Dumb move on Blizzards part.
Interferes with impulse buys.
If you're going to get greedy with your heroes you might as well go all the way.
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Dumb move on Blizzards part.
Interferes with impulse buys.
If you're going to get greedy with your heroes you might as well go all the way.
They should make the heroes subscription based as well.
Yeah I think it has been essentially settled to be a standard thing since it got "discovered" in season 1. Note that there are more variation in the lanes, we have pure tanks and some carries in top lane as well, even if it's primarily bruisers. There have been a lot of teams running another AP carry top recently though. There are junglers of all kinds, but there is always a jungler since you want Smite to secure objectives, and going to lane with Smite is a handicap. Mid is open to AD as well, you typically want some sort of carry there.
Yup, just what was needed. I dunno why they removed the heal debuff last patch, at least they readded it.
You're gonna have to actually call out the bullshit and say what it is then, not just say stuff like this.
renekton is just 'strong' in a specific meta and isnt ridiculously overbearing based on his kit
that meta is the 1v1 top, 0 ganks, tank top meta picks
being a lane bully is his tradeoff for mediocre team fighting, pushing to harass, and having to run ignite to supplement his role in the game
now that teleport is a strong option for top laners, renekton isnt #1 pick cos he is an average tp user (which is defined by late game strength and good tp ganking) and also makes his lane bullying less gud because people can buy and tp
now that heal can give adc pretty good utility, renekton is less effective at killing them making his team fighting worse
now that junglers are encouraged to use all of their jungle due to feral flare/having to mirror feral flare users, renekton is more at risk for pushing
nerfing his lvl 6 hp gain also made ganking him more worth it to reverse lane snowball and also more viable post 6
NALCS playoffs was kinda an extreme example cos that is a 4v0 game, but in that case, renekton is absolutely pointless and was picked 0 times at the playoffs.
in an ideal world where 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 are all possible, renekton becomes less important too - and you can see this in the korean scene (since they dont 4v0 all the time for some reason) where renekton is becoming less of a favoured pick
that meta is the 1v1 top, 0 ganks, tank top meta picks
being a lane bully is his tradeoff for mediocre team fighting, pushing to harass, and having to run ignite to supplement his role in the game
now that teleport is a strong option for top laners, renekton isnt #1 pick cos he is an average tp user (which is defined by late game strength and good tp ganking) and also makes his lane bullying less gud because people can buy and tp
now that heal can give adc pretty good utility, renekton is less effective at killing them making his team fighting worse
now that junglers are encouraged to use all of their jungle due to feral flare/having to mirror feral flare users, renekton is more at risk for pushing
nerfing his lvl 6 hp gain also made ganking him more worth it to reverse lane snowball and also more viable post 6
NALCS playoffs was kinda an extreme example cos that is a 4v0 game, but in that case, renekton is absolutely pointless and was picked 0 times at the playoffs.
in an ideal world where 1v1, 2v1, 3v1 are all possible, renekton becomes less important too - and you can see this in the korean scene (since they dont 4v0 all the time for some reason) where renekton is becoming less of a favoured pick
It doesn't really help in its current implementation. Beating up on a dummy without any context doesn't really tell you much about how a champion will play.
or towers/turrets.
I don't want to defend something thats 100hp, lemme destroy it so they get less gold.
All right boken you are actually right and Renekton is by himself not a problem. I used the poor croc as an example because I could not find anything better to
I wouldn't want that. It's a free out for the person losing.
Surely if Koreans aren't doing the same thing this 4v0 isn't the 'solved' meta and if they leave it for a bit people will figure something else out? It seems Riot give less incentive to try different strategies because they are always patching to get it back to normal so whats the point in wasting time.
SteveWinwood
Member
Not really free. You lose a tower.
The latest patch doesn't do anything for or against the 4v0 stuff at all.
o they did leave it tho
trinkets r still 2mins
tp is still pretty good
reddit is gonna cry
Sometimes it's really advantageous to leave a tower up at low health.
)))How? You can only safely deny when the other team isn't there, otherwise try denying in the middle of a fight which will make you lose the turret defending you.
It penalize the enemy team only if their nibbling the turret, rarely works in a normal push and when someone tries their usually food for the other team.
SteveWinwood
Member
Honestly as someone who doesn't really follow LoL, this is sort of my thoughts on their meta. Too involved and hands on. Let it breathe, and it might surprise you what grows out of it.
I think their little notes with the patches say that as well. They vary from no shit duh statements to straight up this is how we want him played so we did this. Well maybe people don't want to play him that way.
so leave it up then
Not sure if you're aware but you can only deny players affected by handful of specific DoTs, it's a rather rare occasion overall. The only skill coming to mind right now that lets you deny friendlies is Bane's Nightmare.
Plus the enemy team still gets about a third of the tower's bounty.
TharpDaddy
Member
Have you seen Quas or Dyrus play Renekton? He is quite good in team fights. Renekton is less popular right now, but i was using him as an example of what can happen to the meta if one pick is too strong and it bullies out other picks. Renekton was strong in the top lane and people had to find picks that could fight him, those being the likes of Shyvana and Trundle. They hit Renekton a little, but you still see Trundle, Shyvana,
Yesterday's finals Cloud 9 vs TSM top lane picks/bans
game 1: Trundle, Lee Sin (Dr. Mundo, Renekton, Jax top lane bans)
game 2: Renekton, Jax. (Dr. Mundo top lane ban)
game 3: Jax, Renekton (Dr. Mundo top lane ban)
What do all these champs have in common? They are tanky lane bullies, besides Jax who is a late game hyper carry. Renekton has been a contested pick for the whole split, and last year as well. Renekton shuts down Jax in lane, and a 1v1 is usually avoided if you have Jax and you're against a Renekton. When i looked at the CS, Jax was commonly down 30 cs. Renekton would dash in, take half his health, dash out. Jax isin't even that weak of a laner. How would other even weaker laners fair against Renekton?
Renekton is a powerful example of how he can shape a meta, and is why Riot used him as an example of a lane bully. They are buffing others so that he can be a bully, and have his spot, but allow others to thrive as well that are further outside the meta. I am using Renekton as an example, and how he impacted the meta in the past. I am not talking about his current strength with the rise of heal and teleport. There is not necessarily anything wrong with a tanky top meta. my point is what Riot's goals are, which is to buff people outside that meta so they can be used top.
Then do?
oh OK. Is that because they want to let it sort itself out or because the patch is finalised some time before being announced? Will be interesting to see if anything changes.
Does the patch do anything for <10 kills at 30 minutes or is that just league.
I have no idea of what they are thinking but the patch notes only appeared a couple of hours ago.
Nah, the kills stuff is something that occurs pro play league lately and is a symptom of the 4v0 and fast pushes. non-pro games will see a lot more kills.
Trade one asshole for another :|
this makes sense too, it's basically that the outcry against renekton was months ago and riot has been implementing things that push him from that position, renekton is still a good example of a problematic champion at a particular time
That's just how it goes on the rift.
Actually, well stated. I got lost in the "Renekton s not as much of a problem right now", he definitely has been a problem.
ScepticMatt
Member
He has a ultimate called "walrus PUNCH!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ykbVt1ZaJM
enable subtitles
Blown away like in the anime sequence this is based on.
SteveWinwood
Member
Is it hard to emulate the 4v0 and fast pushes in pubs?
Yes, extremely. People are tied to their lanes pretty hard in solo queue.
I'm getting tired of hearing this word in relation to mobas tbh
more like a bug fix lol
haha ok i watched the clip and now i get it. well played swordz
dota seems more free than league in this respect, league definitely has a "standard" playstyle with champs being placed in already outlined roles. ppl are pretty resistant towards anything that doesn't seem standard in some way; this can extend to someone trying like x bot lane one day and getting yelled at, some pro player having success with it on the same patch in a game, and then all of a sudden you won't get shit for playing it
SteveWinwood
Member
So my favorite mode in Dota is all random. I think my favorite part is sometimes you're dealt a shit hand and you get to figure out whats the best way to lane it. I think it's super fun and you have to do some critical thinking. You have no natural mids, well okay what makes a mid mid. You want to be able to push when you want so you can get runes or to kill the tower, or you wanna gank blah blah blah, so who has something that lets you do that... you really get dirty into why things work in the game. It brings great experiences of stupid shit.
This literally can't happen in LoL. People buy a hero and they expect to play him a certain way and that's why the bought him. They're locked into that. You all random and you don't know what the hell you're going to get. I played some ARAM and it still only randoms what you own. I dunno, it's just so... limiting.
Basically I think that people's stiffness in this regard are a direct result of the way Riot has chosen to make the game, at least through the champ buying. I'll admit I don't know how they balance the game to keep the 1 1 1 2 stuff the same, but I think that's kind of silly too and really limits what you can do, at least in pubs. I'm not saying the players are dumb, just that they've been guided in certain directions, thinking out of the box isn't rewarded.
Well I feel this goes both ways, on the other hand, league's meta is easier to learn so you don't get as much rage since its easy to pick up.
But overall its why I went to dota 2. People kept shooting down my posts when I theorycrafting for melee adc's with supports bot instead of solo top amongst other "ideas" so i was pretty happy to see this kind of stuff in dota.
SteveWinwood
Member
bro my tanky initiator cassandra and hard right clicking cho gath is going to be the new hotness
this actually kind of gives me better perspective on their respective business models, I always randomed in dota also (for dat gald)
but I wouldn't make any judgements beyond the idea that the games do things differently. I wouldn't say league is as rigid as saying that you need to buy champion -> play champ with no significant variation, but it's definitely very locked in, despite Riot's intention.
Random could very well work in league if that gold incentive was there but it probably wouldn't work nearly as well, just because it is so ingrained in players, whether they know it or not, to always choose optimal or perceived optimal methods. The pub meta is incredibly influenced by what is going on in the pro scene.
but I wouldn't make any judgements beyond the idea that the games do things differently. I wouldn't say league is as rigid as saying that you need to buy champion -> play champ with no significant variation, but it's definitely very locked in, despite Riot's intention.
Random could very well work in league if that gold incentive was there but it probably wouldn't work nearly as well, just because it is so ingrained in players, whether they know it or not, to always choose optimal or perceived optimal methods. The pub meta is incredibly influenced by what is going on in the pro scene.
That was so disrespectful to Captain Falcon I think I should send him death threats.