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[James Sawyer Ford]

I started up Rare Replay on the original Banjo Kazooie and was amazed at how well it still holds up. All the mechanics are wonderful, the level design is tight and dense, and it just oozes charm all over.

I really miss these types of platformers and hope Microsoft ends up making a next-gen traditional one sometime in the future, even though that's doubtful.

I'm curious how Tooie holds up. Never played it, but I hear people were disappointed with just how big it became and it watered down the experience a bit.

 

[feynoob]

Banjo64
Come here. We need your expertise.

 

[Spukc]

No

 

[flying_sq]

It's still fun but they just made all the worlds a bit too big, and too much back tracking. You can see how they made DK64 after playing it.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I started up Rare Replay on the original Banjo Kazooie and was amazed at how well it still holds up. All the mechanics are wonderful, the level design is tight and dense, and it just oozes charm all over.

I really miss these types of platformers and hope Microsoft ends up making a next-gen traditional one sometime in the future, even though that's doubtful.

I'm curious how Tooie holds up. Never played it, but I hear people were disappointed with just how big it became and it watered down the experience a bit.

Yeah man just do it, it's great Banjo fun. The original was such a tight experience nothing may compare, but it's still fun.

I only wish I could have played it and experienced the joy as a child. I don't know why I never got Tooie even though we loved BK so much.

Still want a Banjo Threeie...

 

[bobone]

You should definitely play it.
Tooie is good, but what everyone says about it is true. Its much too big and feels kind of messy.
I didn't finish it when it came out. But I did replay it a few years later and was glad I did.

Sadly there is nothing out there that really compares to Banjo Kazooie. But that can be said about all the best games of a genre.

 

[TexMex]

If you still find the original fun today, then I would assume so.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

Theres a reason why theres no banjo threeie

 

[Otre]

Its a piece of shit that has aged horribly. Banjo Kazooie was a perfectly balanced game. Tooie just added bigger maps that are worse than the original with tedious back tracking, asinine mini games and styles of play that did not had to be there. Was like adding the worst toppings you can think of on a perfectly fine pizza.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[01011001]

Nuts & Bolts is better... and no I'm not being sarcastic

 

[Saber]

Big no.

All the good concept and progress stuff from the first one transformed into a convonlunted mess on the second. The game gets bored way too fast, and the last part/boss is way too stupid, even for Banjo Kazooie games.

 

[Xellos]

I've played through the original multiple times on multiple consoles, but only once for Tooie on the N64. Every now and then I'll try Tooie on Xbox, but I never get very far. Tooie has good ideas but also a lot of boring filler.

If you already have Rare Replay you may as well check it out.

Nuts & Bolts is better... and no I'm not being sarcastic

Yeah, N&B gets a lot of hate but I had much more fun with that game than Tooie.

 

[Bakkus]

It's still fun but they just made all the worlds a bit too big, and too much back tracking. You can see how they made DK64 after playing it.

DK 64 came out in between Kazooie and Tooie.

 

[Filben]

Reminds me of needing to finish Kazooie. Loved that game as a kid but never got around beating it. Runs flawless on the Steam Deck through emulation though. The maps and music... those childhood memories.

 

[Banjo64]

It’s a no from me dawg unless you love the genre.

For me it’s not in the same league as the first game for the reasons you’ve sighted: dense and tight vs bloated and vast.

However if you like platformers a lot, go for it.

 

[Neff]

I beat Banjo 1 for the first time last year and loved it. Went into Tooie with high hopes and hated it. Open, Mario 64-esque playgrounds with endless distractions and teases in every direction are replaced with a faux-Metroidvania series of corridors and rooms, like the whole game is Grunty's Lair if you can imagine that, but without the charm, atmosphere, and sense of fun (seriously, there's a moment where one of the characters essentially tells another character 'STOP HAVING FUN', as the entire thing is undercut with bizarre aspirations of placating edgy teens). It also seeks to superfluously rob you of your time in ways that the first game doesn't, everything requires significantly more effort and hours invested in terms of traversal, collecting, talking to NPCs, sitting through cutscenes, and so on. I don't know if it was an intentional idea to pad the experience out to offer a better value proposition than the original, or simply a case of the developer not knowing when to hit the brakes, but yeah, I hated the fucking thing. Don't take my word for it though, you already own it, give it a go.

Banjo 1 rules.

 

[xpresstuning]

Just go for it. It got a lot of bad rep on release because of the horrible framerate, but these days, through other methods of playing it, that's not an issue.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I started up Rare Replay on the original Banjo Kazooie and was amazed at how well it still holds up. All the mechanics are wonderful, the level design is tight and dense, and it just oozes charm all over.

I really miss these types of platformers and hope Microsoft ends up making a next-gen traditional one sometime in the future, even though that's doubtful.

I'm curious how Tooie holds up. Never played it, but I hear people were disappointed with just how big it became and it watered down the experience a bit.

Banjo Tooie is an excellent game, if you treat it like an pseudo open-world adventure game with platforming, rather than a pure platformer.

The brilliance of the game comes from how the worlds are linked together; some Jiggies are not accessible until you do something in another world first.

Want all the Jiggies in World 8? Better thoroughly explore World 2 first. Want to even enter World 6? Go back to 5 and look around. It makes the Isle O' Hags feel like a place, rather than a hub world, and it's still pretty unique to this day.

 

[Majukun]

it's good but it's hindered by some design issues.
it's the demostration of how it's possible to have too much of a good thing, levels were too big and there was too much stuff to collect

 

[JRW]

At least Tooie has a steady framerate in rare replay, framerate was all over the place on N64 hardware a lot times running between 15-20fps, Tooie may not be as good as the first game but glad I didn't skip it.

Played through it twice (N64 & and many years later Rare Replay).

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Tooie is a game that shows how outstanding level and map design may not be the best thing when coupled with gameplay that makes everything feel like a chore.
Checking boxes in Kazooie was fun. In Tooie, it feels like work.
The way the levels are designed and interconnected is simply genius. It’s just so exhausting after the first 4 levels, and the backtracking makes even the worst classic Resident Evil games seem straightforward.

I think Rare’s neverending N64 collectathons are an important reason behind Nintendo changing course for Mario after Sunshine. Galaxy went back to linear, challenge-based levels; Odyssey has so many moons precisely to give players the choice to not collect everything and still progress. Banjo and DK64 pretty much forced you to get 100% to really beat the game.

 

[tomato shrub]

First, don't forget that there is a shockingly decent GBA sequel to play (not the racing one). I'm sad that they cancelled the DS game.

For Tooie, it's kind of a mess, but the atmosphere is fun. The characters are all run down and everything's kinda fucked up. While the levels are too bloated, I at least enjoyed the connectivity between them.

 

[MagnesD3]

Yes it's a fantastic video game (not better than BK because that is basically a perfect video game), it's only weakness is they didn't include a map so if you don't have a good memory it's easy to get lost. A little hint journal to keep up with hints you find and multi part quests would have been an excellent quality of life thing to help it too.

I wonder if someone has modded in these quality if life changes in a pc version, that surely wouldn't be too difficult to make.

 

[Dreamin]

I think it's worth playing. Back in the day it wasn't very good because it ran so badly, suuuuper low fps on N64.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Yes it's a fantastic video game (not better than BK because that is basically a perfect video game), it's only weakness is they didn't include a map so if you don't have a good memory it's easy to get lost. A little hint journal to keep up with hints you find and multi part quests would have been an excellent quality of life thing to help it too.

I wonder if someone has modded in these quality if life changes in a pc version, that surely wouldn't be too difficult to make.

I really want a PC port of Tooie for QOL improvements like this, but the biggest improvement would be modern fps controls in the first-person sections. Unless Rare Replay has already fixed that.

 

[01011001]

Yeah, N&B gets a lot of hate but I had much more fun with that game than Tooie.

I'm just sad that it never got an FPS boost

 

[Krathoon]

What I think we have learned from this thread is just get Rare Replay. It is a really good collection of Rare's stuff.

Unfortunately, it does not have the Wizards and Warriors games. Just play those in an emulator.

 

[Big Baller]

Its good but drags on too long with all the collecting.

 

[Krathoon]

Also, they need to make a fourth Wizards and Warriors game.

 

[Paltheos]

Tooie is a game that shows how outstanding level and map design may not be the best thing when coupled with gameplay that makes everything feel like a chore.
Checking boxes in Kazooie was fun. In Tooie, it feels like work.
The way the levels are designed and interconnected is simply genius. It’s just so exhausting after the first 4 levels, and the backtracking makes even the worst classic Resident Evil games seem straightforward.

I think Rare’s neverending N64 collectathons are an important reason behind Nintendo changing course for Mario after Sunshine. Galaxy went back to linear, challenge-based levels; Odyssey has so many moons precisely to give players the choice to not collect everything and still progress. Banjo and DK64 pretty much forced you to get 100% to really beat the game.

Play feel is such a big difference. I was just playing AM2R again last night and this got me thinking about how I don't mind backtracking in that game much because controlling Samus Aran is fucking awesome. In Banjo, the best you have is... walking on Kazooie's legs for a sprint, IIRC, as she squawks each step? It's a movement option designed for Banjo-Kazooie, a game about cramming in as many sights and sounds in tightly designed levels as possible. It's not a utility option, and that becomes obvious after a couple minutes walking around the island in Banjo-Tooie, listening to the squawk at each step and wishing you could just go a little faster, ya know? It's been 15 years since I tried playing Banjo-Tooie and I still remember this lol. I admire Rare for trying something different though, I'll give them that.

I can't comment on the last thing you said though (I just don't know Nintendo's actual reasoning). I personally would have preferred more games in the Banjo-Kazooie-style: Collectathons in fun and interesting levels, with off-the-path challenges strewn about, like Yooka-Laylee tried at and A Hat in Time excelled at, over the linear Mario Galaxy games.

 

[Krathoon]

I loved the squawking, but I like silly things.

 

[Umbasaborne]

BK is one of my top 5 games of all time, BT doesnt even crack top ten. Its still a good game, and there is a lot to like about bt. Its biggest problem is that by vastly increasing the scope, they ruined pacing. Every part of bk’s worlds felt meaningful and presented fun gameplay opprotunities that were tightly packed and interconnected. Where bt’s worlds are big, and you need to spend a lot more time trekking to those gameplay opportunities.

Collectibles are far too spread out, in bk, the notes are placed purposefully to guide you through out the worlds. Note placement in bt is much more sporadic, and placed without much rhyme or reason, an issue that its spiritual successor yooka laylee also suffered from. With comparing bk to bt, and my biggest take away is that less is more. There is less bk than there is bt, but the experience was much more rewarding and enjoyable imo.

 

[93xfan]

Yeah man just do it, it's great Banjo fun. The original was such a tight experience nothing may compare, but it's still fun.

I only wish I could have played it and experienced the joy as a child. I don't know why I never got Tooie even though we loved BK so much.

Still want a Banjo Threeie...

Mario 64.

But yes, Banjo is certainly fun

 

[Tg89]

Kazooie is the superior game, one of the best on the 64.

Tooie is solid, but not nearly as tight an experience. Not as bloated as DK64, but a step in that direction.

 

[Tg89]

Also, Click Clock Wood is a top 10 VG track of all time.

 

[Tg89]

Mario 64.

But yes, Banjo is certainly fun

I know these games always get compared but they're such different games.

That said. Gruntilda's Lair >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peach's Castle

 

[MagnesD3]

I really want a PC port of Tooie for QOL improvements like this, but the biggest improvement would be modern fps controls in the first-person sections. Unless Rare Replay has already fixed that.

Ah that would be nice too, I don't know, the last time I beat Banjo Tooie was when it was released in HD on the 360.

 

[93xfan]

I know these games always get compared but they're such different games.

That said. Gruntilda's Lair >>>>>>>>>>>>> Peach's Castle

Actually I 100% agree. Very different objectives, so maybe not a fair comparison

 

[Krathoon]

Banjo-Kazooie is a better game than Mario 64. Nintendo knows that. Rare kind of ate their lunch.

 

[diffusionx]

Banjo-Kazooie is a better game than Mario 64. Nintendo knows that. Rare kind of ate their lunch.

I disagree with that. Nintendo was building the plane as they were flying it, while Rare, as part of Nintendo could look at it fully built and take all the lessons and knowledge from that game. It came out 2 years later.

 

[Dr.brain64]

I had never played tooie. Played for the first time on series x (rare replay) and I really liked it. I love old rare.

 

[Happosai]

kanjobazooie How was Kanjo Tooie?

 

[Puscifer]

It's still fun but they just made all the worlds a bit too big, and too much back tracking. You can see how they made DK64 after playing it.

Still so wild to me DK64 set a record for it

 

[kanjobazooie]

kanjobazooie How was Kanjo Tooie?

Mods are watching dude. Don't advertise my alt.

 

[Bragr]

Even the developers are on record saying they fucked up with that game.

It might just be the most overrated Metacritic score in video game history with its 90. The original was so strong its hype affected the score.

Banjo-Kazooie is one of my all-time favorite games, but I still haven't gotten through the first level in Banjo-Tooie. It's a completely different game, the levels are too big and they feel frustrating and slow, the pace and reward structure of the game doesn't work at all like it did in the original.

You can sense they tried though, it's ambitious, but they ended up breaking the best parts of the original.

 

[Happosai]

Mods are watching dude. Don't advertise my alt.

Better than my alt which was surnamed 'Cloggo'

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What I think we have learned from this thread is just get Rare Replay. It is a really good collection of Rare's stuff.

Unfortunately, it does not have the Wizards and Warriors games. Just play those in an emulator.

Unfortunately there's no Conker - I never played that game. Why is it not included with Rare Replay?

 

[OCASM]

Just keep a notebook to write down where the jaggies you can't get yet are.

 

[Holgren]

It's a huge time investment but I loved it as a kid.