Introduction to MOBAs

You can really see the difference between Blink and Flash by comparing how far teams are from each other leading up to clashes. Two DOTA2 teams, from the mid game onwards, are usually an entire screen apart unless one or both of them are smoked. Two League teams, on the other hand, are almost always within base hero vision range. When Flash is down, this distance shortens even further. Poking range in League is like engagement range in DOTA2.

I'm reminded of that one Nashor fight I caught a day or two ago when one team was basically just sitting outside the pit waiting for the team inside the pit to mess up.

In DOTA2, if your opponents have normal vision on you, you're already dead.
 
Yea...sometimes Flash is used to initiate (reserved for a few very special characters like Annie and Sona). Otherwise, it's purely to finish a chase or escape. In Dota2, Blink is always both for anyone looking to buy one. It's your initiation item AND AND your chasing item AND it's an extra escape mechanism. The benefits of a low cooldown. You don't get a blink dagger unless you're planning to use it to initiate on a regular basis (unless you're playing Sniper or Tinker, I suppose).
 
In Dota there is more weight on pre-engagement, once you get stunned you're fucked (Purges / BKB being exception).

In League there are more in fight opportunities to out/counterplay.

Right now I still prefer Dota style.
 
Leezard said:
You can totally see 10 champs in the same game making plays with mobility, that was the point. Maybe you should add blink as a new summoner spell though, might open even more heroes :)
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Also worth noting that most of the mobility skills in LoL are less than half the range of blink dagger. That's just in flat units, it also seems to me that LoL units are smaller than dota units, given that LoL champions have higher move speed than Dota heroes, but they clearly don't move faster. 600 Dota units seems more like 800-900 LoL units.
 
inJQuOZhoTN3L.gif


:D
 
Hazaro said:
In Dota there is more weight on pre-engagement, once you get stunned you're fucked (Purges / BKB being exception).

In League there are more in fight opportunities to out/counterplay.
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Yep. It's always nice to be able to QSS out of a lot of disables, and most stuns don't last any real duration because of Tenacity ("just long enough" comes to mind). Makes for an interesting "footsies" game with teams dancing around each other.

FACE said:
inJQuOZhoTN3L.gif


:D
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Ferrari-Sama pls
 
Hazaro said:
In Dota there is more weight on pre-engagement, once you get stunned you're fucked (Purges / BKB being exception).

In League there are more in fight opportunities to out/counterplay.

Right now I still prefer Dota style.
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Not true, heroes like dazzle and sd are picked specifically to stop that chain of initiation. As are items like ghost scepter and force staff
 
There are exceptions to every "rule" because DOTA2 is a game of plays, counterplays and counter-counterplays, but in general Hazaro is right.
 
HK-47 said:
Not true, heroes like dazzle and sd are picked specifically to stop that chain of initiation. As are items like ghost scepter and force staff
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Usually you're fucked if you get stunned before you can get off a BKB. Unless the team doesn't have enough damage to chew through your HP during the stun duration. Stuns are a bigger part of Dota than most other MOBAs because outside of a few specific characters who can bail you out...if you get stunned, you're stuck for the listed duration of the stun. No stun duration reduction options. No way to cancel a stun while you're stunned on your own (like you can with a Mecurial/QSS in League).

One of the things that makes the game feel so punishing of small mistakes.
 
DOTA2's counterplays come in tiers

Tier 1: Smoke and skill synergy
Tier 2: Cheap items like force, blink, mek
Tier 3: Expensive cores like BKB, Sheep, Pipe, Linkens
Tier 4: All hell breaking loose items like Refresher, Skadi, Divine Rapier, Satanic

Whereas League's counterplays progress slower (less powerful actives and items in general) but with a higher floor (since everyone starts with Flash).
 
Drambit said:
unit?
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The distance of measure for things like spells and movement speed.

For instance, this is hard to judge of screen shots, but heres a 600 range ability's radius in LoL:
v94CYby.jpg


a 600 range ability in dota:
ftGLiWT.jpg


Blink dagger range(1200) is more than the whole screen width.
 
That's 600 radius, the diameter of that is blink's max range.

Not quite as big as the entire screen but when you factor in ability range it nearly is.
 
Haly said:
That's 600 radius, the diameter of that is blink's max range.

Not quite as big as the entire screen but when you factor in ability range it nearly is.
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True enough, I should have said screen height..

Main point is that the units are not 1:1 in the games, so dota initation ranges are much much longer, which is why positioning is so critical in the game.
 
Heroes of the Storm uses Starcraft 2 ranges, so enjoy having an attack range of 5.
 
iamblades said:
True enough, I should have said screen height..

Main point is that the units are not 1:1 in the games, so dota initation ranges are much much longer, which is why positioning is so critical in the game.
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positioning is critical in every moba. It's just handled differently from game to game. In League positioning tends to be:

Tanks and people with initiation cc up front
Glass cannons (ADC's, AP mages are almost all always built as glass cannons) in the back
Supports somewhere in between trying to run interference for the carry or initiate, depending on which supports were selected
Assassin's lurking looking for an opportunity for a pickoff

Where tanks are looking to dive to the back lines and create chaos...and initiators are there to lock down any and everyone they can to force an engagement on better terms.

In Dota, the Carries are often also tanks (evasion items, satanics, and hearts make it possible), so Dota2 positioning (and incorrect positioning) can be much more random and much more difficult to read. In League if an ADC is up front leading a charge, they're usually out of position and food waiting to be plucked by the enemy LeBlanc/Kha/whoever. In Dota2 if the "ADC" is up front, it doesn't necessarily mean anything at all. They may be able to tank better than anyone else on the team while dealing out tear-inducing damage.

Point is, in both games positioning is absolutely critical, and errant positioning will end in quick murders and salt. There's just more of a footsies game in League (almost like Street Fighter) during team fights because CC is largely so much weaker in League and skills so spammable.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
positioning is critical in every moba. It's just handled differently from game to game. In League positioning tends to be:

Tanks and people with initiation cc up front
Glass cannons (ADC's, AP mages are almost all always built as glass cannons) in the back
Supports somewhere in between trying to run interference for the carry or initiate, depending on which supports were selected
Assassin's lurking looking for an opportunity for a pickoff

Where tanks are looking to dive to the back lines and create chaos...and initiators are there to lock down any and everyone they can to force an engagement on better terms.

In Dota, the Carries are often also tanks (evasion items, satanics, and hearts make it possible), so Dota2 positioning (and incorrect positioning) can be much more random and much more difficult to read. In League if an ADC is up front leading a charge, they're usually out of position and food waiting to be plucked by the enemy LeBlanc/Kha/whoever. In Dota2 if the "ADC" is up front, it doesn't necessarily mean anything at all. They may be able to tank better than anyone else on the team while dealing out tear-inducing damage.

Point is, in both games positioning is absolutely critical, and errant positioning will end in quick murders and salt. There's just more of a footsies game in League (almost like Street Fighter) during team fights because CC is largely so much weaker in League and skills so spammable.
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Yes, positioning is critical in every MOBA, but as it's said above, if the enemy team has full character vision of you during the teamfight stage of the game in Dota, you are already dead. Even if you are a tanky carry.
 
If poking in League is footsies in fightmans, then that makes League the Street Fighter to DOTA2's Guilty Gear/Brazebru.
 
Yeah blink dang is a lot bigger than flash, plus I think the map is more zoomed in in Dora

When I was playing dota 1 basically everyone got it and I think they were trying to fix that, I dont really remember. Does it still shutdown for 3 secs if you get hurt?
 
zkylon said:
is there any difference in like winrate for each map side in doto
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Yes, it varies by game length though.

Radiant has the advantage early game because they have the more efficient jungle layout. Dire has the advantage late game because of easier rosh access.
 
can you like rotate the camera

a lot of people say playing on purple side in league is worse cos of the camera makes dodging skillshots harder
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Teemo - noun /Tee-mo/

1: The measure of salt.
2: The measure of rage.
3: The measure of cute.
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I'm fairly certain we have a different dictionary because mine says "unholy spawn of Satan".

Of all moba's I've ever played he's the only champion I hate with a passion, single handily made me buy yorick to piss off teemo players.
 
zkylon said:
can you like rotate the camera
Click to expand...
no

inkls said:
I'm fairly certain we have a different dictionary because mine says "unholy spawn of Satan".

Of all moba's I've ever played he's the only champion I hate with a passion, single handily made me buy yorick to piss off teemo players.
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Teemo is probably the douche-baggiest character in a MOBA. Mostly because league doesn't have anything as effective as Dota2's Gem of True Sight. The range on the League equivalent (if you want to call it that) is like half the radius. As such, invis champs and invis abilities just become obnoxious.

Haly said:
nerf blue, buff purple: http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/blue-vs-purple
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that's...a pretty big disparity.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
no



Teemo is probably the douche-baggiest character in a MOBA. Mostly because league doesn't have anything as effective as Dota2's Gem of True Sight. The range on the League equivalent (if you want to call it that) is like half the radius. As such, invis champs and invis abilities just become obnoxious.



that's...a pretty big disparity.
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Yeah, the overall balance in dota comes out less than 1% off overall. 6% map advantage is huge.
 
The disparity is attributed to the steeper camera angle, apparently. Look at iamblade's range comparison above. You can see that League's circle is noticably more ovular than DOTA2's. The bottom half of Master Yi's circle is something like 30% larger than the top half of it. You can also see from the texture work that the Blue team can see more than the Purple team, if we assume both sides are on their half of the map.

http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/20...hat-they-suggest-about-the-radiant-advantage/
 
ibqKzs7L3vkHaV.png


So, the bottom sees 12.7% more of the top at any given time.
 
iamblades said:
The distance of measure for things like spells and movement speed.

For instance, this is hard to judge of screen shots, but heres a 600 range ability's radius in LoL:
http://i.imgur.com/v94CYby.jpgIMG]

a 600 range ability in dota:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ftGLiWT.jpgIMG]

Blink dagger range(1200) is more than the whole screen width.[/QUOTE]

The maps are completely different sizes, the games are completely different, there is no good reason to have a standard unit.
Click to expand...
 
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