iPhone - Official Thread
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Kung Fu Jedi
Member
mattiewheels said:
I'm not sure why people are saying this is a small improvement over the 3G. It really is A LOT more significant than last year's update, and a failrly major update to the 3G. Aside from the camera, video, Nike+, and compass updates, I think people are underselling the new processor, graphics capabilities, and memory.
aparisi2274
Member
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I think that most of your average everyday cel users aren't even going to care what the new internal specs are of the iPhone. They just want to see what new features have been added and to them it doesn't seem like a huge jump from the 3G launch.
jonnybryce
Member
Kung Fu Jedi said:
Even before seeing aparisi2274's reply my thoughts were that to the average user, a CPU bump doesn't matter. They see a compass, better camera, and something about Nike they'll never use. I think it's fair to say it's a small improvement, especially after the 3G being so minimal. 2 small updates in a row, can we expect every year to be minor improvements or will they're ever be a ::jaws drop to floor:: moment? I don't think anyone knows.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
What features were you guys looking for to make it "jaw dropping"? Were you hoping for the rumor of twin cameras for video conferencing to be true? I wasn't buying into those as they cropped up last year at exactly the same time, and I just didn't feel that it was a feature that Apple or AT&T were ready to implement yet. The only people I've heard dismiss this as a small update were those that were buying into those rumors.
Trust me, I don't think this is a super amazing, jaw dropping update either, but it is FAR more significant than last year, and overall pretty good. I also believe that the new processor, memory, and other tech bumps will become more evident over time though.
Trust me, I don't think this is a super amazing, jaw dropping update either, but it is FAR more significant than last year, and overall pretty good. I also believe that the new processor, memory, and other tech bumps will become more evident over time though.
jonnybryce
Member
A refreshed look wouldn't have hurt, especially a matte back. They tried the metal, they tried the plastic, I feel like matte is what we need.
Even if AT&T's network couldn't handle it, I think there should have been a front facing camera, for Wifi use. These "free texting via wifi" apps are hugely popular on iPod touches, so I don't think people would have a problem needing wifi to iChat. Sure, it's not as cool as over 3G but it's still cool.
As for other features? I'm not sure, but thankfully I'm not working for Apple's iPhone team. I suppose a way to run more than 1 app at a time wouldn't hurt, but I'm sure that's difficult to do implement on an OS with apps that aren't written for that purpose.
I am happy with the 3G features, hell those features + 3.0 is what finally got me to jump in, but I wasn't expecting such subtle changes. I do really, really hope that game developers make some beautiful games with the extra power. Raise the price to make up for the lower volume, whatever! Just do it.
I don't think so, I've never seen it. You should make one! We could use one.
Even if AT&T's network couldn't handle it, I think there should have been a front facing camera, for Wifi use. These "free texting via wifi" apps are hugely popular on iPod touches, so I don't think people would have a problem needing wifi to iChat. Sure, it's not as cool as over 3G but it's still cool.
As for other features? I'm not sure, but thankfully I'm not working for Apple's iPhone team. I suppose a way to run more than 1 app at a time wouldn't hurt, but I'm sure that's difficult to do implement on an OS with apps that aren't written for that purpose.
I am happy with the 3G
mrkgoo said:
I don't think so, I've never seen it. You should make one! We could use one.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I will admit I am a bit surprised that they didn't change the look at all. I thought there would be at least some cosmetic change to set off the new phone.
As for background Apps, I would be surprised if down the line they implemented them, but for the 3GS and newer phones only, since the increased memory and processing power would help in that area as well. It'll depend on how well the whole "Push" system works I suppose though.
I guess we'll have to wait to see if they ever implement video chat.
As for background Apps, I would be surprised if down the line they implemented them, but for the 3GS and newer phones only, since the increased memory and processing power would help in that area as well. It'll depend on how well the whole "Push" system works I suppose though.
I guess we'll have to wait to see if they ever implement video chat.
jonnybryce
Member
I hope they do.
Are you getting a 3GS?
Are you getting a 3GS?
jonnybryce
Member
Yes, and it's pretty awesome (also confusing @ AT&T). All that's blocking MMS on iPhones is literally a command in AT&T's system for every iPhone to block MMS, right?
One side of me would follow those steps to get MMS early, but the other would be horrified of something going wrong :/
One side of me would follow those steps to get MMS early, but the other would be horrified of something going wrong :/
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
jonnybryce said:
Yes. Having skipped the 3G last year because I didn't feel that it was a significant upgrade, I'm more than ready to upgrade this year.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
So I've been thinking a lot about upgrading this last week.
It was almost always my original plan to get to skip the second iPhone and upgrade when the third iteration came about.
I am incredibly hesitant to sign another 2 years with AT&T.
I have had a relatively good experience with the iPhone these last two years, but the fact it's tied to AT&T almost makes it not worth it. It's not until you really look back you realize just how shitty their network actually is.
Now that I'm free and have options open it's gonna take a lot more than the 3G S offers to get me coming back. Practically speaking, my 1st gen iPhone is more or less perfect. I've got it tweaked just the way I want and it still just works. Sure, it chugs more than often but I'm used to it. It's just such a fucking shame that the network the iPhone is tied to is the one thing making me want to just wash my hands of the whole thing and come back in a few years when it's on another carrier.
I gotta say, I've had more than one fantasy of switching to a Pre and an iPod Nano.
..but I'm also not familar with Sprint's network so that could be just as bad.
It was almost always my original plan to get to skip the second iPhone and upgrade when the third iteration came about.
I am incredibly hesitant to sign another 2 years with AT&T.
I have had a relatively good experience with the iPhone these last two years, but the fact it's tied to AT&T almost makes it not worth it. It's not until you really look back you realize just how shitty their network actually is.
Now that I'm free and have options open it's gonna take a lot more than the 3G S offers to get me coming back. Practically speaking, my 1st gen iPhone is more or less perfect. I've got it tweaked just the way I want and it still just works. Sure, it chugs more than often but I'm used to it. It's just such a fucking shame that the network the iPhone is tied to is the one thing making me want to just wash my hands of the whole thing and come back in a few years when it's on another carrier.
I gotta say, I've had more than one fantasy of switching to a Pre and an iPod Nano.
..but I'm also not familar with Sprint's network so that could be just as bad.
Marty Chinn
Member
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I'm not sure what I'm looking for but I do feel the update was minor to me. A new camera + video and digitcal compass doesn't feel as big to me as the speed boost to 3G and having GPS.
Because of that I was glad I waited till the 3G before jumping on an iPhone and now that I have a 3G, this recent update doesn't really give me any urge to upgrade. I get most of the stuff I want from the 3.0 update for free.
To me, had they made pretty much 3.0 exclusive to 3GS, then that would have been enough changes to make me jealous or amazed but the fact is I get a ton of changes for free already and in some ways it's like having a new updated phone.
Honestly, what would have made me jealous is if they added some of the features of the Pre to it.
Marty Chinn
Member
Heh, you could. I've always thought about telling someone I'll pay for your iPhone if you let me trade with you =)ckohler said:
jonnybryce
Member
Jtwo said:
:lol I just returned my Pre. It's still in a testing stage if you ask me, overall slow, some glitches and wiggly cheap hardware. But webOS is really nice and I love Sprint, they just have no phone that interests me now that I've owned a Pre and was disappointed with it. I don't know what I would do in your situation, I guess pray that Verizon announces it in January.
Marty Chinn said:
I really thought we'd see some synergy things in the iPhone 3GS. Blackberry is [trying] to do it, and the Pre does it, I thought we'd see some sync your contact goodness built in (specifically Facebook)...but I guess Apple is really in their own world, without a worry about these competing phones.
Well, the compass may have been a response to Android, but overall they're not really trying to match or distance their features from these competing phones, just continuing at their own pace.
Marty Chinn
Member
jonnybryce said:
I'm hoping that by the time my 2 years is up with AT&T, Apple will be trying to keep ahead of the Pre since the next Pre should be out around then. Hopefully the Pre 2 will be more robust and I'll have a choice if I should jump ship or continue on with an iPhone. I'm glad the 3GS isn't tempting so that I can wait till next summer to upgrade.
ckohler said:
Yeah, I've gotten a lot of contradicting responses to this. I've heard that your contract maps the exact IMEI + SIM combo to you, and at the end of the day they could come a knocking.
In practice though, some people report doing this. I'm pretty sure that AT&T's official line is that SIM switching at all in any case is bad and will result in mysterious poorly defined problems.
I'd consider it if I was stuck on a 3G. I'm on an EDGE and pretty sure I'll be springing for this at some point. I wanted to take a video camera to Japan, but I'm not sure if I have the balls to take a brand new device with me on a long trip backpacking across a country.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I have yet to get out to the Sprint store to demo the Pre.
I imagine I'll just end up sticking with my current iPhone until it quits.
I imagine I'll just end up sticking with my current iPhone until it quits.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Am I the only one who failed miserably at installing 3.0? I've spent two straight nights trying and failing. It takes FOREVER to recover from a botched FW update, so I give up.
Marty Chinn
Member
VanMardigan said:
How are you doing it?
Boo! Heads up to the Bing cashback whores, apparently cashback at AT&T only applies to new lines of service and therefore upgrading to the 3GS from the cashback site rules you ineligible (meaning even if the amount shows up, odds are it won't be released to you).
Sauce: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=716230&page=3
Sauce: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=716230&page=3
Keylime
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I'm pretty sure this would incite mass riots if it wasn't honored, as it showed up in peoples carts with that price, not to mention MS's little Bing advertising campaign would get flushed hardcore.Juice said:
...if they don't honor it, there will be blood! BLOOD!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
All of this talk about this being a small update is making me laugh out loud.
Do any of you remember what it was like to go from a Pentium 2 400MHz to a Pentium 3 600MHz? Or 128 MB of RAM to 256 MB?
Right now, tethered 3G is faster on a computer than it is on the phone. Much faster. The 3GS hardware will actually be able to keep up with the network speed now, and expect some awesome loading times for apps that right now can take over five seconds to load up.
Do any of you remember what it was like to go from a Pentium 2 400MHz to a Pentium 3 600MHz? Or 128 MB of RAM to 256 MB?
Right now, tethered 3G is faster on a computer than it is on the phone. Much faster. The 3GS hardware will actually be able to keep up with the network speed now, and expect some awesome loading times for apps that right now can take over five seconds to load up.
jonnybryce
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Of course. I'm really excited for the speed, SMS could take 8 seconds to load up on my brother's iPhone and I didn't understand how that was acceptable, and now it should be much, much better. We were just saying that feature or design-wise, it was some modest changes. "It's faster" won't convince the non-techie in the AT&T store to get the 3GS over the $99 3G, but something like a front facing camera (hate to bring this up again but an addition of this level) would. I'm just simply surprised that there weren't additions of that level.
Marty Chinn
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I honestly think the speed will be more noticeable than the memory upgrade but in the end both won't be that big of a deal. You're going to feel maybe that things are a bit snappier for the interface but I don't think you're going to notice it that much when it comes to apps. Developers are still going to develop with the slower iPhone in mind because let's face it, there are 40 million of those people and the 3GS base will be small for some time in comparison.
Plus your comparison is silly. Going from a Pentium 2 to a Pentium 3 is much bigger than going for a clock cycle increase on the same line of CPU. The iPod Touch has a significantly faster CPU and people don't really make a big deal out of that being faster than the iPhone. You're just looking at numbers rather than the real world net result which isn't going to be as big as you think it might be.
Marty Chinn said:
Noone actually has gone from an iPhone to an iPod touch, though.
I contend that this upgrade to the 3G S is a bigger update than the 3G. People tend to disregard it, because it's the same physical design. It's a new processor with more RAM. This is the start of the next generation of iPhone. There will be apps eventually that this can run, but the others can't. Heck, it can edit video - scrubber and all. It's the next step in the development of the iPhone as a platform.
When you're picking up a phone that carries a seventy-eighty dollar minimum monthly plan over the course of two years, kicking in an extra hundred bucks for the latest revision seems like a drop in the bucket. I know that some will be shortsighted enough not to recognize that. These people make my head hurt.jonnybryce said:
how do you find out how much of a discount your school gets without having an email address there?
The AT&T site requires the address, and I don't think the apple education store reflects the service discount for whatever reason. I called AT&T Wireless today and they practically had no idea what I was talking about. They woman quite openly said "Wait, hold on, it's on the website? Lemme look it up..." and proceeded to read the page and tell me a bunch of shit I already knew.
I entered "jsmith@*school name*.edu, which I did just to test it and the AT&T site said I was eligible. but they require you to click through a confirmation in the email to see what the discount is. argh.
edit: and the more I read about the 3GS, the more excited I get. This thing sounds amazing.
The AT&T site requires the address, and I don't think the apple education store reflects the service discount for whatever reason. I called AT&T Wireless today and they practically had no idea what I was talking about. They woman quite openly said "Wait, hold on, it's on the website? Lemme look it up..." and proceeded to read the page and tell me a bunch of shit I already knew.
I entered "jsmith@*school name*.edu, which I did just to test it and the AT&T site said I was eligible. but they require you to click through a confirmation in the email to see what the discount is. argh.
edit: and the more I read about the 3GS, the more excited I get. This thing sounds amazing.
Marty Chinn
Member
LCfiner said:
My bad, I thought it was the same CPU with a clock speed increase. The articles I glanced at just said speed boost from 400 to 600 without saying it was a different CPU. However, that's not accurate to say that you can't get a 2 or 3 times speed increase with only a 50% clck speed increase. It really depends how things work in the OS.
I still stand that while it might feel a bit snappier in the main OS, you're not going to see most of the benefits from it since apps will cater to the older CPU.
Marty Chinn
Member
mrkgoo said:
Oh come on now, there are plenty of people that for some reason have both. I had no idea the Touch had a faster CPU till my friend who wants to dabble in iphone dev asked if he could use my iPhone to test code on to get real world performance even though he owns a touch which he at the time bought to do iPhone dev and didn't realize it.
It's going to be quite some time before apps take advantage of the speed increase because you don't want to alientate the 40 million existing users. You'll want a good experience on the existing iPhone because that's where your customers are. 3GS owners are going to be in the small minority for some time especially since the app store is a tough crowd as is.
The speed increase will be nice for the video editing, and make the overall OS feel snappier, but it's not like the current iphone is such a painful experience. It's fairly fast and functional as is so I really do think the benefits are not going to be that noticeable. Plus these stats are from Apple. How many times do we get performance increase numbers that pan out exactly as good as they claim? Hardly ever. twice as fast typicaly means just a bit faster in the real world.
Marty Chinn said:
Well, perhaps I was a bit harsh. Not many people have both to even really say there is a difference - and most apps don't show a difference, you're right. Actually, I have both an iPhone and an iPod touch.
I understand that you don't want to alienate the userbase, but it will happen eventually (but like on home PCs, the difference will only be noticeable in games).
I think the benefits will be noticeable to those who had an older iPhone. You're right, it's not painful (far from it), but there is definitely room for improvement in efficiency. Apps opening faster, less app crashes. What happens next year? 4.0 rolls around. They announce 'background apps', but whoops, not for iPhone 1st gen or iPhone 3G, because they can't handle it. The iPhone platform is moving faster than your traditional programming environment, in my opinion. So far it has been a new phone, and a new OS every year.
During the keynote, Apple made specific mention of a lot of things being faster than 'twice', but OVERALL, 2x was a good all round average number for the 'feel' of the extra snappy.
Marty Chinn
Member
mrkgoo said:
Sure maybe it's moving in that direction but I really don't think you'll see the benefit of the faster cpu and more memory within the next year. By the time that maybe it starts to show, the next iteration will be around, probably same cpu and memory but other new features to which is a great time to upgrade for 3G owners I think. Thus the point I'm making that I'd hardly point it out as significant enough to want to upgrade or a comparison of a difference from the first iPhone and 3G iphone compard to the 3G to the 3GS. Technically on paper it might be a stat that is a difference but when it comes down to it, I think the following:
3G + GPS > 3megapixel camera, video, compass
which to me means
iPhone -> 3G > 3G -> 3GS
I don't mind that though because if they're going to make slight upgrades each year to people, then the 2 year contract timeline is perfect because it really won't be worth it to upgrade until your contract is up. I can certainly see how someone with a first gen iPhone is excited to move to a 3GS, and I could understand someone who really wants the camera and video aspect would want a 3GS. But I also understand why people don't think it's that big of an update and if you don't care about the camera and video then it really isn't.
Marty Chinn said:
Oh I totally agree. I'm on a 3G (well that was the first to be released really internationally), and I think a two-year upgrade cycle is what they're aiming at, and what makes sense. Going from a 1st gen to a 3G was not a really strong move, but to a 3G S it is. I imagine next June, I will be itching :lol.
I agree with the two year thing.
I think the difference between the 3G->3G S is greater than iPhone ->3G.
Basically, I think the 3G->3G S:
3.2 mp autofocus camera
video recording
compass
voice control
inline volume controls
and faster processor/more RAM
Better battery life.
is a much better upgrade than iPhone ->3G:
New design (of course this meant better reception, which I could be taking for granted)
Non-recessed headphone jack
3G data rate (again, probably taking for granted, as I don't even use the 3G)
GPS (I think this was an important upgrade)
Better speakers
Another ambient light sensor
Better battery life
bolded for things I think were significant. Not to say a non-recessed jack wasn't a good thing, but probably on par with things like inline volume.
Actually, I have a Shure microphone remote thing, and I love it. To be able to control my iPhone more without taking it out of my pocket is pretty huge. With the 3G S I can change volume, make calls, start playing iPod and everything. It's not enough to make me get another one, especially since my iPhone 3G is an officially unlocked one, but if push came to shove, I probably would kill myself if I had to. I hope the NZ iPhone 3G S (or future iterations) is still fully unlocked.
I would probably say that a LOT of the upgrade 'feel' during iPhone 3G launch is probably attributed to the appstore launch at the same time, the introduction of it internationally, and the new design. None of this actually make the 3G a 'better' phone than the original. I realise 3G is probably the biggest change out of anything hardware since they started, but again, I'm probably taking it for granted, since I don't use 3G.
Another thing to mention is that MMS is being locked out of the original iPhone, another point towards the fast progression of the iPhone platform. It's minor, but it shows that there is already things that the older iPhones can't do. People will program for MMS features, GPS features, and so on, so why not compass, and faster processor features?
mrkgoo said:
Iphone 3G -> 3G S is a much better upgrade than Iphone -> 3G going by what you bolded.
Video recording by itself is a reason to upgrade, and would not be possible on the current 3G hardware. Hence the faster processor and more ram, which also leads to faster app loading and much better performance overall. The 3.2 Megapixel camera, compass, voice control, inline volume controls are just icing to the video recording cake.
EDGE iPhone
Release: 6/29/07
CPU Speed: 412 MHz
Ram: 128 MB
iPhone 3G
Release 7/11/08
CPU Speed: 412 MHz
Ram: 128 MB
iPhone 3GS
Release 6/19/09
CPU Speed: 600 MHz
Ram: 256 MB
So nearly 200 MHz more CPU Speed + Double the memory is a hefty leap.
Marty Chinn
Member
Xamdou said:
Like I said before, good on paper, but what's the point if it's not taken advantage of? The iPod Touch has a faster CPU but you don't see it being taken advantage of. You're not going to see developers exploiting the faster performance and more memory at the expense of 40 million existing iPhone users out there so I see it as more of a non factor than a huge reason to upgrade.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
When it doesn't take 30 seconds to open a text message, that is it taking advantage.
Marty Chinn
Member
Jtwo said:
When it takes 30 seconds to open a text message, you probably should take your phone to a Genius Bar to get it checked out. It takes two seconds at worst when I tape on the SMS icon before I see my message.
I've already said the overall OS will feel a bit snappier, but I don't think it's going to be that big of a difference to say it's such a huge upgrade from 3G to 3GS when the real benefit from apps won't be seen at least within the next year. Since everyone with a 3G is in a two year contract and would have to jump through hoops or break it, I'm not seeing that as a huge benefit to jump on a 3GS from a 3G. Certainly I understand anyone looking for the better camera and/or video capabilities, but not the performance increase.
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