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[pigeon]

And maybe i'm in the minority, but i don't think calling a woman who does something that crazy and dangerous a bitch insults women as a whole. Just like if it were a man and someone called him a dick, i wouldn't be offended, even though thats an insult designed to belittle men exclusively.

You don't think maybe that's because you exist entirely in a magical world of privilege?

 

[StriKeVillain]

TL;DR: Everyone needs to lighten up and stop looking for reasons to be upset.

Oh yeah, right. Maybe we should go and play videogames too, huh!?

 

[Trojita]

I actually feel more uncomfortable when people in the dog industry try and say "Bitch" as often as they can, like they are trying to take the word back.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

How far do you want to take this line of argument? Should we be allowed to whip out racial slurs depending on the ethnicity of someone who does something stupid, irresponsible, or aggravating? The basis of the "b-word bans" is that it's a gendered insult that people are using just 'cause.

This is the problem with Gaf. Stop looking for things to be mad at and argue over. All I'm saying is that the way that guy used the word "bitch" was not meant to demean the female gender as a whole, and he should not have to walk on eggshells. That exact comment can be heard in PG movies, but not on Gaf? his intent clearly was not to belittle all the women on this planet.

 

[Orayn]

TL;DR: Everyone needs to lighten up and stop looking for reasons to be upset.

But the vigilantism stuff? As someone who believes in due process and rule of law, that's always been something I found abhorrent. The feelings behind those posts are sometimes understandable, but I really don't think cries for someone to be tortured, raped, or murdered are something that we as a community need to endorse.

This is the problem with Gaf. Stop looking for things to be mad at and argue over. All I'm saying is that the way that guy used the word "bitch" was not meant to demean the female gender as a whole, and he should not have to walk on eggshells. That exact comment can be heard in PG movies, but not on Gaf? his intent clearly was not to belittle all the women on this planet.

I was kind of playing mods' advocate with that post. I'll lay off the b-word argument because I think there are enough degrees of ambiguity and a few fair cases to be made from the other side.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Sounds like a gendered insult to me.

toward which sex?

 

[T.M. MacReady]

You don't think maybe that's because you exist entirely in a magical world of privilege?

Damn. You got me. I'll go return to my magical world where people aren't constantly looking for reasons to get pissy with each other.

 

[Team Filler]

You don't think maybe that's because you exist entirely in a magical world of privilege?

Here come the privilege arguments. You're so special.

 

[Trent Strong]

You don't think maybe that's because you exist entirely in a magical world of privilege?

This isn't Saudi Arabia.

 

[Devolution]

I guess I didn't make it clear enough. To answer your question: all those things you said and the word "bitch" apply to the person in question. Anyone insulted by calling that person a bitch needs to dial it down a few nods. That was not a statement meant to belittle women, it was a statement about one person, and the guy who made it shouldn't have to walk on eggshells, he should be allowed to say what he's thinking, provided he is not attacking a forum poster maliciously or insulting an entire race or gender of people.

And maybe i'm in the minority, but i don't think calling a woman who does something that crazy and dangerous a bitch insults women as a whole. Just like if it were a man and someone called him a dick, i wouldn't be offended, even though thats an insult designed to belittle men exclusively.


TL;DR: Everyone needs to lighten up and stop looking for reasons to be upset.

Why must you always assume people are upset as some sort of defense tactic. Like people who aren't keen on certain derogatory terms are irrational and emotional? Throwing around bitch and cunt creates a very obvious atmosphere of "boys club" that is pretty much the entirety of the internet. You either have to stop bothering with it or put a mental block in your own mind against these words and their casual usage. In GAFs attempts to promote better dialogue and a more inclusive forum they're cracking down on insults that target marginalized groups.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

But the vigilantism stuff? As someone who believes in due process and rule of law, that's always been something I found abhorrent. The feelings behind those posts are sometimes understandable, but I really don't think cries for someone to be tortured, raped, or murdered are something that we as a community need to endorse.

Earlier in this thread, I supported the bans for the people in the thread where prison rape was discussed. I was only disputing the ban for the first reply in the dangerous driver thread.

Just to clarify.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I actually feel more uncomfortable when people in the dog industry try and say "Bitch" as often as they can, like they are trying to take the word back.

i like how we're all using quotation marks to make the word safer

 

[CHEEZMO™]

How long until people start putting "TW" into thread titles? I give it 6 months.

 

[pigeon]

Damn. You got me. I'll go return to my magical world where people aren't constantly looking for reasons to get pissy with each other.

Once again, it's pretty ignorant and self-serving to suggest that people are constantly looking for reasons to be upset, as if that's the only reason anybody could disagree with you is that they're deliberately faking offense for obscure reasons of their own.

edit: DEVO TOO FAST

 

[Trojita]

i like how we're all using quotation marks to make the word safer

"I know"

 

[NinjaFridge]

Oh yeah, right. Maybe we should go and play videogames too, huh!?

What is this, some kind of gaming forum!?

 

[Tess3ract]

You know, if you don't take words personally, they lose any of their potentially poisonous meaning. Suddenly, they're just any other word.

You don't think maybe that's because you exist entirely in a magical world of privilege?

I'M IN A GLASS CAGE OF emotionPRIVILEGE

They have higher wages and cookies in here! Don't you just wish you could join me? HA TOO BAD

i like how we're all using quotation marks to make the word safer

As mumei said, it's all about context.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

Why must you always assume people are upset as some sort of defense tactic. Like people who aren't keen on certain derogatory terms are irrational and emotional? Throwing around bitch and cunt creates a very obvious atmosphere of "boys club" that is pretty much the entirety of the internet. You either have to stop bothering with it or put a mental block in your own mind against these words and their casual usage. In GAFs attempts to promote better dialogue and a more inclusive forum they're cracking down on insults that target marginalized groups.

I and many others aren't keen on being called a dick, douchebag, etc.

But you'll never see me call for a ban on someone who reads an article about a horrible person and calls them a dick, douchebag, etc.


I don't support any slurs or malicious comments. I only support the sentiment that Gaf needs to chill out and stop looking for reasons to get mad. Some of the responses (not yours, Devo) to my posts are great evidence of that sentiment.

 

[Trent Strong]

This is the problem with Gaf. Stop looking for things to be mad at and argue over. All I'm saying is that the way that guy used the word "bitch" was not meant to demean the female gender as a whole, and he should not have to walk on eggshells. That exact comment can be heard in PG movies, but not on Gaf? his intent clearly was not to belittle all the women on this planet.

Not only is it used it PG movies, it's used on prime time television...all the time. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

 

[Milchjon]

Why must you always assume people are upset as some sort of defense tactic. Like people who aren't keen on certain derogatory terms are irrational and emotional? Throwing around bitch and cunt creates a very obvious atmosphere of "boys club" that is pretty much the entirety of the internet. You either have to stop bothering with it or put a mental block in your own mind against these words and their casual usage. In GAFs attempts to promote better dialogue and a more inclusive forum they're cracking down on insults that target marginalized groups.

With cunt, I can understand that reasoning, kinda. But in my experience, women use bitch just as often, if not more, than men. So how does use of that word make GAF a boys club?

 

[8byte]

"Bitch" isn't an anti-female sentiment though, anymore than "dick" is an anti-male sentiment.

I think context is important.

For instance "That bitch got what she deserved" is pretty derogatory.

However "I don't know why she was so bitchy" (IMO) isn't as bad, as it addresses the attitude associated, not the person.

Still, I think it's a safe bet to simply stay away from it, fair or not (at least as long as you want to continue posting on neogaf).

 

[Devolution]

I and many others aren't keen on being called a dick, douchebag, etc.

But you'll never see me call for a ban on someone who reads an article about a horrible person and calls them a dick, douchebag, etc.


I don't support any slurs or malicious comments. I only support the sentiment that Gaf needs to chill out and stop looking for reasons to get mad. Some of the responses (not yours, Devo) to my posts are great evidence of that sentiment.

How is douchebag a gendered insult? How does dick contribute to sexism against men? You can't reasonably think your examples are equivalent. I can see dick as a gendered insult but it still does not have the weight of bitch or cunt.

With cunt, I can understand that reasoning, kinda. But in my experience, women use bitch just as often, if not more, than men. So how does use of that word make GAF a boys club?

Depending on who it's directed at and how it's used. If people constantly use it to snipe at any woman, particularly a vocal feminist, it's obvious what's going on.

 

[notworksafe]

Not only is it used it PG movies, it's used on prime time television...all the time. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

I've thought that for a long, long time.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Why not just try and expand your vocabularies? Accept that people get offended by all sorts of stuff. Give "the offended" the benefit of the doubt. Is this conversation a re-occurring topic or a recent phenomenon?

 

[Tess3ract]

Not only is it used it PG movies, it's used on prime time television...all the time. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

Unfortunately, their arguements are against argumentum ad populum (just because everyone uses it doesn't make it right)

To put it plainly what everyone else is saying though: "It's just a word, get over it"

 

[Christine]

I don't support any slurs or malicious comments. I only support the sentiment that Gaf needs to chill out and stop looking for reasons to get mad.

If you don't support any slurs or malicious comments, why the outrage that people are getting banned for using them?

Chill out and stop looking for reasons to get mad.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

What did the user known as "Chavelo" get banned for?

 

[pigeon]

You know, if you don't take words personally, they lose any of their potentially poisonous meaning. Suddenly, they're just any other word.

Jesus, what a brilliant observation. Why didn't generations of people of color, women, and GLBT people think of that? You're like the Martin Luther King Jr. of insults!

 

[Team Filler]

Not only is it used it PG movies, it's used on prime time television...all the time. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

In a very Douglas Adams-esque manner of speaking, many of them will remind us that this isn't the real world; it is NeoGaf. I admit their lack of imagination is disappointing.

 

[Tess3ract]

I think chav should be banned. It's offensive to trailer trash who reside in the UK.

Oh wait.

(this is a contextual sarcastic post)

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

Fair point.

In the wake of RoboGeorgeForeman's cataclysmic departure, I think I've going to follow through with an idea I've been holding for some time now, and no longer use any swears/insulting words in my posting. Instead, anytime I feel like something or somebody is deserving of insulting feedback, or I read something that greatly angers me, I'm only going to post things like, "You're a special guy", or "Quit being so special." With this way, the reader can truly decide exactly how offended they would like to be based on whatever word they substitute for those which I have used.

I'm reverting back to a six year old and will only use doo-doo head and variations of it from now on.

 

[Devolution]

You know, if you don't take words personally, they lose any of their potentially poisonous meaning. Suddenly, they're just any other word.

It's not like pejoratives are ways to signal your authority over others marginalized status. Oh wait.

 

[Riggs]

This is the problem with Gaf. Stop looking for things to be mad at and argue over. All I'm saying is that the way that guy used the word "bitch" was not meant to demean the female gender as a whole, and he should not have to walk on eggshells. That exact comment can be heard in PG movies, but not on Gaf? his intent clearly was not to belittle all the women on this planet.

I do agree, but I never EVER say bitch on gaf. Just don't man you will be banned.

Also look at the thread on the Lab Technician just now ...

OP get's banned because people are saying he is insinuating the Lab Tech who dirtied samples with cocaine should be raped. The last thing on my mind was rape, so many folks on this forum are just looking for reasons to be offended it seems.

 

[Tess3ract]

Jesus, what a brilliant observation. Why didn't generations of people of color, women, and GLBT people think of that? You're like the Martin Luther King Jr. of insults!

I'm pretty pro-LGBT and don't debase people on gender/color/etc

Granted my vocabulary isn't the best, but if I say something construed as offensive it isn't because you are a specific subset of humanity. 99% of the time, it's just because that person is a fucking retard. (not you)

It's not like pejoratives are ways to signal your authority over others marginalized status. Oh wait.

Lol what authority? I'm fucking poor and nothing I say is of any relevance. What actual authority do I have over others (hint: it's fucking nothing)

 

[T.M. MacReady]

. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

And seemingly, just love to argue. I don't care to debate this any further, so all the "usual suspects" can have their fun getting angry over nothing. I'll go find a thread that's fun and just enjoy the forum instead. Lighten up, people.

I do agree, but I never EVER say bitch on gaf. Just don't man you will be banned.

I never do and never have either, just thought things are getting too uptight around here. Oh well. It is what it is. And again, earlier in this thread I supported the bans in that lab tech thread.

 

[bjork]

Here's how to survive on gaf.

1. read post.
2. see someone has said something offensive
3. think to yourself, "man, fuck that guy."
4. go on with your life

If I could collect all the time spent arguing over the handful of recurring surefire argument topics on GAF, I could... do some shit that would take a really long time!

 

[Team Filler]

It's not like pejoratives are ways to signal your authority over others marginalized status. Oh wait.

Look at you, you're so smart!

 

[Fari]

Not only is it used it PG movies, it's used on prime time television...all the time. It's like some of the usual suspects in this thread just don't live in the real world.

Perpetual, unrelenting outrage over completely inconsequential shite.

If they acted like this in the real world they'd be laughed at.

 

[Kurtofan]

Why do some people here want to call women "bitches" so fucking much?

If you can't see why it's offensive I don't know what to tell you.

 

[bjork]

It's not like pejoratives are ways to signal your authority over others marginalized status. Oh wait.

You know how some people go to auctions to buy really specific vintage wines and comment on the bouquet and all that? Other people just drink wine to get fucked up.

 

[Devolution]

I'm pretty pro-LGBT and don't debase people on gender/color/etc

Granted my vocabulary isn't the best, but if I say something construed as offensive it isn't because you are a specific subset of humanity. 99% of the time, it's just because that person is a fucking retard. (not you)


Lol what authority? I'm fucking poor and nothing I say is of any relevance. What actual authority do I have over others (hint: it's fucking nothing)

The fact that you can continue to add to the stigma they face especially if you're going to continue to use words that have weight. The words have affected those people or said during times when they were assaulted, treated unfairly, shunned, and bullied. To act like every time you use it, it has a blank slate for them, is disingenuous as all fuck and plain wrong. Get some empathy for fucks sake.

 

[Surface of Me]

I'm pretty pro-LGBT and don't debase people on gender/color/etc

Granted my vocabulary isn't the best, but if I say something construed as offensive it isn't because you are a specific subset of humanity. 99% of the time, it's just because that person is a fucking retard. (not you)


Lol what authority? I'm fucking poor and nothing I say is of any relevance. What actual authority do I have over others (hint: it's fucking nothing)

I understand your point of giving words no power and agree with it somewhat, but it requires both sides, the person saying and the person listening, to give it no power. Over a message board we will never have any idea whether the person saying it really is a bigot or if the word has no power to them, and we don't want to allow GAF to become a place where bigots can justify their thoughts openly. I think that's the reasoning.

 

[Cyan]

You know, if you don't take words personally, they lose any of their potentially poisonous meaning. Suddenly, they're just any other word.

Words are a mechanism of communication. They have no inherent meaning, only that which we as interacting humans give them in order to enable communication of ideas.

Take racial slurs--regardless of their original meanings, whether those were actually malicious or mere abbreviations or nicknames, they acquired negative connotations, and if you use them it will be assumed that you intend to communicate those negative connotations.

So, too, with words like "bitch." It might be that in general, when you use that word, you're in an environment where the negative bits are ignored, and you are able to communicate what you really mean by it without misunderstanding. But there are many places where you do communicate the negative bits, even if that was not your intent.

The mods have decided to simply excise the word wholesale, as part of a broader effort to allow those who would receive negative communication from it to feel safer and more welcome. I'm not sure I entirely agree with the decision--I'd prefer them to use a bit more discretion--but I can understand why they made it.

Words only have the power that we give them. That doesn't make them empty pointers to simple and sharply defined concepts.

 

[Milchjon]

It's not like pejoratives are ways to signal your authority over others marginalized status. Oh wait.

I think your understanding of bitch is way different from mine. And from what I can tell, most other people's too.

 

[Htown]

Sorry, Devo. Can't walk down this road with you. I don't think I buy the argument that using the word "bitch" means that you lack empathy for abuse victims.

 

[CrankyJay]

The fact that you can continue to add to the stigma they face especially if you're going to continue to use words that have weight. The words have affected those people or said during times when they were assaulted, treated unfairly, shunned, and bullied. To act like every time you use it, it has a blank slate for them, is disingenuous as all fuck and plain wrong. Get some empathy for fucks sake.

We can't expect everyone to realize this overnight...you're up against years of complacency and institutionalization.

Sitting here at work and this reminds me of trying to saddle a horse and it's bucking because it's foreign to them.

 

[Riggs]

I think your understanding of bitch is way different from mine.

Agreed so much.

I love Devo I really do.

Just can't agree with her on this. Everything is contextual. Unfortunately I am not going to sit here and try to explain 60 different scenario's where bitch is less demeaning then when it is not. Simply do not say it on GAF, easy rule to follow even if you don't agree.

 

[Tess3ract]

Yes and I'm saying the words shouldn't have any weight at all.

I understand the correlation between some of the words and the actions, and how those people have been treated by said users of those words doesn't permeate into who I am. I don't do any of those things, I don't treat them like that. I don't go to my gay friends and call them a "faggot", I wouldn't dare.

However, I find it improper to base people's personalities based on their word usage instead of their actions. Granted that's all you have to go on with ~the internet~ but it's still shit.

A person should not be guilty by association, and that's exactly what you're saying.

 

[Devolution]

Sorry, Devo. Can't walk down this road with you. I don't think I buy the argument that using the word "bitch" means that you lack empathy for abuse victims.

I wasn't just talking about bitch when I wrote that, he got broad, so did I.

 

[CrankyJay]

Agreed so much.

I love Devo I really do.

Just can't agree with her on this. Everything is contextual. Unfortunately I am not going to sit here and try to explain 60 different scenario's where bitch is less demeaning then when it is not. Simply do not say it on GAF, easy rule to follow even if you don't agree.

Simple school of thought that has served me well...think before you speak. Choose your words carefully. (not you in general)

Just helps with things.