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Is Nintendo "off the hook" next generation?

S

Speevy

Banned
From day one, I remember the gradual deconstruction of the Gamecube.

-Gamecube kiosks: N65?
-Super Mario Sunshine and its marketing, then the final release disappointments
-The Legend of Zelda: Cel-shaded debacle and delay
-Sale of Rare
-Left Field leaves
-Starfox Adventures/Rare sucked anyway
-Rogue Leader series: Shallow and all graphics?
-Metroid Prime: "What's with these controls?"
-Capcom 5: No longer exclusive
-Mario Kart Double Dash: Too slow?
-Silicon Knights: No longer Nintendo exclusive
-Factor 5: No longer making Nintendo games
-Eidos: dropped support
-Not one release in April 2005?
-Price drop: Can it get any lower? Sir, would you like a $30 used Gamecube?
-Sega Sports: dropped support
-Connectiivity: What is Nintendo doing? Pacman VS?
-New Zelda: OMG looks amazing, then "Looks okay.", then "Looks like crap.", then "Delayed until 2006."
-Resident Evil 4 ported to PS2
-Tales of Symphonia ported to PS2
-Harvest Moon ported to PS2
-Insult to injury, Super Monkey Ball ported to Xbox and PS2


I could go on and on. These are just steps in the endless onslaught of things that brought down the Gamecube in the mind of your average forumer, and consequently, the average gamer.

But it seems that the avalanche of bad news has shifted its trajectory toward MS. So do we really care anymore how badly Nintendo screws up as long as the company stays in business? I don't, personally. If you're buying Nintendo's third console, you're giving the company a third chance. And they say that the third time's a charm, afterall, so I think reasonable expectations are in order.

This time, I see a generally negative and pessimistic attitude toward the MS console brand developing, while it seems as though Nintendo's image has been cleansed. No developers to lose. Sales can't get any lower. High-end technical graphics aren't the main focus.

Do you think Nintendo will be criticized as harshly next generation as the company was during this one? Why or why not?
 
Nintendo will be criticized to no end if their paradigm shift falls flat. If the controller doesn't offer the "revolution" that Nintendo has promised, you will never hear the end of it.
 
it seems to be almost noone gives a shit about nintendo ecept for the fanboys... of course this could just be soley from my own point of view.

maybe when nintendo actually shows some games things will change
 
With GC's lackluster performance, rev will definetly be make-or-break for nintendo. So far, they've took the first step in the right direction with the console's appearance. Only a step mind you, as nintendo has a way's to go before they can rebuild their credibility.
 
Nintendo will never be off the hook to some people. People were giving Nintendo shit when the Super Nintendo was out. The Super fucking Nintendo!?!
 
Acclaim dropped support!

Overall, pretty moot points
Nintendo will always be criticized for whatever they do since they have a long legacy and have touched many people.
I'll be happy as long as they continue to make fantastic games, but their need of a property console is quite questionable.

All the bitching really boils down to people wanting to play Nintendo's games, but they don't want the pick up a console just for their software.
 
No matter what Nintendo does, even if it´s the smartest move ever, it will get bashed and criticised by people. It´s a given.
 
I can't even imagine point of sale for Revolution. Are they going to have a kiosk with a remote teathered by a chain or something?

I don't think Nintendo is even remotely at risk of real failure. But I think the degree to which their financial success can be met by widespread popularity will be determined by just what joe consumer thinks when he sees and plays with the thing in shops or round at his friends house.

Its either gonna be something people don't get, or its gonna be really talked about..
 
op_ivy said:
it seems to be almost noone gives a shit about nintendo ecept for the fanboys...
Click to expand...
I somehow doubt that its only fanboys. Whenever a Nintendo thread is created, its a huge success (# of posts). I'm sure this thread will also get the royal treatment. :)
 
Speevy said:
If you're buying Nintendo's third console, you're giving the company a third chance. And they say that the third time's a charm, afterall, so I think reasonable expectations are in order.
Click to expand...

Huh? Do you mean their third system that didn't do well?
 
Speevy said:
-New Zelda: OMG looks amazing, then "Looks okay.", then "Looks like crap.", then "Delayed until 2006."
-Insult to injury, Super Monkey Ball ported to Xbox and PS2
Click to expand...

1. Who said Zelda looks like crap? There's gonna be hell to pay!
2. The only one that was injured with the SMB ports were Sega :lol

If you're buying Nintendo's third console, you're giving the company a third chance. And they say that the third time's a charm, afterall, so I think reasonable expectations are in order.
Click to expand...

I do wish people would stop looking at the N64 as a failure. Nintendo's software was at it's prime, and minus a few exceptions on the GC, hasn't been surpassed.
 
empanada said:
I somehow doubt that its only fanboys. Whenever a Nintendo thread is created, its a huge success (# of posts). I'm sure this thread will also get the royal treatment. :)
Click to expand...


actually, only if the thread is negative. if its a positive thread, it will either turn negative pretty quickly, or be largely ignored.
 
Nintendo is my Mario,Metroid,and StarFox machine,that's about it. I feel no need to criticize them simply because for me it's best to expectations low.
 
Oblivion said:
I do wish people would stop looking at the N64 as a failure. Nintendo's software was at it's prime, and minus a few exceptions on the GC, hasn't been surpassed.
Click to expand...


its never going to happen. but hey, it did better than xbox.. didnt it?
 
Nintendo has alot of expectations to live up to now that the Revolution was featured in Time Magazine's Top 5 article. You can bet, it's not just the fanboys who are looking at the system now. Let's hope they deliver.

As far as the raging fanboys, I couldn't care less what they think. I actually applaud that Nintendo is going out on a limb. Better to have a system that tries to do something a little different that the other two.

Still, I do want to see a one platform future, though. I just want to buy my Nintendo/Panasonic/Pioneer/Samsung/whatever player and buy whatever games I want to play. I can't understand how this hasn't come to pass as of yet. I mean, CD and DVD is standardized. It looks like Blu-Ray will be the next gen standard. So why can't games become standardized.
 
several of your points are pretty insgnificant IMO, expecially the metroid prime and SMS ones

and I'm sure they'll always be criticized, especially by the former pc-gamers and now xbots, however as long as they keep making good games they'll still be around and will still sell their software
 
Oblivion said:
I do wish people would stop looking at the N64 as a failure. Nintendo's software was at it's prime, and minus a few exceptions on the GC, hasn't been surpassed.
Click to expand...

But they sold a third of the hardware units than NES and less than Super Nintendo. If people want to read it that way, they can look at these consoles in succession and paint a picture of dwindling mindshare, and d00msay to their hearts content in spite of the financial picture. Gamecube also has 3 times the third party software that N64 had. Gamecube may have sold about 10m less in terms of hardware, but what they've lost in 10 million seller Mario and Zelda games, they're gaining with partner's third party games even if third parties perform unfavourably on it compared to competing machines. Bottom line is - despite Nintendo's financial health - if you compare them to the first two Nintendo home consoles, and then PlayStation and PlayStation 2 - you can reasonably say that Nintendo 64 and Gamecube are most definately failures. Is it as bad as the haters say? No. But since when has it ever been anything but venting for ventings sake?

Xbox is a bit of an anomaly really. The biggest software company in the world reaching 2/3+ billion deep into its pockets isn't going to happen again next gen...
 
..pakbeka.. said:
several of your points are pretty insgnificant IMO, expecially the metroid prime and SMS ones
Click to expand...



Metroid Prime's sales dropped like a stone after the holiday season, while Splinter Cell's continued to be strong. I think the controls and unique nature of the game had plenty to do with this.
 
There are always gonig to be the types who just don't like Nintendo, and there will be others who will think they can do no wrong, no matter WHAT they do.

Personally I think that such an entirely new direction that they've gone with the Revolution will be enough to make up for the many mistakes they've made with the Gamecube. Hell, it looks like they're getting back Squaresoft (-enix) support, one of the big reasons for the downfall of Nintendo consoles.
 
loz:tp looks like shit

the textures look like they were borrowed from OoT and the art direction seems off. the game just doesn't look very attractive.

i wish it were cel shaded
 
Its not even about Nintendo when it comes to internet forums but rather the amount of people who still love Nintendo. Digital tough guys can't stand to see anyone giving praise to this company because in their opinion Nintendo has failed them in every imaginable way or they are Bitter Sega fans who resent Nintendo still being in the console buisness. If these people really just had a simple distaste for the company and their games then they wouldn't talk about them as much as they do and they would be no more discussed than Titus.
 
Yamauchi said:
Who said Zelda looks like crap?
Click to expand...

QFT

Zelda looks great in motion. By May, it'll look breathtaking.

Nintendo dropped the ball many times this generation. There is no denying that. But, they had a profitable console, and they aren't in any financial danger (currently). Next gen, I have hope, but not too much. I'm positive we'll see some amazing games, but I have a feeling the Revolution will underpreform in the US.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
But they sold a third of the hardware units than NES and less than Super Nintendo. If people want to read it that way, they can look at these consoles in succession and paint a picture of dwindling mindshare, and d00msay to their hearts content in spite of the financial picture. Gamecube also has 3 times the third party software that N64 had. Gamecube may have sold about 10m less in terms of hardware, but what they've lost in 10 million seller Mario and Zelda games, they're gaining with partner's third party games even if third parties perform unfavourably on it compared to competing machines. Bottom line is - despite Nintendo's financial health - if you compare them to the first two Nintendo home consoles, and then PlayStation and PlayStation 2 - you can reasonably say that Nintendo 64 and Gamecube are most definately failures. Is it as bad as the haters say? No. But since when has it ever been anything but venting for ventings sake?
Click to expand...

Well, you're right about N64 being a failure in terms of dwindling market share. However, I was mainly referring to Nintendo's own quality output, which I simply feel has been dwindling as well since the start of the GC. I know it has more third party games, but for me, I judge Nintendo by their own merits, since whatever third party game doesn't show up for them will come on PS2 (or Xbox). Just my thoughts, really.
 
Francois the Great said:
loz:tp looks like shit

the textures look like they were borrowed from OoT and the art direction seems off. the game just doesn't look very attractive.

i wish it were cel shaded
Click to expand...


are you basing this off of pictures or video? cause the game looks much better in motion.
 
I dont see how Nintendo is off the hook. They have made some huge claims about their upcoming console. Using the word "Revolution" could come back to bite them in the ass if the software doesn't deliver.

I think the Revolution has a huge chance of being highly successful in Japan. Its going to be a huge struggle in the US and Europe though. The casual western gamer would be more interested in the next Halo, GTA or Madden game. How is Nintendo going to compete against these names?

I can see casual gamers letting out a collective "WTF!?" when they see the Revolution control. Nintendo Rev needs a majorly aggressive marketing campaign. They need to get people on the store floor promoting this console. More importantly, they need to let customers touch and feel this console.

If people dont understand what the Rev is all about, Nintendo will have failed. If people avoid the Rev because the graphics arent as good, they have completely missed the point and Nintendo can only blame themselves.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
are you basing this off of pictures or video? cause the game looks much better in motion.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU

I don't seem to remember these haters blasting Zelda during E3 when the videos came out. The game looks great.
 
It does feel like they've turned the tide, which is really quite impressive. I think the turning point was the DS while the Revolution controller has made even more gains for Nintendo in terms of positive mindshare. Online has helped alot too, shame they didn't do it earlier.
 
Like I said before, I think it all depends on what your average gamer thinks when he touches the machine. There'll be some marketing needed, but they wouldnt need to go any more to town than they did with DS.

Revolution lives and dies on word of mouth imo.

People are going to talk about it, its what they say thats important. The initial feedback is good, but we'll see. Think about the feedback for Gamecube: well basically its inbetween Playstation 2 and Xbox in terms of power, it typically comes in purple, has a handle, third party games are better and have online on Xbox, it doesnt have Halo, Gran Turismo, real Final Fantasy or Metal Gear 2/3. If you want sports go elsewhere. The only positives people would have talked about would have been the Nintendo games themselves, the very few second and third party exclusives and/or nice comments would have came as a result of a wider reaching affinity for Nintendo machines. They were middle of the road this generation with Gamecube. As much as I've enjoyed it (I have 40+ games on it), I can totally see why it doesnt fly off shelves.

With Revolution, theres potentially a lot more to get the public talking about.
 
I've always said that we have to give Iwata a chance to show his vision for the company.

He came onboard and had to deal with a failed vision left by Yamauchi. The Rev will be the first console that has been designed with his vision for the future of the company. The Rev has already been listed in Time magazine, and pretty much all of the people who actually had hands on time with the demos at TGS have praised the control method.

I'm a Nintendo fan through and through, but I'm not one of the fanatical ones. I really think that they could be onto something here. How significant of an impact it will have on the industry, only quality software from both Nintendo and third parties, and time will tell.

Hell, I'll still pick it up on day one just to play MP2:E with the new control scheme, as it's on my pile of shame right now. It's the only place where I can get Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and Fire Emblem, so a Nintendo system in my home is a given. :)
 
No one is allowed to say TP looks like crap unless they've played it.


And it most certainly does not look like crap in motion.
 
PhoenixDark said:
THANK YOU

I don't seem to remember these haters blasting Zelda during E3 when the videos came out. The game looks great.
Click to expand...

Exactly! The forest temple looked beatiful.
 
-Price drop: Can it get any lower? Sir, would you like a $30 used Gamecube?
Click to expand...

So is this the Nintendo troll version of Nbots boasting about profit? I fail to see how a more affordable product is bad for the consumer.
 
Nintendo's success will hinge on whether or not it can be labled as the new "thing." If Nintendo follows their current path, they'll distance themselves from MS and Sony and be seen as "the toy everyone can play." With the legacy console realing in oldschool gamers, the controller for off the wall "party" like antics, and the controller shell for hardcore gamers, there'll be something for everyone. But for all this to work, nintendo has to follow through with awesome titles to cover the last two bases, and easy and cheap downloades for the first. If they can get the're act together, they may just become the Ipod of videogames.
 
I think the Rev will be a hard sell. Everyone is saying; wait for teh games! But I strongly suspect that when we actually see the games, in video or screens, we will be disappointed. (well most. Gahigiddy will orgasm)

Then it will shift to "it's all about the play" and the controller side of things.

Because of this I'm not really expecting any screens unless they coincide with lots of hands on play to go along with it.
 
The people basing Zelda: TP's graphics are just sour. Honestly people. The Gamecube is still a current gen console. The new Zelda looks fantastic.....what were people expecting here?

So there arent any blades of grass. Thats such a minor complaint in the grand scheme of a Zelda game.

I have nothing but pity for those who wont experience the new Zelda.
 
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