51% of Canadians believe religion does more harm than good (up 7% from 2011)

Neece said:
But we already do that.

SZ8SQEr.png
Click to expand...
I've seen this chart before. What's interesting to me is, of all those categories, it seems like agnostic theist is the unicorn
 
Phu said:
What? Philosophies can spread like wildfire.
Click to expand...

True, but not in the same way as religion I don't think. Philosophy can speak to people and influence their lifestyle, but religion was able to create established institutions worldwide that spread a consistent message, was highly influential, and also wieldable by powerful people (for good or bad) in a way that philosophy cannot be used. To the average person, what message do you think would carry more authority: God's will or Socrate's will? Philosophies can spread just as fast as they can diminish, but religion, depending on where and who it reaches, can last for centuries. Even now philosophies can be weak in this way, so imagine how they were two thousand years ago, when the only platform it could have was a book or a public speaker.

All I'm saying is that religion can promote a more consistent message over a longer period of time than philosophy. Sometimes long standing philosophies transform into religions and vice versa, but nonetheless throughout our history so far, religion has been the best method of transferring moral thought.
 
Man; a forward/modernized approach to organized religion and socialized healthcare. I've spent ample time working, living, hiking, skiing, climbing in BC. My biggest regret of my life is not being Canadian.
 
jstripes said:
"You don't like Star Wars? YOU'RE NO SON OF MINE! GET OUT!"
Click to expand...
Yeah you were just joking with this, but some people do actually disown their family if they reject or lose faith. People don't disown their family for not picking up preferred hobby. So it's not quite the same as wanting your kid to become a hockey player.
 
farmerboy said:
Thankyou for this. An entirely reasonable arguement that sees it for what it is. As a man of faith, I have found this thread and its disdain for religion bothersome, which I don't entirely blame, as the organised religions and their hierachy aren't exactly doing a great job lately.

All I'll say though is this. Your beliefs and spirituality are only ever truly owned by you. For you only. Science and its gifts are owned by the few. And they too have twisted it and monetized it for their own gain to the detriment of us all. Weapons of war, the destruction of the planet through climate change, consumerist culture; all and more brought about directly and indirectly by science.

So before you look down your noses at us religious folk, consider what harm your science does as well, and how it too has been twisted for profit and gain.
Click to expand...


This was a valiant attempt to place Science and Religion on the same playing field. You seem to posit that Science is a belief; Which I take issue with but I will concede the point. Richard Feynman put it quite simply - "Religion is a culture of faith. Science is a culture of doubt." Once we stop doubting, we have failed as a species. Before science, religion was the first and worst collective attempt to explain the unknown. Now it's a relic of the past; an extra limb that is now completely paralyzed but we refuse to amputate it because it makes us feel better about the unknown and death. (God of Gaps)

Are you saying that life was better before science? Before germ theory? Before we eradicated diseases such as Polio? Before we understood how the world worked or before space exploration? Back when life expectancy was halved? You will have a hard time convincing many that science has done more harm than good.
 
black_13 said:
My issue is people always seem to focus on the negative aspects of religion. What about all the good it does? I know in many religions donations to charity are a huge positive aspect.

And people who go through tough times need something to give them hope. It's no coincidence that people get more religious as they get older and closer to death. Religion gives alot of people peace and hope that there is more to this life. I'm not even that religious but I clearly these aspects.

But of course with media always focusing on the negatives then it's no wonder more and more are thinking of it as a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Religions have been doing a wonderful job of painting themselves in a bad light for centuries. "The media" isn't really a driving factor.

If I had to guess, I'd say the rise of technology and more and more people moving out of rural areas has led to a decrease in religiosity. Archaic religions just don't fit the lifestyle many people live today.
 
Koren said:
I disagree with your definitions, but I'll grant you that it depends to who you ask.

My dictionnaries/philosophical books rather use the narrower definition that atheism is the belief that there's no gods.

The Oxford dictionnary of philosophy accepts both:


But Rowe says
Click to expand...
Atheism does include the subset that reject the believe of god, and like oxford dictionary suggest, it also includes (and in strict definition) people who simply have a lack of believe. You can't lump all atheists in the former group and drag the another definition of atheism to define agnosticism.
 
hurricanes said:
Atheism does include the subset that reject the believe of god, and like oxford dictionary suggest, it also includes (and in strict definition) people who simply have a lack of believe. You can't lump all atheists in the former group and drag the another definition of atheism to define agnosticism.
Click to expand...

This is why I would rather do away with the word altogether; it's not needed. I refuse to call myself an atheist because of the baggage and negative connotation it holds. I'm simply a non-believer.

I remember hearing someone once say that he didn't believe in Astrology, so do I need a special name for myself. Well the answer is no, you don't need a name for someone who doesn't believe celestial bodies influence human affairs. It's the same thing.
 
FiggyCal said:
Do Christians not own hospitals, nursing homes, hospices, and soup kitchens where you guys are?
Click to expand...

Does operating and running one requir e veing a Christian?

Churches are tax free and built on Government grants. You could do away with the while religious aspect of these places and use the funds to do the same thing without then. You'd actually have more money to do better things also because you wouldnt also be funding numerous other religious based programs that do nothing for anyone outside of those that follow.
 
SyenceLabb said:
This was a valiant attempt to place Science and Religion on the same playing field. You seem to posit that Science is a belief; Which I take issue with but I will concede the point. Richard Feynman put it quite simply - "Religion is a culture of faith. Science is a culture of doubt." Once we stop doubting, we have failed as a species. Before science, religion was the first and worst collective attempt to explain the unknown. Now it's a relic of the past; an extra limb that is now completely paralyzed but we refuse to amputate it because it makes us feel better about the unknown and death. (God of Gaps)

Are you saying that life was better before science? Before germ theory? Before we eradicated diseases such as Polio? Before we understood how the world worked or before space exploration? Back when life expectancy was halved? You will have a hard time convincing many that science has done more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Considering I'm posting this on my phone whilst sitting on the couch, I'll vote that life is better with science ;-)

On your other points, faith is regularly wracked by doubt. My faith especially. I have a curious mind, and I doubt a lot of things. Including things in science. I subscribe to science youtube channels because I find them utterly fascinating. I'm in awe of how little we understand and in how little we have seen of this universe. I want to know more, but even so, I still find room for God. To me, he isn't God of Gaps but the one true constant. I haven't a clue who or what he is, or what his intentions are or even if he rationalizes the way we do.

Anyway I'm rambling. Science to me is our relationship with the physical world and religion our relationship with each other. Both left unchecked they can be twisted out of shape into something abhorrent. But when both shine and are used to forward the human race, when they both have a little influence on each other, then the results can be truly astonishing and for the true betterment of all mankind.

They are both our greatest tool and greatest weapon. Its up to us how we use them.
 
mcarlie said:
The size of all major religions are growing steadily and are expected to increase in growth rate. Certain western countries are becoming more secular.
Click to expand...

Only because population growth is strong in less developped countries. It's not because religions are more popular.
 
darkinstinct said:
Church and/or religion funded charities save millions of children each year from dying of famine. The number of people killed in the name of religion each year is lower. So I'd say Canadians are wrong.
Click to expand...
Do you know how much money money the federal government of Canada spends on international aid? How about USAID, or the UK's DFID, the Nordic countries are recognized as leaders in international aid, plus Germany, France, and many other European countries have enormous international aid budgets. And then there is all the UN organizations, OECD, World Bank, IMF - all doing their thing. And Quebec has their own international aid budget. All these organizations/nations publish exact numbers, transparency is the rule. I imagine many, many wealthy countries all have international aid programs - many more than I have mentioned. Canada is not alone in this and is certainly not even one of the biggest donors.

In 2015 Canada spent $5.8 billion on foreign aid. How much did the various religions in Canada spend on international aid? Are you really suggesting organized religions spend more? Show me the proof. Show me the money!
 
Lister said:
Atheism is the default position to have. You need evidence to posit a god, much less the yahweh character of the bible.
Click to expand...

It's every human's default position when they're born. All babies are atheist, given that they're incapable of choosing to believe in gods since it takes years before they can even start to understand the concept.
 
~ Zyzomys ~ said:
Do you know how much money money the federal government of Canada spends on international aid? How about USAID, or the UK's DFID, the Nordic countries are recognized as leaders in international aid, plus Germany, France, and many other European countries have enormous international aid budgets. And then there is all the UN organizations, OECD, World Bank, IMF - all doing their thing. And Quebec has their own international aid budget. All these organizations/nations publish exact numbers, transparency is the rule. I imagine many, many wealthy countries all have international aid programs - many more than I have mentioned. Canada is not alone in this and is certainly not even one of the biggest donors.

In 2015 Canada spent $5.8 billion on foreign aid. How much did the various religions in Canada spend on international aid? Are you really suggesting organized religions spend more? Show me the proof. Show me the money!
Click to expand...

Here it is for the US. greater 2007 but gives a good idea
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Progressives who keep coddling religions full of anti-progressive beliefs will forever baffle me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's idiotic. Given the chance, religion takes away your mental freedom.
Religion claims to posses the ultimate truth; that doesn't leave room for anything else.
 
black_13 said:
My issue is people always seem to focus on the negative aspects of religion. What about all the good it does? I know in many religions donations to charity are a huge positive aspect.

And people who go through tough times need something to give them hope. It's no coincidence that people get more religious as they get older and closer to death. Religion gives alot of people peace and hope that there is more to this life. I'm not even that religious but I clearly these aspects.

But of course with media always focusing on the negatives then it's no wonder more and more are thinking of it as a bad thing.
Click to expand...

I understand religion can put one at ease, but say you have an incurable disease that your doctor have found. Should the doctor lie and say they have found nothing to put you at ease?

I have no doubt religion have done good. I'd argue it's done more bad and in the end, I don't think it's necessary. You speak only in the name of your own actions.
 
I'm 31-years-old, grew up in the GTA and spent many years in BC. I don't know a single person born in this country, that is around my age, that is in any way religious. Not a single one. I have a few immigrant friends (or children of immigrants) who most certainly are, but even they are few and far between.

Religion to this generation is viewed often with contempt, disdain, or ambivalence. We're accepting of the beliefs of others, but I don't know anyone born in this country (other than the aforementioned first-gen kids) that considers themselves religious. People are tired of it.
 
I think less of religious folks. I've not yet met one who was genuinely kind. And they try to indoctrinate their children so they can have less choices in their life.
 
Switch Back 9 said:
I'm 31-years-old, grew up in the GTA and spent many years in BC. I don't know a single person born in this country, that is around my age, that is in any way religious. Not a single one. I have a few immigrant friends (or children of immigrants) who most certainly are, but even they are few and far between.

Religion to this generation is viewed often with contempt, disdain, or ambivalence. We're accepting of the beliefs of others, but I don't know anyone born in this country that considers themselves religious. People are tired of it.
Click to expand...
Which is why I don't understand anglo liberals with their acceptance of openly religious people in their ranks. To francophones, religion is regressive.
 
FINALLY a country fucking understands.

Individuals can believe whatever they wish but let's not fool ourselves- religious societies invite bigotry.
 
Human beings don't have the capability to get the good parts of religion to work consistently. We are too greedy/flawed.

But you also don't need religion for good.
 
Seriously how hard is it to move to Canada? It can't be that hard right? What if I was offered a job there or something?
 
phil-x said:
Which is why I don't understand anglo liberals with their acceptance of openly religious people in their ranks. To francophones, religion is regressive.
Click to expand...

When it comes to making friends? People usually don't talk about religion when they barely know someone, it's not a topic that comes up.
 
Sapiens said:
I wonder how many of these respondants thought of OTHER PEOPLES religion as harmful and not their own...
Click to expand...

According to the same poll, only 11% of people attend a religious service at least once a week, and 40% of people are atheist+agnostic and "spiritual but not religious", so we're not talking about a very religious country.
 
FiggyCal said:
Do Christians not own hospitals, nursing homes, hospices, and soup kitchens where you guys are?
Click to expand...

the names of the hospitals remain, but Provincial governments have taken over the management of said hospitals while still respecting historic heritage of the hospital.

in Quebec prior to the Quiet Revolution (secularization), Anglo-Protestants went to Protestant Hospital, Franco-Catholics went to Catholic Hospitals, Jewish minorities founded their own Hospital.

then the Province became secular and seperated the Church from State. The old names of the Hospitals remain, but hospitals are all Government run, secular and welcome to everyone
 
What he did find surprising was that Quebec, once considered to be Canada’s most religious province, is now the most secular.

Compared to the rest of Canada, Quebecers are significantly more likely than residents of other provinces to feel religion does more harm than good (62 per cent). They’re also more inclined (18 per cent) to lose respect for people when they find out they are religious.
Click to expand...

What a strange quote. I don't know a single Canadian that would be surprised that Quebec is the most secular province and has the worst view of religion.
 
Zeeman said:
What a strange quote. I don't know a single Canadian that would be surprised that Quebec is the most secular province and has the worst view of religion.
Click to expand...
I haven't lived in Quebec since I was really young but it doesn't seem that strange to me. The 2011 Census had Western provinces as less religious than Quebec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Canada#Irreligion_by_province

I know a lot of Catholic Quebecers aren't very practicing but they're still identifying with a religion.
 
Its a bummer people who see their religion as a way to push themselves to help others and a live a good life are so outnumbered by no it all douche bags who use it to talk down to others justify hatred in the name of their god.
 
NeoZeedeater said:
I haven't lived in Quebec since I was really young but it doesn't seem that strange to me. The 2011 Census had Western provinces as less religious than Quebec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Canada#Irreligion_by_province

I know a lot of Catholic Quebecers aren't very practicing but they're still identifying with a religion.
Click to expand...
Secular Catholicism is just for customs, baptism, weddings and funerals. But 90% of
"Catholics" with quotation marks don't care about religion. It's just a cultral custom thing people do when they get married or when they pass away
 
TimeEffect said:
What's really hilarious is that Catholic school students are some of the most anti-religious peeps there are.

Hard not to despise religion when so many nut jobs believe in interpretations that harm the world. You can only hear "but it's not a true interpretation!" so much until you realize that a lot of the text itself is horrible and backwards.
Click to expand...

From my experience with Catholic elementary school growing up in Ontario (I went public for high school since I didn't bother going through Confirmation)... they really aren't that preach about anything. Like yeah there was religion class and we'd go to the church next door for mass during special events / communion or whatever, and morning prayers before the national anthem... but

My dad teaches at a Catholic elementary school in Mississauga and he's not even religious at all really. I was shocked one time he told me that he told his students the bible isn't actually real, just stories to spread the teachings.

jstripes said:
The problem is still that atheism is a catch-all term that groups people like me in with internet neckbeards, and people like my dad, who staunchly deny the existence of god. Even if they are a small minority, they're the loudest of the group.
Click to expand...

So you wanna group all the bad ones under "atheist" so you can separate yourself under "agnostic"? Fuck off. Sincerely.
 
GuessMyUserName said:
So you wanna group all the bad ones under "atheist" so you can separate yourself under "agnostic"? Fuck off. Sincerely.
Click to expand...

Does anyone relaly need to even bother defending "bad atheists" from idiotic religious forum posters anyway?

Let's see, these horrible, horrible modern atheists are.... "neckbeards", and if asked, they like to proclaim how god doesn't exist.

Oh,, noes! Whatever will we do!!!

In the meantime, the worst theists today, are busy blowign up people, tearing down science and humanism, spreading inorance and supersition, descriminating against non-blievers, the other belivers accross the way, and the believers that believe differently, nevermind anyone else who is different in some way to them, and othewise placing their bronze age sheepherder mythology above the needs of their fellow human being.

When that equation is a LITTLE bit less lopsided, THEN and only then will these idiots have something to bash atheists on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

More hype than you expected.
34
1K
MaestroMike replied
Does anyone know of a good computer chair that isnt a wheeled type?
4
359
EverydayBeast replied
Where does your nickname come from?
Community  2 3
105
2K
John Bilbo replied
Lilly Allen makes more on OF than Spotify
2
70
4K
Soltype replied
Foldable iPhone to Cost ~$1,000 More Than Today's Pro Max - (Probably one gazillion with tariffs)
37
1K
Great Auk replied
Top Bottom