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[LCfiner]

The pre tackles this a different way since the whole environment is really a sophisticated browser/renderer architecture. What you will end up with is something that is like having Firefox with plugins as opposed to a bunch of distinct applications. I certainly appreciate what they've done with the Pre and its not quite as limited for certain applications as I thought it would be - but there are still quite a few things that it doesn't do quite so well.

it looks like there's a couple ways to jump between apps (or app alerts) quickly on the pre. there's the whole card thing, plus I think I saw a demo with another type of bar that allows you to interact with other apps and see alerts.

at this point, that's the main area the iPhone lags. it's not that it NEEDS multitasking, it's that it needs a more elegant way to handle system messages and alerts.

 

[Phoenix]

it looks like there's a couple ways to jump between apps (or app alerts) quickly on the pre. there's the whole card thing, plus I think I saw a demo with another type of bar that allows you to interact with other apps and see alerts.

at this point, that's the main area the iPhone lags. it's not that it NEEDS multitasking, it's that it needs a more elegant way to handle system messages and alerts.

Yeah I agree. THe modal dialog system is complete ASS... I absolutely hate it and keep sending that feedback to Apple every release. Its not like the OS cannot just use Core to scale the current app since its just a GL surface anyways then put in another UIWindowDelegate right below it the exact same way as the pre.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Was anyone here a sidekick user?

 

[Blackhead]

That doesn't make any sense. How were you going to transfer support data transfer to your clients running background applications before? What was the free alternative that background applications had for delivering data for background apps that wouldn't require a service infrastructure? Push is actually CHEAPER for the developer as they control when they deliver messages to their customers (predictable) as opposed to the poll method that a background application would provide? Millions of iPhone applications would otherwise be polling the developers server infrastructure looking for updates - how is that not a higher variable cost?


Poll Scenario:

My app starts and runs in the background and polls a server/web service waiting for whats new.

Downloads new data.


Push Scenario:

My application sits never touching the network until it is notified by my server that there is new data. Customer may never even download that data, but even if they do they will only ever his that service in response to my push notice.

Ok, I'm understanding you now (I'm no developer)... but how about Erica's computing/power argument:

The problem with push, at least from a developer point of view, is scaling. Background computing doesn't need to scale. A backgroundable application might involve an investment in coding, figuring out how to let an application do its work without presenting a user interface, to sleep when it's not active, and to generally be a good citizen. But when that coding is done, the app runs on each device using the local CPU. Should a developer deploy an extra 10,000 copies, there's no further investment involved other than increased technical support.

Push computing does scale. Whether you have 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 users matters. That's because developers must provide a service layer that handles the operations for every unit sold. The more users supported, the greater the costs will be. Consider that these services need to be completely reliable and that consumers will not be tolerant of extended downtimes.

It's just more crying about background apps. Logic doesn't play into it.

It could yes, but users want it to 'just work'. Users aren't clamoring for applications to run in the background and in the devices that they do, users complain about memory and battery issues that are caused by developer apps running in the background going about their 'business' that is clearly so unimportant that the users never surface the application.

The only, and I mean only thing that's missing from the stack right now is an interface for applications to get notifications generated for them when they move in and out of GPS ranges to allow location based applications. Outside of that, I'm actually against background applications. I don't want apps hogging battery and CPU unless I'm actively using it. There have been few use cases where its made sense and the major one (mail/IM) is being addressed in OS3.0. Beyond that, GPS LBS/stalker apps are the only thing that has a 'legitimate' complaint about not being able to do its business with the current approach.

Spoiler

It's like copy/paste all over again

Ugh. Pandora! The iPhone already has background apps - it would be a lot less pleasurable to use if you couldn't play the iPod app while surfing the web or running any other app. I'd just like that option for Pandora (or Wunder radio etc) as well.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Spoiler

It's like copy/paste all over again

Just out of curiosity, what you do you mean by that?
I see it thrown around a lot whenever brings up a gripe about the iPhone.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Can anyone give me a hand with this Matte Nano theme?
Theres a few icons that I want to use from a different theme, but when I put add them they are the normal size, instead of the smaller size.

... even though they are the same size as the other ones (59x60)


EDIT:
NVM just realized that it was the canvas size that were the same size.

 

[Dez]

Just out of curiosity, what you do you mean by that?
I see it thrown around a lot whenever brings up a gripe about the iPhone.

he means that 'apple fanboys' would dismiss the need for copy and paste, or say it's difficult to implement, yada yada.. similar to now how they dismiss the need for background processes. i agree in some respects.. but i happen to agree that push notifications is a good work around to background processes, given the poor battery life of smartphones in general.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Multi-tasking is a fancy way of saying that you have multiple things going on that you're not doing.

Other than Pandora and other music streaming, is there anything else we're missing with background processes that push notifications doesn't fix?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Was anyone here a sidekick user?

I had the first version of the Sidekick back in the day.

 

[LCfiner]

Multi-tasking is a fancy way of saying that you have multiple things going on that you're not doing.

Other than Pandora and other music streaming, is there anything else we're missing with background processes that push notifications doesn't fix?

battery guzzling GPS tracking apps

and, let's be honest, if Pandora radio is the sole reason why one needs background apps then, guess what, one does not need background apps.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Other than Pandora and other music streaming, is there anything else we're missing with background processes that push notifications doesn't fix?

Yeah, Imagine trying IM and browse the net at the same time.

 

[LCfiner]

Yeah, Imagine trying IM and browse the net at the same time.

the push notification can pop up a dialog saying you got a message. you got the IM app and respond.

it's not as seamless as the Android system alert bar, I know, but it is possible to get dialog box popups from push notifications (not just icon badges) so you can do both.

and going back to safari after sending the message only takes a second or two.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yeah, Imagine trying IM and browse the net at the same time.

What's different between doing this as a background process vs as a notification, other than the background process murdering your battery life?

I agree with LCFiner that an Android style alert bar would be better than the dialogs they are doing. The iPhone already has that design in place, but they aren't using it (when you're in the middle of a phone call and try to do something else, a green bar stays at the top of the screen that you can click to go back to the phone call).

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I had the first version of the Sidekick back in the day.

The Sidekick2 doesn't get nearly enough credit.
It was such a great phone.

It even had the equivalent of MobileME for free.
Even some some stuff MM doesn't do like Note syncing.
It also handled alerts in the status bar exactly the Palm PRE is getting so much praise for.

You could also change the vibration and color of the indicator light.
Mine would vibrate once softly and flash the light orange when I got an IM.
Pulse 2 lightly and light up blue when I got an email.
And Pulse 3 times hard and light up red and blue when I got a text.

It's such a shame people dismiss what Danger did with the SK because of the marketing.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

the push notification can pop up a dialog saying you got a message. you got the IM app and respond.

That will be about the worst, most annoying thing to deal with.
It's constantly interrupting what you're doing. And it's going to happen a lot if you use IM heavily.

The messages should just go directly to the app itself and the phone should vibrate.
And you should be able to hop directly into your IM app without having to be prompted first.

And no, it doesn't take 2 or 3 seconds to hop from safari to beejive.
It takes like 15ish seconds. Depending on how many chats you have opened and how many messages you've received.

Push will be great for some things, basically anything that you aren't going to be using heavily, or things that aren't going to have an assload of notifications.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Yeah, Imagine trying IM and browse the net at the same time.

irealquicksms does this perfectly. a small window pops up that you can type on/cancel and the browser doesnt close and it's not too intrusive

 

[kozmo7]

nm

 

[Deleted member 22576]

irealquicksms does this perfectly. a small window pops up that you can type on/cancel and the browser doesnt close and it's not too intrusive

I think that's a pretty good idea for SMS (I only get like maybe 10 or so a day.)
But for things that are gonna be coming in rapidly and in huge quantities, anything thats gonna be popping up Vista UAC style isn't going to be too pleasing during everday use.

I've voiced my concerns before.
And just reiterated them a few posts up.
This isn't a minor inconvenience, it's a methed of communication that this Phone doesn't support 100%.

 

[LCfiner]

That will be about the worst, most annoying thing to deal with.
It's constantly interrupting what you're doing. And it's going to happen a lot if you use IM heavily.

The messages should just go directly to the app itself and the phone should vibrate.
And you should be able to hop directly into your IM app without having to be prompted first.

And no, it doesn't take 2 or 3 seconds to hop from safari to beejive.
It takes like 15ish seconds. Depending on how many chats you have opened and how many messages you've received.

Push will be great for some things, basically anything that you aren't going to be using heavily, or things that aren't going to have an assload of notifications.

I'm not sure if you're arguing for background apps or for a better notification system on the iPhone. because we disagree the former but we would agree on the latter.

because background apps aren't needed to have a notification bar like Android, allowing you to get a notification in a small area of the screen and respond when you want. push can do that job. but the OS needs to have that alert bar gain that functionality.

conversely, background apps, if designed poorly, can totally deliver annoying messages when you don't want them and cover your existing app. so you get the worst of both worlds. decreased battery life and poor message handling

I'm just saying that the iPhone's problem right now is that it doesn't use the status bar to give you those notifications. it pops up a big bubble on screen and you have to dismiss it to continue. if Apple improves that part of the OS (maybe in 4.0, or 3.x we can hope) that would be a huge UI improvement.

on another note, I hope IM software can work out a way to deliver a sound or buzz via the push notification (it's supposed to be part of the spec) so you don't need to get that annoying pop up for each message that pops up, as per my example.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You can have the notification only push a sound, but no dialog. Guaranteed that every IM app will have this option.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Well yeah, if they designed a system that worked the way I feel it should then I'd be okay with the results regardless of the method.

 

[LCfiner]

Well yeah, if they designed a system that worked the way I feel it should then I'd be okay with the results regardless of the method.

see, that's why I like these discussions. because although the initial complaint is about lack of backgrounding (I felt this way, too at one point) it becomes clear that the problem is not with backgrounding, per se, but the way the iPhone lets you respond to alerts. it's the most primitive part of the OS, imo.

so the conversation gets deeper into the nerdier aspects of the UI, which is what I like talking about in these threads anyway

@Liu Kang. I hoped that would be the case but it's good to get the confirmation.

 

[jowa]

3.0 beta 3 is out. even smoother and faster than before!

 

[Solideliquid]

3.0 beta 3 is out. even smoother and faster than before!

How do us ordinary folks get it?

 

[arab]

i can't wait for the new iphone

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

How do us ordinary folks get it?

lol

 

[Ollie Pooch]

The Sidekick2 doesn't get nearly enough credit.
It was such a great phone.

i had a sidekick2, it was awesome. dropped it down the stairs though and had to upgrade to the 3. the only downsides were the crappy camera and no 3g.

this post just confirms how clumsy i am with phones, i'm always breaking them

 

[Phoenix]

3.0 beta 3 is out. even smoother and faster than before!

Sons of bitches broke a lot of code for me....

 

[suikodan]

3.0 beta 3 is out. even smoother and faster than before!

Woah, hopefully it'll resolve the multiple slowdowns and crashes that I've been experiencing since upgrading to 3.0.

How do us ordinary folks get it?

Get in touch with someone who is in the Apple dev program.

 

[AirBrian]

Pretty obvious this was happening, but AT&T is trying to get Apple to extend iPhone exclusivity until 2011.

When Randall Stephenson became AT&T Inc.'s chief executive, the company had just started offering the iPhone. The blockbuster device has since reeled in millions of new customers and helped revitalize the telecom giant's brand.

But AT&T's exclusive deal to carry the iPhone in the U.S. expires next year, according to people familiar with the matter, and Mr. Stephenson is now in discussions with Apple Inc. to get an extension until 2011.

An Apple spokeswoman declined to comment, saying only, "We have a great relationship with AT&T."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123973238611017715.html

 

[neojubei]

Pretty obvious this was happening, but AT&T is trying to get Apple to extend iPhone exclusivity until 2011.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123973238611017715.html

Just great and to think I will switch to ATT if a new iphone comes out this june. oh well i hope iphone becomes available through other carries especially t-mobile.

 

[neptunes]

Apple would sell a lot more handsets if they partnered with other carriers

 

[Robobandit]

Apple would sell a lot more handsets if they partnered with other carriers

Of course they would.. but unless other carriers are willing to give them the level of control over the device as AT&T has, I'd never buy those versions.

iPhone on Verizon with vcast music, vz navigator and other verizon apps loaded on the phone = no thanks.

plus, GSM allows them to reach more markets than WCDMA.

Maybe when more carriers are on one of the new upcoming standards we'll see multi-carrier iPhones.

The only other choice given the current phone hardware would be t-mobile, and their 3g coverage isn't worth mentioning yet.

Apple's production of iPhones is cheaper with only having to focus on one radio type, so they would have to weigh the potential for increased sales against increased production costs and increased competition for prospective iphone customers.

I'm sure there's an economic reason they are AT&T exclusive right now.

The real win for everybody would be wresting control of cellular phones away from the carriers and their networks. Personally, I don't think there should be such a thing as exclusive devices. People should be able to buy any phone they like and use it on any network they want without restriction.

 

[Ril]

Ok guys, I've been using my iPhone on my Vista PC for several months now. I just got a MacBook Pro today, and I wanna go ahead and sync up my iPhone with the MacBook so that I can start messing with the MobileMe integration. How would I go about syncing up my iPhone with iTunes on the MacBook without it clearing out all the songs saved on my iPhone?
Also, what would be the easiest way to go about moving my iTunes library from my PC to my MacBook?

 

[Ril]

Ok guys, I've been using my iPhone on my Vista PC for several months now. I just got a MacBook Pro today, and I wanna go ahead and sync up my iPhone with the MacBook so that I can start messing with the MobileMe integration. How would I go about syncing up my iPhone with iTunes on the MacBook without it clearing out all the songs saved on my iPhone?
Also, what would be the easiest way to go about moving my iTunes library from my PC to my MacBook?

C'mon guys! I'm sure it's retardedly easy to do but I need help!

 

[Tamanon]

Apple would sell a lot more handsets if they partnered with other carriers

On the other hand, keeping Apple exclusive to ATT means they can control the secondary market a lot more, thus ensuring more full price purchases.

 

[LCfiner]

C'mon guys! I'm sure it's retardedly easy to do but I need help!

here's the deal. the iPhone considers itself to be a dumb copy of whatever is on your PC. you can't move stuff from the iPhone to the new Mac and it's viryually impossible to sync the iPhone to multiple computers.

In other words, focus on moving everything over to your new Mac from your PC. music, playlists, documents, etc. make the mac your main machine and move all docs over (well, music and itunes playlists, at least)

and once that's done, then have your iPhone sync to the new Mac. it will delete everything that's on it and replace it with the stuff on the new Mac.

clean break and you won't have issues after this.

 

[reggieandTFE]

C'mon guys! I'm sure it's retardedly easy to do but I need help!

I copied everything in my itunes folder to an external hard drive and copied that to the new computer. Re-synced my phone and authorized my new computer and everything worked out fine.

 

[MrOctober]

I copied everything in my itunes folder to an external hard drive and copied that to the new computer. Re-synced my phone and authorized my new computer and everything worked out fine.

Same here. You can't get your iPhone to recognize your Mac unless you erase all your music sadly. You'll have to get everything from your PC over to your Mac and then put it all back on your iPhone.

 

[GodfatherX]

guessing no updates on MMS for 3.0 for 2g iPhones?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

guessing no updates on MMS for 3.0 for 2g iPhones?

Yup, but 2+ of great additions is pretty much unprecedented.
It had to end sometime.

 

[goldenticket]

hey everyone, anyone have the Incase Power Slider for iPhone 3G. which is the case with the extra battery built in. thoughts?

 

[Keylime]

hey everyone, anyone have the Incase Power Slider for iPhone 3G. which is the case with the extra battery built in. thoughts?

I saw one in a store and that thing is THICK as hell. It would make your phone easily twice as thick.

I always wasn't too keen on the fact that you'd have to charge your phone with a standard mini USB cable instead of a normal iPod cable.

If you can deal with the tickness and the alternative charging method, than it's a good looking case with tons of function.

 

[GrimtekP21]

Can't wait for push, not quite so eager for copy paste

 

[mYm|17|]

Has anybody ever had a problem where you made ringtones, but for some reason they don't show up in your sounds on the phone after syncing them?

I have 18 in my ringtones folder, but only 15 show up on my phone.

 

[Sean]

Has anybody ever had a problem where you made ringtones, but for some reason they don't show up in your sounds on the phone after syncing them?

I have 18 in my ringtones folder, but only 15 show up on my phone.

Not sure but perhaps they are too long? I think there is a 35-40 second limit on them or something.

 

[mYm|17|]

Not sure but perhaps they are too long? I think there is a 35-40 second limit on them or something.

i think you're right, I just checked the ones that don't appear and they are just a bit over the 40 secs. Will redo them and see

 

[MrOctober]

i think you're right, I just checked the ones that don't appear and they are just a bit over the 40 secs. Will redo them and see

40 is the limit. But even if you make it 40 exactly sometimes they still don't work as they might be 40.1 or some bullshit. Best to go with 39 seconds .

 

[Marty Chinn]

40 is the limit. But even if you make it 40 exactly sometimes they still don't work as they might be 40.1 or some bullshit. Best to go with 39 seconds .

I don't get why you would make them that long when the phone will never play it that long when it rings.

 

[scorcho]

Not sure but perhaps they are too long? I think there is a 35-40 second limit on them or something.

Nope, I've copied over entire songs as ringtones just fine, although I'm not using iTunes to do it.

http://i-funbox.com/

I just take my mp3s, convert them to m4a files and rename them to m4r, then use ifunbox (great porno name) to copy it over as a ringtone.