-ROM production was the future. They just seemed like luddites trying to hold back the tide - all Miyamoto's bullshit about not being able to realise the worlds of Mario 64 without carts proved to be bollocks.

As for Nintendo fan's insistance on the originality and forward thinking of Nintendo? What innovation? MS gave us XB Live...Sony gave us Eyetoy.....Nintendo are giving us...touching!??! :lol

 

[SantaC]

N64 and their instance on Carts was the beginning of the end for Nintendo. I loved my SNES - I was a regular Nintendobot once....but it was clear CD-ROM production was the future. They just seemed like luddites trying to hold back the tide - all Miyamoto's bullshit about not being able to realise the worlds of Mario 64 without carts proved to be bollocks.

I think he was scared of the loadtimes. But you are right, too bad Nintendo didn't go with CD-Rom.