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[radioheadrule83]

I think the Rev will be a hard sell. Everyone is saying; wait for teh games! But I strongly suspect that when we actually see the games, in video or screens, we will be disappointed. (well most. Gahigiddy will orgasm)

Then it will shift to "it's all about the play" and the controller side of things.

Because of this I'm not really expecting any screens unless they coincide with lots of hands on play to go along with it.

It'd be funny if they released super high res renders filtered through photoshop for what in reality are 480p games. It'd be Amped all over again..

I think people expecting a graphical gulf will be disappointed though. Resolutions one issue thats bound to be divisive along HDTV/SDTV boundaries... I reckon we're set to see all kinds of image mutilitation on forums too. Who wants to see a bunch of 1080i images posted in a thread when they could get a decent idea from some resized ones? Its all gonna have impact. And besides, barre certain exceptional titles (which obviously look incredible), people aren't exactly sounding blown away by next gen at the moment..

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I think the Rev will be a hard sell. Everyone is saying; wait for teh games! But I strongly suspect that when we actually see the games, in video or screens, we will be disappointed. (well most. Gahigiddy will orgasm)

Then it will shift to "it's all about the play" and the controller side of things.

Because of this I'm not really expecting any screens unless they coincide with lots of hands on play to go along with it.

Possibly. Knowing GAF, when they do release screenshots, half of us will love it, half will hate it. But methinks most people have conceded the fact that rev will be behind 360 and ps3 in the graphics department.

 

[Oblivion]

I think the Rev will be a hard sell. Everyone is saying; wait for teh games! But I strongly suspect that when we actually see the games, in video or screens, we will be disappointed. (well most. Gahigiddy will orgasm)

Nintendo only needs one game to show what the Rev. is really capable of. Nintendo paved the way on the 64 by showing Mario 64, now they have to do the same with the Rev. Now the only question is, how would they accomplish a Mario game like that? I can imagine flicking the controller up when you want him to jump, but that might be quite difficult in a 3D plane. But I'm gonna put my faith in Nintendo to deliver whatever weird plan they have.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Nintendo only needs one game to show what the Rev. is really capable of. Nintendo paved the way on the 64 by showing Mario 64, now they have to do the same with the Rev. Now the only question is, how would they accomplish a Mario game like that? I can imagine flicking the controller up when you want him to jump, but that might be quite difficult in a 3D plane. But I'm gonna put my faith in Nintendo to deliver whatever weird plan they have.

But N64 was a failure!

 

[krypt0nian]

I would like to add that everyone who posted "not next gen" in the xbox 360 topics and is a fan of Nintendo and the Revolution has some comeuppance shortly.

And don't be postng that the controller makes it "next gen" as I will laugh and throw elderberries at you.

Thank you.

....oh and N64 had a large handful of GREAT games and for that alone it wasn't a failure in my eyes.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's going to be diffulcult to market this thing, and Nintendo has never been good at marketing. The DS' marketing surrounding the launch was good, but ever since then it has waned. With the Revolution, they are going to need to demonstrate the controller with a great looking game. Right now, we haven't seen any games. I am still amazed that Iwata didn't have Miyamoto demonstrate a game at TGS.

I'm sure Nintendo will come up with a great game to sell the system though. But, will it be Mario? Looking at that controller, I can't really see how a traditional Mario game would work on it. With Metroid, Zelda, and every other Nintendo game I can think of controller uses in seconds, but not with Mario. For the US, will they have a FPS ready to sell people on the controller?

In Japan, I'm more than confident the Revolution will challenge the PS3. I wouldn't be suprised if it winds up winning the console wars there. But in the US...we'll see.

 

[koam]

I don't get the N65 thing nor the 3rd console bit.. this is nintendo's 5th. With that being said, people will always critisize nintendo.

P.S Zelda looks great.

OH and have can you even dare to ask this question, did you not miss the whole "NO HD FOR REV" fiasco?

 

[Oblivion]

....oh and N64 had a large handful of GREAT games and for that alone it wasn't a failure in my eyes.

*high five*

 

[krypt0nian]

*high five*

Wanna make out?

 

[Beezy]

Well, yeah. I've yet to see someone who disowned Nintendo because of the SNES.

I guess that's true.

 

[Oblivion]

I don't get the N65 thing nor the 3rd console bit.. this is nintendo's 5th. With that being said, people will always critisize nintendo.

I think he meant this could be the 3rd failure console (with N64 and GC) if it's not done right or whatever.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I would like to add that everyone who posted "not next gen" in the xbox 360 topics and is a fan of Nintendo and the Revolution has some comeuppance shortly.

And don't be postng that the controller makes it "next gen" as I will laugh and throw elderberries at you.

Thank you.

....oh and N64 had a large handful of GREAT games and for that alone it wasn't a failure in my eyes.

What I've seen is largely variable. Its not the leap the hyperbole would have us believe. Thats just my opinion, and forgive me if I sincerely doubt anyone in the universe will receive commuppance for sharing it.

Gears of War looks fucking incredible in stills, but in gameplay it looks dull to me. I don't like where the character(s) get positioned or how it moves. The footage I'm thinking of here is from the MS keynote at TGS. Technically impressive but not so much that I can honestly thing to myself - "I'm impressed. Impressed enough to spend ~£300". I've seen Quake 4 before. It took seeing PD0 in vids to eventually be impressed. Or how about Kameo? Maybe its cos I've seen iterations of Gamecube-in-development versions, or because I expect instancing of such stylised enemies to be relatively simple. FIFA looks like a cheap upgrade. I think Frame City Killer looks less than what I'd expected after the HD-era diatribe too. The Dead or Alive games looked so good on Xbox, that its hard to be overly impressed by the DoA4 trailers. For me personally I mean.

But as I say - Gears of War? Visually incredible in moments. Ghost Recon 3 looks gorgeous too. PGR3 is beautiful. Although I'm not interested in it yet as a game, I thought Ninety Nine Nights looked quite nice too. PGR... I mean, thats definately the one 360 game thats impressed me. 40,000 polygons outside a car, 40,000 inside. Hiring seperate shader coders to help them create more realistic effects than they would have got using plain texture work. The environments are chock full of detail... its like something I'd almost rather watch than play. And it runs like a fucking dream.

The quality is anything but consistent imo.
And I heared 'target-render' when it comes to 360 and PS3 showreels so much too. Did we ever have that kind of shit before in any other generation? Its disappointing.

You'd be wrong to think I'm not gonna buy all three next gen systems btw. 360 and Rev are dead certs for me.

 

[fresquito]

I think the Rev will be a hard sell. Everyone is saying; wait for teh games! But I strongly suspect that when we actually see the games, in video or screens, we will be disappointed. (well most. Gahigiddy will orgasm)

Then it will shift to "it's all about the play" and the controller side of things.

Because of this I'm not really expecting any screens unless they coincide with lots of hands on play to go along with it.

I don´t think, even if the Rev is underpowered, we will se much of a difference with Xbox360 or PS3 in the first two years. Just look at most Xbox360 games, Flagship titles from Revolution will look great, I´m pretty sure.

 

[LordPhlegm]

yeah, because Zoonami has a history of hits

So, is Zoonami ever gonna come out with anything?

 

[radioheadrule83]

So, is Zoonami ever gonna come out with anything?

I heard they're signing on as Phantom exclusive.

Seriously though, I fancy trying Funkydilla. And wheres this detective game thing?

 

[Ganondorf>Link]

From day one, I remember the gradual deconstruction of the Gamecube.

1. Rogue Leader series: Shallow and all graphics?
2. Metroid Prime: "What's with these controls?"
3. Mario Kart Double Dash: Too slow?
4. New Zelda: OMG looks amazing, then "Looks okay.", then "Looks like crap.", then "Delayed until 2006."
5. Gamecube: No Max Payne: Couldn't handle the AI?
6. Tales of Symphonia ported to PS2
7. Harvest Moon ported to PS2
8. Insult to injury, Super Monkey Ball ported to Xbox and PS2

I disagree with all of those.

1. Rogue Leader was a great game and one of GC's best launch titles. It got rave reviews and was a showcase for the system's awesome graphics. Sure Rebel Strike sucked, but RL did not.

2. Very few people bitched about Prime's controls, and thats because they expected an FPS, which it was not. It is the highest rated game of this generation and a million seller.

3. People only said Double Dash was too slow at E3, once the game was finished that was fixed and it was much faster.

4. Nobody in their right mind would say Zelda looks like crap, or it looks okay. It's one of the best looking games of the current generation, and it looks amazing in motion.

5. I never even heard of the Max Payne quote, but I don't see how thats possible since they are pretty dumb in the game and they made it for PS2.

6.ToS wasn't a big deal since it was only a Japan port.

7. I never even heard about HM being ported to the PS2.

8. SMB completely bombed on the other systems.

 

[Speevy]

I disagree with all of those.

1. Rogue Leader was a great game and one of GC's best launch titles. It got rave reviews and was a showcase for the system's awesome graphics. Sure Rebel Strike sucked, but RL did not.

2. Very few people bitched about Prime's controls, and thats because they expected an FPS, which it was not. It is the highest rated game of this generation and a million seller.

3. People only said Double Dash was too slow at E3, once the game was finished that was fixed and it was much faster.

4. Nobody in their right mind would say Zelda looks like crap, or it looks okay. It's one of the best looking games of the current generation, and it looks amazing in motion.

5. I never even heard of the Max Payne quote, but I don't see how thats possible since they are pretty dumb in the game and they made it for PS2.

6.ToS wasn't a big deal since it was only a Japan port.

7. I never even heard about HM being ported to the PS2.

8. SMB completely bombed on the other systems.

It's not a matter of disagreement. These arguments were put forth against the Gamecube, and all of them had some little or large impact on the perception of the Gamecube. I never said every little thing I listed destroyed the Cube by itself.

But I'll go through each one of these since you think I'm being disingenuous.

1. Rogue Leader was a great game and one of GC's best launch titles. It got rave reviews and was a showcase for the system's awesome graphics. Sure Rebel Strike sucked, but RL did not.

By the gaming community at large and ESPECIALLY Star Wars game fans (ever heard of TIE Fighter), the Rogue Leader series is considered to be arcadey crap.

2. Very few people bitched about Prime's controls, and thats because they expected an FPS, which it was not. It is the highest rated game of this generation and a million seller.

Plenty of people complained about the controls. As a matter of fact, because the game is so fantastically produced, people glossed over the controls as "natural", as though dual-analog isn't the standard or something (it is).

3. People only said Double Dash was too slow at E3, once the game was finished that was fixed and it was much faster.

Once something is said, it damages a game. I can't argue with Double Dash's sales. But I have played the game, and I think it sucks. Worst Nintendo game ever.

4. Nobody in their right mind would say Zelda looks like crap, or it looks okay. It's one of the best looking games of the current generation, and it looks amazing in motion.

Technically, it looks no better than a second generation PS2 game.

5. I never even heard of the Max Payne quote, but I don't see how thats possible since they are pretty dumb in the game and they made it for PS2.

Yeah, well, it just shouldn't have been made for the PS2. People who played it for the PS2 probably have a bad impression of the title. The developer of the game (Remedy) said this. I don't know if they were making excuses or what, but the quote said that the Cube's hardware couldn't store the AI. And Max Payne 1 and 2 AI is great. What are you smoking?

6.ToS wasn't a big deal since it was only a Japan port.

Wow, good one. Way to counter the point.

7. I never even heard about HM being ported to the PS2.

It is.

8. SMB completely bombed on the other systems

Even worse. The exclusive that kicked off the Cube being passed over by the general public. Perception is key, and that was a pretty telling statement of where the Cube has gone.

 

[drohne]

i think the existence of a revolution prime demo with freelook is an admission that prime's control scheme sucked.

 

[koam]

By the gaming community at large and ESPECIALLY Star Wars game fans (ever heard of TIE Fighter), the Rogue Leader series is considered to be arcadey crap.

That's the first I've ever heard of that. After KOTOR, RS was the best star wars game on console this gen. Rogue leader was "meh" single player but the multiplayer campains were fantastic.

Plenty of people complained about the controls. As a matter of fact, because the game is so fantastically produced, people glossed over the controls as "natural", as though dual-analog isn't the standard or something (it is).

The controls were really good. The hate came from Sony and Microsoft trolls. There wasn't a single review that I saw from a reputable site that complained about the controls.

Once something is said, it damages a game. I can't argue with Double Dash's sales. But I have played the game, and I think it sucks. Worst Nintendo game ever.

I don't know where you got that "speed" issue from but I agree double dash sucked hard. It's the worst Mario Kart game.

Technically, it looks no better than a second generation PS2 game.

WHAT? Zelda is easily one of the top 10 best looking games this gen. In its genre (action/adventure) it looks better than anything else, including SotC. In fact, show me one 2nd Gen PS2 title that looks better than Zelda.

Yeah, well, it just shouldn't have been made for the PS2. People who played it for the PS2 probably have a bad impression of the title. The developer of the game (Remedy) said this. I don't know if they were making excuses or what, but the quote said that the Cube's hardware couldn't store the AI. And Max Payne 1 and 2 AI is great. What are you smoking?

Does anyone in their right mind actually believe that Max Payne is not possible on the Cube? Come on now, AI is handle by the CPU and the Cube's CPU is a lot faster than the PS2's.

 

[Speevy]

Then I may be getting my details messed up. Might have been the physics. If I'm recalling correctly, it's the RAM which was the problem..

 

[Speevy]

WHAT? Zelda is easily one of the top 10 best looking games this gen. In its genre (action/adventure) it looks better than anything else, including SotC. In fact, show me one 2nd Gen PS2 title that looks better than Zelda.

Ninja Gaiden and RE4 each stomp Zelda in the action/adventure department.

Metal Gear Solid 2 technically outclasses it, to give an example of an early PS2 title.

That was easier than I thought.

 

[Speevy]

The controls were really good. The hate came from Sony and Microsoft trolls. There wasn't a single review that I saw from a reputable site that complained about the controls.

Hopping around and constantly readjusting your view without the aid of free look is not progressive gameplay design.

It's just stupid. The only thing that makes it tolerable is the narrow hallways of Metroid Prime, and even that's a stretch.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I don't think Nintendo will EVER be off the hook. There's too many extreme views on both sides of the camp (i.e. some will defend Nintendo to the death, ready to join Miyamoto's army, while others will automatically scoff and laugh at anything Nintendo tries to do) that the criticism will always be there.

 

[yoopoo]

Then I may be getting my details messed up. Might have been the physics. If I'm recalling correctly, it's the RAM which was the problem..

There was no problem, one of the game's programmers admitted on evilavatar that they didn't even try to run the game on GC.

 

[Oblivion]

Ninja Gaiden and RE4 each stomp Zelda in the action/adventure department.

Metal Gear Solid 2 technically outclasses it, to give an example of an early PS2 title.

That was easier than I thought.

I don't know. Considering that Zelda will be a 60-70 hour game, I think the way it looks ata the moment is uncanny by itself.

 

[Calidor]

off the hook this gen? probably
next gen? not at all

 

[Speevy]

I don't know. Considering that Zelda will be a 60-70 hour game, I think the way it looks ata the moment is uncanny by itself.

Length of a game has nothing to do with visuals. Halo (the first one) looks better than Zelda, covers more area than TP seems to cover in the largest areas, but is shorter, and was released in 2001.

 

[yoopoo]

Hopping around and constantly readjusting your view without the aid of free look is not progressive gameplay design.

It's just stupid. The only thing that makes it tolerable is the narrow hallways of Metroid Prime, and even that's a stretch.

I remember you going nuts and defending Metroid Prime on TXB like it was your precious heh.

 

[Speevy]

I remember you going nuts and defending Metroid Prime on TXB like it was your precious heh.

Who said I wouldn't defend it today?

I recommend it in fact. Just keep in mind that a bad decision was made with regard to its controls/camera. If you can get past that, you'll have a great time, as many did. But to defend the controls like they should be replicated in future games is retarded.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I would like to add that everyone who posted "not next gen" in the xbox 360 topics and is a fan of Nintendo and the Revolution has some comeuppance shortly.

And don't be postng that the controller makes it "next gen" as I will laugh and throw elderberries at you.

Thank you.

....oh and N64 had a large handful of GREAT games and for that alone it wasn't a failure in my eyes.

there is a difference. nintendo hasnt been making a big deal about graphics. nintendo also didnt make graphical prowess a main selling point of the GC.. so, its not really that hypocritical. ..

also, personally.. HD is meaningless to me.. its still a selling point.. and will be used in fanboy rants for some time to come.. but if all three consoles look comparative at 480p and lower res.. it wont matter for the the majority of the people out there.

 

[capslock]

i think the existence of a revolution prime demo with freelook is an admission that prime's control scheme sucked.

No offense, but that's pretty much the stupidest thing I have read in a week, and I'm a GAF regular.

The reason a MP demo for the revolution controller exists is because it's Nintendo's most readily identifiable first person shooter franchise.

 

[yoopoo]

Who said I wouldn't defend it today?

I recommend it in fact. Just keep in mind that a bad decision was made with regard to its controls/camera. If you can get past that, you'll have a great time, as many did. But to defend the controls like they should be replicated in future games is retarded.

The controls and camera were pretty much perfect, it was like playing a Zelda game in first person view.

Anyone who thinks MP would be a better game if it had Halo like controls is a complete retard. Look it up.

 

[Oblivion]

Length of a game has nothing to do with visuals. Halo (the first one) looks better than Zelda, covers more area than TP seems to cover in the largest areas, but is shorter, and was released in 2001.

Bluh? I would assume that if you add additional content like levels and shit, you wouldn't be able focus as much on graphics as you would for a shorter game.

 

[Speevy]

Bluh? I would assume that if you add additional content like levels and shit, you wouldn't be able focus as much on graphics as you would for a shorter game.

Once you get into games like Oblivion, I suppose.

But Ninja Gaiden is a 40-60 hour game that looks fantastic, and Prince of Persia is a 7 hour game that looks less fantastic. Good developers can make good looking games regardless of length. It's all about dedication. Team Kojima makes games like this.

 

[westical]

The level makers don't design the graphics.

 

[Speevy]

The controls and camera were pretty much perfect, it was like playing a Zelda game in first person view.

Anyone who thinks MP would be a better game if it had Halo like controls is a complete retard. Look it up.

If you say so man. Morrowind is essentially a 3rd person RPG that works better in the first person (simply because Bethesda botched the movement in 3rd person). The point is that Morrowind has dual analog, and if I had to play it with Metroid's controls, I wouldn't have 100+ hours into the game.

And what about Zelda? If I had to explore the vast Zelda world with Metroid's controls, I doubt I'd enjoy it either. Some games were made for third person.

 

[krypt0nian]

there is a difference. nintendo hasnt been making a big deal about graphics. nintendo also didnt make graphical prowess a main selling point of the GC.. so, its not really that hypocritical. ..

also, personally.. HD is meaningless to me.. its still a selling point.. and will be used in fanboy rants for some time to come.. but if all three consoles look comparative at 480p and lower res.. it wont matter for the the majority of the people out there.

Next gen is next gen. If we don't see the HUGE bump some of the Nintendo posters who love to troll 360 topics expect in Rev games then its comeuppance time.

You can't explain this away by blaming PR expectations. Next gen is next gen 16:9 or 4:3.

I mean it - elderberries will be thrown.

 

[LordPhlegm]

From what I can tell, Metroid Prime required the controls that it used. Changing weapons had to be done on the spot. And when is that Funky game from Zoonami coming out? PSP, right?

 

[Speevy]

The level makers don't design the graphics.

I was just choosing another arbitrary measure of size, like game length.

 

[Oblivion]

Once you get into games like Oblivion, I suppose.

But Ninja Gaiden is a 40-60 hour game that looks fantastic, and Prince of Persia is a 7 hour game that looks less fantastic. Good developers can make good looking games regardless of length. It's all about dedication. Team Kojima makes games like this.

At first I thought you were talking about me. :lol

I didn't know Ninja Gaiden was that long. I still feel there's something wrong with this, but whatever, I guess.

 

[Speevy]

From what I can tell, Metroid Prime required the controls that it used. Changing weapons had to be done on the spot. And when is that Funky game from Zoonami coming out? PSP, right?

Quick weapon changes is done in many games. I thoroughly enjoyed the Gamecube version of Metal Arms: A Glitch in the System, for instance.

 

[yoopoo]

If you say so man. Morrowind is essentially a 3rd person RPG that works better in the first person (simply because Bethesda botched the movement in 3rd person). The point is that Morrowind has dual analog, and if I had to play it with Metroid's controls, I wouldn't have 100+ hours into the game.

Hold the GC controller, put your thumbs on both sticks...how would you be able to dash and change weapons?

I do say so and I'm right. Look it up.

 

[Speevy]

I checked my gut, and it says you're wrong.

 

[yoopoo]

Quick weapon changes is done in many games. I thoroughly enjoyed the Gamecube version of Metal Arms: A Glitch in the System, for instance.

Except the chaning if weapons in Metal Arms was done via a menu system.

 

[Speevy]

Metroid Prime is not Halo. The pace is such that a leisurely weapon change would have been just fine.

 

[Ganondorf>Link]

If you say so man. Morrowind is essentially a 3rd person RPG that works better in the first person (simply because Bethesda botched the movement in 3rd person). The point is that Morrowind has dual analog, and if I had to play it with Metroid's controls, I wouldn't have 100+ hours into the game.

What? Morrowind's combat would actually be enjoyable if it had the lock-on from Prime. I mean shit, I love the options that Morrowind gives, but that is one of the worst combat systems in a game I've ever played. Its completely boring and frustrating, and it doesn't even look exciting. What the fuck were they thinking?

EDIT: And there is no way in hell Ninja Gaiden is a 40-60 hour game. I played the game on fucking Hard mode when I first played and I beat it in 21 hours. Its a damn good game and it sure as hell looks good, but it is nowhere the size and scope of Zelda.

 

[drohne]

No offense, but that's pretty much the stupidest thing I have read in a week, and I'm a GAF regular.

The reason a MP demo for the revolution controller exists is because it's Nintendo's most readily identifiable first person shooter franchise.

i'm too depressed that you can now accurately call metroid a "first person shooter franchise" to defend my post. prime sucks.

 

[Culex]

Metroid Prime is not Halo. The pace is such that a leisurely weapon change would have been just fine.

And for that very same reason, the beams were easily mapped to the C-Stick.

 

[Speevy]

What? Morrowind's combat would actually be enjoyable if it had the lock-on from Prime. I mean shit, I love the options that Morrowind gives, but that is one of the worst combat systems in a game I've ever played. Its completely boring and frustrating, and it doesn't even look exciting. What the fuck were they thinking?

How did we get to talking about combat? Retro can have Samus holding a first person fairy wand for all I care. Just fix the controls. Cute attempt though.

 

[yoopoo]

Metroid Prime is not Halo. The pace is such that a leisurely weapon change would have been just fine.

Yet you still want Halo controls in Metroid Prime. So you're saying a menu based weapon system should've been in Metroid Prime? Phazon Mines requires quick weapon changes.

Btw, how would you be able to dash?