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Indie Game Development Discussion Thread | Of Being Professionally Poor

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flkk

Neo Member
I released a little game called Siege Knight on Kongregate. It's a single-player, defend the castle with traps and shoot bad guys type of game.

I remember posting about it in this thread ages ago while it was still in development, but then went quiet as I buckled down to try and finish it. If you have a minute to spare, try it out and let me know what you think!

 

EDarkness

Member
Started working on my project this week. Focusing on the overall design of the game as well as characters, setting, and all that. I want to have focused idea about what it's going to be like and how it's gonna work. Hopefully I can get far enough to apply for getting the game on the Wii U. Should be cool to actually get a console game out. Either way, I'm targeting Mac and PCs using Unity.

I wish everyone luck with their own projects. :)
 

PhiLonius

Member

GulAtiCa

Member
I started to make a tower defense type of game recently. I decided to make the game a bit retro and 80's like in theme of insides of computer (green and black grid type). Mainly as a way to forgo getting graphics done at the moment. I'll still have to get sound effects made for it if I like it enough to make it public. Esp if I port it to smartphones.
 
I've never really shared sales data before, but with my Kickstarter for Another Castle coming to a close tomorrow I thought you guys might find this interesting.

As of right now my Kickstarter is at $14,852:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uncadedave/another-castle

As of today the lifetime revenue for all of my apps combined on iOS is $10,251:
ios-sales.png


I think this shows both how tough the saturated iOS market is, and how great Kickstarter is as a platform for indies. I know I'm tired of trying to bang my head against a wall in a market that demands artificially cheap apps, or freemium crap.

I still think iOS is pretty great, but I don't think it makes sense to rely on it as a primary platform unless you have the ability to reach a very wide audience, which is hard to do as a small time indie.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Just wondering guys, what's a good software/IDE for developing visual novels? I'm a Mac user here and have extensive knowledge on Java and C (and decent on C++). I only have Netbeans properly set up here. I just installed Eclipse with C++ but it requires GCC (which is weird to install in the Mac, unless someone can direct me to a good tutorial :p).
 

fr3shme4t

Neo Member
I still think iOS is pretty great, but I don't think it makes sense to rely on it as a primary platform unless you have the ability to reach a very wide audience, which is hard to do as a small time indie.

Thanks for sharing your sales. It's always good to get real sales from fellow indies. I'm curious about the "others" category, since that seems to be the bulk of your sales. What's in there?
 

beril

Member
I've never really shared sales data before, but with my Kickstarter for Another Castle coming to a close tomorrow I thought you guys might find this interesting.

As of right now my Kickstarter is at $14,852:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uncadedave/another-castle

As of today the lifetime revenue for all of my apps combined on iOS is $10,251:
ios-sales.png


I think this shows both how tough the saturated iOS market is, and how great Kickstarter is as a platform for indies. I know I'm tired of trying to bang my head against a wall in a market that demands artificially cheap apps, or freemium crap.

I still think iOS is pretty great, but I don't think it makes sense to rely on it as a primary platform unless you have the ability to reach a very wide audience, which is hard to do as a small time indie.

Congrats!

On the other hand, it's kindof disheartening to see that it's easier to make money off a kickstarter pitch than from actual finnished games that people can buy and play right now.
 

Sword Familiar

178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
Just wondering guys, what's a good software/IDE for developing visual novels? I'm a Mac user here and have extensive knowledge on Java and C (and decent on C++). I only have Netbeans properly set up here. I just installed Eclipse with C++ but it requires GCC (which is weird to install in the Mac, unless someone can direct me to a good tutorial :p).

Have you tried Ren'Py? I haven't tried it myself, but it seems pretty good.
 
I thought this would be the best place to ask this. I've decided I want to make a mobile game (or die trying). The catch is that I have zero programming knowledge. What's the best way for me to start? Which engine sounds like the best for me to begin with that will apply to future projects down the line? Should I just read some books on C+ or is that overkill?

To expand a bit on my goal: I want to eventually make a 2D rhythm game for phones and tablets. Maybe something along the lines of Cytus or Taiko No Tatsujin.
 
Thanks for sharing your sales. It's always good to get real sales from fellow indies. I'm curious about the "others" category, since that seems to be the bulk of your sales. What's in there?

Since I'm sharing stats, may as well do them all! This is a chart showing the lifetime sales of each of my games:

ios-sales-2.png


Android sales have been so abysmal there really not worth mentioning.

Congrats!

On the other hand, it's kindof disheartening to see that it's easier to make money off a kickstarter pitch than from actual finnished games that people can buy and play right now.

Thanks! It is kind of disheartening , but platform differences really do seem to matter.

Apple has encouraged low app prices with their store structure, because they make money on the hardware. They probably don't care about app revenue in the big scheme of things. This is why I've decided to try and get my games on platforms where the main source of income for the platform holder is game sales. This is a big reason I'm excited to be developing for the Wii U, beyond just that fact that it's Nintendo and I think it'll be fun to develop for the tablet controller.

It is weird going from a platform where $2.99 is considered expensive, to Kickstarter where the average backer has pledged a little under $20 for just the promise of a game. The chance for exposure on Kickstarter is also a lot better, as old projects get cycled out. That way you're not competing with the "Big Names" from the past few years in addition to the flood of new games. I'm incredibly thankful that Kickstarter exists, as it's allowed me to continue my indie career.
 

Jarekx

Member
I have infinite respect for any artist out there now. I've been trying to teach myself to make sprites for a project I'm working on, but man it is tough. It takes some real talent to be convey so much with so little. I'm just going to keep banging my head against the wall and hope for an eventual breakthrough.
 
I thought this would be the best place to ask this. I've decided I want to make a mobile game (or die trying). The catch is that I have zero programming knowledge. What's the best way for me to start? Which engine sounds like the best for me to begin with that will apply to future projects down the line? Should I just read some books on C+ or is that overkill?

To expand a bit on my goal: I want to eventually make a 2D rhythm game for phones and tablets. Maybe something along the lines of Cytus or Taiko No Tatsujin.

Game Maker, Corona SDK and Game Editor all seem like popular, inexpensive choices. If you had $$$, Flash.
http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/studio

EDIT: OH CRAP since when did Game Maker get this dang expensive?!

I'm rather psyched for Project Anarchy since it uses LUA, the same super easy programming language as Corona SDK.
http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/26/ha...hy-a-totally-free-engine-for-3d-mobile-games/
 
Speaking about the math, well,
that's something most people drop as soon as possible. Luckily, I realized
early enough that all the flashy graphics are based on just one thing,
mathematics. Many I knew were gone the API/SDK way, i.e. OpenGL and friends,
years ago to get some cool graphics on the screen quickly. They all wanted to
make games etc. The truth is, none of them does it today. Despite the good use
of tools while in the right hands, tools foster many people to stop thinking.
They become bounded by the ability of the tool over time. If the tool can't do
it, they can't do it either. Anyhow, it doesn't help you anything. The only
thing that helps is actually doing what's necessary
, independently of whether
we land on the surface of mars, or whether Cerny has spoken about hidden-lines
years ago, or whatever I have to say for that matter. xD

agreed! being committed/driven to do something and following through with it is generally what makes you in the end.

and I don't really feel bad about not doing hidden line in my youth.. I did write a text-adventure parser and scripting language at around the same age heh, it was the pride of my youthful endeavours. It's only since I've started doing more and more graphics that I've realised the need to go back and relearn stuff like trig and it's paying off.
 

Dynamite Shikoku

Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I uploaded a new video of my one-touch platforming game today, captured from an iPod 5g. It's starting to look pretty cool, and I have some different sounds and music going on now. Still have a lot of little things to do, but I'll get there.

The capture is just 30fps but the game runs at 60.

Check it out here.

 

fr3shme4t

Neo Member
Since I'm sharing stats, may as well do them all! This is a chart showing the lifetime sales of each of my games:

Thanks!

You've made quite a few games in the last 2 years.

It's interesting that even looking at a single person's games you can see that all-or-nothing pattern. Clearly some games have been much more successful than others. Your sales data clearly shows that some are much (10x-20x) more successful than others.
 

missile

Member
Played it. Cool game! :+


agreed! being committed/driven to do something and following through with it is generally what makes you in the end.

and I don't really feel bad about not doing hidden line in my youth.. I did write a text-adventure parser and scripting language at around the same age heh, it was the pride of my youthful endeavours. It's only since I've started doing more and more graphics that I've realized the need to go back and relearn stuff like trig and it's paying off.
A parser and a scripting language makes up for all hidden line stuff! :)
Personally, I never look up to someone because (s)he did some cool stuff. It
serves me nothing. It's not may life. Each and everyone has different
constrains to fulfill during his life. There are no two people having the
same initial conditions and the same constrains over time. So life will be
different for everyone. But I like people for the passion they put into their
work, for the will-power to not give up. And the people we talked about were
fueled by all of this. And that's why we know them.
 

omg_mjd

Member
Have you tried Ren'Py? I haven't tried it myself, but it seems pretty good.

Ren'Py's great. Only problem with the Mac version is that the resulting app can't be signed for Gatekeeper so an end-user will have to change their Gatekeeper settings just to run the game (unless they've manually set it on the least secure setting already).

That was months ago, not sure if anything has changed by now.
 
Heres a screenshot and a gif of a bullet hell shooter I'm making for a Udacity contest and for 1GAM march.

The majority of the art is done, just need to tweak the enemies, and work on some graphics bugs for the second level.

8PFdwDu.png


ibfkxScmdTrmuq.gif


gif wasnt working, making a new one
 
has YoYoGames said anything about Ouya support for GameMaker? I'd think it wouldn't be hard at all with the android export functionality already.

Also, is there a page for easy Unity to Ouya info?
 

razu

Member
Good evening!

I just found out I can give away copies of Chopper Mike on Desura. I'm doing a 10 free copies giveaway on Twitter and FB, but.. since you're the awesomest dudes on the Internet, I'll give some just for the participants of this thread!

PM me with your email address for a free copy!

High five!! :D
 

billsmugs

Member
Any good resources for coding tutorials? Trying to learn C#

Quoting a post I made in the Programming |OT|, when someone asked for C# resources:
billsmugs said:
Rob Miles' Yellow Book (LINK) is a great (free) book in PDF format for learning C#. I used it on its own to learn the language and found it very clear and simple, with lots of info.

I'm still new to the language (and relatively new to programming in general, except for using GML in Game Maker and doing a C programming course at university), but I'm now making a game using PlayStation Mobile in C# and the Yellow Book is enough to answer 95% of the questions I encounter on basic C# concepts. The book starts from the most basic initialising of variables up to details on Threading and GUIs (I haven't actually read up the that point yet, but I've got through about 125 of the 201 pages and everything is explained clearly and with a bit of humour every so often, and it goes into plenty of detail on each topic and doesn't assume any previous knowledge).
 

ultim8p00

Banned
Hey guys, I kind of have a problem and I need your help.


My game currently runs at a native resolution of 512*384, then upscales everything. Thing is, I don't know what the most common resolution is. I don't want the game to be scaled weirdly because it makes everything look like ass.

How should I handle this? I don't know much about PC resolutions these days. Right now it runs at 1920*1080 and it looks good.

I can change the native resolution to fit better ratios if I had to, but I don't know much about ratios or what to target
 

fin

Member
Squashed a few more bugs this week and finished making the UI for the seeds. Also made a scheme to control what seeds the player has available to use. I'm thinking rather than having them unlocked as the player progresses, have another character (kinda like navi from zelda) that activates/deactivates them. So you'll be losing and gaining the seeds throughout the level. Here's a quick little puzzle I put together today with the clone and gravity sphere seeds available. Super simple, a bridge and a switch.

http://youtu.be/qW5dQOcY-o4

I thought it was clever :p.

Need to start working art again though.
 

TheBera

Member
has YoYoGames said anything about Ouya support for GameMaker? I'd think it wouldn't be hard at all with the android export functionality already.

Also, is there a page for easy Unity to Ouya info?

Game Maker Studio games already works on Ouya, the only problem is that some buttons of the controller don't work.
As far as I know, YoYoGames has yet to say anything about Ouya support. Which is a shame because it really shouldn't be too hard for them to make it 100% work!
 
I've always had a huge problem with resolving collisions adequately. Does anyone know of any good tutorials on resolving 2D collisions? It's a topic I learnt very lightly at uni but never really got to grasps with.

edit: I've found a way to do this in Unity (CharacterController) but I'd really like to have a fundamental knowledge of this topic as well, so if anyone can help me it'd be greatly appreciated.
 

RSP

Member
We had another gamejam at the office on Thursday and Friday and the result was pretty damn cool: a survival-horror themed top-down shooter.

Check out the video here: http://youtu.be/kBcPnMzHXjY

We will probably fix some bugs next week and put it up for download. Perhaps port it to iOS or Ouya.
 

Bamihap

Good at being the bigger man
Game Maker Studio games already works on Ouya, the only problem is that some buttons of the controller don't work.
As far as I know, YoYoGames has yet to say anything about Ouya support. Which is a shame because it really shouldn't be too hard for them to make it 100% work!
I can ask the founder. We work in the same office building :)
 

Dali

Member
We had another gamejam at the office on Thursday and Friday and the result was pretty damn cool: a survival-horror themed top-down shooter.

Check out the video here: http://youtu.be/kBcPnMzHXjY

We will probably fix some bugs next week and put it up for download. Perhaps port it to iOS or Ouya.

Looks good. Simple art styles can be amazing. The bouncing character combined with footstep audio creates the illusion of a walking person nicely. That's minimalist design done right. Awesome.
 

fin

Member
I've always had a huge problem with resolving collisions adequately. Does anyone know of any good tutorials on resolving 2D collisions? It's a topic I learnt very lightly at uni but never really got to grasps with.

edit: I've found a way to do this in Unity (CharacterController) but I'd really like to have a fundamental knowledge of this topic as well, so if anyone can help me it'd be greatly appreciated.

I got this bookmarked, might be helpful:

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/7671/guidelines-for-using-rigidbody-collider-characterc.html
 

BlazinAm

Junior Member
I've never really shared sales data before, but with my Kickstarter for Another Castle coming to a close tomorrow I thought you guys might find this interesting.

As of right now my Kickstarter is at $14,852:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uncadedave/another-castle

As of today the lifetime revenue for all of my apps combined on iOS is $10,251:
ios-sales.png


I think this shows both how tough the saturated iOS market is, and how great Kickstarter is as a platform for indies. I know I'm tired of trying to bang my head against a wall in a market that demands artificially cheap apps, or freemium crap.

I still think iOS is pretty great, but I don't think it makes sense to rely on it as a primary platform unless you have the ability to reach a very wide audience, which is hard to do as a small time indie.
Pretty cool that Kickstarter got mentioned on a couple gaming sites.

Those sales are sobering wake up call for me although I am shooting for 500 bucks on a first release.... I should aim even lower.

Edit: whoa I am reading through your AMA looks like you good a sizable amount of feedback impressive.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Since McSpidey was asking, feel free to throw any announcements or playable builds also in the Indie Games thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532236

You got the dev skills, we got the gaming skills ;P

As long as you post that its YOUR game you are posting about I am fine with it :)
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I released a little game called Siege Knight on Kongregate. It's a single-player, defend the castle with traps and shoot bad guys type of game.

I remember posting about it in this thread ages ago while it was still in development, but then went quiet as I buckled down to try and finish it. If you have a minute to spare, try it out and let me know what you think!

www.kongregate.com/games/funstorm/siege-knight
3 starred everything. Pretty solid defense game.

Liked the idea of pit traps, but ultimately spamming spike towers and archers + near infinite magic swapping (ice / fire / ice) with cannon was most effective.

For a bit I used barricades, but ended just spamming the bow for most of the early levels.

One strat I was using was a rotation of weapons due to their cooldowns, but this proved to be worse alter since the bow must rack up hits to be most effective (Cannon doesn't negate this, but the shotgun does) plus the shotgun is pretty bad even fully upgraded. So the early levels I just used arrow + cannon to plow my way through.

Freeze traps are cute, along with pit traps, but with how much money you actually get on level 1-7 it's just better to spam spikes as they will kill small enemies without issue and never die. Also worth noting (Whether intentional or not) is that the cannon will not hit all 4 lanes if the targets are small enemies which I thought was a nice touch.

The only money sinks on Stages 7-END are archers (since knights just die too fast and I'm pretty sure their damage isn't as great) and with no defense upgrade system I was just having 2 spikes, a pit, and 5 archers per lane.

At the end because the other weapons and defenses had no means of scaling (Either points or money) I just rotated 5,4,3,5,3,4,5,3 etc... while holding left click because I wouldn't run out of mana for about 3-4 minutes as my WALL OF DEEPS layed into everything.

The coin pickup mechanic is good, the variation of enemy waves is good, I love me some damage numbers, and the skill tree isn't horribly imbalanced, and I enjoyed being able to respec constantly to try new things.

Great little game for what it is that doesn't wear out it's welcome, which parts did you do for the game?
I have infinite respect for any artist out there now. I've been trying to teach myself to make sprites for a project I'm working on, but man it is tough. It takes some real talent to be convey so much with so little. I'm just going to keep banging my head against the wall and hope for an eventual breakthrough.
*Nods*
For sure. I'm just laying groundwork for ideas an the amount of art I'll need is mind boggling.
 

RSP

Member
Looks good. Simple art styles can be amazing. The bouncing character combined with footstep audio creates the illusion of a walking person nicely. That's minimalist design done right. Awesome.

Thanks! It was good to be able to focus on gameplay instead of animations and things like UI and such.

Still a lot of time went into creating a nice wave spawning system (which we can re-use) and some simple enemy behavior.
 

eot

Banned
Yeah, great times. Breaking the frontier in 3d graphics at that time must
have been such an amazing feeling. But the cool thing is that anyone can redo
it any time. And I can tell you, one gets a similar feeling doing it today
as they got many, many years ago. But also all the headaches! ;) Ahh ... the
hidden-line problem, yeah, it's actually not an easy task if you can't use
Painter's algorithm (i.e. overdrawing) or a Z-buffer algorithm due to
performance and memory limitation. Speaking about the math, well,
that's something most people drop as soon as possible. Luckily, I realized
early enough that all the flashy graphics are based on just one thing,
mathematics. Many I knew were gone the API/SDK way, i.e. OpenGL and friends,
years ago to get some cool graphics on the screen quickly. They all wanted to
make games etc. The truth is, none of them does it today. Despite the good use
of tools while in the right hands, tools foster many people to stop thinking.
They become bounded by the ability of the tool over time. If the tool can't do
it, they can't do it either. Anyhow, it doesn't help you anything. The only
thing that helps is actually doing what's necessary, independently of whether
we land on the surface of mars, or whether Cerny has spoken about hidden-lines
years ago, or whatever I have to say for that matter. xD

I'm not sure I agree. I've studied projective geometry, done 3D -> 2D perspective maps by hand and that kind of stuff but that's an engineering skillset at this point. I would love to write my own software renderer just as intellectual exercise, but there are other things I'd like to do more which is why I'm not a computer scientist. Game design will always have an element of engineering to it, but I think tools that reduce that requirement are a good thing. They're meant to increase productivity and they do.

I started with 2D stuff and in 2D it's relatively easy to do low level stuff, write your own engine etc. Then I wanted to experiment with 3D and I started exploring the 3D APIs but even as powerful as they are the question quickly becomes: do I want to be a game designer or an engineer? It's true that you lose something when you work with high level tools (it's an uncomfortable transition to make) but in a lot of cases the trade off is worth it.
 

missile

Member
I'm not sure I agree. I've studied projective geometry, done 3D -> 2D perspective maps by hand and that kind of stuff but that's an engineering skillset at this point. I would love to write my own software renderer just as intellectual exercise, but there are other things I'd like to do more which is why I'm not a computer scientist. Game design will always have an element of engineering to it, but I think tools that reduce that requirement are a good thing. They're meant to increase productivity and they do.

I started with 2D stuff and in 2D it's relatively easy to do low level stuff, write your own engine etc. Then I wanted to experiment with 3D and I started exploring the 3D APIs but even as powerful as they are the question quickly becomes: do I want to be a game designer or an engineer? It's true that you lose something when you work with high level tools (it's an uncomfortable transition to make) but in a lot of cases the trade off is worth it.
That's all true. It really depends on who you are and where do you want to go.
Well, what I've written in my last post about the use of tools should serve
more or less as a reminder that thinking about a problem (perhaps on paper)
may also be a good strategy before using a tool and trying all of its 10^32
combinations until success - known as trail and error. Wiki: "Trial and error
is a fundamental method of solving problems. [...] It is characterised by
repeated, varied attempts which are continued until success, or until the
agent stops trying. It is an unsystematic method, which does not employ
insight, theory or organised methodology.". Hence, one may build a game by
trail and error without much knowledge at all. For sure. And someone once
told me that smashing a keyboard long enough will produce Hamlet eventually.
I just need to try long enough, I was told. But I was sorry to decline.
 

Blizzard

Banned
That's all true. It really depends on who you are and where do you want to go.
Well, what I've written in my last post about the use of tools should serve
more or less as a reminder that thinking about a problem (perhaps on paper)
may also be a good strategy before using a tool and trying all of its 10^32
combinations until success - known as trail and error. Wiki: "Trial and error
is a fundamental method of solving problems. [...] It is characterised by
repeated, varied attempts which are continued until success, or until the
agent stops trying. It is an unsystematic method, which does not employ
insight, theory or organised methodology.". Hence, one may build a game by
trail and error without much knowledge at all. For sure. And someone once
told me that smashing a keyboard long enough will produce Hamlet eventually.
I just need to try long enough, I was told. But I was sorry to decline.
I don't think that eot was saying that they are an ignorant monkey, mashing the keyboard in endless trial and error to design games.

I think they were talking about how they DID have background knowledge about 3D rendering, and had even done some of that work by hand. Yet given a choice between additional technical control, or huge productivity gains and greater ability to bring dreams to life, they prefer to focus on the latter.

Not doing something doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it. It can mean that you let someone else do it and then build on the result.
 

missile

Member
I don't think that eot was saying that they are an ignorant monkey, mashing the keyboard in endless trial and error to design games.
Me neither. Read it as a metaphor. I think you're kind too serious about it.
I can construct to every situation with respect to the usage of tools a case
where any argument for or against will break. That's easy. I have written;
"Despite the good use of tools while in the right hands, tools foster many
people to stop thinking.". And there is some truth to it, and I have seen it
many, many times. However, my statement doesn't say anything about all people.
So someone may come up saying the complete opposite - while I haven't exclude
this case at all. See? My argument say that one should watch out for while
using tools for each and everything in trying to solve a problem which might
be solvable with pen and paper much more easily.
 

Bamihap

Good at being the bigger man
As you guys might now we operate the Green Light Bundle. Wouldn't it be great if we made a bundle with only NeoGAF games?

Lemme know if you guys are interested.
 

Zenaku

Member
Anyone here have any tips for handling music? What programs do you use?

I've been testing a few things, currently checking through Reaper a little, but the default plugins leave a little to be desired. I just want something that can create realistic piano notes, maybe some guitar/violins.
 
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