Introduction to MOBAs

Haly said:
One of the things I disliked most about League was the prohibitions on summons. Coming from an RTS/Dota background, it felt like I was fighting against the engine to get my summons to do what I want. Now, sometimes, subverting the developer's intentions leads to great game mechanics (Smash's Ice Climbers), but when I see Zilean talking about all this 'burden of knowledge' and 'reliability' crap, then look at how summons behave vs. how players actually want them to behave, well it's a kind of hypocrisy I find offputting. '

DOTA2 has many many weird behaviors and interactions that can stump a novice player, but never let it be said that the game actively sabotaged you from playing optimally, especially with all the mechanics customization that now exist.
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Yea I agree with that. I understand part of it for League is "accessibility", but maybe not every champ needs to be easy to pick up and play. Not that many don't have high skill caps (a number are very high skill cap champs), but completely removing the option for a better micro experience from those that have summons by time-limiting summons or disappearing on morph (Elise) or making them almost completely uncontrollable feels like a cop out.
 
Einbroch said:
Even the courier is too much micro for me. Whenever I want to send it to the secret shop it takes me a good five seconds.
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I was pretty bad at it too until I started using a hotkey for the courier itself and quick buy. I set my courier to tilde ~ and v is my quickbuy, so I just right click the courier to the shop, already have the item I want in my quickbuy queue (shift click an item), and hit v when the courier arrives at the shop, and then hit w while the courier is selected and he'll come to you.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Yea I agree with that. I understand part of it for League is "accessibility", but maybe not every champ needs to be easy to pick up and play. Not that many don't have high skill caps (a number are very high skill cap champs), but completely removing the option for a better micro experience from those that have summons by time-limiting summons or disappearing on morph (Elise) or making them almost completely uncontrollable feels like a cop out.
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I just think to have them micro in any meaningful way would be way too much of a change of the basic controls. The way you micro stuff now is a bit of a copout, but it's a very minimal change (if any really) to the overall control scheme.
 
i wouldn't mind a league champion that was basically like nidalee split in two, you just toggle which one you're controlling by pressing r

but tbh sounds like too much hassle
 
Imperfected said:
You can manually control Shaco's Hallucination, Annie's Tibbers, Mordekaiser's Children of the Grave ghost, and (if I remember right) Yorick's Omen of Death Ghoul. You can also control LeBlanc's Mirror Image, but it's a non-damaging clone like ye olde Blademaster ones, so it's not as important.
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They leash to you. And they can't cast spells. Meanwhile, Naga can farm two lanes and the jungle at once with her illusions. And take a look at this skill for a moment:

Arc Warden said:
Tempest Double

By vibrating at extreme speeds, Arc Warden is able to create a perfect electrical incarnation of himself for 20 seconds, at the cost of his current health and mana. This incarnation can use any spells or items he has, and spawns with his health and mana after the cast.
HP/Mana Cost: 30%/15%/0% of current HP/Mana
Duration: 20
Cooldown 65/60/55
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There's no AI controlling this duplicate. It's basically a second hero with the same levels and items as you have. To take a League analogy, it would be like if LeBlanc's clone had all her skills as well, so when you fell below 40% HP, your burst damage doubled.

Playing any of the other champions does in fact rely on being able to control their summoned unit effectively, which is probably why most people don't actually play Shaco or Morde.
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I played a lot of Shaco, back when he was actually a strong jungler, so I know very well how important Hallucinate usage is. I was good at bothing juking with Hallucinate and dodging spells with the cast time.
 
Schweinehund said:
The only aspect I dislike about heimer is how towers target his turrets first over creeps, a simple change would make him so much more viable (no idea if he's viable now, last time I heard him being viable is when he could have like 5-6 turrets out).
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In the past, Heimer had building damage on his grenade. He could just sit around in a bush or the jungle poking the tower without even having to get into range like Pugna does for his Nether Blast. That was annoying. lol

zkylon said:
4bears1annie

i'm sure there's a comic about htat somehwere
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what's happening to this thread
 
Ferrio said:
I just think to have them micro in any meaningful way would be way too much of a change of the basic controls. The way you micro stuff now is a bit of a copout, but it's a very minimal change (if any really) to the overall control scheme.
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Well obviously, but that's more due to League's many legacy systems that stand in the way of substantial mechanics change, which is another problem entirely.

It's not just that Riot doesn't want real RTS controls in League, it would be obscenely difficult to implement.
 
Haly said:
Well obviously, but that's more due to League's many legacy systems that stand in the way of substantial mechanics change, which is another problem entirely.

It's not just that Riot doesn't want real RTS controls in League, it would be obscenely difficult to implement.
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i don't think so

league is it's own thing right now

i don't like rtses, i'm glad it's more of an action game

SteveWinwood said:
Zkylon is slowly turning it into the intro to moba porn thread
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well no one cares to explain doto to me so i get bored
 
Imperfected said:
You monster.
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What can I say? You can take out as many anti-fun mechanics as you want, but there will always be a "most anti-fun" hero and I'll naturally gravitate to it.

My favorite heroes were LeBlanc (when she was shit), Shaco, Akali, Eve, Fizz etc.

#nofunallowed
 
zkylon said:
4bears1annie

i'm sure there's a comic about htat somehwere
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ಠ_ಠ

Isn't Annie a minor?

la_et_chris_hansen_st.jpg


Why don't you have a seat?
 
Dota2 all the way. LoL league matches look like children playing. Slow move speed too... I thank lol for getting me into dota2
 
Almost, but they're probably TB pickers anyway.
 
Phoneix is no anti fun though.

He's a pain in the ass but hes not stupid op or super unfair annoying or anything.

He's no terrorblade.

Edit: barely beaten

Bristleback is still super good and can turn into pub stomper really easy. His quills can be pretty anti fun.
 
Haly said:
What can I say? You can take out as many anti-fun mechanics as you want, but there will always be a "most anti-fun" hero and I'll naturally gravitate to it.

My favorite heroes were LeBlanc (when she was shit), Shaco, Akali, Eve, Fizz etc.

#nofunallowed
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That's okay, those aren't even my "anti-fun" champions. My bugbear has always been dudes who can just click on you and apply long-lasting CC.

Old Shaco (and even current Shaco, really) is a total pubstomper snowball champion, though, so you should still feel pretty bad!
 
Haly said:
What can I say? You can take out as many anti-fun mechanics as you want, but there will always be a "most anti-fun" hero and I'll naturally gravitate to it.

My favorite heroes were LeBlanc (when she was shit), Shaco, Akali, Eve, Fizz etc.

#nofunallowed
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lol you fucking asshole

Druz said:
Dota2 all the way. LoL league matches look like children playing. Slow move speed too... I thank lol for getting me into dota2
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see now this is the perfect atitutude to drive-by this thread
 
Haly said:
In league, 2 seconds is long lasting.

huehuehuehueheuheue
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Yes, well. You can probably guess why I switched to League and only make guest appearances in DotA2.

(And I buy Merc Treads because two seconds is still too long to be sitting there watching the game happen because someone else picked a BS champion. If I wanted to Spectate, there's a button for that.)
 
Techies would destroy LoL too. 6 second aoe stun? Ya GG.

BeesEight said:
I know we're moving away from favourite champions but I just want to say that Rumble was awesome. It's a pity that Dota is constrained by its mana system on all heroes.
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Have you seen his new skin? He's a gundam/gurren lagann character now! Also his theme music is LOUD AS FUCK.

UXM01zi.jpg
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I know we're moving away from favourite champions but I just want to say that Rumble was awesome. It's a pity that Dota is constrained by its mana system on all heroes.
 
Ferrio said:
Techies would destroy LoL too. 6 second aoe stun? Ya GG.
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Techies and Teemo team.

No walking outside of base allowed.
BeesEight said:
I know we're moving away from favourite champions but I just want to say that Rumble was awesome. It's a pity that Dota is constrained by its mana system on all heroes.
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Poor man's Chipper Timbersaw.
 
BeesEight said:
I know we're moving away from favourite champions but I just want to say that Rumble was awesome. It's a pity that Dota is constrained by its mana system on all heroes.
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That always seemed to be more do they're not instant counters to am, pugna, kotl, anything with a diffusal etc. and less to do with a general 'every hero needs mana' philosophy.

Edit what is that grammar fuck it
 
SteveWinwood said:
That always seemed to be more do they're not instant counters to am, pugna, kotl, anything with a diffusal etc. and less to do with a general 'every hero needs mana' philosophy.
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Ah, this was another thing I disliked about League. Remember the old Wit's End with Mana Burn? Yeah. It used to be a pretty fun item but got progressively worse as Riot made more and more manaless champions, to the point where they had to change it to normal magic damage. Also, building Banshee's on Katarina was a total waste of all the gold sunk into Mana Crystal, but necessary because Banshee's was that strong.

One of the advantages of all heroes having mana is that skills/items which interact with mana pools can function regardless of hero choice. Sure, some heroes benefit having a large mana pool more than others, but there's no hero that literally gets no benefit from having bonus mana.
 
Haly said:
Ah, this was another thing I disliked about League. Remember the old Wit's End with Mana Burn? Yeah. It used to be a pretty fun item but got progressively worse as Riot made more and more manaless champions, to the point where they had to change it to normal magic damage. Also, building Banshee's on Katarina was a total waste of all the gold sunk into Mana Crystal, but necessary because Banshee's was that strong.

One of the advantages of all heroes having mana is that skills/items which interact with mana pools can function regardless of hero choice. Sure, some heroes benefit having a large mana pool more than others, but there's no hero that literally gets no benefit from having bonus mana.
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No I don't think that was the reason. I think the reason was because it was anti-fun.

Ferrio said:
I just always thought it was way to gimmicky, and if it fails....welp.
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Yeah, it could suck, but most of the times it worked. You always had the threat of blowing them up.
 
Don't listen to DotaGAF, Terrorblade is a 100% fun hero.

-Has 2 swords - If 1 sword = fun, then 2 swords = 2x the fun.
-When you push a button something awesome
OP
happens - Thought you killed me? PSYKE I just swapped our HP. Thought I was some chump melee hero? PSYKE now I'm ranged and do way more damage. Thought you were going to get away from me? PSYKE now you're slowed and unable to do anything for a buncha seconds. Thought you were just fighting me? PSYKE now here's 2 of me.
-You can play MOBA solitaire - Let's be honest, teammates are anti-fun.
-You look like something a 12 year old would think is cool
-It's very difficult to lose - Losing is anti-fun.
 
What would DOTA players think of having smartcast implimented in DOTA?

If you don't know what it is, smartcast makes it so when you press your skill key, it targets whoever your mouse cursor is currently over. So instead of hitting a skill key, getting the target recticle then targeting your enemy, you just hover your mouse over them and hit the skill key.
 
Ferrio said:
What would DOTA players think of having smartcast implimented in DOTA?

If you don't know what it is, smartcast makes it so when you press your skill key, it targets whoever your mouse cursor is currently over. So instead of hitting a skill key, getting the target recticle then targeting your enemy, you just hover your mouse over them and hit the skill key.
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It's already in you just have to turn it on on the settings.
 
I wonder how Techies will fare in the more competitive matchmaking environment of Dota 2. Bnet pubs were so all over the place that it didn't make much of a difference if one hero ran around doing nothing but planting mines for 30 minutes as there were always enough scrubs with literally no map awareness getting instagibbed five times on the same ramp to make it worth it, but in Dota 2 the salt will flow.
 
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