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[Stumpokapow]

I would expect a ton of videos and stories starting Friday based on all the things Siri CAN'T do and calling it overhyped. Because as smart as it is, I imagine it's pretty easy to confuse it if you ask it really complex questions. We'll see.

As far as I can tell, Siri does the following:

STEP 1: Convert speech to text.
Its success at being able to do this will be measured in... its success at being able to do this. If I say "What's the oats of Chinese pigment octopus purses?" and it correctly parses the words, it's done its job there even though the phrase is nonsense. Given Apple's cautious rollout in terms of languages, I suspect this is half-decent. I live in an area notorious for difficult to understand accents (people here are frequently subtitled on national news, even when speaking English) so it should be a good place to test things

STEP 2: Contextually determine what I'm asking it to do.
There are only two answers here:
1) Manipulate an iOS system application. Its success at doing this will be measured by whether or not it correctly guesses that what I'm asking can be done by an iOS application, and whether or not it correctly translates the words into action. I am relatively certain that Apple has done a good job of getting Siri to understand synonyms, so I can say "Set up a reminder every Monday at noon for me to eat" versus "Set up a recurring reminder Mondays at noon for me to eat" versus "Remind me every Monday at lunch time to eat" and I'll bet it'll get all three correctly.

2) Asks the internet for information. Here's going to be the controversial bit. As best as I can tell they're using Wolfram for this. If you ask "How many Japanese Yen in a US Dollar?", it asks Wolfram or wherever, gives you the result. Siri isn't actually knowing or looking up the information, it's just querying an API and trusting the result. So if I ask something that Wolfram can't understand, it's not going to work. If I were to ask a complex question like "In general, how popular were re-elected US presidents 30 months into their term?", Siri could successfully parse the question, successfully realize that it needs to ask the internet, and still fail because Wolfram will fail.

So unfortunately whether or not Siri "succeeds" for a lot of people will depend on external services. Hopefully Apple has invested in as many key partnerships as possible in order to get the best results possible, if they're not willing to invest themselves into knowledge systems.

But that's not any different than a language parser where it uses a combination of phrases to lead to a result.

Right, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a big deal if the combination of their software and their training data results in a language parser that understands the great bulk of all phrases people use to trigger a given result (or intelligently adapts to user feedback and learns as time goes on), while it's not a big deal if it simply understands one or two pre-programmed phrases.

One of the most common definitions of an AI is a Turing Test, even if it's possible to imagine a system that passes the Turing Test but isn't very intelligent beyond that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

But that's not any different than a language parser where it uses a combination of phrases to lead to a result.

Okay, so how is a language parser that makes decisions different to an artificial intelligence? Obviously its not self aware, and I don't think it has the ability to learn, but does that mean it should not be considered an artificial intelligence? It seems to me like people are getting caught up on semantics.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Okay, so how is a language parser that makes decisions different to an artificial intelligence? Obviously its not self aware, and I don't think it has the ability to learn, but does that mean it should not be considered an artificial intelligence? It seems to me like people are getting caught up on semantics.

That's not making a decision. It's checking for a combination of key words and then sending you to the right result.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

"Artificial Intelligence" is an oxymoron IMO.. even software that "learns" is learning based on it's programming, based on some sort of algorithm.

"Intelligence Impersonator" would be a better description of actual existing software that is called an "AI."

Other than that, AI is science fiction.

 

[Tron 2.0]

Ordered Friday afternoon from Apple. Stil preparing for shipment but says Delivers Oct 14. Doesn't it have to come from China? Oh well, maybe tomorrow. First world problems and whatnot.

Mine is still "Preparing Items." Makes me sad and angry.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's not making a decision. It's checking for a combination of key words and then sending you to the right result.

I see you like playing the semantics game.

Yes it checks for a key combination of key words and sends you to the right result. How does it judge which is the right result, though? It makes a decision.

 

[Zeth]

Mine is still "Preparing Items." Makes me sad and angry.

From Apple? I don't remember having that status but I might not have checked for 48hrs.

 

[Tron 2.0]

From Apple? I don't remember having that status but I might not have checked for 48hrs.

Sorry, "Processing Items." It's the one before Preparing for Shipment.

I ordered mine Friday morning.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I see you like playing the semantics game.

Yes it checks for a key combination of key words and sends you to the right result. How does it judge which is the right result, though? It makes a decision.

That's not semantics. Have you ever worked with writing your own parser?

 

[AbsoluteZero]

So Siri wouldn't work for half of what I'd ask it if cell data is turned off and I'm not in range of a wi-fi hotspot?

That's pretty shitty.

Edit: The more I think about it the more than makes sense. Carry on.

 

[Sarye]

Ordered from Verizon.

Email says delivered by 14th. Just checked the order status online and it says delivered by the 21st.

Rage! Anyone else from Verizon seeing the same thing?

 

[magicstop]

"What's the oats of Chinese pigment octopus purses?"

3.5

I live in an area notorious for difficult to understand accents (people here are frequently subtitled on national news, even when speaking English) so it should be a good place to test things

This, I am curious about. I wonder how much accent will mess things up. I live in the south of the US, so there are a lot of people that I hear everyday who I could imagine having trouble with this. Subtitled national news, Stumpo? Where abouts in the world are ye from?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's not semantics. Have you ever worked with writing your own parser?

No, and I imagine that's precisely why Siri sounds amazing to me.

 

[Raitosaito]

That's not making a decision. It's checking for a combination of key words and then sending you to the right result.

I think you are forgetting humans also do that but in a more sophisticated manner. So technically it is making a decision.

We go to a dictionary when someone ask for a definition we don't know, but Siri allocates all of that because it's more rudimentary.

 

[Xamdou]

My order from ATT shows:

Your order contains items that are not yet available for shipping. When the pre-ordered items are available, we'll process and then ship all items in your order at the same time.

So the chances of getting it this Friday is impossible.

Anyone else ordered from ATT? And did everyone who ordered from Apple getting shipping details already?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Even if your order is listed as "Preparing for Shipment" it may have already been shipped/have a tracking number. Go to UPS.com/Fedex.com, track by reference # and put in your phone number, country and zip code. (This works no matter where you ordered from.)

Doesn't work for my phone yet but my wife's shows up.

I could only find my wife's phone (which I already had the tracking number for), but not mine.

So strange

 

[Ace Harding]

Anyone else ordered from ATT? And did everyone who ordered from Apple getting shipping details already?

Ordered from Apple, says "Preparing for Shipment." No shipping details yet (I think you get those when the status is "shipped." Says "Delivers Oct 14."

I cannot freaking wait until Friday. Been using an old 3G that is so slow it's nearly unusable.

 

[KtSlime]

But that's not any different than a language parser where it uses a combination of phrases to lead to a result.

Eh, so is a language parser an Artificial Inteligence? If not, what is it? Is an AI nothing more than an intelligence made by man? What is intelligence? Does a dog have it? Does a fly? Is it important to be able to recognize the beauty of a sunset or to compose a poem? Is being mindful of your capabilities and observant of the context of the situation enough? What about the actions of a dog exhibit intelligence? What does Siri need to do to conform to your understanding of intelligence? Can complex mimicry with flexibility in the delivery and random errors in transmission be considered intelligence? Is a toddler intelligent? How does it exhibit this intelligence? Does a child singing a song that he likes exhibit this concept? We know the child learned it from someone else, and is simply mimicking, if that is the case, is it his like of the song that demonstrates intelligence? Perhaps he sings the song because of how often he heard the song, or an association that he made with singing the song and a particular condition, star spangled banner at a game - if a piece of software can associate concepts to situations based on circumstances does this demonstrate an AI?

If it works well enough for people to use it, it will get better. I don't know if Siri hit it out of the park or not, but I do know there has to be a tipping point. A point where adoption occurs inspite of its shortcomings, and will lead to the improvement overall. Can you imagine if people complained about the first computers and their lacking? Art can't be made on a black and white screen. BASIC isn't a real programming language. Too expensive. Etc.

So Marty, how bout it, at what point will Siri be of value, and at what point will it not just be smoke and mirrors but a real "live" artificial intelligence.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Right, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a big deal if the combination of their software and their training data results in a language parser that understands the great bulk of all phrases people use to trigger a given result (or intelligently adapts to user feedback and learns as time goes on), while it's not a big deal if it simply understands one or two pre-programmed phrases.

One of the most common definitions of an AI is a Turing Test, even if it's possible to imagine a system that passes the Turing Test but isn't very intelligent beyond that.

I think what Siri is doing is great from a natural language point of view, but I don't see it making decisions at this point. It's a much more sophisticated language parser than it is an AI from what I can tell. I haven't seen the source code, nor know the limitations of what Siri can do, but simply asking things, having it parse the language and giving me a result, doesn't strike me as decision making. Now if it starts adapting and changing based off what I do, then we can start exploring the AI route of decision making.

No, and I imagine that's precisely why Siri sounds amazing to me.

Siri is definitely amazing from a natural language point of view. I'm not trying to downplay it by any means.

 

[GashPrex]

I would note that I type into Wolfram Alpha, "will it rain today?" and it can't answer me - but if i type in "what is the weather today?" it can tell me. So Siri is doing something...

and a side, note I tried it again and it could answer "will it rain today?"

 

[Marty Chinn]

Eh, so is a language parser an Artificial Inteligence? If not, what is it? Is an AI nothing more than an intelligence made by man? What is intelligence? Does a dog have it? Does a fly? Is it important to be able to recognize the beauty of a sunset or to compose a poem? Is being mindful of your capabilities and observant of the context of the situation enough? What about the actions of a dog exhibit intelligence? What does Siri need to do to conform to your understanding of intelligence? Can complex mimicry with flexibility in the delivery and random errors in transmission be considered intelligence? Is a toddler intelligent? How does it exhibit this intelligence? Does a child singing a song that he likes exhibit this concept? We know the child learned it from someone else, and is simply mimicking, if that is the case, is it his like of the song that demonstrates intelligence? Perhaps he sings the song because of how often he heard the song, or an association that he made with singing the song and a particular condition, star spangled banner at a game - if a piece of software can associate concepts to situations based on circumstances does this demonstrate an AI?

If it works well enough for people to use it, it will get better. I don't know if Siri hit it out of the park or not, but I do know there has to be a tipping point. A point where adoption occurs inspite of its shortcomings, and will lead to the improvement overall. Can you imagine if people complained about the first computers and their lacking? Art can't be made on a black and white screen. BASIC isn't a real programming language. Too expensive. Etc.

So Marty, how bout it, at what point will Siri be of value, and at what point will it not just be smoke and mirrors but a real "live" artificial intelligence.

Where did I say it wouldn't be of value? I think there's plenty of value in Siri. I was just disagreeing that it was somehow making decisions that was different from a language parser. I see it just parsing the language and connecting you to a predetermined destination of results rather than any decisions being made.

 

[Casp0r]

It says Siri requires internet access ...

Is that for finding local places and the weather? Or is it for voice processing?

So Marty, how bout it, at what point will Siri be of value, and at what point will it not just be smoke and mirrors but a real "live" artificial intelligence.

It'll be 'of value' when it can accurately >95% understand everyone immediately without an internet connection. Something I find hard to believe Apple has cracked using mobile phone hardware.

 

[GashPrex]

Wait, people here expected Siri, without an internet connection, to answer all the factual questions conceivable? Really?

 

[Number45]

First thing I'm going to ask Siri: "Play a random album".

Wait, people here expected Siri, without an internet connection, to answer all the factual questions conceivable? Really?

Absolutely. If my Siri doesn't predictively have the weather for the next 7 days for every known location on the planet I'm demanding my money back.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I would note that I type into Wolfram Alpha, "will it rain today?" and it can't answer me - but if i type in "what is the weather today?" it can tell me. So Siri is doing something...

and a side, note I tried it again and it could answer "will it rain today?"

Damn it! You just caused me to spend the last 20 minutes asking Wolfram dumb questions. It surprisingly had answers for most of them!

 

[Evlar]

First thing I'm going to ask Siri: "Play a random album".


Absolutely. If my Siri doesn't predictively have the weather for the next 7 days for every known location on the planet I'm demanding my money back.

"Siri, I want my money back."

 

[Takamura-San]

For those that have issues with changing the address on SPRINT.

CALL NOW.

They are changing the addresses now, but it has to be today if you want your phone on friday.

HEADS UP.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Stinks that Applecare+ is offered now when I bought my Applecare around a month ago...I would have much rathered gone with Applecare+.

Funny that the one complementary replacement thing has come and gone and I haven't broken my iPhone once...I'll probably break it on the way home tonight.

 

[KHarvey16]

Doesn't it use the remote Nuance servers to do speech to text and then process that text through Siri? As far as I know all phones do speech to text this way.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Stinks that Applecare+ is offered now when I bought my Applecare around a month ago...I would have much rathered gone with Applecare+.

Funny that the one complementary replacement thing has come and gone and I haven't broken my iPhone once...I'll probably break it on the way home tonight.

Apple Care+ doesn't seem worth it unless you plan to break your phone once every two years. If you don't, then you're better off not buying it at all. Even if you do, you only save $50.

 

[jts]

Speaking of Nuance, I wonder about the mic button found on the keyboard on some betas or something. Or is it still there?

It'd be a waste not to also have simple voice to text across the board if it has voice recognition.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Where did I say it wouldn't be of value? I think there's plenty of value in Siri. I was just disagreeing that it was somehow making decisions that was different from a language parser. I see it just parsing the language and connecting you to a predetermined destination of results rather than any decisions being made.

It's actively deciding what to do with the language once it's parsed. All decisions made by software are based on some pre-determined set of rules, whether coded statically, or "learned" based on algorithms, or user input.

And natural language parsers ARE AI.. as far as the term is used in the real world (since actual AI is science fiction and not really possible anyways.)

It's an AI just as much as enemies in a video game represent AI.. meaning.. not REALLY "artificial intelligence", but software that attempts to impersonate intelligence.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Doesn't it use the remote Nuance servers to do speech to text and then process that text through Siri? As far as I know all phones do speech to text this way.

Wait everything goes through the server? If I want to set an alarm clock or make a note, it has to go through their server to process?

 

[Zeth]

Track by reference not working for me I have faith in Apple that the majority of the orders in the first 24 hours before the delivery estimate changed will indeed arrive on time.

 

[Technosteve]

Wait, people here expected Siri, without an internet connection, to answer all the factual questions conceivable? Really?

Hey man if you have the Hitchhikers Guide App man for iOS zed zed alpha not five then yeah.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's actively deciding what to do with the language once it's parsed. All decisions made by software are based on some pre-determined set of rules, whether coded statically, or "learned" based on algorithms, or user input.

And natural language parsers ARE AI.. as far as the term is used in the real world (since actual AI is science fiction and not really possible anyways.)

It's an AI just as much as enemies in a video game represent AI.. meaning.. not REALLY "artificial intelligence", but software that attempts to impersonate intelligence.

Well if you're trying to classify that all language parsers are AI, then there's nothing really to debate about. It's if you distinguish there is a difference between a language parser and an AI is where I will debate that Siri falls more on the level of language parser than an AI. The original context was differentiating an AI from a language parser so I jumped in on that discussion.

 

[JackEtc]

Still no courier, ship date, or tracking number on the Verizon Site (all left blank), but it still says "Status: Your pre-order will deliver by 10/14/2011".

Getting a little nervous.

 

[Evlar]

Well if you're trying to classify that all language parsers are AI, then there's nothing really to debate about. It's if you distinguish there is a difference between a language parser and an AI is where I will debate that Siri falls more on the level of language parser than an AI. The original context was differentiating an AI from a language parser so I jumped in on that discussion.

The Turing Test is one of the bedrock standards in Artificial Intelligence research. It is a natural language test.

The Turing test is a test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behavior. In Turing's original illustrative example, a human judge engages in a natural language conversation with a human and a machine designed to generate performance indistinguishable from that of a human being. All participants are separated from one another. If the judge cannot reliably tell the machine from the human, the machine is said to have passed the test. The test does not check the ability to give the correct answer, it checks how closely the answer resembles typical human answers. The conversation is limited to a text-only channel such as a computer keyboard and screen so that the result is not dependent on the machine's ability to render words into audio.[2]

By this stand-by reference of what it means to achieve "Artificial Intelligence", something like Siri is most certainly an exercise in applied machine intelligence. Another recent example is something like Watson, the IBM project which participated in (and won) a championship match of Jeopardy. The point of the project wasn't to exhibit encyclopedic knowledge- any computer with access to the internet can do that. It was to exhibit natural language skills: The ability to understand what Alex Trebek was asking, perform the query, then respond in comprehensible English (even stylized English: Jeopardy-speak). Siri is of the same class.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Well if you're trying to classify that all language parsers are AI, then there's nothing really to debate about. It's if you distinguish there is a difference between a language parser and an AI is where I will debate that Siri falls more on the level of language parser than an AI. The original context was differentiating an AI from a language parser so I jumped in on that discussion.

Well it's not a very useful term in the first place since real "AI" is science fiction. Even in general use it's a muddled term.

Either way, it's attempting to MIMIC intelligence. Ask it a question, it "figures out" what you were asking, and the context of it, and performs an action.

So conceptually it's AI.. and since there's no such thing as a true AI.. well.. what's the point of this discussion again? Language PARSERS maybe aren't AI.. but the way in which the software RESPONDS to your questions? That's certainly what people consider AI.

 

[giga]

Wait everything goes through the server? If I want to set an alarm clock or make a note, it has to go through their server to process?

Nuance speech dictation isn't local.

 

[KtSlime]

Where did I say it wouldn't be of value? I think there's plenty of value in Siri. I was just disagreeing that it was somehow making decisions that was different from a language parser. I see it just parsing the language and connecting you to a predetermined destination of results rather than any decisions being made.

As an compromise, I will agree that Siri is not much more than a language parser, if you agree that humans are not much more than reality parsers.

All our decision making basically boils down to this:

Read variables
Compare variable set to known variable sets
If variable set matches sufficiently to other variable set
Was prior variable set experienced
If yes
If experienced again how will you feel
If Good
Is there another reason it should not be done
If no
Do
If yes
Go back to an earlier step.
If Bad
Is there another reason it should be done
If no
Don't do
If yes
...etc.

We are complex machines, and many of our characteristics, our expressiveness, is a result of random errors in the transmission, reproduction, association, and parsing of our reality. Don't begrudge Siri because someone programmed a few shortcuts. If those shortcuts end up being a handicap, they will get replaced when they can, and when they prove to be beneficial everyone will be trying to reproduce them.

Casp0r: You seem to have unrealistic standards. I believe that the Internet connection is needed because Apple is crowd-sourcing the questions to better improve Siri's accuracy, and to gage what people expect of Siri and where to expand features - that's what I'd be doing if I was in charge of the Siri project, and Forstall is a pretty smart guy, he probably thought of the same thing too.

 

[Big Baybee]

Time to put my old iPhone 3g to rest. Goodnight sweet prince.

 

[chumps]

I think the really interesting stuff with Siri is going to be one, two years down the road after Siri has talked to millions and millions of people. It's good now, but I think it'll be unreal down the road.

 

[Kusagari]

Time to put my old iPhone 3g to rest. Goodnight sweet prince.

Mine is more like an old hag at this point with a broken home button.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I'd say the part where it can understand context to a certain extent is a pretty big deal.

That's just marketing. Siri/Apple hasn't invented brand new algorithms that computer scientists haven't heard of before. They just packaged them up. In other words, I expect a lot of people to be disappointed come Friday.

 

[Eric WK]

Still no courier, ship date, or tracking number on the Verizon Site (all left blank), but it still says "Status: Your pre-order will deliver by 10/14/2011".

Getting a little nervous.

Why? It's Tuesday.

 

[Cyan]

Wait, how is it not an artificial intelligence? It may not be some incredible Star Trek stuff, but I don't see what makes it not an AI.

Depends on how you define AI.

 

[Big Baybee]

Mine is more like an old hag at this point with a broken home button.

Mine was a trooper. No real damage except for a small crack in the screen which happened recently.

 

[mojiimbo]

My order from ATT shows:



So the chances of getting it this Friday is impossible.

Anyone else ordered from ATT? And did everyone who ordered from Apple getting shipping details already?

Why do you say that? They updated their order status input page with a message saying that they plan to ship them out around Thursday.

 

[Tron 2.0]

Why? It's Tuesday.

My order from Apple is the same way and I am getting nervous too.

To get it here Friday, if they ship tomorrow, they'd need to use 2-Day...

Coincidence that we're both on Verizon? I ordered mine direct from Apple, though.