Support NeoGAF

[Mama Smurf]

Unless "it" is their position as market leader, I don't really see how the choice of carts over CDs has much to do with the topic.

 

[COCKLES]

Well Nintendo dominating the market in total Vader like dominance over galatic rebels like Sega in 80's and then seeing it vanish to a pathetic 3rd place and 'loser' moniker this gen.

I'd say that was losing it.

 

[SantaC]

Well Nintendo dominating the market in total Vader like dominance over galatic rebels like Sega in 80's and then seeing it vanish to a pathetic 3rd place and 'loser' moniker this gen.

I'd say that was losing it.

Everything that has a begining, also has an end.

 

[Speevy]

Nah. Nintendo has just tried to do too much with too little this generation, and their quality has suffered as a result.

 

[bitwise]

Nah. Nintendo has just tried to do too little with too little this generation, and their quality has suffered as a result.

dare i say it? fixed.

 

[Speevy]

dare i say it? fixed.

It was right the first time. Too many franchises given to other developers, and not enough games like Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime, and Pikmin 2 to fill the gaps. Plus classic franchises (Zelda, Mario) and genre standards (1080, Waverace) fell behind the competition.

 

[ourumov]

Speevy...I think you should take a look at what they produced last gen, and in the 16 bit era to realize... THEY HAVEN'T DONE A FUCK.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Well Nintendo dominating the market in total Vader like dominance over galatic rebels like Sega in 80's and then seeing it vanish to a pathetic 3rd place and 'loser' moniker this gen.

I'd say that was losing it.

Well sure, but aren't we talking about the way some of their games are moving to more arcade style gameplay and the new controller options? I couldn't blame the slow of move from carts to CDs for that.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

1080 may have fallen behind competition in terms of marketing and sales, although I still believe avalanche is pure awesomeness.

But Wave Race: BS is the best jet-ski racer out still.

 

[Speevy]

ourumov: Well, we disagree? Yeah, I think that's it.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Does anyone know how many games Nintendo had out on the SNES and N64 in the same amount of time the GC has had so far?

 

[soundwave05]

If you're talking about "it" being the "center" of the game industry, Nintendo really hasn't been that relevant beyond Pokemon since 1998.

They're not the same company post-1998 that they were pre-1998 (some might argue even before this). Losing so much console market share and having their franchises age has worn off a lot of the company's luster.

As far as being one of the top publisher's in video gaming though, they're still up there.

Even their output last year ...

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Paper Mario 2
Pikmin 2
Mario Tennis 2
Made In Wario Touch/Tilt
Zelda: Four Swords
Donkey Konga

etc. Was pretty good, albiet very sequel heavy. Most publisher's only release 2 or 3 good games per year.

 

[Speevy]

Discounting third party and Rare games:

Plat Company Reviews Avg.
Vote Overall
Score Main
Score
1. Metroid Prime GC Nintendo 77 8.8 95.5% 96.5%
2. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker GC Nintendo 79 8.9 94.5% 95.1%
4. Metroid Prime 2: Echoes GC Nintendo 45 8.6 92.6% 92.6%
5. Super Mario Sunshine GC Nintendo 72 8.4 90.1% 92.4%
8. Super Smash Bros. Melee GC Nintendo 63 8.9 90.2% 90.1%
10. Pikmin 2 GC Nintendo 40 8.6 88.9% 89.5%
11. Mario Kart: Double Dash!! GC Nintendo 59 8.7 86.6% 88.9%
12. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door GC Nintendo 43 8.4 87.3% 87.6%
13. Animal Crossing GC Nintendo 58 8.4 87.9% 87.6%
14. Pikmin GC Nintendo 64 8.0 87.0% 86.0%
15. The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures GC Nintendo 45 8.4 84.2% 84.4%
16. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat GC Nintendo 5 8.3 83.5% 84.0%
17. Wave Race: Blue Storm GC Nintendo 54 7.5 82.1% 82.0%
18. Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour GC Nintendo 43 8.1 82.0% 81.8%
19. Mario Power Tennis GC Nintendo 25 8.3 82.3% 81.6%
22. Luigi's Mansion GC Nintendo 65 7.3 79.2% 79.9%
23. WarioWare Inc.: Mega Party Game$ GC Nintendo 43 7.8 77.0% 78.1%
25. Pokemon Colosseum GC Nintendo 33 7.2 74.4% 76.2%
26. 1080 Avalanche GC Nintendo 41 7.4 75.9% 75.9%
34. Kirby Air Ride GC Nintendo 35 6.8 64.7% 64.9%
35. Pokemon Channel GC Nintendo 25 4.8 53.9% 53.9%



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totals: 22




1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time N64 Nintendo 26 8.9 96.6% 98.3%
2. Super Mario 64 N64 Nintendo 19 9.2 95.1% 95.6%
3. GoldenEye 007 N64 Nintendo 23 9.2 95.1% 94.9%
5. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask N64 Nintendo 27 8.7 92.2% 92.8%
7. Wave Race 64 N64 Nintendo 13 8.1 90.9% 91.0%
8. 1080 Snowboarding N64 Nintendo 20 7.9 88.5% 90.6%
9. Star Fox 64 N64 Nintendo 13 8.6 87.6% 89.8%
12. Paper Mario N64 Nintendo 31 8.7 89.1% 88.5%
15. Excitebike 64 N64 Nintendo 27 8.1 86.4% 87.3%
17. Pilotwings 64 N64 Nintendo 7 7.6 84.2% 85.4%
18. F-Zero X N64 Nintendo 16 8.1 86.8% 85.3%
19. Mario Golf N64 Nintendo 9 8.4 84.4% 85.1%
20. Mario Tennis N64 Nintendo 13 8.6 87.3% 85.1%
23. Mario Kart 64 N64 Nintendo 15 8.6 83.5% 83.5%
24. Pokemon Puzzle League N64 Nintendo 13 7.5 83.2% 83.3%
25. Super Smash Bros. N64 Nintendo 15 8.6 80.0% 81.9%
26. The New Tetris N64 Nintendo 5 7.9 82.4% 79.8%
28. Pokemon Snap N64 Nintendo 26 6.5 78.7% 78.6%
30. Pokemon Stadium N64 Nintendo 25 6.7 76.8% 77.2%
33. Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards N64 Nintendo 20 7.5 73.8% 76.1%
38. Pokemon Stadium 2 N64 Nintendo 19 6.5 75.5% 73.9%
44. Dr. Mario 64 N64 Nintendo 11 7.4 70.1% 69.1%
48. Hey You, Pikachu! N64 Nintendo 17 4.1 57.0% 58.0%
49. Yoshi's Story N64 Nintendo 5 6.5 64.8% 55.8%

Total: 24

 

[Speevy]

Most publisher's only release 2 or 3 good games per year.

Most publishers don't release any good games in a given year.

 

[COCKLES]

Just scan through that lists and you see the big Nintendo problem. They seem uttly unable to create new exciting non-niche franchises that appeall to everyone that don't include the words Mario-Zelda-Metroid-Pokemon.

 

[soundwave05]

Most publishers don't release any good games in a given year.

Most big publisher's I should say.

 

[soundwave05]

Just scan through that lists and you see the big Nintendo problem. They seem uttly unable to create new exciting non-niche franchises that appeall to everyone that don't include the words Mario-Zelda-Metroid-Pokemon.

Well I think the problem is they're a victim of their own success here. The company can clearly come up with new ideas/new game engines, but it seems like their sales division is unwilling to greenlight too many games that don't use Nintendo's back catalog of proven character properties (because Nintendo has built up so many successful ones over the years).

Nintendo has so many character properties that they have to farm many of them out (Star Fox, F-Zero, etc.) these days.

Its easier for a company like Sega to not make a sequel to Space Harrier or something, because that game was never that popular to begin with.

But yeah in the end I agree. They needed to diversify badly a long time ago.

 

[ourumov]

Sure that looking at the numbers will provide similar results...but I am also talking about quality.


Star Fox 64
Mario 64
Zelda MM
Zelda OOT
Super Smash Bros
Paper Mario
Mario kart
F-Zero X
Wave Race 64

In which cases the GC ones are better ?

 

[Speevy]

Sure that looking at the numbers will provide similar results...but I am also talking about quality.


Star Fox 64
Mario 64
Zelda MM
Zelda OOT
Super Smash Bros
Paper Mario
Mario kart
F-Zero X
Wave Race 64

In which cases the GC ones are better ?

Well, Blue Storm is probably as good as WR64, PM2 is definitely better than its predecessor, F-Zero GX is so much better than F-Zero X it's not even funny, it's hardly even possible for Wind Waker to be deemed "better" than OoT without winning another AIAS award, Mario Kart sucks on both systems, Starfox wasn't handled by Nintendo, Smash Brothers Melee > its prequel, and Super Mario Sunshine is underrated but still inferior to Mrario 64. One game.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Sure that looking at the numbers will provide similar results...but I am also talking about quality.


Star Fox 64
Mario 64
Zelda MM
Zelda OOT
Super Smash Bros
Paper Mario
Mario kart
F-Zero X
Wave Race 64

In which cases the GC ones are better ?

Star Fox 64 - N64
Mario 64 - N64
Zelda MM - N64
Zelda OOT - N64
Super Smash Bros - GC
Paper Mario - GC (debateable)
Mario kart - Take your pick
F-Zero X - N64 for me, though others would say GC
Wave Race 64 - N64

Pretty sad. Though Wave Race, Star Fox and F-Zero were all made by different teams.

 

[ge-man]

Well I think the problem is they're a victim of their own success here. The company can clearly come up with new ideas/new game engines, but it seems like their sales division is unwilling to greenlight too many games that don't use Nintendo's back catalog of proven character properties (because Nintendo has built up so many successful ones over the years).

Its easier for a company like Sega to not make a sequel to Space Harrier or something, because that game was never that popular to begin with.

But yeah in the end I agree. They needed to diversify badly a long time ago.

Furthermore, some of their new ideas haven't lit a lot of fires. People keep forgetting that Nintendo also released Animal Crossing, ED and Pikmin on top of localizing a few things that have remained in Japan (FE and Custom Robo.)

I thought Pikmin 2 was one of the best games last year, but it seemed liked nobody cared and discussions about Nintendo went back to this idea of them not doing anything new. I think Nintendo's problem is more of matter of tastes and less about quality--if they had their equivalent to Halo or GTA the bitching would drop way down.

 

[soundwave05]

Sure that looking at the numbers will provide similar results...but I am also talking about quality.


Star Fox 64
Mario 64
Zelda MM
Zelda OOT
Super Smash Bros
Paper Mario
Mario kart
F-Zero X
Wave Race 64

In which cases the GC ones are better ?

My opinion

Star Fox 64 >> Star Fox Assualt
Mario 64 >>> Mario Sunshine
Zelda MM ? Zelda Reborn
Zelda OOT > Zelda TWW
Super Smash Bros << Smash Bros. Melee
Paper Mario = Paper Mario 2
Mario kart 64 > Mario Kart: DD
F-Zero X = F-Zero GX
Wave Race 64 > Wave Race BS
1080 > 1080 Avalanche

and just for fun

GoldenEye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geist

I think Zelda Reborn will be better than Majora's Mask though.

 

[Speevy]

Pikmin 2 was a brilliant, brilliant game, by any measure.

 

[soundwave05]

The problem I had with Pikmin is stylistically its exactly what you'd expect from Nintendo.

That's probably a big reason why the franchise hasn't really become as big as Nintendo had hoped, even though its an original franchise its still very much the "Nintendo style" so people don't consider it to be something new (ditto for Animal Crossing).

The name "Pikmin" even sounds like some type of Pokemon.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Except AC sold incredibly well.

And Pikmin 2 wasn't a brilliant, brilliant game by my measure at least. Just don't "get" the series I guess.

 

[Speevy]

Quality-wise, it's everything Mario and Zelda have not been this generation.

Long, pleasing to the eye, full of variety, challenging, and containing a good multiplayer mode.

 

[ge-man]

Judging by some of the responses, I think my point really does stand. Nintendo has a style and for many it's tiresome, regardless of the quality.

 

[Speevy]

So what? EA doesn't have a style at all and millions of people buy their games.

 

[soundwave05]

So what? EA doesn't have a style at all and millions of people buy their games.

Actually EA should be given credit for that in a sense.

They used to be almost a sports-only company, but now people who don't even like sports games buy a lot of EA stuff thanks to The Sims and stuff like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Medal of Honor, etc.

Nintendo could learn something from that, in terms of having different brands which can appeal to different audiences instead of trying to win over everyone with one type of style.

 

[ge-man]

So what? EA doesn't have a style at all and millions of people buy their games.

I understand that, but that's not the point. Nintendo style has become a doubled edge sword for many people. Companies like EA don't have an image issue.

 

[Bristow]

So what? EA doesn't have a style at all and millions of people buy their games.

EA blow shit up and have 'cool' music in their games. +sales

 

[Hero]

The GBA and GCN generation has given North American gamers these new franchises:

Fire Emblem
Advance Wars
Wario Ware Inc.
Pikmin
LoZ: Four Swords
Custom Robo
Cubivore
Animal Crossing
Eternal Darkness
Wario World
Donkey Konga
Jungle Beat
Geist ( when it's released, obviously )

That's pretty impressive when you add on the staple franchises of Super Smash Bros. , Mario Kart Mario Party, Mario Tennis, F-Zero, Star Fox, Pokemon, Super Mario, Legend of Zelda, Metroid, etc.

Not to mention they went to third parties and had Final Fantasy, Soul Calibur, Sonic, Metal Gear Solid, and Resident Evil added to the lineup.

All of this should've had incredible success for the Gamecube, don't you think?

What Nintendo needs to do for Revolution is start out strong, spend some of that treasure chest funds of theirs into advertising and making the system look 'hi-tech.'

In addition to that, I feel that Nintendo REALLY needs a great multiplayer FPS. Halo is the new Goldeneye. They need to get something to combat that, and sadly, MP2E just wasn't a strong contendor.

But hey, I guess attracting people who don't play video games normally is good too, though I think the people who aren't playing video games are too old to anyway.

 

[Any1]

Yes. I think they are trying to force something onto to me with this whole Revolution thing.

A Revolution is needed in there business practices.
I always wondered why Nintendo has the highest liscencing fews when they are dying for third party support.

Also why don't they wait till ppl get sick of the regular controller this release a new method of controlling the action on my tv. What they should really do is really a nice looking powerful machine with a redesigned Gamecube controller. They always act like they are going for the youth when they don't know that the average kid in the US has played GTA for the simple fact that its cool.(to them by the way)

I knew that they use to have the highest liscensing fees, but surely they can't anymore. I would honestly surprised if they didn't have the lowest. Even if they kept their fees comparable to Sony and MS, it would be ridiculous.

I'm not calling you a liar because i don't know if they do or not. I'm just assuming that Ninty isn't arrogant enough to still have the highest liscensing fees while their losing so much market share and in dire need of third party support.

Does anybody else know for sure that Nintendo still charges the most?

 

[Pimpbaa]

People seem to be forgetting that it wasn't nintendo that made the nes and snes era great, it was the strong 3rd party support. Back then it was like tons of great 3rd party titles and once in a blue moon an awesome game from nintendo themselves (usually a sequel to a series that people have been anxiously awaiting for a long time). Now it's like Nintendo shoving out a bunch of half baked games as quickly as possible (diluting their franchises with excessive milking) trying to keep their console afloat. I'm not happy with this either. I would love to see a new nintendo system with good 1st party support and really strong 3rd party just like during the 8 and 16-bit era. But until then, a Nintendo console will never come close to the greatness of the snes and nes.

 

[soundwave05]

I've reccomended games like Pikmin and Animal Crossing to my friends (aged 20-25) and pretty much all of them refuse to play a game with that type of presentation.

And really, I don't think this is some kind of isolated type of incident. A lot of people past the age of 16 or so really won't play a game with that kind of art style.

Mario and Zelda maybe because they have the nostalgia factor.

 

[Mrbob]

Judging by some of the responses, I think my point really does stand. Nintendo has a style and for many it's tiresome, regardless of the quality.

Bingo.

Another problem Nintendo has is an inability to tell a good story in their games. You can nail all the mechanics you want, but without a decent back drop it gets boring to retread similar reasons to why you are doing things in Nintendo games.

I don't give a damn anymore about trying to rescue Princess Peach who has been stolen for the 434532 time.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Nintendo could learn something from that, in terms of having different brands which can appeal to different audiences instead of trying to win over everyone with one type of style.

It's not like they haven't tried. They have had serious sports titles under their development studios. 1080 isn't in Nintendo's style at all, but, while the first one sold really well, the second one didn't at all. Wave Race falls into a similar area. ED wasn't even slightly like typical Nintendo, but again, it didn't sell. I don't think Metroid falls into the same style as most Nintendo games, and while it sells decently, it's not taking off like other games might. I'd really struggle to put Fire Emblem and Mario under the same heading too.

 

[soundwave05]

It's not like they haven't tried. They have had serious sports titles under their development studios. 1080 isn't in Nintendo's style at all, but, while the first one sold really well, the second one didn't at all. Wave Race falls into a similar area. ED wasn't even slightly like typical Nintendo, but again, it didn't sell. I don't think Metroid falls into the same style as most Nintendo games, and while it sells decently, it's not taking off like other games might. I'd really struggle to put Fire Emblem and Mario under the same heading too.

They've been way too inconsistent in "trying".

They'll try once every few years and then go back to their old habits.

I mean really this has been a repeating trend since the late SNES era, when they reneged on the "no blood" rule for Mortal Kombat and then proceeded to bring out Killer Instinct (which today would be like Nintendo coming out with their own type of GTA).

But then always revert backwards. They'll put a toe in the water, but they'll never jump in.

And really, they get the same amount of effort in return from older consumers ... some of them are willing to give Nintendo a glance (Resident Evil 4), but they won't take a plunge on Nintendo anymore.

Its a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Bristow]

Bingo.

Another problem Nintendo has is an inability to tell a good story in their games. You can nail all the mechanics you want, but without a decent back drop it gets boring to retread similar reasons to why you are doing things in Nintendo games.

Some people play games for fun. My personal view is that if I wanted a story, I'd read a book or watch a movie.

 

[Mrbob]

Let me rephrase that:

Along with not being able to tell a good story, Nintendo has a problem with telling a *new* story in their games.

Please don't compare game storylines to literature. That isn't the point. Maybe you like rescuing Princess Peach 100000000 times, or need to save Princess Zelda again but retread storylines within the same franchise gets boring.

 

[soundwave05]

Some people play games for fun. My personal view is that if I wanted a story, I'd read a book or watch a movie.

I'd say you're in the minority though.

Many gamers today don't want just a basic game, they want the flashy presentation and cool factor and movie-like style.

Times have changed.

Even look at GameCube owners, what are the two games on the GCN which have gotten the most press/hype/attention?

Resident Evil 4 and Legend of Zelda Reborn. Both have very strong graphics, slick presentation, and a movie-like scope.

 

[Mama Smurf]

They've been way too inconsistent in "trying".

Have they? With the exception of ED, every game I've listed there has had a sequel.

If you mean Nintendo should make a sim racer, a Tekken style fighting game, serious sports titles, a FF style RPG and a mainstream FPS, just say so.

 

[Deg]

If you mean Nintendo should make a sim racer, a Tekken style fighting game, serious sports titles, a FF style RPG and a mainstream FPS, just say so.

They should if they want people to give a damn about them.

 

[soundwave05]

Have they? With the exception of ED, every game I've listed there has had a sequel.

If you mean Nintendo should make a sim racer, a Tekken style fighting game, serious sports titles, a FF style RPG and a mainstream FPS, just say so.

What I'm saying is they've never set up a division or any type of focused *consistent* pull for older/different consumers.

Where's Nintendo Sports today?

Remember the big push they gave Perfect Dark/Conker's Bad Fur Day?

They do this over and over again. The reason why Sony and Microsoft are successful with this audience is because they give this audience attention every month of the year. Not just once in a while.

They don't have to make Tekken or GTA clones, but it'd be nice if they set aside 3-4 studios and forced them to make games without mascot characters/themes. Then maybe those MTV styled ads and Maxim sponsored celebrity parties might actually mean something. Its really pretty funny that Nintendo will only show Metroid Prime Hunters (a game that isn't even out yet) and Madden NFL on their DS commercials here.

 

[DHGamer]

Against all my instincts of not getting involved in this thread I do have to agree they "lost it"

Before I exlpain let me just say my Cube, DS, SP are sitting next to a pile of 100+ games compared to my PS2 collection of about 70 and Xbox of 40. May those who prejudge keep this this in mind.

Anyways, the way I see it, Nintendo is following the same path as Sega. They simply don't seem to listen to their customers. Nor do they seem to care. Possibly they don't understand their market anymore, I dunno.

Some examples:

Nintendo vs Sega
----------------------
Addons not utilized fully: Network adapter : 32x, sega CD

Game sequels: Talking about revolution and we only have 1 mario and zelda, does gba even have an original Mario platformer yet? : where the hell is the Nights sequel?

Pouring out rehashes or oddball games instead of the sequels people want NOW: Pokemon (which must have more than FF by now) : Billy hatcher? Amazing Island? umm TG for Ninja Gaiden atleast

Forcing ideas down our throats : Connectivity to unlock shit I already paid for in the game : Sega-- can't think of any offense there

Sad Trends: Ads to buy products in games ( pikmin2?, gba ads in most recent cube titles... screw you Tingle! : Giving up on the Dreamcast much to soon.

The icing on the cake is Nintendo let Sony beat them to the punch with online handheld games and quite frankly a bigger launch list than the DS will have in total by March 24th.

Anyone that thinks the DS wasn't launched to get the early jump on Sony is sadly mistaken. Everyday of looking at upcoming BS release dates re-affirms that the DS was not ready for launch with such a lackluster lineup. On top of it, they could easily bolster their titles abroad with Band Brothers, Wario earlier, etc... But, they failed to do that.

For the first time I know my next-gen (including my DS) buying split will not be Nintendo first. It'll be relegated to strictly the gems they choose to publish.

Sadly, I miss the Sega of old. They don't "feel" like the same company, hardware or not. All signs I see point Nintendo down this same road. Yeah.. doom and gloom again. Just remember it's my opinion and my cash I spend on this hobby. Reggie can talk all he wants but until there is actuall change at the company I don't see the situation getting any better.

 

[Deg]

What I'm saying is they've never set up a division or any type of focused *consistent* pull for older/different consumers.

Where's Nintendo Sports today?

Remember the big push they gave Perfect Dark/Conker's Bad Fur Day?

They do this over and over again. The reason why Sony and Microsoft are successful with this audience is because they give this audience attention every month of the year. Not just once in a while.

They don't have to make Tekken or GTA clones, but it'd be nice if they set aside 3-4 studios and forced them to make games without mascot characters/themes. Then maybe those MTV styled ads and Maxim sponsored celebrity parties might actually mean something.

Since when have Nintendo even Perfect Dark and Conker were huge failiures.

 

[Mrbob]

What I'm saying is they've never set up a division or any type of focused *consistent* pull for older/different consumers.

Where's Nintendo Sports today?

Remember the big push they gave Perfect Dark/Conker's Bad Fur Day?

They do this over and over again. The reason why Sony and Microsoft are successful with this audience is because they give this audience attention every month of the year. Not just once in a while.

They don't have to make Tekken or GTA clones, but it'd be nice if they set aside 3-4 studios and forced them to make games without mascot characters/themes. Then maybe those MTV styled ads and Maxim sponsored celebrity parties might actually mean something.

The funny thing is that the PS2 has more kiddy content than the Gamecube. But it isn't perceived that way because there is a ton of content for adult gamers as well. It is an amazingly fine balance. One Nintendo always talks about but Sony has already achieved: variety of games to please almost everyone.

 

[Bristow]

I'd say you're in the minority though.

Many gamers today don't want just a basic game, they want the flashy presentation and cool factor and movie-like style.

Times have changed.

Even look at GameCube owners, what are the two games on the GCN which have gotten the most press/hype/attention?

Resident Evil 4 and Legend of Zelda Reborn. Both have very strong graphics, slick presentation, and a movie-like scope.

I guess that's why I prefer Nintendo over the competition. I don't want to sit through poorly written dialogue in a cliche ridden attempt at a story. I think the only video game I've ever played where the story took precedence over the gameplay is Planescape Torment on the PC. Face it, most video game stories aren't exactly gripping.

However, I agree that I am in the minority and most gamers do want the cinematic approach to their games. I just don't see Nintendo ever going that route with their games and I'm ok with that. They leave that up to the 3rd parties.

I wish Nintendo would just cut out the half ass attempt at stories they have in their games now. An opening cutscene explaining why you are doing what you are about to do is good enough.

 

[soundwave05]

Since when have Nintendo even Perfect Dark and Conker were huge failiures.

Perfect Dark sold over a million copies and was basically Expansion Pak only (really) and was coming out late in the N64's life cycle.

Conker flopped but it came out in 2001 for crying out loud.

Nintendo can't just pull the plug everytime a single game doesn't do well. They have to have some patience, because realistically its going to take 3-4 years of consistent effort/product development/marketing to undo the amount of damage they've done to their brand ... and that would be a pretty optimistic appraisal of their situation I'd say.

You can't do it overnight.

Nintendo wants the big pay day, but they don't want to do their home work, like Sony and Microsoft do, to get it.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Well like I say, Nintendo are trying.

Of those I listed there:

Sim racer: As far as I'm aware they don't have an exclusive on this one.

Tekken style fighting game: Umm...can't think of one.

Serious sports titles: They used to make NBA Courtside and Retro were meant to work on sports. Then EA and Sega brought their titles on board, and they didn't see the need anymore. Then Sega left and...oh oh! But now with that new baseball game, we can see they're brinign things back.

FF style RPG: Baten Kaitos is exclusive and Fire Emblem, while not FF style, is a cool (tactical) RPG. Fuck all people bought BK.

Mainstream FPS: Geist. It might turn out crap, who knows, but they're trying. Metroid Prime isn't exaclty right for this heading, but I think they tried to cover the area with it. Didn't take off.

And of those I haven't listed, we've had a horror game in ED (and RE exclusives), an extreme sports title in 1080, a stealth game in MGS: TTS. None of them sold. What's Nintendo to do? They get these exclusives, most of the time they're good games...and they still don't sell.