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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor
- Thread starter chubigans
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Yeah, I felt bad about this. It's a difficult concept to really sell. You going to give it another shot? Sometimes this works. I've seen some people fall short of the goal, come back later with a new strategy, and succeed.
Yeah we're going to do an IndieGogo starting soon, plus forums, really build our userbase.
I don't *necessarily* recommend this. It depends on the game. I think often times, part of a successful KS is presenting the game in a very controlled way, as to spark imaginations.
Legend of Iya is a game I backed and I admire the creator very much. The demo he released during the campaign, I feel, didn't do him any favors. I don't have stats to back this up, but for me -- The video showed the game in a controlled way and made us imagine playing the game. Then the demo came out, was very rough, and it just deflated the thing. Took away the mystique. It was very unpolished.
There is a lot of Ghost Song to play that is, honestly, pretty polished. It's taken restraint to not spill everything, because I feel if I released what was finished of the game, even though I'm proud of it, it would strip the game of some of its mystique (if there is any, maybe I'm deluded
.
Raonak
Banned
Yeah, that's true, but that's for finished games.
I thought I remembered reading that crowdfunding campaigns with demos have a higher success rate. Which makes sense in my mind, since a demo shows that you have made substantial progress, it goes from a proof of concept to something more substantial. It makes plopping down money a lot safer.
But... I havent done a kickstarter yet, so take mine with a
I like seeing that there is a demo for this reason, but it can also backfire. I was on the fence about backing Legend of Iya, and leaning towards making a pledge, but the demo killed all interest in the title for me.
Preferably, there would be a good amount of hype from the trailer and explanation text. I backed each Chasm, Shovel Knight, Shantae and Double Fine Adventure as soon as their respective trailer videos were finished. It's one of those things where if people aren't immediately hooked, you've probably already lost half your audience.
Perfect case in point.
I think, for a KS, make an appealing prototype and then show it in the best possible light, via video -- Do a trailer, do walkthroughs, and control how it's viewed. The work will speak for itself, and if it looks good, it already proves you've put in substantial work.
Dry up and keep going!
Which basically defeats the point of the whole thing, if you ask me. Having a
proof of concept and the right minded people behind should do. It reads
Kick-starter. Yet people want to have their game fully financed and as such
they crank demos etc. to convince people investing into the whole thing
instead if taking Kick-starter literally - to kick start game / development.
Different story.
If anything, I would do it similar. Am not convinced of a demo either. But a
given take from the demo watched at right angle may work wonders.
Raonak
Banned
A bad/meh demo is a bad thing, avoid at all costs- but I think a GOOD demo can really increase potential audience.
There's a lot of people who don't like/don't care/are burnt out by kickstarter and a demo is a nice way to trojan horse them in
and just generally increase the visibility of the game.
They work quite well for action games, I remember DMC4 and Just Cause 2 being two demos that really worked well on me.
There's a lot of people who don't like/don't care/are burnt out by kickstarter and a demo is a nice way to trojan horse them in
and just generally increase the visibility of the game.
They work quite well for action games, I remember DMC4 and Just Cause 2 being two demos that really worked well on me.
hitsugi
Member
Yup. Legend of Iya's demo was probably the worst thing to happen to its campaign. Completely stopped me from pledging and my god was it bad. I think funding came to a halt for a bit after that came out.
Talking about demos, I spent a few hours tweaking levels and published a new one for my on-and-off project, Quark Storm. I mostly did it out of a sense of duty, since I had something I felt was showable for a while, and I just had to make a few tweaks to the GUI, the player controls for the smarthphone version and some changes to the levels I had already finished.
It's true that people might be put off by a bad demo, but given how nobody knows me, I thought I should take the risk for the chance of spreading the word about me and my games (not having published any games in any platform whatsoever up to now probably doesn't help). I don't know a thing about making a trailer or some other thing that could generate hype, and realizing the people I showed the game to were interested in the premise made me feel like it was the right move, since at least I can do some decent demos rather than some shitty music-less trailer or an awful web page people would probably run away from really fast.
So, here it is:
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-windows.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-mac.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-linux.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm.apk
There is a possible showstopper bug on level 2-2, which is some recurring issue with checkpoints sometimes not registering, meaning the player can get stuck in its death state forever rather than respawning where it should. For now it can only be circunvented by pressing Escape or the "Back" key in Android to bring up the pause menu, selecting "Restart level", and then hoping the checkpoint system doesn't decide to not work once again.
With that out of the way, I'm back to trying to make my joint collaboration work the way it is supposed to, and see if I can make some progress on some other stuff.
By the way, I've recently discovered the Mecanim animation state machine, and let me tell you, it's amazing for not having to handle animation changes and all that in code. Just set some variables whenever the input changes, and the animator takes care of swapping from one animation to the other, based on whichever transition rules you've put in place.
It's true that people might be put off by a bad demo, but given how nobody knows me, I thought I should take the risk for the chance of spreading the word about me and my games (not having published any games in any platform whatsoever up to now probably doesn't help). I don't know a thing about making a trailer or some other thing that could generate hype, and realizing the people I showed the game to were interested in the premise made me feel like it was the right move, since at least I can do some decent demos rather than some shitty music-less trailer or an awful web page people would probably run away from really fast.
So, here it is:
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-windows.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-mac.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm-linux.rar
http://www.julianimp.com.ar/demos/quarkstorm.apk
There is a possible showstopper bug on level 2-2, which is some recurring issue with checkpoints sometimes not registering, meaning the player can get stuck in its death state forever rather than respawning where it should. For now it can only be circunvented by pressing Escape or the "Back" key in Android to bring up the pause menu, selecting "Restart level", and then hoping the checkpoint system doesn't decide to not work once again.
With that out of the way, I'm back to trying to make my joint collaboration work the way it is supposed to, and see if I can make some progress on some other stuff.
By the way, I've recently discovered the Mecanim animation state machine, and let me tell you, it's amazing for not having to handle animation changes and all that in code. Just set some variables whenever the input changes, and the animator takes care of swapping from one animation to the other, based on whichever transition rules you've put in place.
It's a little thing, but I think your trailer took way too long to get going and then didn't show combat in enough detail. I knew what your game was going into it, but someone who didn't might not want to wait around.
So, I have my first "dual" animation...where one model engages in direct physical contact with another. Specifically, it's one dude tackling another dude.
It's nearly impossible to get both actors in the exact positions and orientations required just by timing and whatever, so it looks like I'm going to have to try and get close and then "cheat" the actors into the correct positions right as the animation starts. Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Any tips?
It's nearly impossible to get both actors in the exact positions and orientations required just by timing and whatever, so it looks like I'm going to have to try and get close and then "cheat" the actors into the correct positions right as the animation starts. Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Any tips?
FormallyMegadrive
Member
I really really enjoyed this. I hit the bug you mentioned on 2-2 on Windows, but didn't bother trying to finish. It's a pretty nice prototype and honestly think it's really fun.
SlipperySlope
Banned
sounds good. got any screenshots or video of the gameplay?
Well said and all true. For ready made games a demo may perhaps be well
received if done right. But speaking of a demo for a kickstarter, i.e. a demo
demonstrating the idea resp. the state of development/progress will in all
likelihood not be a 'good' one. Why? Because it's a demo. Making a good demo
somehow defeats the point of the demo esp. while the demo shows an unfinished
or to be made game. To argue with such a demo in pushing the campaign is like
walking on very thin ice. You have to run very fast for the ice not braking,
mind you!
Hey! Did anyone in here participate in last week's Charity Game Jam?
I made this little thing during that week, it was a good challenge!
I made this little thing during that week, it was a good challenge!
show me your skeleton
Member
Well said and all true. For ready made games a demo may perhaps be well
received if done right. But speaking of a demo for a kickstarter, i.e. a demo
demonstrating the idea resp. the state of development/progress will in all
likelihood not be a 'good' one. Why? Because it's a demo. Making a good demo
somehow defeats the point of the demo esp. while the demo shows an unfinished
or to be made game. To argue with such a demo in pushing the campaign is like
walking on very thin ice. You have to run very fast for the ice not braking,
mind you!
i think that the many people, even those in the kickstarter community, are unable to get the first 'bad taste' experience when given the opportunity to play an early demo. lots of threads regarding betas are full of complaints due to the expectations of a feature-complete & bug-free experience.
Yeah, I felt the exact same way about the Iya demo, and I think it did a lot more harm than good. I still really wanted to see it succeed. I went in at the highest tier which was a lot more money than I probably should have spent, but I believed in it.
Raonak
Banned
Well said and all true. For ready made games a demo may perhaps be well
received if done right. But speaking of a demo for a kickstarter, i.e. a demo
demonstrating the idea resp. the state of development/progress will in all
likelihood not be a 'good' one. Why? Because it's a demo. Making a good demo
somehow defeats the point of the demo esp. while the demo shows an unfinished
or to be made game. To argue with such a demo in pushing the campaign is like
walking on very thin ice. You have to run very fast for the ice not braking,
mind you!
Fair enough, I do think, for an unknown developer, I sure as hell would be a lot more confident backing a game if it had a demo.
I do think it does depend on your development style. I tend to work vertically, basically having my game playable at a very early stage and working a specific section until it's basically feature complete. Once i've got one area to a nice state, then I start working on the next. and so on.
I did this development style for super pokemon eevee edition, as I finished "chapters" of the game, I released it as a new beta to download. An open development of sorts. I really liked it and having updated playable betas of the game proved successful, in terms of both building up a fanbase and getting continuous feedback.
Im thinking of doing the same for Nax.
It shouldn't be too difficult since the main gameplay systems are already in place(only missing additional weapons, magic and cards) and the game will be level based.
I'm probably gonna do what some other projects have done and is offer beta access as a reward tier. Where you'll have continuous access to the game. As I complete a level, it'll be available to the backers (bi-weekly builds seem like an achievable target)
Hey, I'm currently helping a friend and his company Team Jolly Roger with their first greenlight campaign for their turn based strategy game Interplantery and would love to forward any helpful tips on the Greenlight procedure and hopefully some data and statistics on those games that got through (vote percentage, time etc.).
Link to the Greenlight, I'm sure the guys would appreciate any votes and feedback on the game. They're also running an alpha test so if you want to try to the game they've got more info on twitter and their greenlight page.
I'm hoping they get enough coverage and publicity to get the game through since it's really an interesting concept (the gameplay itself is slightly defcon-esque with some additional features) and being featured on RPS itself was really a great thing.
Also, how many here are participating in the Ludum Dare next week? I've put a rather large 6 or 7 man team for the Jam and we'll probably be working with Unity and do something in 3D.
Link to the Greenlight, I'm sure the guys would appreciate any votes and feedback on the game. They're also running an alpha test so if you want to try to the game they've got more info on twitter and their greenlight page.
I'm hoping they get enough coverage and publicity to get the game through since it's really an interesting concept (the gameplay itself is slightly defcon-esque with some additional features) and being featured on RPS itself was really a great thing.
Also, how many here are participating in the Ludum Dare next week? I've put a rather large 6 or 7 man team for the Jam and we'll probably be working with Unity and do something in 3D.
AusRoachman
Member
Game looks awesome, I love anything that involves space and solar systems.
SlipperySlope
Banned
Thanks! Not yet but hopefully soon.
Pasta_Soup
Member
Hey guys - we just released our first game demo of our working title "Olympia Rising". It's an arcade-adventure game starring a young woman trying to climb out of the Underworld. We built the game using ImpactJS.
Feel free to play the demo online at http://or.paleozoic.com/. Any questions, comments, feedback, etc. is greatly appreciated - just type it up in the little box below the game and press send!
There are still some bugs and it's far from perfect, but we're trying to get a feel of what people think before we invest more time and money into expanding the project.
Feel free to play the demo online at http://or.paleozoic.com/. Any questions, comments, feedback, etc. is greatly appreciated - just type it up in the little box below the game and press send!
There are still some bugs and it's far from perfect, but we're trying to get a feel of what people think before we invest more time and money into expanding the project.
Couple of weeks ago I posted about a project I was working on but things went a bit nuts, to much feature creep. Lost all interest in working on it and decided to start with something fresh.
It's a 2 to 4 player deathmatch game most similar/comparable to Bomberman. Held a couple of playtests and the response so far has been great. Easy to pick up, hectic and noticed that players started to develop new tactics and skills after awhile. Gameplay is simple and want to keep it that way, you can shoot and stun someone, drop a bomb and pickup powerups.
I uploaded a small clip yesterday that showcases new graphics/level and sounds, sound design is totally not my thing but I manage doing it alone so far. Want someone else to jump in later and help me with that
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cEsCuZ4Ij8
Old gameplay clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXUJU04ioc
Let me know if this gif is ok, it's 3 mb so Not sure what is ok in that department
It's a 2 to 4 player deathmatch game most similar/comparable to Bomberman. Held a couple of playtests and the response so far has been great. Easy to pick up, hectic and noticed that players started to develop new tactics and skills after awhile. Gameplay is simple and want to keep it that way, you can shoot and stun someone, drop a bomb and pickup powerups.
I uploaded a small clip yesterday that showcases new graphics/level and sounds, sound design is totally not my thing but I manage doing it alone so far. Want someone else to jump in later and help me with that
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cEsCuZ4Ij8
Old gameplay clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXUJU04ioc
Let me know if this gif is ok, it's 3 mb so
Not sure what is ok in that department Quality stuff so far. Got stuck in the first room though. Kept messing up as the platform was rising.
Also I'm not sure if it was a bug, but when you die and go back to the previous room, you can only exit out of the left. I went right the first time but afterwards the gate wouldn't come up on that side.
Couple of weeks ago I posted about a project I was working on but things went a bit nuts, to much feature creep. Lost all interest in working on it and decided to start with something fresh.
It's a 2 to 4 player deathmatch game most similar/comparable to Bomberman. Held a couple of playtests and the response so far has been great. Easy to pick up, hectic and noticed that players started to develop new tactics and skills after awhile. Gameplay is simple and want to keep it that way, you can shoot and stun someone, drop a bomb and pickup powerups.
I uploaded a small clip yesterday that showcases new graphics/level and sounds, sound design is totally not my thing but I manage doing it alone so far. Want someone else to jump in later and help me with that
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cEsCuZ4Ij8
Old gameplay clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXUJU04ioc
Let me know if this gif is ok, it's 3 mb so
This looks like my sort of game. Loving the art style in the more recent clip.
Hey, this is pretty great! I only gave it two tries, because I'm at work, but I couldn't get past the first challenge (where you need 51 coins or whatever to pass). It feels a little unfair that you have no idea how much time you have left. In my first run, I assumed that the level would go on until I had reached the coin amount, without a predefined ending. I had 32 coins when I died. In my second run, I still had a hard time figuring out when the end was going to come, and died with 39 coins. I'm assuming I'd continue to get better with practice, but not everyone enjoys such spectacular failure right from the outset.
Another unfair thing was killing an enemy and not getting the coin from it, usually because that coin had fallen by the wayside. This can be fair under the right circumstances, but feeling cheated of that reward right at the beginning of the game, especially in combination with the ambiguous challenge ending, doesn't come across as fair.
But the artwork and color choices are great, the movement feels fluid where it needs to and solid otherwise. The basis for a great game is definitely there.
Pasta_Soup
Member
@PhiLonius
Thanks! We've been getting feedback relating to the difficulty being too high. It's a hard thing to measure when you've been playtesting for 2 months, lol. Currently you're supposed to leave through the left gate to restart the level. But making it the right gate as you've suggested is definitely a better idea.
@abe_bly
Thanks for checking it out! Yeah, difficulty seems to be a reoccurring issue with our feedback so far. The timer is basically the rising acid, but some type of visual timer or indicator is a great idea so the player knows how close the acid is from reaching the top.
The falling coins was something we were discussing when developing it. We kinda liked the idea of them falling onto lower platforms (and even the elevator) and the player having to jump down and quickly grab them, but maybe having them float where they are earned is a better idea.
Thanks again for the feedback!
Thanks! We've been getting feedback relating to the difficulty being too high. It's a hard thing to measure when you've been playtesting for 2 months, lol. Currently you're supposed to leave through the left gate to restart the level. But making it the right gate as you've suggested is definitely a better idea.
@abe_bly
Thanks for checking it out! Yeah, difficulty seems to be a reoccurring issue with our feedback so far. The timer is basically the rising acid, but some type of visual timer or indicator is a great idea so the player knows how close the acid is from reaching the top.
The falling coins was something we were discussing when developing it. We kinda liked the idea of them falling onto lower platforms (and even the elevator) and the player having to jump down and quickly grab them, but maybe having them float where they are earned is a better idea.
Thanks again for the feedback!
Yeah, definitely make the goal clearer, like abe_ly mentioned. Also, because the first stage is like a tutorial level, I think it should be a little easier. I think it'd be a good idea to make the floating tutorial messages not optional as well. People might be too busy trying to survive and not even get a chance to read them, causing them to completely miss key features of the game.
But everything else about it is pretty rad. Love the art.
hitsugi
Member
This is impressive, although I feel the goal of coins to collect is a bit steep (I collected 47 and felt good about that... but that was not nearly enough). That being said, I also didn't put much time into it (10 minutes)
...I think i need to look into using Impact. Some really cool stuff.
Cool to hear man, thanks! Got some other nice idea's to bring it more to life and the plan is to do that this month
Again I'll say, it can be fair under the right circumstances. Usually, when a game doesn't have a reward automatically be collected, that reward is nonessential or insignificant. In your game, the player already has to go out of her way to fight most of the monsters, so having to take a further step to collect the reward seems punitive. It would be different if coin was used for upgrades and additions rather than a gating mechanism, or if the time crunch was lessened.
When a coin falls down on a lower platform, and the acid is still rising up, it feels like the game is saying that I'm supposed to abandon that reward. It feels like the player is supposed to cut her losses and move on, not try to recover.
Now, if the player is quite familiar with the game and has learned its nuances, then most things it throws at the player can be fair. The difference is in how it's taught to the player. Does the player have a few easier levels or challenges to gradually learn things, usually learning them one at a time, or is everything thrown at the player at once in the hopes that she'll be willing to keep at the game long enough to pick up the nuances and improve in skill?
A lot of early "Nintendo Hard" games used this second technique as a way of dragging out game length or eating quarters, or both. A notable example of a game that did not is the first Super Mario, which tried to teach the player one thing at a time.
It's the designers choice how steep the difficulty curve should be, but a lot of people in today's climate aren't willing to invest in something where it starts out so hard.
Attractive game. Nice controls and graphics.
I hated the music. It didn't match at all with what the rest of the presentation seemed to be about. I realize it may be total placeholder, so take that for what it's worth.
It's definitely a promising demo. I wasn't sure how to use my controller on it, though, in the web version. Maybe if I put on joy2key or something.
Oh man, everytime I come in here it is so full of awesome little gems! Wish I had more time to see it all
Anyway, we are launching our own little baby tonight at midnight GMT.
The official NeoGAF OT is already up and the builds for reviews have been sent.
For all of those, like me, who get lost doing their game and don't know what I am talking about, Detective Case and Clown Bot in Murder in the Hotel Lisbon is a retro 80's PnC adventure. Heres is a GIF, or you can go down to our website.
Anyway, we are launching our own little baby tonight at midnight GMT.
The official NeoGAF OT is already up and the builds for reviews have been sent.
For all of those, like me, who get lost doing their game and don't know what I am talking about, Detective Case and Clown Bot in Murder in the Hotel Lisbon is a retro 80's PnC adventure. Heres is a GIF, or you can go down to our website.
Nice! really liking the music
Pasta_Soup
Member
I want to thank everyone for such immediate feedback. It's incredibly helpful and we plan on applying a large chunk of these suggested changes to our game.
Really excited for this. So much character in the art style.
Really excited for this. So much character in the art style.
Thanks!
Just played your game while we wait for launch time
Looks awesome. Left some feedback as well.
Raonak
Banned
I'm streaming some asset creation for Ghost Song on justin tv. Link
This will have been my first time doing this, but if I turn out to like doing it, it could be a regular thing.
If you want to see the good the bad and the ugly of ghost song asset creation (sausage making can be ugly), stop by. I'll be talking too if anyone has any questions.
This will have been my first time doing this, but if I turn out to like doing it, it could be a regular thing.
If you want to see the good the bad and the ugly of ghost song asset creation (sausage making can be ugly), stop by. I'll be talking too if anyone has any questions.
Feedback, organized by timing when these things occurred to me.
1. It runs very well and feels fluid
2. Sticking to the wall felt a bit weird, but maybe that is just me.
3. The first area is just explanatory text that goes on for a while
4. I saw a spider that I figured was the first enemy, but it wasn't an enemy.
5. Entering a new room, I see a skeleton that I figured was the first enemy, but also wasn't an enemy.
6. I kind of like the music but it does get repetitive quickly
7. Something something you need a certain amount of coins to something...is progressing gated by collecting coins?
8. Ok, first real room - instant death from falling into lava feels harsh for the first room in the game
9. When I made it to the top I went to the left and got trapped. Then I had to suicide and start over.
10. Now I'm warped back to the room with the skeleton, and to exit I go left? But isn't left how to get to the first room? Wait, is this even the second room, or is it some other room that just looks similar?
11. I can shoot a stream of fire by pressed up and B or something...cool.
So basically I think the core gameplay feels very solid but the content feels less solid.
Unity has been updated.
Finally have a 2d tilemap editor going in it. Feels kind of hackish in how I had to put it together though. I hate how they don't explain how to get events from mouse in the scene view while using your custom editor. There is more than one way to do it and both have little to no documentation.
Finally have a 2d tilemap editor going in it. Feels kind of hackish in how I had to put it together though. I hate how they don't explain how to get events from mouse in the scene view while using your custom editor. There is more than one way to do it and both have little to no documentation.
PSA: Multimedia Fusion 2 is now available at the Humble Weekly Sale. If you're interested in it, now's the best time to get it.
Has anyone tried Clickteam Fusion 2.5 yet?
Has anyone tried Clickteam Fusion 2.5 yet?
Hey guys - we just released our first game demo of our working title "Olympia Rising". It's an arcade-adventure game starring a young woman trying to climb out of the Underworld. We built the game using ImpactJS.
Feel free to play the demo online at http://or.paleozoic.com/. Any questions, comments, feedback, etc. is greatly appreciated - just type it up in the little box below the game and press send!
There are still some bugs and it's far from perfect, but we're trying to get a feel of what people think before we invest more time and money into expanding the project.
It looks like she has a beard in the portrait.
Otherwise, looks fantastic.
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