The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
If op ever makes a quality thread it'll be the end of the world, but as of Today, we're still good.
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Is "A game for everyone is a game for no one" the dumbest new phrase in gaming?
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Guilty_AI
Member
You literally are. In OP you use the following phrase as a comparison:
"If you try to jump high...then you will jump low."
But a better analogue phrase would be:
"If you try to jump too high, you'll hit the ground hard and break your legs"
There is no game that tries to appeal to literally everyone, he is simply warning that the wider you "cast your net" the harder it becomes to pay attention to all the fish in individual parts of it who may just slip through the gaps and escape.
Yes, maybe there is a hypothetical phantom game out there that appeals to every single person in existence. There may also be a formula of immortality contained somewhere with just the right combinations of substances and procedures. Perhaps there is a correct sequence of 0s and 1s that creates God in the machine. You are not talking about feasible feats anymore.
april6e
Member
The dumbest phrase is "don't preorder" since there is literally no downside to a PC player on Steam doing so. You can refund a game as long as you didn't play it for longer than 2 hours.
There is only upside with pre order content and nothing lost by simply just refunding the game back if you try it and don't like it or the reviews on release day were terrible.
There is only upside with pre order content and nothing lost by simply just refunding the game back if you try it and don't like it or the reviews on release day were terrible.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I guess my issue with the phrase is that it places sole focus on 50% of the issue. It ignores the advantages of the opposite.
Zacfoldor
Member
It's a smart phrase. Conceptually it did not originate with games. It is a basic truth, a proverb, and nothing you imagine with your sudden revelations will change a basic truth no matter how lacking in uplift, vision and breadth of mind you believe it is. You want to leave these proverbs behind and follow the march of man just be careful where that march leads us. Another proverb, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
Okay, smart. You're a smart guy....but also, BUT ALSO, why would anyone preorder a digital game, lol?
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It still doesn't work.
Making a game for everyone means that everyone will like it. If we interpret the phrase literally, then the phrase is simply wrong.
Obviously there are people who are interpreting the phrase, which is fine, but many seem to dislike my interpretation...which is illogical.
TheUnicornGuy
Gold Member
So you think it's possible to make a game that appeals to FPS/TPS/RTS/TBS/VN/WRPG/JRPG fans while also having character designs to please waifu fans, dei fans, anti-dei fans, lgbt supporters, lgbt haters, dude bro fans, and furries?
Not that you should try to appeal to furries, because they're to be shunned and driven from civilised society.
Guilty_AI
Member
They dislike your interpretation because it's a completely pointless one. Imagine a petulant child looking at the phrase "Actions speak louder than words" and going "bU-bU-bUt AcTiOnS dOnT sPeAk!!11!!1".
That's you. That's you right now.
alabtrosMyster
Member
It's a saying as old as the world, if you try to please everyone, no one is happy.
There are variants in almost any culture, for any theme in any language.
Just don't use it to excuse mediocrity, the idea is that it's better to focus on doing something great for people who will appreciate it as opposed to diluting the creation with compromises that will please no one in the end.
There are variants in almost any culture, for any theme in any language.
Just don't use it to excuse mediocrity, the idea is that it's better to focus on doing something great for people who will appreciate it as opposed to diluting the creation with compromises that will please no one in the end.
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1756724107){kind=avatar}
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
As
Guilty_AI
said, it's theoretically possible to understand 1s and 0s to such a degree that it appeals to every living person.Will it happen? No.
But the phrase itself doesn't address the likelihood. It just jams two mutually exclusive statements together and tries to disguise itself as a wise phrase.
But I saw through its inconsistency.
alabtrosMyster
Member
I can already recite you the woke critique points:
- Batman is a rich white dude attacking poor people because they try to make ends meet by robbing others
- All the women are hot
- the violence is free
- not enough representation of 2SLGBTQ+
- not enough representation of minorities
- probably very insensitive of other cultures
Etc
Guilty_AI
Member
Normal human being:
"Geez, it's raining cats and dogs out there"
Men_in_Boxes
:
"Whaaaa't?!! Thats waterh not cats n dogus!!!!1! Imm so smart"
"Geez, it's raining cats and dogs out there"
Men_in_Boxes
:"Whaaaa't?!! Thats waterh not cats n dogus!!!!1! Imm so smart"
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
The quote itself isn't phrased well in my opinion but I fully understand and agree woth the intent behind it. They're just saying make the game/art that gets you off and don't design by committee and make something lukewarm.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I would say your interpretation of a thought exercise leaves much to be desired
TheUnicornGuy
Gold Member
But actions do speak, if you're deaf.
Sorry, I was trying to look at the thread from
Men_in_Boxes
point of view and must have accidentally left myself in retard mode.
lughnasadh123
Member
It's a dumb phrase trying to convey something that simply could never be done that most things aren't trying to do usually embrace by disgruntled fans when they're no longer be catered to.
Guilty_AI
Member
And i would say your brain got so thoroughly fried by all the GAAS you became functional illiterate.
midnightAI
Member
A game for everyone is probably a game that resonates with a few select people
or
A game for everyone is impossible
thats probably more accurate
or
A game for everyone is impossible
thats probably more accurate
PurePlatinum
Member
Mario Kart World is a game for everyone, and it's excellent.
Guilty_AI
Member
aren't there tons of people complaining about it and going back to mario kart 8?
PurePlatinum
Member
There are tons of people online complaining about everything. MK8 is also a game for everyone.
Why do you think so much western tv and gaming is bland safe slop with no strong appeal, and things keep flopping. It's precisely because of the prevalent belief among some that "we're all the same", when in reality we like different things, this divides along gender lines yes, but also within.
Do you really think helldivers would have resonated with the predominant male audience for that sort game of they tried to force in aesthetics and mechanics that would appeal to female gamers, people who like the sims or building games, or casual gamers, whilst also ensuring it's accessible enough for my mom or dad to play it. No, it would have been a train wreck and all those things would have made it a worse experience for the core audience, whilst also attracting very few people from those other demographics, who would have disliked the core of the game.
Do you really think helldivers would have resonated with the predominant male audience for that sort game of they tried to force in aesthetics and mechanics that would appeal to female gamers, people who like the sims or building games, or casual gamers, whilst also ensuring it's accessible enough for my mom or dad to play it. No, it would have been a train wreck and all those things would have made it a worse experience for the core audience, whilst also attracting very few people from those other demographics, who would have disliked the core of the game.
Pimpollo818
Member
One I don't care for/doesn't spark excitement: "by gamers for gamers"
I first saw it associated with Interplay/Fargo. I've seen it crop up in recent years, especially during the Kickstarter wave.
I first saw it associated with Interplay/Fargo. I've seen it crop up in recent years, especially during the Kickstarter wave.
Seiryu21
Member
To me the phrase is really about having a vision for your game and not just making something you think everyone will like. You should make something you like to the best of your ability and hope it resonates with people.
Games by committee rarely exceed passion projects with a coherent vision.
Games by committee rarely exceed passion projects with a coherent vision.
Guilty_AI
Member
The prize should go to "pride and accomplishment". Phrase garned such a stigma even marketing departments must be wary of using it in any context.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Because they're failing. The following phrase applies to them.
"A game designed for everyone and appeals to no one, is for no one."
Guilty_AI
Member
And why do you think they're failing? Because they truly believe they can appeal to everyone.
Ok Commie.
I heard someone repeat this phrase recently on a podcast while the other cohosts bobbed their heads like dashboard figurines.
It doesn't make sense.
Helldivers 2 may be a great game but this concept has always sounded unintelligent to me.
If you make a game for everyone...then you've made a game for...everyone.
It's like saying "If you try to jump high...then you will jump low."
No. If you try to jump high and fail, THEN you will jump low." The attempt doesn't guarantee the opposite.
A lot of people who aren't traditionally into PvP games are enjoying ARC Raiders now that it's released, and it seems obvious that Embark Studios made this game for multiple types of people with multiple different playstyle preferences. Games that are fun for multiple types obviously have a big advantage over. Should we stop using this phrase?
ComputerBlue
Member
Dumb? No, a game for everyone is extremely generic across the board.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The most successful games and movies actually appeal to the most people.
A successful implementation of a strategy is superior than a failed implementation.
Guilty_AI
Member
BG3 sure did appeal to those real-time action gospelers. And Elden Ring did such a great job with their easy mode for casual players.
One of the first steps for a successful implementation is estabilishing a target audience, and that target audience sure as hell can't be "everyone".
Generic
Member
Elden Ring's expanded its audience to include people who like open world.
Guilty_AI
Member
And in the process it lost a lot of classic Dark Souls formula fans, and that is despite having done an excellent job with it's open world.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
The more a game appeals to a niche the more unique that game will be, and imo thra's a positive.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Did this really need it's own thread? How would you perceive a book, a film or a piece of music that was designed "for everyone"? Do you watch films or listen to music that is supposed to be "for everyone"?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
And yet BG3 appealed to considerably more people than BG1.
Elden Ring appealed to considerably more people than Demons Souls.
Whether you want to admit it or not, those who can successfully cast larger nets, feast much more than those who can't.
Guilty_AI
Member
And that way it attracts even more players.
Great games aren't the ones that are out there trying to appeal to as many people as possible, it's the other way around. It's those that build themselves to such high standards they can convert peoples tastes to fit them.
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Pagusas
Elden Member
The only thing I can think is maybe OP's first language isn't english? The phrase is a very common one.
A jack of all trades is a master of none.
If everything matters, than nothing matters. (order of priority, if everything is priority than nothing has priority)
If you try to cater to everyone, you'll piss off everyone.
A jack of all trades is a master of none.
If everything matters, than nothing matters. (order of priority, if everything is priority than nothing has priority)
If you try to cater to everyone, you'll piss off everyone.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
There's some absolute truth to the statement. It's no different when saying "Jack of all trades, King of none."
It does annoy me when devs feel like they have to cater to everyone. Not every game needs to be made for everyone. Know your audience, or more importantly, the audience you want to have.
It does annoy me when devs feel like they have to cater to everyone. Not every game needs to be made for everyone. Know your audience, or more importantly, the audience you want to have.
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