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[Neko Mimi Mode]

If Iran are only interested in nuclear energy for peaceful means then they have no need to be secretive and shun the IAEA. Some apologists on GAF suggested it was actually a political ploy by Iran, but given the tight sanctions and looming military action, that would just be stupid. They have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this, unless they actually have something to hide.

In the end, Iran is bringing it all on itself. If they played ball with the international community and adhered to the safeguards and regulations put in place, there wouldn't be anything to talk about. They didn't and they aren't.

 

[dave is ok]

The video in this Taibbi blog post made me feel kind of sick

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/another-march-to-war-20120217

 

[Gaborn]

If Iran are only interested in nuclear energy for peaceful means then they have no need to be secretive and shun the IAEA. Some apologists on GAF suggested it was actually a political ploy by Iran, but given the tight sanctions and looming military action, that would just be stupid. They have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this, unless they actually have something to hide.

In the end, Iran is bringing it all on itself. If they played ball with the international community and adhered to the safeguards and regulations put in place, there wouldn't be anything to talk about. They didn't and they aren't.

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

 

[Jenga]

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

Who gives a shit? We have the nukes and the cold war is over. Throwing nukes into the equation in the middle east is probably very very bad for everyone.

 

[Alucrid]

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

We wouldn't let them in because we're hiding our nuclear weapons research..

oh and stop being stupid Gaborn, we only have aliens there

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

Suppose we talk about something actually happening, rather than a figment of your imagination?

 

[el retorno]

The video in this Taibbi blog post made me feel kind of sick

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/another-march-to-war-20120217

Um there has been a plot that was alleged to be Iranian attacking US soil. Iran is now saying it might strike first. It had two failed strikes against Israel. Its not as rediculous as the Iraq attacking the US stuff.

And that article is based on the premise Iran will only be self defensive. Iran just said that´s not true.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

What a sensationalist thread title. Did anybody actually read the article?

Apparently this wasn't an IAEA inspection team, but a group of negotiators. But even if they were inspectors under NPT rules Iran is not required to allow IAEA inspectors into it's military sites. Unless there is proof that research related to the nuclear program was going on at that site, there isn't really any reason to let the inspectors there beyond instilling confidence that they are seriously willing to be constructive and compromise with the negotiators regarding any possible deal.

As far as the military chest-pounding, that's nothing new really. The important part is whether Iran dropped their previous preconditions for negotiations, which was an immediate end to the sanctions and the right to enrich their own uranium. Those are very reasonable requests but it makes it harder to negotiate when you have preconditions.

 

[Something Wicked]

Someone needs to make an image with Khamenei's face in middle and black-bordered white text saying: "Says nukes are evil' at the top and then "Builds nukes" at the bottom.

Saudi Arabia is like that big dumb friend of yours that you incite to get angry and go hit somebody.

More like the friend that talks a big game, but will back away and do jack shit when it's time to actually fight.

 

[Vaporizer]

Yeah because Israel is the one constantly talking about wiping iran from the face of the earth... O wait it's not, it's iran doing it

yes iran is going to wipe israel off the map, kills palestinians in the process and destroy the dome of the rock too

I have a message for iran. Get some nukes if you want to taken seriously. worked for north korea and pakistan

 

[Gaborn]

Who gives a shit?

I'm guessing the government would. Governments have the right to have some secrets including secret programs where they do top secret research. You KNOW the US would never allow an outsider into one of our secret bases, saying that Iran somehow HAS to be nefarious for the same restriction is disingenuous. I can think of a lot of reasons a government might want to keep outsiders away from different areas.

 

[TheNatural]

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

The US doesn't have batshit officials saying shit like this:

"Israel must be wiped off the map of the world, and god willing (…) we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionists."

The US doesn't put to death people for trespassing in the country.

There's a reason why shit is taken seriously when North Korea or Iran start talking nukes. They're batshit enough to use them on people that they discriminate against.

 

[Jenga]

yes iran is going to wipe israel off the map, kills palestinians in the process and destroy the dome of the rock too

every time iran claims israel should be wiped off the face of the map is just their way of kidding

totally should let them have nukes, it'll be ok bro

 

[Choke on the Magic]

yes iran is going to wipe israel off the map, kills palestinians in the process and destroy the dome of the rock too

I've brought up that arguement before and Tel Aviv would be a likely target.

 

[dave is ok]

Um there has been a plot that was alleged to be Iranian attacking US soil. Iran is now saying it might strike first. It had two failed strikes against Israel. Its not as rediculous as the Iraq attacking the US stuff.

And that article is based on the premise Iran will only be self defensive. Iran just said that´s not true.

This is the same exact shit they said to whip the country into a pro-war frenzy after 9/11.

I refuse to believe Iran is a serious threat to the United States or Israel

 

[CHEEZMO™]

every time iran claims israel should be wiped off the face of the map is just their way of kidding

totally should let them have nukes, it'll be ok bro

Every time they say it?

How many times have they?

 

[jimi_dini]

The best thing Iran can do now is open up their programme, and pursue purely civilian nuclear power.

Not only would it be in their own best interests, but it means that the US and Israel would have little egg on their face too, after all their posturing.

As history showed us - no, none of that matters at all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-Hans-Blix-told-Tony-Blair-invasion-WMD.html

Tony Blair was told by Hans Blix one month before the Iraq War that he was unlikely to ever find weapons of mass destruction. ... Recalling a telephone conversation with Mr Blair in February 2003, Dr Blix said: ‘I gave a warning that things had changed and there might not be so much [evidence of WMD].

'I said, “Wouldn’t it be paradoxical if you were to invade Iraq with 250,000 men and find very little?”’

and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/20/iraq.usa

By then, Unmovic inspectors had carried out some 700 inspections at 500 sites without finding prohibited weapons. The contract that George Bush held up before Congress to show that Iraq was purchasing uranium oxide was proved to be a forgery. ... They could not succeed in eliminating WMDs because they did not exist. Nor could they succeed in the declared aim to eliminate al-Qaida operators, because they were not in Iraq. They came later, attracted by the occupants.

but still

So if the media tells the sheep, that we need to bomb iran into "peace", we will do it

Spoiler

again

 

[Jenga]

Iran somehow HAS to be nefarious for the same restriction is disingenuous. I can think of a lot of reasons a government might want to keep outsiders away from different areas.

Name em. The inspectors are specifically looking for warhead development.

 

[el retorno]

I'm guessing the government would. Governments have the right to have some secrets including secret programs where they do top secret research. You KNOW the US would never allow an outsider into one of our secret bases, saying that Iran somehow HAS to be nefarious for the same restriction is disingenuous. I can think of a lot of reasons a government might want to keep outsiders away from different areas.

Um were allowed to have nukes. Iran isn´t. That´s what they´re looking for.

I also liked the pre-emptive war bit. I mean, that's the US's policy and it's ok, but if IRAN says it (without actually doing anything) well CLEARLY that's a horrible thing!

This is just more typical saber rattling and both sides need to grow up.

Well the Iran defense force was saying Iran was only self defensive. No Iran itself is saying that´s not true. It doesn´t even need to be attacked for it to launch.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The Iranian foreign ministry spokesman, Ramin Mehmanparast, claimed on Tuesday that the IAEA team was not actually there to inspect nuclear facilities. "The titles of the members of the visiting delegation is not inspectors. This is an expert delegation. The purpose of visit is not inspection," Mehmanparast said. "The aim is to negotiate about co-operation between Iran and the agency and to set a framework for a continuation of the talks."

This is either Iran playing the fool or someone using the IAEA the way they played weapons inspectors in Iraq. Either way, I am concerned that this latest story represents an unprecedented ratcheting up of pressure...

they're starting to sound like they feel cornered, and I don't feel cornering them is going to work. Their talk of pre-emptive action is not helpful though, as its just going to make Israel take the idea of them as a threat all the more seriously. Everyone involved here feels threatened...

I'm glad Britain and the US, are at least on the face of it, are calling for patience from Israel and to let other measures and diplomacy take course (who knows what they're really doing behind closed doors though)...

I still personally feel and believe we're in the end game of a decades long plan to attack Iran, and that the appropriate bodies are being used to lay the groundwork. I don't trust anyone on this shit anymore.

 

[marrec]

Suppose the IAEA believed the US was conducting secret nuclear weapons research at Area 51, should the US be compelled to grant inspectors access?

In the face of mounting international pressure and sanctions, it's reckless for Iran to continue posturing like they are. You're question does not relate at all because in your question America is not sitting on a decade of international pressure.

 

[Zzoram]

I don't know if blocking access to top secret military sites is really something that should set off alarm bells. There is 100% chance that at least one person in the inspection crew is a spy for the US or another country hostile to Iran.

Just because they didn't want to give full access to their top secret military bases doesn't mean they are building nuclear weapons.

 

[Jenga]

So if the media tells the sheep, that we need to bomb iran into "peace", we will do it

Spoiler

again

So what does Iran do? Keep the inspectors out and keep the heat on them to a boiling point or let them in and verify there is nothing? If we're gonna go to war anyway why not just let them in?

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Name em. The inspectors are specifically looking for warhead development.

As far as national defense, you don't see the advantage in keeping parts of your military program/capabilities a secret?

 

[el retorno]

This is the same exact shit they said to whip the country into a pro-war frenzy after 9/11.

I refuse to believe Iran is a serious threat to the United States or Israel

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462948&highlight=iran

 

[Gaborn]

Name em. The inspectors are specifically looking for warhead development.

So the inspectors are trained to shut their eyes if they see any other sort of R&D and can tell at a glance? What if, for example, they're developing a new kind of hand gun? Or a newer, high velocity explosive (that is non-nuclear)? What about aerospace research? Hell, what about research into various forms of bacteria and things like vaccines against ricin or anthrax that are more effective than the ones currently available?

 

[cousins]

i mean, come on

the middle east is relatively peaceful and there is no hatred between any major countries in the region

it's not like they'll be any nuclear standoffs between iran and israel or saudi arabia or anything fo'get about et

No country is stupid enough to use nuclear weapons, so many other countries have them, it's suicide. Having nukes is more of an esteem thing.

 

[jimi_dini]

So what does Iran do? Keep the inspectors out and keep the heat on them to a boiling point or let them in and verify there is nothing? If we're gonna go to war anyway why not just let them in?

Why should they? Iraq 2003 has proven that it doesn't matter at all. Maybe it was even counterproductive. If they definitely know that there are no WMDs, then it's easier to invade. No risk involved.

 

[el retorno]

This is either Iran playing the fool or someone using the IAEA the way they played weapons inspectors in Iraq. Either way, I am concerned that this latest story represents an unprecedented ratcheting up of pressure...

they're starting to sound like they feel cornered, and I don't feel cornering them is going to work. Their talk of pre-emptive action is not helpful though, as its just going to make Israel take the idea of them as a threat all the more seriously. Everyone involved here feels threatened...

I'm glad Britain and the US, are at least on the face of it, are calling for patience from Israel and to let other measures and diplomacy take course (who knows what they're really doing behind closed doors though)...

I still personally feel and believe we're in the end game of a decades long plan to attack Iran, and that the appropriate bodies are being used to lay the groundwork. I don't trust anyone on this shit anymore.

I really don´t think Israel is going to strike. I think Israel´s threat is being used as a chip to get Iran back to the table.

 

[Jenga]

I still personally feel and believe we're in the end game of a decades long plan to attack Iran, and that the appropriate bodies are being used to lay the groundwork. I don't trust anyone on this shit anymore.

Conspiracy. Well, outside of the Obama administration anyway. Israel and Saudi Arabian influence to get a war started is there, but it remains to be seen if we'll play it. Despite what everyone likes to believe, Barack Obama is not George W. Bush. For all the corporate cock sucking and pot busting shit he's been up to, Obama is not the sort to run into war with Iran.

 

[Gaborn]

In the face of mounting international pressure and sanctions, it's reckless for Iran to continue posturing like they are. You're question does not relate at all because in your question America is not sitting on a decade of international pressure.

So they should let the inspectors in because they're being pressured to let the inspectors in? That is not a sound legal principle. In fact, I'm VERY curious now. Would the US have the right or not have the right to deny access to Area 51 or a similar base to IAEA inspectors?

 

[-viper-]

meanwhile, israel are armed to their teeth with nukes, surface to air missiles and fighter jets.

 

[Vaporizer]

every time iran claims israel should be wiped off the face of the map is just their way of kidding

totally should let them have nukes, it'll be ok bro

yes, iran is itching to wipe out israel and get glassed themselves in the process.

 

[Jenga]

So the inspectors are trained to shut their eyes if they see any other sort of R&D and can tell at a glance? What if, for example, they're developing a new kind of hand gun? Or a newer, high velocity explosive (that is non-nuclear)? What about aerospace research? Hell, what about research into various forms of bacteria and things like vaccines against ricin or anthrax that are more effective than the ones currently available?

wat


unless the inspectors are bought out by big pharma or whatever tom clancy bullshit I don't think anybody would really care

okay maybe if they made lasers

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Arguement 1: Iran isn't trying to get nukes. It's for power and medicine and they just want privacy.

Arguement 2: Iran should get nukes. Everyone else has them so why can't they?

Arguement 3: US/Israel are bad. Poor Iran. Leave them alone. rabble rabble Palestians/ herp derp Zionists deeeerp.

This is the basic rotation of the Iran defense force on GAF.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Like I said, letting the IAEA team onto a site not related to nuclear research would raise their confidence in how constructive negotiations might be, but it may be a non-starter if it requires revealing any (conventional) military secrets. I don't really see why people think it is so obvious that nuclear inspectors should be allowed to go anywhere in the country that they're inspecting.

I really don´t think Israel is going to strike. I think Israel´s threat is being used as a chip to get Iran back to the table.

Hopefully.

 

[Escape Goat]

So they should let the inspectors in because they're being pressured to let the inspectors in? That is not a sound legal principle. In fact, I'm VERY curious now. Would the US have the right or not have the right to deny access to Area 51 or a similar base to IAEA inspectors?

Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Does this increasingly hypothetical argument have a US that has consistently threatened to undermine stability in the region or committed various human rights violations? What is its track record with the international community?

 

[ruxtpin]

The best thing Iran can do now is open up their programme, and pursue purely civilian nuclear power.

Not only would it be in their own best interests, but it means that the US and Israel would have little egg on their face too, after all their posturing.

I know it all boils down to politics, e-peen waving, and bullshit governments; but I always wish in tense situations like this, that it'd turn into a sitcom where they let the inspectors into the nuke site and it turns out to be a bunch of guys goldfarming in WoW.

 

[Gaborn]

wat


unless the inspectors are bought out by big pharma or whatever tom clancy bullshit I don't think anybody would really care

okay maybe if they made lasers

Whether the inspectors care personally or not isn't the point. The inspectors are not truly stateless you know. They may work for the UN but they live in different countries. You don't think the US would like to get a look at sensitive Chinese information and what they're R&D'ing? Inspections! I mean, call me cynical but if I'm the President of a country I'm doing what I can to get someone on an IAEA team that will slip us information and sensitive details.

Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Does this increasingly hypothetical argument have a US that has consistently threatened to undermine stability in the region or committed various human rights violations? What is its track record with the international community?

.... have you been paying attention for the last 50 odd years?

 

[Jenga]

Why should they? Iraq 2003 has proven that it doesn't matter at all. Maybe it was even contraproductive. If they definitely know that there are no WMDs, then it's easier to invade. No risk involved.

This isn't 2003 and Dick Cheney and fucking GWB are not in power of the executive office. Drop the bullshit, we're not gonna start a war with fucking Iran.

 

[Zzoram]

These inspections are meaningless.

If Iran lets them go everywhere, they get tons of non-nuclear intelligence on their military, so that's never going to happen in any country. The inspectors get to visit nuclear sites, where they wouldn't find anything related to weapons anyways.


Keep up the economic sanctions and keep the negotiating table open, that's the only thing that works.

 

[Vaporizer]

No country is stupid enough to use nuclear weapons, so many other countries have them, it's suicide. Having nukes is more of an esteem thing.

Having nukes is more than an esteem thing.


If iran had nukes, you would not see military postures by anyone in the middle east. You will get the occasional trash talk but that's about it

 

[Jenga]

Whether the inspectors care personally or not isn't the point. The inspectors are not truly stateless you know. They may work for the UN but they live in different countries. You don't think the US would like to get a look at sensitive Chinese information and what they're R&D'ing? Inspections! I mean, call me cynical but if I'm the President of a country I'm doing what I can to get someone on an IAEA team that will slip us information and sensitive details.

Nobody gives a shit, Iran isn't doing any R&Ding into anything anybody cares about. Let them in and quit giving Israel an excuse to fuck with them. It's the only way.

 

[cousins]

lol

it all comes back to israel

They are usually involved to some extent.

 

[Inflammable Slinky]

HEY GUYS



Parchin is an explosive weapons testing site, not a nuclear testing site.

Iran is not legally obligated to allow access to this site towards the IAEA because it is not a nuclear site.


so this visit really doesn't twist the "Iran wants a nuke!" debate one way or the other!

EDIT: Source http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201222202920481596.html

 

[Escape Goat]

Whether the inspectors care personally or not isn't the point. The inspectors are not truly stateless you know. They may work for the UN but they live in different countries. You don't think the US would like to get a look at sensitive Chinese information and what they're R&D'ing? Inspections! I mean, call me cynical but if I'm the President of a country I'm doing what I can to get someone on an IAEA team that will slip us information and sensitive details.




.... have you been paying attention for the last 50 odd years?

I thought we were talking about nuclear weapons.

 

[Jenga]

If iran had nukes, you would not see military postures by anyone in the middle east. You will get the occasional trash talk but that's about it

That's bullshit and you know it, Israel would fucking lose it and suddenly every military postering may lead up to that one nuclear war nobody wants.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

They are usually involved to some extent.

I don't know

therfore

Israel

 

[Zzoram]

The only reason Iran might want nuclear weapons is so that they don't get attacked by the US or Israel.

Iran would never use them, they're not suicidal.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

yes Iran is literally going to attack its (nuclear armed) neighbor with nuclear weapons

also why would they deny inspectors if they don't have anything to hi wait have we done this before