"Is religion a force for good?" US ="Yes" Canada = "No!"

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koam

Member
Code:
Country 	% who agree
Saudi Arabia 	92
Indonesia 	91
India 		69
United States 	65
Russia 		59
Italy 		50
Turkey 		43
Canada 		36
Australia 	32
Great Britain 	29
Japan 		29
France 		24
Belgium 	21
Sweden 		19

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/11/26/religion-good-evil-poll-hitchens-blair.html#ixzz16R9iIsTT

The world is deeply divided on the question of whether religion is a force for good, a survey by Ipsos Reid suggests.

The pollster found that 48 per cent of the more than 18,000 people it reached online in 23 countries agreed that "religion provides the common values and ethical foundations that diverse societies need to thrive in the 21st century."

A bare majority — 52 per cent — thought otherwise. They agreed with the sentiment that "religious beliefs promote intolerance, exacerbate ethnic divisions and impede social progress."

There was wide regional variation in the results. Respondents in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, where there are large Moslem populations, overwhelmingly said they believed religion was a force for good, while respondents in European countries tended to disagree with that.

About two-thirds of Americans polled thought religion was a force for good, but only 36 per cent of Canadians thought the same.

The survey was commissioned as a backdrop to a much-anticipated debate on religion Friday night in Toronto between former British prime minister Tony Blair and writer Christopher Hitchens.
Be it resolved

The two men will debate the question of whether religion is a force for good in the world.

Taking the "No" side is Hitchens, author of God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and author Christopher Hitchens meet ahead of their debate on religion in Toronto Friday. Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and author Christopher Hitchens meet ahead of their debate on religion in Toronto Friday. (Mark Blinch/Reuters)

The avowed atheist has written that organized religion is "violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children."

Hitchens, who is battling esophageal cancer, added that if "religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world."

Blair will argue the opposite side. He converted to Roman Catholicism after leaving 10 Downing Street in 2007.

Blair has spoken often about the role of faith in his life since leaving office and has formed the Tony Blair Faith Foundation, which promotes "respect and understanding" among the world's major religions.

He will argue an understanding of faith is necessary in a world of globalization and rapid social change.

"Religious faith has a major part to play in shaping the values which guide the modern world, and can and should be a force for progress," he said earlier.
Debate sold out

The moderator of the debate said it's not about the existence of God.

“We have asked Mr. Blair and Mr. Hitchens to wrestle with the more immediate question facing developed and developing nations: is religion a force for peace or conflict in the modern world?” said Rudyard Griffiths, co-organizer of the Munk Debates.

The debate, at Roy Thomson Hall, quickly sold out. A live video stream of the debate can be watched online for $4.99.

The Munk Debates are a series created through the Aurea Foundation, a Canadian charity established by businessman and philanthropist Peter Munk.
 

Dresden

Member
Large Professor said:
So what bad experiences have the Swedes had with religion?
Eh, the Thirty Years' War, maybe? That shit was pretty hardcore. Or maybe they're just sensible people.
 

Doytch

Member
High-five fellow Canadians! Actually, we could do better. Why is the UK ahead of us when they've had centuries of it in their country.

Too bad there's no Czech Rep. They'd probably be leading this shit again. :lol
 
Religious societies say yes, and secular societies say no. Here's another question asked a lot: is there too much violence in video games?

Gamestop customers say no, politicians say yes.

It's mind blowing, I know
 

GhaleonQ

Member
Branduil said:
"Religion" is not a group. It means about as much as asking "are human beings a force for good?"

I take it as read that it means organised religion -- as in, are religious institutions / ideologies and the related practices a force for good? We can infer that those who disagree either feel they don't provide a benefit or that it actually makes the world more backwards or dangerous, or a more myopically divided place.
 

NekoFever

Member
That debate is going to be amazing. Blair's already made a rod for his own back by admitting that his religious beliefs were behind his decision over Iraq.
 

Chuckie

Member
Branduil said:
"Religion" is not a group. It means about as much as asking "are human beings a force for good?"

This doesn't make sense at all.

Religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of life and the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency

Now the question is.... do you think those set of beliefs are a good thing or not.
 

GhaleonQ

Member
NekoFever said:
That debate is going to be amazing. Blair's already made a rod for his own back by admitting that his religious beliefs were behind his decision over Iraq.

And the thing is that theological conservatives (the people who'd usually have his back in this debate) don't like him because he's so theologically liberal (and pretty poorly informed). He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 

Branduil

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
I take it as read that it means organised religion -- as in, are religious institutions / ideologies and the related practices a force for good? We can infer that those who disagree either feel they don't provide a benefit or that it actually makes the world more backwards or dangerous, or a more myopically divided place.
But even that has almost no meaning. Catholics are not Muslims are not Buddhists are not Hindi. The question is impossible to answer in any way that provides insight. All it does is roughly correlate to the level of secular humanism in a country.

Tence said:
Now the question is.... do you think those set of beliefs are a good thing or not.
What set of beliefs? The range of ideas in religion is so diverse that there's no such thing as a common set of religious beliefs.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
dr-doom1.jpg



Define good my dear canadians
 

antonz

Member
GhaleonQ said:
And the thing is that theological conservatives (the people who'd usually have his back in this debate) don't like him because he's so theologically liberal (and pretty poorly informed). He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Not even that the leader of the religion he converted to was a very outspoken critic of the whole plan and was non stop speaking out against doing it.

He really is grasping at straws hoping someone has pity.
 

Zzoram

Member
Blackface said:
Hitchens and Tony Blair are actually going to be debating that topic tonight in Toronto. It's sold out.

That was the reason this poll was done, and it's in the article. The sold out part too.

I hope someone records it.
 

GhaleonQ

Member
antonz said:
Not even that the leader of the religion he converted to was a very outspoken critic of the whole plan and was non stop speaking out against doing it.

He really is grasping at straws hoping someone has pity.

I want Hitchens to ask him if he had sex before marriage.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
"religion provides the common values and ethical foundations that diverse societies need to thrive in the 21st century."

"religious beliefs promote intolerance, exacerbate ethnic divisions and impede social progress."

Given the two statements in the article, I don't really think it's sensible to pick statement one over statement two.

There is no NEED of religion for a society to thrive and religious beliefs DO promote intolerance etc.
 

ronito

Member
this thought of "religion brings good/bad" needs to stop.

It does neither.

It's sorta like asking is the internet good or bad? It's all in how you use it, it's perfectly capable of being both or neither.
 

Empty

Member
don't care for religion debates at all, came in here just to see the data, but i may try and catch the hitchens vs blair debate if it's put online afterward for free as hitchens is a powerful debater and i loath blair, so seeing him flounder against hitchens will be delicious.
 

GhaleonQ

Member
NekoFever said:
He wasn't a Catholic until 2007. At least not officially.

Luckily, "sex for marriage" is a broadly Christian precept. Unluckily, it turns out that he was only nominally Christian until college, so there's no chance to make him squirm a bit since he has an out. There are specifically Christian things Hitchens could ask (i.e., does he believe that he's bound, 1 flesh, to the 1st woman/girl with whom he slept?), but that's no fun.

I'm very religious myself, and the lack of humility the man has really irks me. The broad hatred in the U.K. was too much, but I hate the way he's tried to recast himself as a moderate bridge between the religious and ir-. It's facile.

Deku said:
It explores the place of religion (of all denominations) in the US.

Eh. "Religion and politics." It's very bad on everything else.
 

ianp622

Member
Branduil said:
What set of beliefs? The range of ideas in religion is so diverse that there's no such thing as a common set of religious beliefs.
Here are some common traits (excluding Buddhism in some cases):

1. Religious people tend to trust other religious people more than atheists.
2. Religious people claim to look to holy texts for morals (although this is laughably inaccurate).
3. Religious people tend to believe in an afterlife.
4. Religious people often only apply rational thinking to non-religious aspects of their life.
5. Religious people believe their beliefs should be "respected".

So there are common traits in religious beliefs, especially considering most stem from the same human self-centered notion of self-importance, same fear of death, and same insecurity of being alone. And because of this common source of religion, they tend to act in similar ways, even if the details of the execution are different.
 

Branduil

Member
ianp622 said:
most stem from the same human self-centered notion of self-importance, same fear of death, and same insecurity of being alone. And because of this common source of religion, they tend to act in similar ways, even if the details of the execution are different.
Those are common traits of people, not just those with explicit religious beliefs.
 

GhaleonQ

Member
Branduil said:
Those are common traits of people, not just those with explicit religious beliefs.

He's just pulling examples from his personal life. Soren Kierkegaard and a Japanese or Colombian syncretist are obviously not Christian for the same reason. If we broaden the scope to all religions, the comparison becomes self-apparently silly.
 

Branduil

Member
GhaleonQ said:
He's just pulling examples from his personal life. Soren Kierkegaard and a Japanese or Colombian syncretist are obviously not Christian for the same reason. If we broaden the scope to all religions, the comparison becomes self-apparently silly.
Groupings tend to become silly when the possible differences within it are as wide as the ones outside of it. There are so many more interesting questions the survey could have asked. Even just asking why people think "religion" is a force for good or evil would have provided something a million times more interesting.
 

antonz

Member
rpmurphy said:
Americans differ from other Western nations on their view of Christianity, what a shocker.

Wouldnt lump it all that clean cut. Europe has quite the issue with Islam in most places
 
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