I guess it's like when I call fighting games "twitchy, boring-ass random button mash fests," and my fighting game buddies who have played over 1000 hours get pissed and try to explain the intricacies to me, but I just can't and won't get it cause I'll never put in the time (and time in these types of games--CS, Fighters, MOBAs is a huge barrier, you need to put in hundreds of hours before you can even claim you've conquered the kiddie pool).
Introduction to MOBAs
- Thread starter SteveWinwood
- Start date
I guess it's like when I call fighting games "twitchy, boring-ass random button mash fests," and my fighting game buddies who have played over 1000 hours get pissed and try to explain the intricacies to me, but I just can't and won't get it cause I'll never put in the time (and time in these types of games--CS, Fighters, MOBAs is a huge barrier, you need to put in hundreds of hours before you can even claim you've conquered the kiddie pool).
sorry to tell you there's no santa clause, but nothing you posted here is controversial
Why do you have to make fun of fear like that?
Imperfected
Member
Pretty much, yeah. They're both genres that, unfortunately, break down at the highest levels of play into something completely nonsensical for outsiders looking in. A top-tier 3rd Strike match is a whole lot of people dancing back and forth whiffing normals and looking suspiciously like they don't know how to play until the action kicks off, and MOBAs have sort of the same dynamic.
Not like it's even unique to vidya games. Soccer and boxing can both be pretty damn boring if you don't know enough about the games to grasp why the "nothing" happening at a given time is important nothing.
Tell that to Rox.KIS
bolded the funny parts
wat
thanks i wasnt sure what the joke was
cripples make easy targets. e.g:
a dota player is asking a league player how to pick up girls. "whenever i ask them for their number, i keep getting denied"
WHO SAID DENYING IS GOOD?
The same thing kinda happened with Pudge, didn't it? Taking those thematic cues. Sure, he's based on the abomination unit from WCIII, but the whole "throw out your hook and chain to grab and pull an enemy close to you" is purely from Dota.
Now you see "the butcher" in Diablo III throwing hooks alongside the abomination character named Stitches in HotS. It's really weird to see Blizzard doing some double backs even though the base character was theirs originally.
Imperfected
Member
You can tell Jesus was a LoL player, because if he played DOTA his team wouldn't have let him get away with waiting three days to buy back.
Have a Happy Easter, everyone!
Have a Happy Easter, everyone!
Anybody in (or register for) the Nosgoth beta? It's a behind the back arena combat game (like Smite, not Dota/lol) based on the Legacy of Kain franchise. It looks incredibly dumb and I can't wait to try it.
http://www.nosgoth.com/
For real tho...
http://www.nosgoth.com/
For real tho...
Signed up just now, the game looked kind of neat when Jim Sterling played it (or tried to).
No players.
Imperfected
Member
Well, MOBAs are generally far less expensive projects to embark upon compared to MMOs. They're more low risk/moderate reward, compared to MMO's ridiculous risk/potentially ludicrous reward.
Pureauthor
Member
I wonder how many of these MOBAs mushrooming up will actually survive.
Theres no room for too many the first 6 in the OP (yes including Awesomenauts) are doing very well for each other and have very active communities. The others are yet to prove themselves (meaning not out of beta) or are dead.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100328062506/http://www.leagueoflegends.com/articles/DotA_and_LoL
I just wanted to post these here for people who has any doubts about Riot/LoL's history with DotA. Steve Pendragon Mescon who started DotA-Allstars.com basically sold the site/database including a complete section dedicated to hero suggestions and ideas, most of which were basically completely designed heroes that users wanted to see in the game (DotA that is). DotA-Allstars.com, the leading DotA community site later became a redirect that said "go play League of Legends". Riot also actually sponsored a DotA tournament at GamesCom in 2009, two years prior to the big Dota 2 reveal at the same event. To me, League of Legends has always been and will always be a poor rip off of DotA and I will never support a company that basically did nothing but take a proven game/concept and just start marketing it with a giant pool of cash.
I just wanted to post these here for people who has any doubts about Riot/LoL's history with DotA. Steve Pendragon Mescon who started DotA-Allstars.com basically sold the site/database including a complete section dedicated to hero suggestions and ideas, most of which were basically completely designed heroes that users wanted to see in the game (DotA that is). DotA-Allstars.com, the leading DotA community site later became a redirect that said "go play League of Legends". Riot also actually sponsored a DotA tournament at GamesCom in 2009, two years prior to the big Dota 2 reveal at the same event. To me, League of Legends has always been and will always be a poor rip off of DotA and I will never support a company that basically did nothing but take a proven game/concept and just start marketing it with a giant pool of cash.
Imperfected
Member
HotS will do fine because it's a Blizzard game. They pretty firmly established with Diablo 3 that there's no real possibility of a fail-state for them, at least right now; at worst they release a game that only makes back three or four times its investment, which is what the people in the Blizzard boardroom refer to as "abysmal performance".
If you're looking for games to pray for, Dawngate, Infinite Crisis, and Smite would sit much higher up the list. Particularly Smite. You've got to feel for that one-man investment thing they've got going on.
If you're looking for games to pray for, Dawngate, Infinite Crisis, and Smite would sit much higher up the list. Particularly Smite. You've got to feel for that one-man investment thing they've got going on.
Marauder Shields
Member
Like someone mentioned earlier, isn't the game in alpha? If so I can't really expect it to hit big numbers that early.
Hearthstone did significantly better, it's numbers aren't just poor they're non-existent. It's obviously going to do much better, but considering Blizzard released the Alpha with no-NDA it can't be too happy with it's performance.
you seem a little salty
"I will never support a company that basically did nothing but take a proven game/concept and just start marketing it with a giant pool of cash"
like valve and dota2 right
well all the real streamers dropped hots, of course itll have low viewercount
Tyran_lord
Member
Dawngate isn't getting much viewers either for a no-NDA policy and the recent opening up of the beta.
Dawngate also doesn't have heroes from several gigantic IPs, is made by an unknown developer and published by EA of all companies. Also there doesn't seem to be much, if any, marketing for the title yet. I don't think it's far-fetched to expect substantially better numbers from a Blizzard game, especially considering how well Hearthstone did during its early closed beta phase. HotS might as well be called that judging by the footage I've seen.
isn't doto 2 like doto 1 with enhanced graphics and hats doe?
Imperfected
Member
If HotS isn't doing well Blizzard will just give people free WoW/Hearthstone tchotchkes for playing it and it'll magically be above water overnight. They obviously aren't concerned if they aren't throwing in the merchandising tie-ins yet.
Yep, just like Valave and Dota2. ROLLSEYES
You're incredulous. Every time I see you speak you always have some smug undertone about how dota2 is inferior. Like the time you said HotS will be more popular than Dota2 because Blizzard is Blizzard and has proven franchises. That Diablo player count.
Sigismundo
Member
Also if someone needs to stir the pot I have plenty of personal anecdotes about Riot (and I know people that work for them, not just "oh I came across a Riot member one day and he was an asshole")
Also I think HotS looks abhorrent enough to let me give Riot some slack. You can guess what game I play.
Also I think HotS looks abhorrent enough to let me give Riot some slack. You can guess what game I play.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
This thread makes me sad that Super Monday Night Combat is dead.
If there was still a good community around that game I wouldn't even be playing Dota 2 right now
If there was still a good community around that game I wouldn't even be playing Dota 2 right now
are you going to explain why you dont think valve-dota arent an example of "taking a proven concept and adding marketing"
or are you just going to cry there
you mean this diablo player count?
are you going to explain why you dont think valve-dota arent an example of "taking a proven concept and adding marketing"
or are you just going to cry there
you mean this diablo player count?
That's not a player count.
It is an exact port of DotA without the limitations of the WC3 engine. Valve got the name and supported the DotA community by keeping the original spirit and game alive, and their idea is to only trying to earn money out of purely cosmetic items, while Riot brought in some (idk if it's only Guinsoo or more) developers to try to monetize a game that to them looked like the perfect game to try to monetize and they didn't really care for the original game at all. In the first years while League of Legends were still in beta Riot basically stopped at nothing in their attempts to try to convert/convince DotA fans/players to go play their game instead. Riot basically got the perfect framework and after their insane marketing campaign got to the point where they are now.
Eul and IceFrog which are arguably the two most important DotA developers/modders works at Valve.
Yes I am a bit salty and I apologize if I've derailed the thread from it's initial purpose, but I wanted to share that link as it contains important and relevant info for the DotA-LoL "rivalry".
Sigismundo
Member
Frog balances -armour around Dota 2 now. That's why Amplify Damage etc got buffed a few patches ago so it matches up with DotA's -armor.
Couldn't tell you about the attack speed thing but I agree, it needs to be fixed (especially with Phoenix around)
I'm sure they'll be fixed at the same time replays are added to League.
so you're telling me how valve took a proven game concept and injected money into it, not that they didnt do it.
i presume youre part of the old guard, but youve got some battle scars apparently because you cant seem to let it go. dota-lol "rivalry"
so in 5 months then
Never is not a timetable
tbh it's not really a rivalry, it's just doto dudes hating on league players for something rito did years ago
like whatever dude, you can hate on it whatever you want but league is a very different game now than it was before and it's actually cooler because it's went its own way from doto. it plays very differently from my short experience with doto2 and from reading league design shit you can tell they just branched on their own way design wise long ago
so like now you have two cool games and lots of happy people
yea guinsoo or whoever did some shitty things and so did rito (and continues to awkardly try to do, and fails) but that was like a million years ago
and like valve's monetization system is very scummy as well. keys and chests are like evil as fuck.
edit: but like actually if you think about it rito did a ton more with doto than valve did since they actually invented and streamlined shit rather than just update it. not taking merits off doto2, just saying
like whatever dude, you can hate on it whatever you want but league is a very different game now than it was before and it's actually cooler because it's went its own way from doto. it plays very differently from my short experience with doto2 and from reading league design shit you can tell they just branched on their own way design wise long ago
so like now you have two cool games and lots of happy people
yea guinsoo or whoever did some shitty things and so did rito (and continues to awkardly try to do, and fails) but that was like a million years ago
and like valve's monetization system is very scummy as well. keys and chests are like evil as fuck.
edit: but like actually if you think about it rito did a ton more with doto than valve did since they actually invented and streamlined shit rather than just update it. not taking merits off doto2, just saying
No. I am telling you that Dota 2 is the same game as DotA and that IceFrog joined Valve with the intention of improving the original game and work around the limitations of the WC3 engine whereas Riot basically took a proven concept and tried to monetize the shit out of it (and that worked out really well for them). Valve basically took the game and injected money around it, while Riot took the game and injected money into it. But I see no more point in trying to explain these things to you as you already seem to have made up your mind about this topic.