Labombadog
Member
Plan on learning more Java this year. No more excuses.
Good job guys on the development.
Good job guys on the development.
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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor
- Thread starter chubigans
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Ugh, some of the built-in Game Maker Studio tutorials are terrible. Worked on the Breakout one last night, and it's got lots of errors. Code that you type exactly from the tutorial that doesn't do what it says it will, formatting that doesn't line up the way it should, randomly references an Intro Room it never told you to make, etc.
Platy it actually kind of reminds me of the sprite animation in third strike. http://www.zweifuss.ca/elena/elena.htm
Yeah, I hear it's garbage. I would start with 8.1 and do a few tutorials with that one. Almost all the knowledge ports over to Studio.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Odd - I just did the Breakout tutorial and it worked fine. The room creation is a bit off, though.
It works, its fine in itself but I feel it looks "processed". Its easy to see that each frame wasn't drawn like that but rotations and stuff like that were used. It gives some unatural, noisy feeling to me. But it works and its extremely smooth still.
Because it IS processed xD
I'm testing ways to process flash animation in photoshop automaticaly (batch) to make good fast/quality animation in pixel art ... i'm having some problems with lines, but the process is evolving nicely =D
Still trying to fixe those lines and give away as much as weird feel as possible ... but i'm afraid a small pixel per pixel fix will be unavoidable =/
That is like the most positive comentary I could ever got xD
Just because of that, I actualy made this for you
Was made from memory, in 15 minutes and it had the flash limitations .. but still, was made with love =3
rohlfinator
Member
For those interested, Game Maker Studio is a Steam flash deal right now -- 66% off vs. the 50% off you get on the main site.
Crazymoogle
Member
Yeah, it's all better discounted...is there any particular reason to go with Pro over Standard? I see Pro is the only way to get the modules but those still cost extra too..
Because it IS processed xD
I'm testing ways to process flash animation in photoshop automaticaly (batch) to make good fast/quality animation in pixel art ... i'm having some problems with lines, but the process is evolving nicely =D
Still trying to fixe those lines and give away as much as weird feel as possible ... but i'm afraid a small pixel per pixel fix will be unavoidable =/
That is like the most positive comentary I could ever got xD
Just because of that, I actualy made this for you
Was made from memory, in 15 minutes and it had the flash limitations .. but still, was made with love =3
You're doing skeletal animation like they did in the Dishwasher and in Vanillaware games right? That's what it looks like.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I think Pro provides a few additional benefits, but honestly, at that price, it'd be silly NOT to go with Pro.
Crazymoogle
Member
Except that it's twice the price of Standard, so I really think it depends what you want to build...
EDIT: Nonetheless, picked up pro and the HTML5 module. Tempted to get the others too but just too much to put down if you don't use GM a lot
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
At the discount, though, if you were initially considering GM, Pro is the obvious choice. The additions are listed in the chart here YYG.
Fair enough. I would at least fix the jaggy edges at the back of the hair, though. Those are really hurtful to the sprite, to be honest.
And I feel ya. I've gone well over 200 frames on main characters for most stuff I've animated this year.
If you want "good/quality" stuff, take "fast" out of the picture. Animation like this, where you're rotating and scaling the parts without any sort of touch-up, looks awful on pixel-art (just look at what they did with Pokémon Black/White. Ugh...). It's fine for putting down a base (the motion on Raphael is pretty good for an idle animation), but it definitely needs frame by frame touch-up for it to look good.
Was made from memory, in 15 minutes and it had the flash limitations .. but still, was made with love =3
Holy crap this is awesome.
Elena animation is awesome, right ? =D
Too bad some of those have a huge "rotoscoped from 3d model" vibe and were not fine tunned.... but still, Street 3 is one of my favorite pixel arts of all time =3
The flash part is pure this... but i'm trying to make a mix of it and pixel art.... find a middle ground ... maybe even more to the pixel art side
"If Vanillaware made games for the CPS2" vibe xD
I'm still searching for the best combination possible of "fast making" and "good quality" that I can .. I think I can get something better than the resuts I have right now...
At worst case scenario, even making the shapes and making the lines around the shapes after will still be 100 times faster and easier than traditional pixel art
Are you sure about that? I believe all the animation in SF3 was hand animated without the use of models. Art books even show off some of the rough animation.
That said I like what you did with the turtle. I also use a segmented animation system but unfortunately it's not skeletal, nor did I add IK. I'd love to work that way though.
Here is a making of screen if anyone is curious
I'm pretty sure they are ALL hand made ... except most Elena stuff.
There are a considerable amount of frames where the hand suddenly goes into "lego mode" and her feet goes into shoe mode.... wich are things that don't make sense if you are doing things hand made
This one you can see the hand clearly here
and the feet clearly here
Compare with Makoto's feet
Or the delicated way how Remy touches the floor with his fingers
also, this one screams rotoscopy for me
Thanks !
I would love to know more about how you made the animations ! =D
I would guess it is more procedural, right ?
Unfortunatly I don't have a 360, but from what I have played from Dust at a friend's house, I loved what I saw =D
I'm pretty sure they are ALL hand made ... except most Elena stuff.
There are a considerable amount of frames where the hand suddenly goes into "lego mode" and her feet goes into shoe mode.... wich are things that don't make sense if you are doing things hand made
This one you can see the hand clearly here
and the feet clearly here
Compare with Makoto's feet
Or the delicated way how Remy touches the floor with his fingers
also, this one screams rotoscopy for me
Thanks !
I would love to know more about how you made the animations ! =D
I would guess it is more procedural, right ?
Unfortunatly I don't have a 360, but from what I have played from Dust at a friend's house, I loved what I saw =D
Yeah, I admit Elena's animations always lacked the polish of the other characters. Not sure what happened there. It's like the animation is strong, but whoever ended up pixelating it did a bit too much copy/pasting.
I really like seeing your flash timeline. I miss flash, I used to use it a lot about 14 years ago, and haven't touched it since. I'm considering jumping back in though, but have little time.
For my game I animated the main character traditionally, so compositing him was pretty easy (simply a matter of overlaying a special 'refractive' layer of textures). For enemies I did end up segmenting the body parts and working similar to flash. But it was a custom-coded editor, so it lacked many of the niceties of a real animation tool. But it ended up working fine, and was probably faster to calculate in-game since there was no bones or IK to deal with.
I also sort of like how organic segmented animation can look when not adhering to any skeletal structure. It's hard to work with, but you get some easy squash/stretch.
I don't really outline much of this in my postmortem, but there is some animation art there if you are interested: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/180520/postmortem_humble_hearts_dust_.php
Again, thanks for sharing your turtle timeline. I like the final result, especially since I'm seriously considering pixel art for my next title.
My biggest problem with using skeletal or segmented animation is that 9 out of 10 times it looks incredibly flat and lifeless. Segments rarely change perspective and as a result the whole character lacks volume. Vanillaware is one of the few companies that have done it right, if you ask me. I dunno, maybe I'm clinging too much to traditional animation.
It'll be easier, sure, but I still think you will need a frame by frame clean up approach afterwards to really make it look good. Like I said, your Raphael is a great base for a final animation, but using something like that as it is would just make your game end up looking incredibly noisy and unpolished.
It'll be easier, sure, but I still think you will need a frame by frame clean up approach afterwards to really make it look good. Like I said, your Raphael is a great base for a final animation, but using something like that as it is would just make your game end up looking incredibly noisy and unpolished.
As I remember it, Elena was an experiment in using fewer colours, but more frames of animation.
Been working on my game this week. It's going well. I finally have all my character's powers down, all the systems (text box, savng, etc), all my tools for level design. This means I truly am at designing and coding level design ingredients (fun part begins!).
However, I must ask GAF about something. Can you guys tell me if this is too much? (see screenshot). If you don't see what I am asking about (it's a good sign) then tell me. If you think it's however too similar, please tell me too.
I just think its the best way to do it. :/
However, I must ask GAF about something. Can you guys tell me if this is too much? (see screenshot). If you don't see what I am asking about (it's a good sign) then tell me. If you think it's however too similar, please tell me too.
I just think its the best way to do it. :/
You guys are really bumming me out. You're all so awesome, and you're able to actually do stuff.
Here I am, signed up for my final semester at school, and... I haven't really learned anything. Shit happened (as in, half our staff got fired and the rest weren't too busy teaching us how to do stuff; they offloaded us to the engineering peeps, who taught us how to use Inventor and AutoCAD). Sure, I get the whole 'design' thing, because I've been studying that forever. And yeah, I can write fiction better than nearly everyone doing games writing professionally (crazy high assessment? not really; games writers are terrible), and oh, I know how to operate one kind of motion capture software. But what good are skills like that? I actually had a game partially designed and was building it with some fellow students, but someone who didn't like that it wasn't about geriatric Batman sabotaged it.
Bah, sorry for moaning. I want to do stuff, but I don't actually have the skills to do anything, and now the impending threat of my final semester is here, and... I've got nothing to show for it.
What can I do, guys? Anything? Or just jump into a different line of work?
Here I am, signed up for my final semester at school, and... I haven't really learned anything. Shit happened (as in, half our staff got fired and the rest weren't too busy teaching us how to do stuff; they offloaded us to the engineering peeps, who taught us how to use Inventor and AutoCAD). Sure, I get the whole 'design' thing, because I've been studying that forever. And yeah, I can write fiction better than nearly everyone doing games writing professionally (crazy high assessment? not really; games writers are terrible), and oh, I know how to operate one kind of motion capture software. But what good are skills like that? I actually had a game partially designed and was building it with some fellow students, but someone who didn't like that it wasn't about geriatric Batman sabotaged it.
Bah, sorry for moaning. I want to do stuff, but I don't actually have the skills to do anything, and now the impending threat of my final semester is here, and... I've got nothing to show for it.
What can I do, guys? Anything? Or just jump into a different line of work?
Less thinking, excuse making.. more doing!
Just do something. Then make it better. Repeat until you own the new Nintendo.
Simple really...
Been working on my game this week. It's going well. I finally have all my character's powers down, all the systems (text box, savng, etc), all my tools for level design. This means I truly am at designing and coding level design ingredients (fun part begins!).
However, I must ask GAF about something. Can you guys tell me if this is too much? (see screenshot). If you don't see what I am asking about (it's a good sign) then tell me. If you think it's however too similar, please tell me too.
I just think its the best way to do it. :/
Maybe a bit too similar in style yeah
Less thinking, excuse making.. more doing!
Just do something. Then make it better. Repeat until you own the new Nintendo.
Simple really...
This! School will never truly teach you what you need to know. Learn by doing. And keep at it. Everyone sucks when they start out. Take every bit of critique you can and improve!
Also, try to get to know and hang out with talented people in your area. It's very motivating to have talented people around you in real life.
My game was posted on indiegames.com
http://indiegames.com/2012/12/browser_game_pick_lil_commando.html
Do you know Java at all? Whenever I do Andoird stuff I use Libgdx. It makes development a lot easier and you can abstract yourself away from the android specific stuff.
I'm in the game of the month but I'm not planning on letting it get in the way of my main projects. I'm actually using it mostly to submit text games I make with Twine. I figure this is a good kick in the but to work on my writing ability.
I'd say the main thing is to fill in the pixels that get lost from the transformations. Especially around the blades.
http://indiegames.com/2012/12/browser_game_pick_lil_commando.html
Do you know Java at all? Whenever I do Andoird stuff I use Libgdx. It makes development a lot easier and you can abstract yourself away from the android specific stuff.
I'm in the game of the month but I'm not planning on letting it get in the way of my main projects. I'm actually using it mostly to submit text games I make with Twine. I figure this is a good kick in the but to work on my writing ability.
Happy January !
I did lots of tests today ... and here is my best result ! =D
Still a little slow ... did lots of pixel art tests and no Frames per second test so I ended up doing twice the fps =P
Any critiques ?
edit : damn ... the weapon has the exact same color as the background from this post xD
I'd say the main thing is to fill in the pixels that get lost from the transformations. Especially around the blades.
Hey, I can probably guarantee you are younger than me. I was 33 when I started to learn how to program. Chin up, get down and dirty with some basic tutorials. It'll come together, if you persist.
Finally finished coding all enemies including the final boss. I added some new ones, and I made the final boss a real BITCH to kill, old-school style.
I also added a shield that deflects bullets, but not energy-based projectiles.
Looks interesting! What type of game? Metroidvania?
yeah just check the MTV. If the X is greater than 0 then it was the right side. If it's less it was the left.
Same for up and down.
Make sure you check that the opposite coordinate of the MTV you are checking is zero to be safe though.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I always suggest Game Maker for a complete beginner.
E: Elaboration!
GM gets a lot of criticism for being "too simple" or "not powerful". Truthfully, it's a very versatile development option, particularly for 2D games. Studio is a great starting point given that it's the newest and most in-development piece of software they offer. GM8.1 is a very strong engine, but I suggest Studio over 8.1 simply because of the price point and potential future export options (iOS, Android, HTML5).
For starters, I ALWAYS suggest these tutorials. They create a basic Gradius game in a few short hours. If you want to start SUPER newb, the Game Maker's Apprentice book covers drag and drop game creation very well.
Game Maker offers two outlets for creation - drag and drop, as well as game maker language (GML). GML is said to be structurally similar to C, but people who code more than I do can give you their opinions on which language it more resembles. Read a little more about it and see some samples here.
Drag and drop game creation is sort of what it sounds like - you drag and drop various "events" and "outcomes". So you can drag the "collision" event and set it to object A collides with object B, and then drag the outcome of "bounce". It's very simple. It's definitely a limited environment, but you CAN create fully playable (and fun!) games with drag and drop. There's a book out there (The Game Maker's Companion) that fully recreates the engine for the old game Zool in drag and drop. The idea is to show that it is very possible to create something via drag and drop, but you'll soon discover that it's not the best way. It's still a fantastic learning tool.
GML, on the other hand, gives you SIGNIFICANTLY more freedom in design. Most people never get into GML when they try Game Maker, so most people forget that it's there or brush it off as being a lesser language. It's very capable and holds its own VERY well. Watch this video. The power of GM is there.
I know this sounds like a sales pitch for Game Maker, but I don't mean it to be. I simply want to make sure you realize it's a very viable alternative to the other coding environments people commonly suggest.
Late reply, saw this post linked from the Steam thread when GM was on sale.
These tutorials seem out of date - the interface is totally different now, some options aren't in the same places and so on.
Did you get Studio or the normal version? I think that's one difference, and I am not convinced from what I have heard that Studio is a huge improvement yet.
One other possibility may be the advanced/simple interface. If I recall correctly there are more options available if you choose the advanced menu option, but I may be confusing GameMaker with something else.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I don't know if studio has the option for advanced. I think it's enabled by default. But regarding the tutorials, they're just meh. The best tutorials I've found are the ones over at TIGsource to make a Gradius style game.
Otherwise, the Game Maker books are decent, but only really deal with DnD actions.
Yeah, Derek's tutorials on TIGForums are fantastic. Goes straight into proper GML.
studio is much faster, but much more limited in order to make it easier to port to ios and other platforms. Get Gm8.1
I am. Its an alright forum. Some posters can be snobs though
Finally finished coding all enemies including the final boss. I added some new ones, and I made the final boss a real BITCH to kill, old-school style.
I also added a shield that deflects bullets, but not energy-based projectiles.
Just curious, what are you using to make this game?
I really havn't worked on anything, including my dissertation that I've got to finish! Played around with a small loading transition for my little puzzle drop game, click the image below to give it a go. Takes a while to load games about 50mb. I recommend full screening the game, when it re sizes the transition seems to have this weird flick issue, just press retry or next to see it.
Looking at all this animation talk makes me want to try something I've been meaning to for a while, want to try animating like they do for the KoF games now by animating in 3D then roto in 2D. I'd like to think I'm getting ok at 3d animation.
Looking at all this animation talk makes me want to try something I've been meaning to for a while, want to try animating like they do for the KoF games now by animating in 3D then roto in 2D. I'd like to think I'm getting ok at 3d animation.
yeah very true. It kind of drove me away from the design section for that reason. I tend to hang out in technical mostly.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Yeah - I read the forum, but don't post. It's a very elitist community.
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