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[nkarafo]

This always bothers me about movies/comics or any other media depicting aliens from other planets or creatures from other dimensions. They never look like something completely out of our imagination. Sometimes it's something gross that looks like a creature from the abyss. Or a squid. Or something that looks like an insect. Or a mutant humanoid of some sort. Something that looks like it could as well exist on Earth or something that has characteristics from earthly things.

Why is it so hard to imagine something completely otherworldly, that doesn't look or move like something that could exist on Earth?

I think Neon Genesis Evangelion has some beings (so called "angels") that completely sell the idea of coming from another dimensions or planets. Now, some of them still look like they are inspired by earthly beings. Most of them look humanoid, for instance. And a couple look like sea creatures.

But you still have this multi-dimentional guy:

Is it a creature? A vehicle? A construction? I have no idea.



And how about this one:

Again, no idea. Though, this angel has something that clearly looks like an eye in the original series (so it's something recognizable). The one in the picture is from the remake.

If i saw any of these things appearing on the sky, i would be 100% sure they are aliens. They don't look like something that makes any sense and that's exactly what makes them look other-worldly. That's the key word. They are not from this world so why would they need to make any sense in our earthly minds?

Is there any other piece of media that has aliens that don't really have characteristics from earthly creatures or human technology?

 

[QSD]

There's a bunch of Star Trek episodes that go into the whole "it's life but not as we know it" theme (but there's far more with humanoid aliens cause they're relatable). It's tough for me to remember any specific episode, there are synopses on wikipedia.

Agree on that this is an under-explored concept in sci-fi/fantasy though. One of the reasons I like Japanese stuff is they seem to be more "free" with their imagination. Compare the creature design in Spirited Away to most disney movies, the best you'll get is talking animals or some shit. Evangelion is similarly super advanced where that is concerned. One thing I never understood about it is the religious connotations though.

 

[nkarafo]

One thing I never understood about it is the religious connotations though.

I thought this was a fun idea.

It's like the sci-fi/science based version of the bible instead of the standard supernatural/magical version.

 

[QSD]

I thought this was a fun idea.

It's like the sci-fi/science based version of the bible instead of the standard supernatural/magical version.

It's actually a pretty good idea but IIRC (it's been a long time since I saw evangelion, and I only ever saw the feature length movies 1-3) it's never addressed why or how they are "angels" or what's with the cruciform explosions so in that sense I never understood it (EDIT I don't know IIRC but Christianity is never mentioned or doesn't seem to exist in the movies...?)

BTW the final meeting with the "alien" in Annihilation goes into this territory for a bit

EDIT: also I assume you are familiar with Lovecraft?

 

[infinitys_7th]

There's a bunch of Star Trek episodes that go into the whole "it's life but not as we know it" theme (but there's far more with humanoid aliens cause they're relatable). It's tough for me to remember any specific episode, there are synopses on wikipedia.

Agree on that this is an under-explored concept in sci-fi/fantasy though. One of the reasons I like Japanese stuff is they seem to be more "free" with their imagination. Compare the creature design in Spirited Away to most disney movies, the best you'll get is talking animals or some shit. Evangelion is similarly super advanced where that is concerned. One thing I never understood about it is the religious connotations though.

You have the one with the crystalline entity, the one with the silicon microbes, the one with the warp drive symbiote/parasite. Trek was definitely good at looking outside of the "biological box" when it comes to life. Speaking from a little experience in micro and genetics, I've always had an issue with the definition of "life". It's not generalized, just based on chemical reactions, generally organic, because that is all that biologists dealt with while their dogmas were being set. The way things are now, AI would not be considered to be "life".

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Here is the plot twist with Eva.

Spoiler: Eva

The Angels were the original inhabitants of Earth. The progenitor of humans came during the first impact. We're the aliens.

I agree with you though OP. If there is life on other planets, it is fundamentally different from life here on earth.

 

[Sakura]

I think there are a lot of anime like that. Fafner comes to mind, for example.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Evangelion has always interested me but I have been told the story is super bizarre and makes little sense.

 

[nkarafo]

I think there are a lot of anime like that. Fafner comes to mind, for example.

Could you post any example creature? From a fast google search i saw some monsters with very obvious earthly characteristics (head, eyes, mouth, etc).

 

[DKehoe]

The aliens in Arrival are pretty alien. Them being beyond our comprehension is kind of the point of them.

 

[nkarafo]

Evangelion has always interested me but I have been told the story is super bizarre and makes little sense.

Yeah, it has that issue for sure. And it gets too pretentious later on, with some parts that look like avant garde, poetic shit.

But it's worth it only for its amazing visual design and animation IMO. The original 90's series is the peak of hand drawn TV productions.

The aliens in Arrival are pretty alien. Them being beyond our comprehension is kind of the point of them.

They looked like sea creatures to me. Their writing style looked imaginative though.

 

[QSD]

The way things are now, AI would not be considered to be "life".

"...but there it sits!" Right? ;-)

Actually I have mixed thoughts about this, though. I'm a psychologist by education, and one thing that always struck me as difficult about making human-like AI is that it's very tough to imagine how you could create human (or even animal) motivations in a machine. Most of our motivations closely linked to our physiology (pain, hunger, lust, fear, etc etc). These are qualia, specific to the realm of our consciousness and having a living body, and it isn't at all clear to me if and how they could be recreated in a machine with no 'physiology' to speak of.

 

[INC]

The aliens in Arrival are pretty alien. Them being beyond our comprehension is kind of the point of them.

Was gonna say exactly the same

And the alien from the navigator

 

[Sakura]

Could you post any example creature? From a fast google search i saw some monsters with very obvious earthly characteristics (head, eyes, mouth, etc).

I'm not getting much from google image searches sorry. Yes there are lots of them that have "earthly characteristics" sure, but there are also Angels in Evangelion that have that too. They are very different life forms though than Earth life in terms of their construction and how they function.

 

[QSD]

Spoiler: ending of annihilation

 

[infinitys_7th]

"...but there it sits!" Right? ;-)

Actually I have mixed thoughts about this, though. I'm a psychologist by education, and one thing that always struck me as difficult about making human-like AI is that it's very tough to imagine how you could create human (or even animal) motivations in a machine. Most of our motivations closely linked to our physiology (pain, hunger, lust, fear, etc etc). These are qualia, specific to the realm of our consciousness and having a living body, and it isn't at all clear to me if and how they could be recreated in a machine with no 'physiology' to speak of.

That's the thing - that's the prejudice of biology. Why do we have pain? To tell us to stop doing something or we'll die and not pass on our genetic information. Why do we have hunger? To tell us we need to consume raw materials or we'll die and not pass on our genetic information. Why do we have lust? To tell us we need to pass on our genetic information and reward us for it. Life revolves around storing and manipulating information. We are just our genes' way of doing so.

I think letting any form of biological science determine what "life" is is a mistake. Biology is just one specialized chemistry, so I don't see why it should be the end all of determining what life is. Math and computer science are better bases because of their generalization.

 

[nkarafo]

but there are also Angels in Evangelion that have that too.

Yeah i mentioned that in the OP. But i focused only on some that don't have that.

 

[Fbh]

Star Wars is way ahead of you:

God tier character design right there.


But seriously though if we are looking at all of fiction you have things like Colour out of Space

Evangelion has always interested me but I have been told the story is super bizarre and makes little sense.

It's still worth a watch.
It goes into the pretentious unnecessarily convoluted territory towards the end but it's still fun and there's plenty of sources online to clear up some story elements you might have questions about

 

[DKehoe]

They looked like sea creatures to me. Their writing style looked imaginative though.

There's definitely a sea creature influence to the design that's true. Although we never quite get a clear look at them though, right? They're always kept just a little beyond us being able to fully comprehend them.

Also, 2001: A Space Odyssey.

 

[QSD]

That's the thing - that's the prejudice of biology. Why do we have pain? To tell us to stop doing something or we'll die and not pass on our genetic information. Why do we have hunger? To tell us we need to consume raw materials or we'll die and not pass on our genetic information. Why do we have lust? To tell us we need to pass on our genetic information and reward us for it. Life revolves around storing and manipulating information. We are just our genes' way of doing so.

I think letting any form of biological science determine what "life" is is a mistake. Biology is just one specialized chemistry, so I don't see why it should be the end all of determining what life is. Math and computer science are better bases because of their generalization.

you could say 'life' is 'any process that reproduces its information' or something along those lines

The problem is that when there's a public debate about whether an AI is "alive" for example, the colloquial use of the word 'life' starts getting in the way. (e.g. 'that's life!' or 'life's a bitch and then you die') where 'life' means 'whatever I'm going through at the moment'. For a lot of people, 'life' requires pathos, even though a tree is also alive and it is at best unclear whether a tree or amoeba has anything like the consciousness we have.

 

[Mistake]

There’s plenty out there, you just have to look. Usually it’s the surreal or gothic stuff like zdzislaw beksinski or artists for novels.

 

[INC]

The Thing, because you never really know what it is, is it an alien, or a virus...., did it wipe out the aliens on the ship
, or was it the alien.....

 

[SKM1]

AFAIK Evangelion is wholly based on religion and their depictions of angel's are close matches to those on the bible. They are not "aliens" but mystical creatures.

We assume aliens to have some kinds of shapes because we assume them to be carbon based life-forms.

 

[Rentahamster]

AFAIK Evangelion is wholly based on religion and their depictions of angel's are close matches to those on the bible. They are not "aliens" but mystical creatures.

We assume aliens to have some kinds of shapes because we assume them to be carbon based life-forms.

Evangelion is not "wholly based" on religion. The only reason they used religious symbolism because they thought it looked cool and foreign. That's it.

Statements by Evangelion Staff - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

Can you explain the symbolism of the cross in Evangelion?

KT: There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice.

Anno: I'm not into Western civilization, you know. Somehow I don't trust Western civilization very much.

Omori: Is that as something to be denied?

Anno: It doesn't relate to me, so I can use it. If I were a Christian, I'd be too scared to use Christian stuffs.

Omori: Indeed. You don't have any attachments, so you can use the name of an angel. Like let's use this name because its sense of language sounds nice.

Anno: To equate apostles and angels is so much to complain about from a westerner's point of view. There is an American worker in our company, and he scolded me for many things, saying it was wrong. That's normal. But I didn't care about that and just did it.

Omori: On the other hand, I thought of it as a story to climb the human evolutionary ladder, from Clarke's "The End of Childhood" to Sakyo Komatsu, and more recently, Gregg Bear's "Blood Music".

Anno: I don't know. I don't think what I was trying to do was that big of a deal.

Omori: It does look like it's a big deal (laughs).

Anno: Oh yeah?

Omori: Because you say "Instrumentality of Mankind" (laughs) .

Anno: Only the wording is exaggerated. It's just cool when it's written in kanji:

人類補完計画.

Buried Treasure - Hideaki Anno Talks to Kids

In this week's Buried Treasure, otaku director with issues Hideaki Anno addresses a terrifying audience: a class of 6th graders.

www.animenewsnetwork.com

"Why is that robot-thingy called Evangelion?"

"It comes from a Christian word meaning 'Gospel' and it's supposed to bring blessings. It has has some Greek roots. I chose the name because it sounds complicated."

https://www.gwern.net/otaku

According to a very frank and open 40-minute interview by Anno on the NHK TV program “Top Runner” (http://www.nhk.org.jp/tr/) about a week or so ago, all religious and philosophical references, while providing a coherent setting for the story, were used for the specific purpose of looking cool and to make Anno & company appear intelligent.

Anno himself called it “pedantry” (the display/parading of one’s intelligence)

 

[Taxexemption]

There's a bunch of Star Trek episodes that go into the whole "it's life but not as we know it" theme (but there's far more with humanoid aliens cause they're relatable). It's tough for me to remember any specific episode, there are synopses on wikipedia.

Agree on that this is an under-explored concept in sci-fi/fantasy though. One of the reasons I like Japanese stuff is they seem to be more "free" with their imagination. Compare the creature design in Spirited Away to most disney movies, the best you'll get is talking animals or some shit. Evangelion is similarly super advanced where that is concerned. One thing I never understood about it is the religious connotations though.

IIRC spirited away character designs are heavily borrowed from Japanese mythology, and if you played games that borrow from their mythology a lot or at least some of the characters would be familiar. The Shin Megami Tensei series has some similar looking characters.


As to the topic in general, it's rather difficult to imagine something that is completely not humanlike but is still intelligent. It's much easier to imagine that a different animal took an evolutionary path that lead it to be like humans. I think an advanced species like ours is going to look somewhat similar because you need an ability to manipulate items with something like hands in order to develop technology. The only alternative I can imagine existing as a species that could develop advanced technology is if somehow a species had a completely different way of manipulating items to make tools. I don't think any kind of PSI or similar manipulation of objects with some kind of mental power is possible, though if it is that's pretty scary.


I think if the galaxy is populated by aliens that are intelligent they look at least vaguely like us. If they aren't intelligent enough for space travel, then I think they could look all sorts of really bizarre ways, and I imagine there are worlds out there populated by giant insects. The thought used to freak me out, until it was explained to me in a science class that you need a particularly oxygen rich environment for that kind of being to exist, and so earth likely is not inhabitable for them unless the bugs develop their own advanced spacesuits or other technology to compensate for the relative lack of oxygen in our atmosphere.


It would be genuinely interesting to explore the world far away from earth, unfortunately, unless extreme life extension or other technology gets developed in our lifetime I won't get to see what that would actually be like.


Edit: It's been awhile but Evangelion and a number of other noteable Japanese stories are influenced by Christian mythology. I believe Evangelion, Tactics Ogre, and one of the Persona games all have refemces tp Longinus, which according to some legend is the spear that pierced Jesus side, and in various stories it has supernatural power.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

The Festum do have some humanoid features in Fafner but it's a good fucking show btw. An Evangelion clone that successfully broke out of that mold and became its own franchise.

 

[QSD]

Evangelion is not "wholly based" on religion. The only reason they used religious symbolism because they thought it looked cool and foreign. That's it.

Wow this is the most thorough refutation this site has seen in a while LOL. It's kinda fun to read the way he used Christianity in a similar way to which "exotic" cultures were used in a lot of western entertainment and there was apparently even a Christian woman working for them who thought it was cultural appropriation or something.
Isn't there some tradition within Christianity that depicts angels as geometric shapes though...? IDK

As to the topic in general, it's rather difficult to imagine something that is completely not humanlike but is still intelligent. It's much easier to imagine that a different animal took an evolutionary path that lead it to be like humans. I think an advanced species like ours is going to look somewhat similar because you need an ability to manipulate items with something like hands in order to develop technology. The only alternative I can imagine existing as a species that could develop advanced technology is if somehow a species had a completely different way of manipulating items to make tools. I don't think any kind of PSI or similar manipulation of objects with some kind of mental power is possible, though if it is that's pretty scary.

Yeah the bottom line is we just don't know what's out there. It's very hard for us to step outside the paradigm of our own consciousness and experience of life. It's certainly not inconceivable to me that there are beings that can manipulate the world on a completely different level from us, but once you're there you're really in completely unexplored territory. One of the recurring sceptic themes on the UFO topic is "why would hyper advanced aliens want to observe some dumb monkey creatures" but we just don't know what a hyper advanced life form originating from another planet would want at all. It's already rather impossible for us to imagine what it's like to be a tree, let alone a completely alien organism.

I think if the galaxy is populated by aliens that are intelligent they look at least vaguely like us. If they aren't intelligent enough for space travel, then I think they could look all sorts of really bizarre ways, and I imagine there are worlds out there populated by giant insects. The thought used to freak me out, until it was explained to me in a science class that you need a particularly oxygen rich environment for that kind of being to exist, and so earth likely is not inhabitable for them unless the bugs develop their own advanced spacesuits or other technology to compensate for the relative lack of oxygen in our atmosphere.

Actually (relatively) huge bugs existed on earth for a while thanks to high oxygen levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthropleura
Perhaps they invented philosophy too but once one of them suggested they should put their best foot forward they stalled out

It would be genuinely interesting to explore the world far away from earth, unfortunately, unless extreme life extension or other technology gets developed in our lifetime I won't get to see what that would actually be like.

EDIT: sorry for epic derail

 

[Rentahamster]

Is there any other piece of media that has aliens that don't really have characteristics from earthly creatures or human technology?

Hey OP read this:

https://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf

 

[Rentahamster]

As to the topic in general, it's rather difficult to imagine something that is completely not humanlike but is still intelligent. It's much easier to imagine that a different animal took an evolutionary path that lead it to be like humans. I think an advanced species like ours is going to look somewhat similar because you need an ability to manipulate items with something like hands in order to develop technology.

Not necessarily. Fine tool manipulation can be achieved with appendages other than human-like hands.

That's not even mentioning the rest of the body.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Maybe not exactly alien, the Fate Grand order Babylonia have some creepy enemy toward the end call Larmu, whihc look unworld.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Evangelion is not "wholly based" on religion. The only reason they used religious symbolism because they thought it looked cool and foreign. That's it.

Statements by Evangelion Staff - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

Buried Treasure - Hideaki Anno Talks to Kids

In this week's Buried Treasure, otaku director with issues Hideaki Anno addresses a terrifying audience: a class of 6th graders.

www.animenewsnetwork.com

https://www.gwern.net/otaku

Yeah, from what I've read over the years there is so much western religious stuff in anime/games simply because it looks cool and foreign to them, and nothing more. Which makes sense in hindsight considering how random and out of context it usually is.

 

[Jon Neu]

Here is the plot twist with Eva.

Spoiler: Eva

The Angels were the original inhabitants of Earth. The progenitor of humans came during the first impact. We're the aliens.

Not exactly.

Eva and Nadia spoilers below:

Spoiler

Neither Angels or Lilims (humans) were the original inhabitants of Earth. They both came from space out of a civilization from a planet of the milky way galaxy that faced some kind of cataclismic extinction, but before they created 7 moons (basically space ships cointaining the souls of that ancestral alien race). Those moons were launched into the universe and each moon contained a seed of life (Adam, Lilith, etc...) which are the beings that create life on the planets they land on. Every moon had a lance of longinus, which is a living being that acts as a mechanism of regulation of the seeds of life. When Lilith's moon collided with earth (the first impact), the crash resulted in the creation of the actual real moon, but also destroyed Lilith's lance of longinus.

2 seeds of life can't (or shouldn't) coexist in the same planet, so the lance of longinus of Adam in face of the situation acted and put Adam into some kind of dormancy. So in reality Angels and Humans are both aliens, but also they are kind of the same.

Nadia, the previous anime from Anno, also had a very similar background with the Atlanteans actually being aliens who had their souls preserved for the sake of travelling through space and continue to propagate their life and legacy. A lot of similarities I wouldn't go into detail right now because I'm not in the mood.

Anno's fascination with judeo-christian mythology and symbolism was present in Nadia too.

I absolutely love Nadia, by the way.

 

[BigBooper]

Star Trek's got it beat. Here's just a taste

 

[niveaformen]

Not sure if IT's actual form was a spider or just one of its manifestations but it's kind of like The Thing, as someone mentioned above.

 

[poppabk]

The aliens in the Edge of Tomorrow movie are suitably alien like (except maybe the Alphas).

 

[kuncol02]

35 posts and no one talks about classic SciFi literature like Solaris or Ender's Game (especially sequels). There are also newer books like Revelation Space, Blindsight or Lód written by best currently best living writer Jacek Dukaj (unfortunatelly not translated to english).

 

[TheGrat1]

The titular Sphere from the the 1998 film fits the bill, I think:

Just a large, golden metallic colored ball that is somehow capable of wireless communication. It has been a long time since I saw the film so I can not recall it's origin. It certainly seems "alien", though.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

The titular Sphere from the the 1998 film fits the bill, I think:

Just a large, golden metallic colored ball that is somehow capable of wireless communication. It has been a long time since I saw the film so I can not recall it's origin. It certainly seems "alien", though.

My memory is hazy but is that the film where they all had to hold hands at the end? I couldnt stop laughing.

 

[Spaceman292]

Obviously not. Maybe you should try reading some sci fi books you big weeb.

 

[Rest]

There's a bunch of Star Trek episodes that go into the whole "it's life but not as we know it" theme (but there's far more with humanoid aliens cause they're relatable). It's tough for me to remember any specific episode, there are synopses on wikipedia.

Agree on that this is an under-explored concept in sci-fi/fantasy though. One of the reasons I like Japanese stuff is they seem to be more "free" with their imagination. Compare the creature design in Spirited Away to most disney movies, the best you'll get is talking animals or some shit. Evangelion is similarly super advanced where that is concerned. One thing I never understood about it is the religious connotations though.

There's that tar thing that kill Natasha Yar, which they then murdered. There was also the "on dimensional beings" which pulled the Enterprise out of warp.

 

[Birdo]

 

[Lupingosei]

Interest

I think Neon Genesis Evangelion has some beings (so called "angels") that completely sell the idea of coming from another dimensions or planets. Now, some of them still look like they are inspired by earthly beings. Most of them look humanoid, for instance. And a couple look like sea creatures.

You do realize that the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion are closer to angels in the way they were described in the bible.

 

[Bennettt2]

This topic is on the same path as an idea that sprang to me recently...

if the laws of nature and the universe are written in mathematics, then you could reason that any higher, alien form of life might appear mathematically abstract or, in other words, could resemble some complex combination of abstract geometric shapes. circles, quadrilaterals, triangles... there's clearly one in Eva that even moves and transforms mysteriously, symmetrically, and I wouldn't call it a stretch to say mathematically.

Eva is my favourite anime but I admit I've never fully understood every design choice in it.

 

[Hardensoul]

Not exactly.

Eva and Nadia spoilers below:

Spoiler

Neither Angels or Lilims (humans) were the original inhabitants of Earth. They both came from space out of a civilization from a planet of the milky way galaxy that faced some kind of cataclismic extinction, but before they created 7 moons (basically space ships cointaining the souls of that ancestral alien race). Those moons were launched into the universe and each moon contained a seed of life (Adam, Lilith, etc...) which are the beings that create life on the planets they land on. Every moon had a lance of longinus, which is a living being that acts as a mechanism of regulation of the seeds of life. When Lilith's moon collided with earth (the first impact), the crash resulted in the creation of the actual real moon, but also destroyed Lilith's lance of longinus.

2 seeds of life can't (or shouldn't) coexist in the same planet, so the lance of longinus of Adam in face of the situation acted and put Adam into some kind of dormancy. So in reality Angels and Humans are both aliens, but also they are kind of the same.

Nadia, the previous anime from Anno, also had a very similar background with the Atlanteans actually being aliens who had their souls preserved for the sake of travelling through space and continue to propagate their life and legacy. A lot of similarities I wouldn't go into detail right now because I'm not in the mood.

Anno's fascination with judeo-christian mythology and symbolism was present in Nadia too.

I absolutely love Nadia, by the way.

Nadia at the time, I really enjoyed but that last episode! Why! Sanson and Marie! I cannot recommend!

Spoiler

This some Pedo crap, they got married. 23 yr apart!!

 

[nkarafo]

Interest


You do realize that the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion are closer to angels in the way they were described in the bible.

Too many bird wings and eyes though