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[VictimOfGrief]

So... it's another Nintendo thread... about the next-gen race.... and the revolution..... As we're getting closer to the Xbox 360 launch, the more interested I am slowly becoming in Nintendo's system because..... of one reason...... "Mystery".

Not trying to bash the fanboys on either camp as this gen I've owned every system (Gamecube, PS2 and now just the Xbox) but.... here's the thing.... Nintendo has never.... (IMO) NEVER lost site of what makes games fun..... The experience.

I think what Nintendo will offer to gamers in the next generation is the lost love... or possibly the captivation of a new generation.

Think of it.... as the NES for the 6-12 year olds of the 21st century. I for one think Nintendo is NOT off the hook, but let's just say they'll revolutionize.... the hook.

 

[drohne]

and would anyone actually miss switching beams to kill color-coded pirates? that was a (lame) design possibility suggested by the controls, not a reason for the controls to be the way they were. freelook would be as beneficial to prime as to halo -- not being able to look around while you walk sucks, and going from any other first person game to prime is like being put in a neck brace.

 

[Speevy]

EDIT: And there is no way in hell Ninja Gaiden is a 40-60 hour game. I played the game on fucking Hard mode when I first played and I beat it in 21 hours. Its a damn good game and it sure as hell looks good, but it is nowhere the size and scope of Zelda.

Well congratulations. I beat it in about 45. And how the heck do you know about the size and scope of Zelda, aside from cryptic and often misleading interviews? Ninja Gaiden is a big game, and the world is interconnected.

Also, you're once again merging my comments into something that resembles a winning argument for you. I used Ninja Gaiden as an example of a long game, not a title with "scope". Try again, Captain Logic.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Metroid Prime is not Halo. The pace is such that a leisurely weapon change would have been just fine.

So you would have a different weapon change system and give it dual analog? Wouldn't that make it more like Halo, which it is apparently not? If the game is so leisurely, that is.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Next gen is next gen. If we don't see the HUGE bump some of the Nintendo posters who love to troll 360 topics expect in Rev games then its comeuppance time.

You can't explain this away by blaming PR expectations. Next gen is next gen 16:9 or 4:3.

I mean it - elderberries will be thrown.

pr? its all about expectations. personal expectations.. the xbox was the most powerful system this gen. and it was a huge selling point. not just for pr, but for individuals. it had the best multiplatform games out there (for the most part).. people expected the same thing next gen, but it looks like it might not be the case.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

I don't think comparing Metroid to Halo is really fair. Two different gameplay types even though the FPS part is the same.

 

[Speevy]

So you would have a different weapon change system and give it dual analog? Wouldn't that make it more like Halo, which it is apparently not? If the game is so leisurely, that is.

I don't care what they do with the weapon change. Heck, make it a complete adventure game with no combat whatsoever. Just give me a free look while moving.

 

[Speevy]

Btw, why did we start attributing these arguments to me? I'm just thinking of criticisms that have been leveled against the Cube and Nintendo this generation.

 

[yoopoo]

I don't care what they do with the weapon change. Heck, make it a complete adventure game with no combat whatsoever. Just give me a free look while moving.

Ahh so you want to change the actual content of the game so it would fit the control scheme :lol

You still haven't answered, Speevy...with dual analog how can you preform the dash move? Which is extremely part of the game.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Btw, why did we start attributing these arguments to me? I'm just thinking of criticisms that have been leveled against the Cube and Nintendo this generation.

No that's fine, I think focusing on what games could be up and coming games on the Rev.

 

[Culex]

Btw, why did we start attributing these arguments to me? I'm just thinking of criticisms that have been leveled against the Cube and Nintendo this generation.

You did start this thread, adding in your own personal comments, so yes.

Your point?

 

[drohne]

to get back to the topic, i think nintendo have set themselves up for a massive shellacking if the first revolution games aren't obviously new and great. calling the console "revolution," talking up its innovations, showing the controller with no games and letting fanboy imaginations run riot...it all creates expectations that will be difficult to immediately fulfill. the revolution's first truly public showing should be interesting.

 

[Speevy]

You did start this thread, adding in your own personal comments, so yes.

Your point?

These are just things I've read during the past 4 years.

Their credibility or lack thereof is part of the point. That doesn't matter. Each of these made such an impression on me that I was able to recall them in a matter of seconds, but I'm not prepared to defend each one.

And frankly, if you think I'm someone who wanted to tear down the Cube, you're mistaken. The machine was my first console this gen.

Let's get back to the topic of next generation, because I suck at debating anyway.

EDIT: Thanks drohne.

 

[gamergirly]

From day one, I remember the gradual deconstruction of the Gamecube.

-Gamecube kiosks: N65?
-Super Mario Sunshine and its marketing, then the final release disappointments
-The Legend of Zelda: Cel-shaded debacle and delay
-Sale of Rare
-Left Field leaves
-Starfox Adventures/Rare sucked anyway
-Rogue Leader series: Shallow and all graphics?
-Metroid Prime: "What's with these controls?"
-Capcom 5: No longer exclusive
-Mario Kart Double Dash: Too slow?
-Silicon Knights: No longer Nintendo exclusive
-Factor 5: No longer making Nintendo games
-Eidos: dropped support
-Not one release in April 2005?
-Price drop: Can it get any lower? Sir, would you like a $30 used Gamecube?
-Sega Sports: dropped support
-Connectiivity: What is Nintendo doing? Pacman VS?
-New Zelda: OMG looks amazing, then "Looks okay.", then "Looks like crap.", then "Delayed until 2006."
-Gamecube: No Max Payne: Couldn't handle the AI?
-Resident Evil 4 ported to PS2
-Tales of Symphonia ported to PS2
-Harvest Moon ported to PS2
-Insult to injury, Super Monkey Ball ported to Xbox and PS2


I could go on and on. These are just steps in the endless onslaught of things that brought down the Gamecube in the mind of your average forumer, and consequently, the average gamer.

But it seems that the avalanche of bad news has shifted its trajectory toward MS. So do we really care anymore how badly Nintendo screws up as long as the company stays in business? I don't, personally. If you're buying Nintendo's third console, you're giving the company a third chance. And they say that the third time's a charm, afterall, so I think reasonable expectations are in order.

This time, I see a generally negative and pessimistic attitude toward the MS console brand developing, while it seems as though Nintendo's image has been cleansed. No developers to lose. Sales can't get any lower. High-end technical graphics aren't the main focus.

Do you think Nintendo will be criticized as harshly next generation as the company was during this one? Why or why not?

As long as we are around, yes. Why? Bc you secretly love Nintendo. Why not? Because it's fun to play with Nintendo games AND fans. Thread over.

Now, let's all watch the minimovie by VOG:

 

[LordPhlegm]

to get back to the topic, i think nintendo have set themselves up for a massive shellacking if the first revolution games aren't obviously new and great. calling the console "revolution," talking up its innovations, showing the controller with no games and letting fanboy imaginations run riot...it all creates expectations that will be difficult to immediately fulfill. the revolution's first truly public showing should be interesting.

It better be, or a bunch of rabid Nintendo fans won't know what to do.

 

[koam]

Ninja Gaiden and RE4 each stomp Zelda in the action/adventure department.

Metal Gear Solid 2 technically outclasses it, to give an example of an early PS2 title.

That was easier than I thought.

Neither Ninja Gaiden nor RE4 are second generation PS2 games. RE4 is 4th generation while Ninja Gaiden is not even a PS2 title. Also, those are two of the best looking games out there on any console. I did say Zelda was in the top 10.

As for MGS2, the game is nice, very beautiful but I wouldn't put it above Zelda. I would however put MGS3 above zelda. Maybe you haven't played Zelda, I don't know, but it's not an ugly title at all. The screenshots don't do it any justice, the game looks fantastic.

 

[Error]

-Gamecube: No Max Payne: Couldn't handle the AI?

what?

 

[Speevy]

Back on topic.

 

[Speevy]

what?

I'm just going to edit that part out, as it was a misunderstanding on my part, and was cleared up if you read the thread. I did not make it up, however.

 

[Particle Physicist]

what?

it was the devs shitty excuse for not porting the game.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

whats with people still claiming MGS2 looked great? Sure it looked good, but no where near spectacular especially by todays standards now that we are approaching the end of this gen.

 

[Amir0x]

whats with people still claiming MGS2 looked great? Sure it looked good, but no where near spectacular especially by todays standards now that we are approaching the end of this gen.

Because MGS2 looked great?

 

[drohne]

and still looks great. i was playing mgs2 substance the other day, and that rain effect has yet to be topped. 60fps too.

 

[bumpkin]

Nintendo will be criticized to no end if their paradigm shift falls flat. If the controller doesn't offer the "revolution" that Nintendo has promised, you will never hear the end of it.

QFT.

 

[Farmboy]

Metroid Prime's sales dropped like a stone after the holiday season,

Prime is the best-selling Metroid game ever except for the NES original (I'm not sure if the later GBA titles outsold it, but still). It also garnered many GOTY awards. The Cube's such an easy target -- why stoop to ragging on one of its most successful and widely beloved games? You are of course entitled to your opinion, but please don't imply as if there is some sort of online consensus that Metroid Prime 'failed'.

Out of curiosity: this list of points you make in your original post, are they all personal criticisms (and thus a matter of opinion) or, as I took it, a list of criticisms that have been leveled at the Cube (on internetforums no less!) at some time or other? If the latter is the case, well... that's just the nature of forums like these. One man's GOTY candidate (RE4, SOTC) is another man's borefest... and both sides will be vocal about it. At any rate, the bottom of the barrel is thoroughly scraped (another highlight: "Rogue Leader series: Shallow and all graphics?" :lol).

EDIT: I now see that question has been asked and answered, sorry. Comments still apply.

 

[AniHawk]

If people thought the DS was bad (the image is only getting better now), and if the Gamecube was bad... you might wanna prepare yourself for next gen. It's going to be a combo of the DS's first year and the Gamecube's lifespan of:

-Gimmicky games
-No/low western support
-Bad graphics
-sloppy ports

And the occasional OMGWTF GREAT GAME like Fire Emblem, Zelda, or Castlevania (though probably no actual Castlevania itself, just using it as an example, you see).

But on the plus side, there's all those old games that don't work on your old systems that you can play again.

And the system is sexy as hell.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ahh so you want to change the actual content of the game so it would fit the control scheme :lol

You still haven't answered, Speevy...with dual analog how can you preform the dash move? Which is extremely part of the game.

Maybe the same way you will be doing it with the Nunchaku + Remote Control on Metroid Prime 3 , that is not how the games on GCN did it.

Oh wait, we are supposed to hate free-look in Metroid Prime on GCN, but love it when we mention Metroid Prime on Revolution .

 

[Xellotah]

Nintendo is not of the hook and will never be.

The negativity that is directed at MS will also be directed at Nintendo when Nintendo releases more information... The only company that will not have the hook will probably be Sony.

Edit:
In fact I can't believe people will think otherwise... I mean look at the current make up of people at GAF. We all have a good idea on which people are likely to attack Nintendo regardless and vice versa.

 

[argon]

We haven't seen any games, so Nintendo is not off the hook quite yet. Mario must deliver!

However, they have made some very wise decisions so far:

- very sleek looking console, doesn't look "kiddy"
- backwards compatibility with GC
- virtual console features; downloadable NES/SNES/N64 games
- innovative controller (hopefully)
- free wi-fi, out of the box
- 512mb flash built-in, no need for memory cards
- larger capacity disc than GC

Of course they have made some dumb decisions as well:

- no wired ethernet port
- no HD support
- dongle sold online-only
- graphics capability might be visibly inferior to X360/PS3

But at this point I think there's a characteristically un-Nintendo ratio of good decisions to bad decisions =) I hope they keep it up.

 

[Farmboy]

Nintendo is not of the hook and will never be.

The negativity that is directed at MS will also be directed at Nintendo when Nintendo releases more information... The only company that will not have the hook will probably be Sony.

Edit:
In fact I can't believe people will think otherwise... I mean look at the current make up of people at GAF. We all have a good idea on which people are likely to attack Nintendo regardless and vice versa.

You're quite right... except that Sony, too, is 'on the hook', of course. Attacks on their "WTF? No in-game footage!1!!" E3 presentations were pretty vehement, if memory serves. No company is safe. No product is safe. Prepare!

 

[ziran]

From day one, I remember the gradual deconstruction of the Gamecube.

-Gamecube kiosks: N65?
-Super Mario Sunshine and its marketing, then the final release disappointments
-The Legend of Zelda: Cel-shaded debacle and delay
-Sale of Rare
-Left Field leaves
-Starfox Adventures/Rare sucked anyway
-Rogue Leader series: Shallow and all graphics?
-Metroid Prime: "What's with these controls?"
-Capcom 5: No longer exclusive
-Mario Kart Double Dash: Too slow?
-Silicon Knights: No longer Nintendo exclusive
-Factor 5: No longer making Nintendo games
-Eidos: dropped support
-Not one release in April 2005?
-Price drop: Can it get any lower? Sir, would you like a $30 used Gamecube?
-Sega Sports: dropped support
-Connectiivity: What is Nintendo doing? Pacman VS?
-New Zelda: OMG looks amazing, then "Looks okay.", then "Looks like crap.", then "Delayed until 2006."
-Resident Evil 4 ported to PS2
-Tales of Symphonia ported to PS2
-Harvest Moon ported to PS2
-Insult to injury, Super Monkey Ball ported to Xbox and PS2


I could go on and on. These are just steps in the endless onslaught of things that brought down the Gamecube in the mind of your average forumer, and consequently, the average gamer.

But it seems that the avalanche of bad news has shifted its trajectory toward MS. So do we really care anymore how badly Nintendo screws up as long as the company stays in business? I don't, personally. If you're buying Nintendo's third console, you're giving the company a third chance. And they say that the third time's a charm, afterall, so I think reasonable expectations are in order.

This time, I see a generally negative and pessimistic attitude toward the MS console brand developing, while it seems as though Nintendo's image has been cleansed. No developers to lose. Sales can't get any lower. High-end technical graphics aren't the main focus.

Do you think Nintendo will be criticized as harshly next generation as the company was during this one? Why or why not?

i think nintendo is in an interesting position. i believe many people aren't even considering the revolution when they talk about next gen, so from that point of view, nintendo really has nothing to lose. this allows their strategy to be whatever they want it to, they don't necessarily have to conform in anyway to current gaming standards.

also the ds has given them proof that some people want something different, and these people will readily shell out money for nintendogs, brain training and other innovative software.

the gamecube has failed imo, and done very little positive for nintendo but much negative. however, behind the scenes the list of growth and setting into motion things that will grow nintendo's business is significant, including:

- iwata becoming president
- expanding and re-organising of internal development teams
- buying retro studios
- creating ead tokyo
- creating brownie brown (with ex square staff)
- creating genius sonority (with ex heartbeat staff)
- nurturing and promoting more game directors
- miyamoto's return to (total) game development
- the move away from short development, many titles: luigi's mansion, pikmin, mario sunshine, wind waker, etc, back to taking time to ensure a game is released when it's ready: pikmin 2, paper mario 2, fire emblem gc, twilight princess, etc.
- creating the ds
- reducing third party development fees (making them competitive)
- investment in matrix semiconductors to lower cartridge costs
- investment in revolution (gyration, ati, mosys, etc)
- delivering a good online plan
- creating new kinds of software to help ds sell
- forming good relations with third parties creating strong support for ds
- collaborating with many third parties on projects instead of inefficient, lengthy second party agreements like those with rare, silicon knights etc.

i'm ready for something new and i think nintendo is ready to deliver it.

 

[psycho_snake]

No matter what Nintendo do, they will always be criticised for it.

 

[..pakbeka..]

this thread is a nothing more than elaborated trolling

 

[lyre]

No matter what Nintendo do, they will always be criticised for it.

They wouldn't be Nintendo if they weren't. It's their legacy.

 

[elostyle]

The best step they took with the DS:

- Move from a 3rd party oriented business model to a 2nd party oriented business model. Nintendo has the funds and is willing to fund developers become a gigantic publisher that has less risk in publishing than 3rd party publishers. For example see games like ouendan and mario basketball (not published by square enix despite being a huge publisher in their own right). Further indicated by Iwata during his TGS keynote speech ("show us your ideas"). Nintendo moves away from 3rd party publishers while embracing independent developers.